swag, does it matter??

So I mentioned at the Clipper/Jazz game how the Clips during warmups were doing highlight dunks. The crowd was "oohing and aahing" putting all the attention on them. Jazz players were looking over to see the show. Pretty interesting. They took all the attention from jumpstreet to show they weren't afraid of our undefeated home record.

The Jazz lead most of the game but you knew what was coming ...cp3 and a team built for comebacks and a tittle run in the fourth.

The Jazz may not have a contender but they can contend with them...which gets to my point: Swag.
I think it matters. I'd like to see Evans, Favors, and Burks do highlight dunks warming up. I'd like to see the chest bump with a teammate after a great play.
It breeds confidence. I'd like to see players huddle together before tipoff and at the start of the second half and yell defense. It breeds accountability. I'd like to see a finger-wave by Favors after a block.. or a not "in my house" comment.

Seriously, where's the swag? Deron has it. Guys like Gary Payton had it or Barkley that weren't outstanding athletes. They just wanted to win more than the next guy.

Quiet confidence of a Stockton is nice and all but there HAS to be outspoken and theatrical leadership. Who's in another players face telling him to step-up his game? Only a player that gives 100% can be that player to be respected by his teammates. What player dives on the floor now? Carroll? Um, sure, he wants minutes and a payday.

I'm not asking to risk injury for the team, just effort.

It SHOULD be a college atmosphere out there. Ray Lewis for the Ravens pumps his team up better than anyone. Where's our Lewis? Where's our leader that freaks-out when we lose? That player that comes into a game saying "I won't be out-played."

Corbin can chant and holler and build-up his team all he wants but it comes down to pride on the floor. This team as currently constructed has the ability to win 48+ games IMO. Some one, anyone, needs to be a vocal leader. Is it Mo, Millsap, Jefferson? I dunno. I see Millsap as a quiet leader.

It's just frustrating. These players have limited time in their careers and tons of bank to fall-back on. Where's the "leave it on the floor" mentality. What player do you believe in that'll leave it on the floor? I know for Magnus it's Sap... it is for me as well, I just don't believe in his skillset and yes, size to makeup for his hustle. Hayward is almost there in all facets. Big Al on offense - but too slow on defense ..

We really REALLY need Favors on defense or this team is mediocre, but just as much they need unfeigned swagger.

Have the players listen to a mandatory 5 min speech about excellenc before every game or something.
Rant over.

Agree with you here. There's just an attitude that winners have that the Jazz clearly don't consistently show.

I have seen a lot of isolated examples of "swag" this season, from Hayward sticking one in Garnetts eye after Garnett had taunted him to Big Al saying "we always new we were going to win this game" after the Jazz came back and beat the Nuggets, but it doesn't seem like they as individuals and a team have it on any consistent basis.

aliveandkickin wrote:

So I mentioned at the Clipper/Jazz game how the Clips during warmups were doing highlight dunks. The crowd was "oohing and aahing" putting all the attention on them. Jazz players were looking over to see the show. Pretty interesting. They took all the attention from jumpstreet to show they weren't afraid of our undefeated home record.

The Jazz lead most of the game but you knew what was coming ...cp3 and a team built for comebacks and a tittle run in the fourth.

The Jazz may not have a contender but they can contend with them...which gets to my point: Swag.
I think it matters. I'd like to see Evans, Favors, and Burks do highlight dunks warming up. I'd like to see the chest bump with a teammate after a great play.
It breeds confidence. I'd like to see players huddle together before tipoff and at the start of the second half and yell defense. It breeds accountability. I'd like to see a finger-wave by Favors after a block.. or a not "in my house" comment.

Seriously, where's the swag? Deron has it. Guys like Gary Payton had it or Barkley that weren't outstanding athletes. They just wanted to win more than the next guy.

