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 Best free agents of 2013

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zero24gravity
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Sun May 19, 2013 2:43 pm

Drive"N"Kick wrote:
Okay dong, I'm going to tell you why signing Monta Ellis would be possibly the worst move the jazz could make. 1. He is the same thing as Big Al, but he shoots a much much worse percentage, he had a couple great years of shooting, but has been a solid 40-42 percent forthe last few years, which is terrible for your go to scorer.
2. He play worse D than Big Al, it is just at a less key position. He gambles every single chance he gets, that is why his steals numbers are alway good. He a worse facilitator than tyreke, shoots a worse percentage, takes shots that make you scratch your head consistently, he gets outmatched by most SGs in the league.
3. The guy is not a good leader and I have no idea where you came up with that one. He has played on good teams and never lead them anywhere. The warriors got better wen he left and started playing with more passion, hustle, and D. There is a reason a disfunctional franchise like golden state got rid of him, so why would our smart, penny pinching, transitioning to a defensive team playing organization even think about signing a god awful player like Ellis
The reason I want Tyreke Evans is because he is the only player on the FA market that can and will consistently penetrate the defense, while playing good defense himself, while having the potential to be a superstar in this league.
I don't think the jazz should play anyone that doesn't do their fair part on defense, if you play great team defense and have someone who can penetrate the opposing teams defense, then the offense will come from defense, you will win games and go to the playoffs, simple as that. Because defense is consistent, offense isn't, that's why we sucked last year, we had to many people that play offense without playing D and guess what, when those guys weren't hitting shots, we lost games, because the other team was always hitting shots, because those guys played consistently bad D and inconsistent offense, and I don't know why some of he people on here keep mentioning getting guysthat follow this formula of bad D and inconsistent O.
This is all just speculation and opinion on my part, except for the evaluation of Monta Ellis, that guy is just a cancer.

Hey, get outta my head. It's as if I wrote this!
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Mon May 20, 2013 12:20 pm

Well the last time I looked Tyreke Evans as a player has not done anything what-so-ever in leading the Kings to anything of importance, in fact his team at time's have been very very dissatisfied with his play more so than not I would have to say. As far as Evens being a better facilitator that is simply not true all you have to do is look at the assists numbers to see that. As far as FG % goes you have to remember they play on two different team's who's offensive scheme are totally opposite.

In the system that Ellis play's it is more of a guard oriented offense as to where the Kings look to the big's ( DeMarcus Cousins ) in theirs, When I talk about Ellis being a leader it is because I think he has shown that he can play the PG position and get the other player's involved. With his passing ability, long range shot and who can also drive and kick ( witch he does all the time in the Bucks offense ) just as good as Evens can IMO, I think he has all of the skills that is needed to play a back-up PG when needed just like you think Evens can along with being a pretty good SG back-up or starting.

If you don't like Ellis that's fine with me it is just an my opinion after all, I myself like Evens as a player but I just don't see him fitting in as a Jazz guy because of them already having Hayward on the team, they are just about the same kind of player as each other who play their best at the SG position and that is why I lean toward picking up a guy that can really play both spot's at a high level.

I have heard NBA guy's talking about Ellis as a free agent this summer they are saying that he is going to have to be open to playing a back up roll at this stage of his career along with a pay cut, they are saying that his agent is saying that he know's this and is open to it he just want's to play for a winning team that is why he declined his player option. This is why I was thinking the Jazz should take a chance on him if they are going to take a chance on a long shot I think a guy that is willing to take on a different role to be part of a winning team who has big time ability would be worth looking at.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Tue May 21, 2013 9:10 am