Quiet confidence of a Stockton is nice and all but there HAS to be outspoken and theatrical leadership. Who's in another players face telling him to step-up his game? Only a player that gives 100% can be that player to be respected by his teammates. What player dives on the floor now? Carroll? Um, sure, he wants minutes and a payday.

I'm not asking to risk injury for the team, just effort.

It SHOULD be a college atmosphere out there. Ray Lewis for the Ravens pumps his team up better than anyone. Where's our Lewis? Where's our leader that freaks-out when we lose? That player that comes into a game saying "I won't be out-played."

Corbin can chant and holler and build-up his team all he wants but it comes down to pride on the floor. This team as currently constructed has the ability to win 48+ games IMO. Some one, anyone, needs to be a vocal leader. Is it Mo, Millsap, Jefferson? I dunno. I see Millsap as a quiet leader.

It's just frustrating. These players have limited time in their careers and tons of bank to fall-back on. Where's the "leave it on the floor" mentality. What player do you believe in that'll leave it on the floor? I know for Magnus it's Sap... it is for me as well, I just don't believe in his skillset and yes, size to makeup for his hustle. Hayward is almost there in all facets. Big Al on offense - but too slow on defense ..

We really REALLY need Favors on defense or this team is mediocre, but just as much they need unfeigned swagger.

Have the players listen to a mandatory 5 min speech about excellenc before every game or something.
Rant over.

How about Spurs? Do the have it (chest bumping etc.) more or less than "next" fellas?

vryadli wrote:

aliveandkickin wrote:

So I mentioned at the Clipper/Jazz game how the Clips during warmups were doing highlight dunks. The crowd was "oohing and aahing" putting all the attention on them. Jazz players were looking over to see the show. Pretty interesting. They took all the attention from jumpstreet to show they weren't afraid of our undefeated home record.

The Jazz lead most of the game but you knew what was coming ...cp3 and a team built for comebacks and a tittle run in the fourth.

The Jazz may not have a contender but they can contend with them...which gets to my point: Swag.
I think it matters. I'd like to see Evans, Favors, and Burks do highlight dunks warming up. I'd like to see the chest bump with a teammate after a great play.
It breeds confidence. I'd like to see players huddle together before tipoff and at the start of the second half and yell defense. It breeds accountability. I'd like to see a finger-wave by Favors after a block.. or a not "in my house" comment.

Seriously, where's the swag? Deron has it. Guys like Gary Payton had it or Barkley that weren't outstanding athletes. They just wanted to win more than the next guy.

Quiet confidence of a Stockton is nice and all but there HAS to be outspoken and theatrical leadership. Who's in another players face telling him to step-up his game? Only a player that gives 100% can be that player to be respected by his teammates. What player dives on the floor now? Carroll? Um, sure, he wants minutes and a payday.

I'm not asking to risk injury for the team, just effort.

It SHOULD be a college atmosphere out there. Ray Lewis for the Ravens pumps his team up better than anyone. Where's our Lewis? Where's our leader that freaks-out when we lose? That player that comes into a game saying "I won't be out-played."

Corbin can chant and holler and build-up his team all he wants but it comes down to pride on the floor. This team as currently constructed has the ability to win 48+ games IMO. Some one, anyone, needs to be a vocal leader. Is it Mo, Millsap, Jefferson? I dunno. I see Millsap as a quiet leader.

It's just frustrating. These players have limited time in their careers and tons of bank to fall-back on. Where's the "leave it on the floor" mentality. What player do you believe in that'll leave it on the floor? I know for Magnus it's Sap... it is for me as well, I just don't believe in his skillset and yes, size to makeup for his hustle. Hayward is almost there in all facets. Big Al on offense - but too slow on defense ..

We really REALLY need Favors on defense or this team is mediocre, but just as much they need unfeigned swagger.

Have the players listen to a mandatory 5 min speech about excellenc before every game or something.
Rant over.

How about Spurs? Do the have it (chest bumping etc.) more or less than "next" fellas?

The Spurs are an entirely different animal. They have the best coach in the NBA and a HOFer that is very quiet and reserved. The rest of the team takes those guys personality's on as there own on the court.

You need to have confidence and a little bit of cockiness about you. If you can intimidate the other team team with aggression and confidence, it makes a huge difference.

That's why I like Burks. He's got it. Mo and Randy got it. You won't make the cut based only in blue collar work and leaving it all on the floor.

outerspacefan wrote:

That's why I like Burks. He's got it. Mo and Randy got it. You won't make the cut based only in blue collar work and leaving it all on the floor.

Totally agree. I see it in those guys as well. In fact, I like them more than I lead-on. It's such a delicate balance getting the right guys on the floor and having the young guys blossom at the same time. I see this team as so close to being a winning road team but need someone other than Watson or Tinsley that are a triple-threat with penetration and shooting, not just passing.
Imagine if we got Lillard in the last draft to backup Mo. The little extra he brings could make the difference in close games this yr- not to mention the future.

That said, the beauty of basketball this team is missing is making every possession count. Last night Mo picks up his dribble too early a few times in the fourth and guys are scrambling to give him an outlet pass... And the possession sucks with a bad shot. Avoiding such plays were the forties of Stockton, Nash, cp3, Deron, Kidd, and points that have a command of the offense.
I think Mo is serviceable but needs to keep studying film on making good decisios- especially in the fourth. I've noticed his shots per game have decreased which is a good thing. He may find a better balance as the season progresses.... and if he does he deserves to be more vocal.

TheMagnus wrote:

Agree with you here. There's just an attitude that winners have that the Jazz clearly don't consistently show.

I have seen a lot of isolated examples of "swag" this season, from Hayward sticking one in Garnetts eye after Garnett had taunted him to Big Al saying "we always new we were going to win this game" after the Jazz came back and beat the Nuggets, but it doesn't seem like they as individuals and a team have it on any consistent basis.

yup, fun to disagree at times but I'm with u here. It may seem silly but I think team huddles going over strategy and upping the enthusiasm would make a difference - especially on the road. Make it a regular thing at home as well.

outerspacefan wrote:

That's why I like Burks. He's got it. Mo and Randy got it. You won't make the cut based only in blue collar work and leaving it all on the floor.

And that is exqactly why they are inconsistent.

Same effrots can be put on the court in two (2) opposite ways. You can't be crazy-bullish and clever-focused - only one or the other at a time. And it is mu-uch easier to go from second to first than in opposite direction.

Focus, discipline, no-showmanlines - that was how Utah was overachieved in Sloan times. And all you describe very exactly how GSW underachieved ALMOST all the time. Looks like changed wuite a bit... less "swag" more focus.

Hell yeah it matters. Jazz need to trade this no swag country boy Jefferson and that Warriors pick for young hood DMC. That boy gets it and he hungry too. Jefferson just hungry for some more of that down home cooking to fill his fat ass up with.

Fundamentals matter. Not jackpotting around and dunking basketballs. You didn't see Stockton dunking balls with "swagger" did you? You didn't see him flapping his gumbs with confidence did you? NO! He shut up and put up not like these punks like Kevin Garnett fake tough guy you wish our Jazz players would imitate.

Professo_Sloan wrote:

Fundamentals matter. Not jackpotting around and dunking basketballs. You didn't see Stockton dunking balls with "swagger" did you? You didn't see him flapping his gumbs with confidence did you? NO! He shut up and put up not like these punks like Kevin Garnett fake tough guy you wish our Jazz players would imitate.

Yeah I don't think anyone wishes we had players like KG. There aren't any Stocktons around anymore and the truth is there never were many players like that in the first place. Malone was. Malone was a pretty arrogant, cocky bastard, but it worked for him and it fired up the team.