First off tyreke played his best ball at pg, and quite frankly had the best rookie season of anyone playing in the league today besides Tim Duncan. You can argue that Lebrons was just as good, but not better.
Secondly Monte Ellis has had the opportunity to play the same role every year he has been in the league. Tyreke's role and position gave changed every year, which slows development and productivity for a player. I have not seen any sort of leadership come from him, and I did not say tyreke is a great leader, you did of Monte. It is very hard to find a leader on a kings team, the organization is the leader, and a very very poor one at that. Besides, with guys like Cousins how in the world is someone supposed to lead those nutcases.
The mere fact that Ellis doesn't play a lick of D is why I don't want him, aren't yousick of watching people blow by us for easy layups or getting wide open shots.
The reason I want Tyreke is because he is somewhat similar to Gordon. Although not very similar. But if you have two good facilitators that can share that responsibility, who are also nightmare mismatches for other teams, then that's great. And I don't want Tyreke nearly as much if we do not start him at PG. I think if we start him at pg and leave him there, he will live up to his superstar potential and make us a much better team. Plus I think he is more likely to listen to coaches to play the system to the best of his ability. I think any team and any system Ellis goes to, he will still be a High Volume shooter, who often shoots a bad %
do I think Tyreke is the best fit for the Jazz? No. Do I think he is the best gamble for a superstar for what we could aquire this offseason? Yes, yes I do. Because there are only two routes that the jazz can take to become contenders, get at least two superstars, with a decent team around them. Or stockpile defenders until you are a top 3 defensive team, even then you need a boarderline superstar. Ala Paul George, which we should have on this team and regret not picking him every time I watch the pacers play
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Tue May 21, 2013 9:46 am

Tyreke as the Jazz starting PG all I am going to say to that is NO THANK YOU and leave it at that
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Wed May 22, 2013 8:45 am

dongibby wrote:
Tyreke as the Jazz starting PG all I am going to say to that is NO THANK YOU and leave it at that

I gotta say the same thing about Monta Ellis. This Jazz team as constructed needs to add a PG that plays defense and on the other end a guy that puts Fav/Kanter/GH/Burks etc into a position to score. Monta Ellis is a SG in a PG body, always has been. He'd be an elite 6th man winner for the rest of his career if someone would figure out how to use him properly.

I'd take Calderon over Monta Ellis actually.
I'm warming up to Tyreke Evans, but he's still not my choice. I hate the idea of going after someone and HOPING he is going to fit well, verses going and getting what we need and already having confidence.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Wed May 22, 2013 9:09 am

Mutangclan wrote:
dongibby wrote:
Tyreke as the Jazz starting PG all I am going to say to that is NO THANK YOU and leave it at that

I gotta say the same thing about Monta Ellis. This Jazz team as constructed needs to add a PG that plays defense and on the other end a guy that puts Fav/Kanter/GH/Burks etc into a position to score. Monta Ellis is a SG in a PG body, always has been. He'd be an elite 6th man winner for the rest of his career if someone would figure out how to use him properly.

I'd take Calderon over Monta Ellis actually.
I'm warming up to Tyreke Evans, but he's still not my choice. I hate the idea of going after someone and HOPING he is going to fit well, verses going and getting what we need and already having confidence.

Amen to that, brother...with a caveat. If the Jazz can go after someone they HOPE will show potential star for VERY LITTLE cash I'm in, but no gambling on dudes who have been in the league awhile and "should be better when they are playing in a new system" ala Marv Willilams. And as for PG's in general, the Jazz are in a bind. No way the draft delivers a PG ready to start in '14/'15 when its the time for the Jazz to show again so they need a filler PG on a short-term contract to mentor young drafted PG(s). It's an awkward deal to say the least. If the young PG doesn't cut it, the short-term guy needs to be good enough, like a Calderon, while they continue to find a reliable backup or two. Lets just cut to the chase and get CP3.
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PostSubject: repost from the Draft thread...   Wed May 22, 2013 9:13 am

If we are going to keep a vet for the minimum that we expect to actually play PG then I'd keep Tinsley. No reason Watson can't stay on as a player development Coach, in fact I think the Jazz would be a little dumb not to keep him in that role if he's willing, but as a player he is done.

I actually wouldn't be surprised it they make a big short term offer to a guy like Calderone or Mo Williams, like 2 years 20 Million or something like that. I think Jazz management really believes that the best thing for young players development is making them compete for minutes, they've repeatedly signed vets for that purpose. Bringing in a young PG (or 2 or 3) and just handing them the keys isn't thier way. I think they are ready to let the C4 have a go at being the favorites with younger players/jouneymen challenging them because they've been competing for a few years now, so I don't think they will really feel the need to sign placeholders at the other 4 positions, but at PG I expect the Jazz to bring in a vet that they think could be a starter if the young guys don't really step up.