Romoholic wrote:

Yeah I don't think anyone wishes we had players like KG. There aren't any Stocktons around anymore and the truth is there never were many players like that in the first place. Malone was. Malone was a pretty arrogant, cocky bastard, but it worked for him and it fired up the team.

It did take a Hall of Famer to keep that old boy in check. A real firecracker that one was. But, BUT, Malone worked his rear end off every day of his life and earned the right to be the cock of the walk. Back in my day we would never dream of mentioning Karl Malone in the same conversation as the fellers named in the first article.

Professo_Sloan wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

Yeah I don't think anyone wishes we had players like KG. There aren't any Stocktons around anymore and the truth is there never were many players like that in the first place. Malone was. Malone was a pretty arrogant, cocky bastard, but it worked for him and it fired up the team.

It did take a Hall of Famer to keep that old boy in check. A real firecracker that one was. But, BUT, Malone worked his rear end off every day of his life and earned the right to be the cock of the walk. Back in my day we would never dream of mentioning Karl Malone in the same conversation as the fellers named in the first article.

Fine don't compare him to current players, Compare him to guys like Barkley and Jordan gary payton, guys that had talent, but also had the cockiness and attitude to put them on a higher level than other guys.

Romoholic wrote:

Fine don't compare him to current players, Compare him to guys like Barkley and Jordan guys that had talent, but also had the cockiness and attitude to put them on a higher level than other guys.

No no no sir tisk tisk. You don't put the cart before the horse and you don't put the ego before the results. Every one of these draft picks comes into camp thinking their the cock of the walk. That attitude will not due.


You have likely not noticed my deletion of gary payton from your quotation. This foul excuse of a man never belonged in big boy pants. All talk no game no rings no heart when it the legacy of Mr. Malone was placed on the line. He Quit on Malone!

We're seeing "swag" a little more. Wins against the Lakers and Spurs baby. After the Spurs game Mo said (paraphrasing) "We're learning what our ceiling is." Millsap "We think we can shock the world!"

The last two games I've seen tons of energy and some good decisions on the floor. Ex--- Kanter gets an offensive rebound, could have put up a fifteen footer but looks for a guard to restart the offense. Jefferson (yes Jefferson) get's a steal aound the three point line and takes it by himself with Duncan on his heels for a dunk. Mo hits the game-winner after missing the first three with 8 seconds left..... In the huddle before the game-winner Corbin said he'll make this one.... Swag. BTW, Mo still is shooting less and involving teammates more often. I saw him keep his dribble after driving and eventually finding a teammate for a good shot more often lately. Hayward blocks Anderson from behind on a dunk attempt. Sap is playing like a stud going one-on-one around fifteen feet when there isn't an outlet... not just looking to shoot a fade-away.

How many ppl look at fast-break points in a box-score? To me it tells the story who'll win a game as much as points in the paint. Next time you look at scores, look at fast-break points before seeing who won and predict who won the game. Fast-break points show swag baby. They show how much you attack, if you have enough skilled players (which the Jazz do) to push the ball, if the hustle is there after a long defensive rebound or steal. I love when this team takes off after a good defensive effort for a fast-break or mini-break.... and they should considering their youth.

Still comfy with a 48 win prediction this yr-- even with some tough games coming up.

If you truly have swag you don't show it. The Showtime Lakers never bothered trying to psych anybody or walk around like they were badassed, they played the first quarter and by then, you knew what swag was. Thats the difference in todays players and the real players, if ESPN has to force it down your throats, you never had it. Blake Griffin will someday be great, but now all the Kia ad's and slams won't make him more than an up and comer. Melo will never be any more than Derrick Coleman or Penny Hardaway. D Will mistook a chip on his shoulder for it, he could be a great one but that will be determined by his play on the floor and not some quote to a media guy.
Also, you don't get it overnight, Jordan had some but had to wait 7 years to get a full dose of it.