Also, don't forget the Jazz also have an option for Jerel McNeal, so he could factor in to this conversation as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Wed May 22, 2013 9:21 am

TheMagnus wrote:
If we are going to keep a vet for the minimum that we expect to actually play PG then I'd keep Tinsley. No reason Watson can't stay on as a player development Coach, in fact I think the Jazz would be a little dumb not to keep him in that role if he's willing, but as a player he is done.

I actually wouldn't be surprised it they make a big short term offer to a guy like Calderone or Mo Williams, like 2 years 20 Million or something like that. I think Jazz management really believes that the best thing for young players development is making them compete for minutes, they've repeatedly signed vets for that purpose. Bringing in a young PG (or 2 or 3) and just handing them the keys isn't thier way. I think they are ready to let the C4 have a go at being the favorites with younger players/jouneymen challenging them because they've been competing for a few years now, so I don't think they will really feel the need to sign placeholders at the other 4 positions, but at PG I expect the Jazz to bring in a vet that they think could be a starter if the young guys don't really step up.

Also, don't forget the Jazz also have an option for Jerel McNeal, so he could factor in to this conversation as well.

Man, I think you have it backwards. Watson should be the backup and Tinsley the coach! Razz

I'd take Calderon over Mo for damn sure - I'm not sure we've seen Calderon's best ball yet and based on last year Mo is past prime and heading down and ready to be some team's awesome #2 PG.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Wed May 22, 2013 9:32 am

MTJazz wrote:
TheMagnus wrote:
If we are going to keep a vet for the minimum that we expect to actually play PG then I'd keep Tinsley. No reason Watson can't stay on as a player development Coach, in fact I think the Jazz would be a little dumb not to keep him in that role if he's willing, but as a player he is done.

I actually wouldn't be surprised it they make a big short term offer to a guy like Calderone or Mo Williams, like 2 years 20 Million or something like that. I think Jazz management really believes that the best thing for young players development is making them compete for minutes, they've repeatedly signed vets for that purpose. Bringing in a young PG (or 2 or 3) and just handing them the keys isn't thier way. I think they are ready to let the C4 have a go at being the favorites with younger players/jouneymen challenging them because they've been competing for a few years now, so I don't think they will really feel the need to sign placeholders at the other 4 positions, but at PG I expect the Jazz to bring in a vet that they think could be a starter if the young guys don't really step up.

Also, don't forget the Jazz also have an option for Jerel McNeal, so he could factor in to this conversation as well.

Man, I think you have it backwards. Watson should be the backup and Tinsley the coach! Razz

I'd take Calderon over Mo for damn sure - I'm not sure we've seen Calderon's best ball yet and based on last year Mo is past prime and heading down and ready to be some team's awesome #2 PG.

Ya, but you know KOC's affinity for Mo Williams, and the Jazz love for continuity. I think Mo gets the call before Calderone, even though Calderone is a much better player and a MUCH MUCH better PG.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Wed May 22, 2013 10:07 am

MTJazz wrote:
TheMagnus wrote:
If we are going to keep a vet for the minimum that we expect to actually play PG then I'd keep Tinsley. No reason Watson can't stay on as a player development Coach, in fact I think the Jazz would be a little dumb not to keep him in that role if he's willing, but as a player he is done.

I actually wouldn't be surprised it they make a big short term offer to a guy like Calderone or Mo Williams, like 2 years 20 Million or something like that. I think Jazz management really believes that the best thing for young players development is making them compete for minutes, they've repeatedly signed vets for that purpose. Bringing in a young PG (or 2 or 3) and just handing them the keys isn't thier way. I think they are ready to let the C4 have a go at being the favorites with younger players/jouneymen challenging them because they've been competing for a few years now, so I don't think they will really feel the need to sign placeholders at the other 4 positions, but at PG I expect the Jazz to bring in a vet that they think could be a starter if the young guys don't really step up.

Also, don't forget the Jazz also have an option for Jerel McNeal, so he could factor in to this conversation as well.

Man, I think you have it backwards. Watson should be the backup and Tinsley the coach! Razz

I'd take Calderon over Mo for damn sure - I'm not sure we've seen Calderon's best ball yet and based on last year Mo is past prime and heading down and ready to be some team's awesome #2 PG.

Calderon would be a nice pick-up for the Jazz for sure but Mo Williams he is always injured and it is time the Jazz move's on, PG is I think the Jazz biggest need right now and if they can find a Vet like Calderon to fill it this summer they should jump on it. If the Jazz can't find a guy they like at the PG in free-agency I would be OK with them starting Burks I think the Kid showed he can play at a high level at the end of the season, I think the more he plays there in game situations the better he is going to get because this is how it was working last season.

All I am trying to say when I talk about adding a guy like Ellis (as a back-up ) over a guy like Evens ( as a starter ) is that I think he would fill the Jazz needs better if they was going after a SG/PG type, I think Hayward and Evens would be fighting each other for SG minutes where Ellis would be coming off the bench backing up both PG and SG enough said.

Ellis is at a place where he is going to have to take on a role and with the way he can hit the long range shot he would be a big up grade over Foye IMO that's why I would like to see the Jazz at least talk with his people to see just where he is at.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Wed May 22, 2013 3:51 pm

dongibby wrote:

All I am trying to say when I talk about adding a guy like Ellis (as a back-up ) over a guy like Evens ( as a starter ) is that I think he would fill the Jazz needs better if they was going after a SG/PG type, I think Hayward and Evens would be fighting each other for SG minutes where Ellis would be coming off the bench backing up both PG and SG enough said.

Ellis is at a place where he is going to have to take on a role and with the way he can hit the long range shot he would be a big up grade over Foye IMO that's why I would like to see the Jazz at least talk with his people to see just where he is at.

Hey, if the Jazz were to sign Monta Ellis as their new 6th man, then I'd be ecstatic. However, that wouldn't be decided before signing him, and even if it was, I'm sure Monta is not going to except a new contract that comes with a 6th man position. The dude will turn 28 this season, so at his peak. No way in hell he'll be accepting a contract for 6th man, sorry Don.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Wed May 22, 2013 6:10 pm

Mutangclan wrote:
dongibby wrote:

All I am trying to say when I talk about adding a guy like Ellis (as a back-up ) over a guy like Evens ( as a starter ) is that I think he would fill the Jazz needs better if they was going after a SG/PG type, I think Hayward and Evens would be fighting each other for SG minutes where Ellis would be coming off the bench backing up both PG and SG enough said.

Ellis is at a place where he is going to have to take on a role and with the way he can hit the long range shot he would be a big up grade over Foye IMO that's why I would like to see the Jazz at least talk with his people to see just where he is at.

Hey, if the Jazz were to sign Monta Ellis as their new 6th man, then I'd be ecstatic. However, that wouldn't be decided before signing him, and even if it was, I'm sure Monta is not going to except a new contract that comes with a 6th man position. The dude will turn 28 this season, so at his peak. No way in hell he'll be accepting a contract for 6th man, sorry Don.

Well the talk was that Ellis wants to play for a winning team that is why he did not pick up his player option and the guy's talking was saying that he would more than likely have to take a pay cut and a lesser role if he wanted to sign with one of the top team's, that's why I say the Jazz should at least talk to his people to see where he really is can't hurt.

The guys talking was Steve Smith and the guys he's on NBA TV with just so you know where the talk came from.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Wed May 22, 2013 6:43 pm

dongibby wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:
dongibby wrote:

All I am trying to say when I talk about adding a guy like Ellis (as a back-up ) over a guy like Evens ( as a starter ) is that I think he would fill the Jazz needs better if they was going after a SG/PG type, I think Hayward and Evens would be fighting each other for SG minutes where Ellis would be coming off the bench backing up both PG and SG enough said.

Ellis is at a place where he is going to have to take on a role and with the way he can hit the long range shot he would be a big up grade over Foye IMO that's why I would like to see the Jazz at least talk with his people to see just where he is at.

Hey, if the Jazz were to sign Monta Ellis as their new 6th man, then I'd be ecstatic. However, that wouldn't be decided before signing him, and even if it was, I'm sure Monta is not going to except a new contract that comes with a 6th man position. The dude will turn 28 this season, so at his peak. No way in hell he'll be accepting a contract for 6th man, sorry Don.

Well the talk was that Ellis wants to play for a winning team that is why he did not pick up his player option and the guy's talking was saying that he would more than likely have to take a pay cut and a lesser role if he wanted to sign with one of the top team's, that's why I say the Jazz should at least talk to his people to see where he really is can't hurt.

The guys talking was Steve Smith and the guys he's on NBA TV with just so you know where the talk came from.