You guysare pathetic if you say you don't want a player like KG just because you don't like him. KG even at 36 is better than anyone on the jazz. He does so much more for the celtics than any 2 players do forthe jazz. In the 615 minutes KG has played this season they outscore their opponent by 9 points per 100 posessions. In the 420 minutes he's been off they have been outscored by 11. The guy is a better defender than anyone we have by far, he hustles more than anyone but DC. He is shooting just over 54% which is quite a few ticks above anyone that qualifies on the team. And he is the best pick and roll big man defender in the league, hands down, unlike Jefferson which is close to being the worst hands down. Yeah keep hating on KG, he is better than any jazz player that has ever lived who is not named Stockton or Malone, and I believe he would have posted better numbers than Malone had he played with stockton, while still being a better defender than any jazz player to ever live. KG is one of a kind, and yes he is cocky, but he is rightfully cocky because he is that good and he is a trash talker, but is the best at talking that trash. And his trash talking helps the celtics win a lot of games by getting inside the heads of weak minded players lime Big Al. So how can the way KG plays the game be a bad thing when it helps his team win games. And how could you not want to get a one of a kind player like KG. He has been the Best Big Man of his tenure hands down. most will say duncan is better, but he is not. Duncan has been surrounded with a great team and an even better coach for his tenure and KG had to deal with the likes of the timberwolves management for most of his tenure, with no talent by his side in the t wolves days. So yeah keep hatin on KG when a player like him would be nothing but good for the jazz

aliveandkickin wrote:

We're seeing "swag" a little more. Wins against the Lakers and Spurs baby. After the Spurs game Mo said (paraphrasing) "We're learning what our ceiling is." Millsap "We think we can shock the world!"

The last two games I've seen tons of energy and some good decisions on the floor. Ex--- Kanter gets an offensive rebound, could have put up a fifteen footer but looks for a guard to restart the offense. Jefferson (yes Jefferson) get's a steal aound the three point line and takes it by himself with Duncan on his heels for a dunk. Mo hits the game-winner after missing the first three with 8 seconds left..... In the huddle before the game-winner Corbin said he'll make this one.... Swag. BTW, Mo still is shooting less and involving teammates more often. I saw him keep his dribble after driving and eventually finding a teammate for a good shot more often lately. Hayward blocks Anderson from behind on a dunk attempt. Sap is playing like a stud going one-on-one around fifteen feet when there isn't an outlet... not just looking to shoot a fade-away.

How many ppl look at fast-break points in a box-score? To me it tells the story who'll win a game as much as points in the paint. Next time you look at scores, look at fast-break points before seeing who won and predict who won the game. Fast-break points show swag baby. They show how much you attack, if you have enough skilled players (which the Jazz do) to push the ball, if the hustle is there after a long defensive rebound or steal. I love when this team takes off after a good defensive effort for a fast-break or mini-break.... and they should considering their youth.

Still comfy with a 48 win prediction this yr-- even with some tough games coming up.

Excellent points! And, I think it's important for the Jazz' future. The Jazz have a history of being a fundamentally sound team (like San Antonio). The Stockton and Malone Jazz team were one of the best fundamentally sound teams in the history of the NBA. But, the swag combo of Jordan and the crazy Dennis Rodman put the Jazz in the position of the Washington Generals against the Harlem Globetrotters. No one wants the Globetrotters to lose!

Still, San Antonio has won a few championships. Why can't the Jazz? With our roster, I don't think we can do it-- unless we put Al Jefferson into the PF position (like San Antonio uses Duncan,. or Memphis uses Zach Randolph, or the Lakers use Pao Gasol). Kanter isn't as good as Marc Gasol or Dwight Howard, but that is what we need. I
f we could bring Kanter up to speed defensively, he might be able to fill the role of Gasol or Howard.

The Jazz are loaded with backup caliber PFs. Maybe we should go over the top! Put Big Al against the league's other PFs and we have a winning team! (of course, to do this we would need greater depth at the Center position).