OK, I'm in if Monta will take a bench role and bench salary like Foye should have!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Wed May 22, 2013 9:45 pm

dongibby wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:
dongibby wrote:

All I am trying to say when I talk about adding a guy like Ellis (as a back-up ) over a guy like Evens ( as a starter ) is that I think he would fill the Jazz needs better if they was going after a SG/PG type, I think Hayward and Evens would be fighting each other for SG minutes where Ellis would be coming off the bench backing up both PG and SG enough said.

Ellis is at a place where he is going to have to take on a role and with the way he can hit the long range shot he would be a big up grade over Foye IMO that's why I would like to see the Jazz at least talk with his people to see just where he is at.

Hey, if the Jazz were to sign Monta Ellis as their new 6th man, then I'd be ecstatic. However, that wouldn't be decided before signing him, and even if it was, I'm sure Monta is not going to except a new contract that comes with a 6th man position. The dude will turn 28 this season, so at his peak. No way in hell he'll be accepting a contract for 6th man, sorry Don.

Well the talk was that Ellis wants to play for a winning team that is why he did not pick up his player option and the guy's talking was saying that he would more than likely have to take a pay cut and a lesser role if he wanted to sign with one of the top team's, that's why I say the Jazz should at least talk to his people to see where he really is can't hurt.

The guys talking was Steve Smith and the guys he's on NBA TV with just so you know where the talk came from.

Hey, I'd love it. But I'd bet he's closer to signing with Indiana, or New York, or Memphis. Teams that maybe just need that one more stud on the team. Utah just isn't that team yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Thu May 23, 2013 1:04 am

outerspacefan wrote:
Richardale wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:

As a guard combo, those two would play off of each other very well. Tyreke can drive & kick. Mo can spot up and not be soley responsible for setting up the offense. One of my major issues (outside of the injuries) with Mo is he looks to shoot too much. Playing off the ball a bit more would be good for him. Truth is, the only way I really want Mo back is if he is either in a 6th man role, or if there is a player (like Evans) out there that can take the ball out of Williams' hands a bit more.

Here you go buddy:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1640259-utah-jazz-top-free-agent-target-at-every-position

also some interesting articles:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1640535-2013-nba-mock-draft-full-1st-round-predictions-with-potential-trades/page/15

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/daq52?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=utah-jazz

I like Dennis S and i think he'll be there at 21. Would be happy with him or Larkin at 21 should be a nice player on board at 14.

The german youngster will climb up more than one draftboard as draft day approaches...

Wow, I don't know how I missed this whole conversation. Since it was about free agents, I wouldn't have added much about the young German PG moving up the draft board. But, as far as the draft goes, I think someone will get a great draft pick with him.

What I'm kind of curious about is very little talk about actually getting CP3 in Free Agency. This is the first time CP3 really has had complete control over where he goes. Even though the Jazz have a lot of cap space, there will be higher bids. But, I don't think Chris Paul wants to focus on money more than potential. I really think he wants to be the best PG he can be-- and, that might be the best PG ever to play. He'll make enough money no matter where he goes. If CP3 seriously believes he has at least 3 years left to play at what is left of his maximum ability, he could use the Jazz as his platform (and, of course, the Jazz could use him as their platform to win a championship). If the Jazz landed CP3, I think they would move into legitimate contenders next year, with even a better chance the year after, and even a better chance the year after that. Looking at it that way, there are very few teams in the league that can say the same (Orlando, Sacramento, Toronto?).

Good conversation regardless.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Thu May 23, 2013 9:03 am

Saint Louis wrote:
outerspacefan wrote:
Richardale wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:

As a guard combo, those two would play off of each other very well. Tyreke can drive & kick. Mo can spot up and not be soley responsible for setting up the offense. One of my major issues (outside of the injuries) with Mo is he looks to shoot too much. Playing off the ball a bit more would be good for him. Truth is, the only way I really want Mo back is if he is either in a 6th man role, or if there is a player (like Evans) out there that can take the ball out of Williams' hands a bit more.

Here you go buddy:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1640259-utah-jazz-top-free-agent-target-at-every-position

also some interesting articles:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1640535-2013-nba-mock-draft-full-1st-round-predictions-with-potential-trades/page/15

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/daq52?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=utah-jazz

I like Dennis S and i think he'll be there at 21. Would be happy with him or Larkin at 21 should be a nice player on board at 14.

The german youngster will climb up more than one draftboard as draft day approaches...

Wow, I don't know how I missed this whole conversation. Since it was about free agents, I wouldn't have added much about the young German PG moving up the draft board. But, as far as the draft goes, I think someone will get a great draft pick with him.

What I'm kind of curious about is very little talk about actually getting CP3 in Free Agency. This is the first time CP3 really has had complete control over where he goes. Even though the Jazz have a lot of cap space, there will be higher bids. But, I don't think Chris Paul wants to focus on money more than potential. I really think he wants to be the best PG he can be-- and, that might be the best PG ever to play. He'll make enough money no matter where he goes. If CP3 seriously believes he has at least 3 years left to play at what is left of his maximum ability, he could use the Jazz as his platform (and, of course, the Jazz could use him as their platform to win a championship). If the Jazz landed CP3, I think they would move into legitimate contenders next year, with even a better chance the year after, and even a better chance the year after that. Looking at it that way, there are very few teams in the league that can say the same (Orlando, Sacramento, Toronto?).

Good conversation regardless.

On on board! Lets get Dwight H as one of our bigs and pull off a deal like the Heat did. Not max money but good money for both guys. If things dont work out give them both player option after the first year to opt out? Why not go for broke if we really want to win it all? DH finished the year off pretty solid.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Thu May 23, 2013 9:41 am

Saint Louis wrote:
outerspacefan wrote:
Richardale wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:

As a guard combo, those two would play off of each other very well. Tyreke can drive & kick. Mo can spot up and not be soley responsible for setting up the offense. One of my major issues (outside of the injuries) with Mo is he looks to shoot too much. Playing off the ball a bit more would be good for him. Truth is, the only way I really want Mo back is if he is either in a 6th man role, or if there is a player (like Evans) out there that can take the ball out of Williams' hands a bit more.

Here you go buddy:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1640259-utah-jazz-top-free-agent-target-at-every-position

also some interesting articles:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1640535-2013-nba-mock-draft-full-1st-round-predictions-with-potential-trades/page/15

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/daq52?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=utah-jazz

I like Dennis S and i think he'll be there at 21. Would be happy with him or Larkin at 21 should be a nice player on board at 14.

The german youngster will climb up more than one draftboard as draft day approaches...

Wow, I don't know how I missed this whole conversation. Since it was about free agents, I wouldn't have added much about the young German PG moving up the draft board. But, as far as the draft goes, I think someone will get a great draft pick with him.

What I'm kind of curious about is very little talk about actually getting CP3 in Free Agency. This is the first time CP3 really has had complete control over where he goes. Even though the Jazz have a lot of cap space, there will be higher bids. But, I don't think Chris Paul wants to focus on money more than potential. I really think he wants to be the best PG he can be-- and, that might be the best PG ever to play. He'll make enough money no matter where he goes. If CP3 seriously believes he has at least 3 years left to play at what is left of his maximum ability, he could use the Jazz as his platform (and, of course, the Jazz could use him as their platform to win a championship). If the Jazz landed CP3, I think they would move into legitimate contenders next year, with even a better chance the year after, and even a better chance the year after that. Looking at it that way, there are very few teams in the league that can say the same (Orlando, Sacramento, Toronto?).

Good conversation regardless.

Sorry saint, but CP3 has absolutly no chance of being the best PG to ever play. Do you remember a guy named John Stockton? CP3 hardly ever plays a full season, John Stockton hardly ever missed a game. CP3 has never shot 50% in a season. John Stockton had years of shooting 55+ %. Chris paul has never even averaged 12 assist per game. 12 assists per game was a bad year for Stockton trough his prime. Stockton played 19years, CP3 won't get close to that. There are only 2 guys in the NBA that have a chance at competing with the superstars of the 80's and 90's and those are LBJ who is already better than anyone but MJ, Hakim, and Larry Bird. And the other is KD. The NBA talent level is a joke compared to the 80's and 90's talent. Especially the bigs in the league today, and even more so, the centers around the league today are a joke. If Hakim was in the league today he would shred these crap bigs and win the MVP every year.
Sorry to vent off topic, butbi love talking about basketball in the 90's because it was better than it is today
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Thu May 23, 2013 10:00 am

Drive"N"Kick wrote:

Sorry saint, but CP3 has absolutly no chance of being the best PG to ever play. Do you remember a guy named John Stockton? CP3 hardly ever plays a full season, John Stockton hardly ever missed a game. CP3 has never shot 50% in a season. John Stockton had years of shooting 55+ %. Chris paul has never even averaged 12 assist per game. 12 assists per game was a bad year for Stockton trough his prime. Stockton played 19years, CP3 won't get close to that. There are only 2 guys in the NBA that have a chance at competing with the superstars of the 80's and 90's and those are LBJ who is already better than anyone but MJ, Hakim, and Larry Bird. And the other is KD. The NBA talent level is a joke compared to the 80's and 90's talent. Especially the bigs in the league today, and even more so, the centers around the league today are a joke. If Hakim was in the league today he would shred these crap bigs and win the MVP every year.
Sorry to vent off topic, butbi love talking about basketball in the 90's because it was better than it is today

Love this take. +1.

Totally agree about Chris Paul, not sure that I agree in general about 80's-90's players being better than todays. There's a lot of hindsight nostalgia wrapped up in those feelings, and the old timers will tell you that nobody compares to the stars of the 60's and 70's. The game was certainly different back then though, and for those of us who enjoyed higher paced team basketball it's easy to say it was indeed better.

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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Thu May 23, 2013 12:14 pm

Love this take. +1.

Totally agree about Chris Paul, not sure that I agree in general about 80's-90's players being better than todays. There's a lot of hindsight nostalgia wrapped up in those feelings, and the old timers will tell you that nobody compares to the stars of the 60's and 70's. The game was certainly different back then though, and for those of us who enjoyed higher paced team basketball it's easy to say it was indeed better.

[/quote]


I have been watching basketball starting from the late 50's and I watched guys like Wilt, Bill Russell, the logo Jerry West to guys like Larry Bird and Magic Johnson in those days it was a real man's game compared to today's game. I have to say my favorite years was the 60's, 70's and 80's after that the league started getting watered down with player's declaring for the draft after only one year of college ball or coming right out of high school. I really believe that in the early years of the NBA the level of players talent on a team was a lot deeper than the latter years and that to me is the biggest difference between those years and now the quality of players no doubt about it.

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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Fri May 24, 2013 12:00 am

Drive"N"Kick wrote:
Saint Louis wrote:
outerspacefan wrote:
Richardale wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:

As a guard combo, those two would play off of each other very well. Tyreke can drive & kick. Mo can spot up and not be soley responsible for setting up the offense. One of my major issues (outside of the injuries) with Mo is he looks to shoot too much. Playing off the ball a bit more would be good for him. Truth is, the only way I really want Mo back is if he is either in a 6th man role, or if there is a player (like Evans) out there that can take the ball out of Williams' hands a bit more.

Here you go buddy:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1640259-utah-jazz-top-free-agent-target-at-every-position

also some interesting articles:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1640535-2013-nba-mock-draft-full-1st-round-predictions-with-potential-trades/page/15

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/daq52?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=utah-jazz

I like Dennis S and i think he'll be there at 21. Would be happy with him or Larkin at 21 should be a nice player on board at 14.

The german youngster will climb up more than one draftboard as draft day approaches...

Wow, I don't know how I missed this whole conversation. Since it was about free agents, I wouldn't have added much about the young German PG moving up the draft board. But, as far as the draft goes, I think someone will get a great draft pick with him.

What I'm kind of curious about is very little talk about actually getting CP3 in Free Agency. This is the first time CP3 really has had complete control over where he goes. Even though the Jazz have a lot of cap space, there will be higher bids. But, I don't think Chris Paul wants to focus on money more than potential. I really think he wants to be the best PG he can be-- and, that might be the best PG ever to play. He'll make enough money no matter where he goes. If CP3 seriously believes he has at least 3 years left to play at what is left of his maximum ability, he could use the Jazz as his platform (and, of course, the Jazz could use him as their platform to win a championship). If the Jazz landed CP3, I think they would move into legitimate contenders next year, with even a better chance the year after, and even a better chance the year after that. Looking at it that way, there are very few teams in the league that can say the same (Orlando, Sacramento, Toronto?).

Good conversation regardless.

Sorry saint, but CP3 has absolutly no chance of being the best PG to ever play. Do you remember a guy named John Stockton? CP3 hardly ever plays a full season, John Stockton hardly ever missed a game. CP3 has never shot 50% in a season. John Stockton had years of shooting 55+ %. Chris paul has never even averaged 12 assist per game. 12 assists per game was a bad year for Stockton trough his prime. Stockton played 19years, CP3 won't get close to that. There are only 2 guys in the NBA that have a chance at competing with the superstars of the 80's and 90's and those are LBJ who is already better than anyone but MJ, Hakim, and Larry Bird. And the other is KD. The NBA talent level is a joke compared to the 80's and 90's talent. Especially the bigs in the league today, and even more so, the centers around the league today are a joke. If Hakim was in the league today he would shred these crap bigs and win the MVP every year.
Sorry to vent off topic, butbi love talking about basketball in the 90's because it was better than it is today

I'm with you 99.99% as far as Stock is concerned. And, yes, it's off topic, but I brought it on (I'll try to bring it back on topic later). IMO, Stock is the best PG ever, and, it's unlikely anyone will ever challenge him for that title. However, Stock doesn't hold that title in the world's opinion. Even though Stock holds the record for most assists and most steals, and was one of the most eligible players for iron-man of their entire career, there are a lot of people don't even give him credit as the best pg ever. A lot of people put Magic as the best PG ever, and others put other PGs ahead of Stock that I won't even mention because it irritates me so much to even think about it. IMO, Stock is the best PG so far in the history of the NBA, and we may not see a better PG in our lifetime.

However, from CP3's perspective, he can be a better PG than Stockton! He won't achieve Stockton's numbers in every stat category. Neither have any of the other candidates for best PG in the history of the NBA. Stats, though, aren't the entire picture. For instance, if the best PG to play in the NBA suffered a serious injury in their 3rd or 4th year, they would never accomplish what Stock has accomplished. We would have to use other standards than career accomplishments to decide who was the best PG ever. I mean there are, and will be, times where players other than Stockton are playing better than any other PG has played, including all of the current candidates. Derrick Rose, Steph Curry, Tony Parker, maybe even Rondo or Russel Westbrook could reach that plateau. CP3, also has that potential.

Bringing it back on topic, CP3 would have a very good option to play on a team that could solidify his position as arguably the best PG to play if he chose to come to Utah. A championship or two wouldn't hurt any candidate. A championship or two in Utah during the Miami administration would be something almost unapproachable! We have cap space to make Miami-like moves a reality. Okay, there isn't the same sensationalism covering CP3's FA announcement as there was for LeBron-- but, this could be just as big of an event. CP3 could put his foot down and say he wants to win championships, and the Jazz have solid ground for that footstep.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Fri May 24, 2013 4:04 am

As much as I love Stockton, Magic, with the matchup problems he created, is the best pg ever... It's all speculation but look at it this way: If Magic and Stockton switched teams- the Jazz would have rings. The Lakers with Stockton wouldn't be as great..
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Fri May 24, 2013 9:00 am

CP3 is not coming to the Jazz. Period. And the Jazz are not potential contenders. Period. NO WAY CP3 signs in a small market, (sucks for his brand), with a FO that won't overpay to bring in stars and a coach like Corbin.

We can all hope the Jazz get competitive in 2-4 years, but it would be winning the lottery to scare anyone in the WCF. While the Jazz tinker with young guys you got teams like the Mavs who are ready to take on Howard and Jack, and look out for Houston. Not trying to be a downer but the Jazz, while in better potential future shape than half the league, aren't obviously poised, (as were the Thunder for example), to suddenly take the league by storm.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Fri May 24, 2013 9:22 am

aliveandkickin wrote:
As much as I love Stockton, Magic, with the matchup problems he created, is the best pg ever... It's all speculation but look at it this way: If Magic and Stockton switched teams- the Jazz would have rings. The Lakers with Stockton wouldn't be as great..

Disagree. The Lakers had 3 of the 50 all time greatest players, it wasn't just Magic.

As great as Magic was, Ive always thought of it this way: If someone wrote down the job description for a point guard, and had tryouts, and a full on job search, Stockton would score a 100 on every category, and would be considered the best man for the job.

John Stockton, best pure point guard, ever. (and this coming from a massive Pistons fan who emulated Isaiah Thomas at guard and always tried to rebound like Rodman, moved to Utah in 1989 and actually had his allegiance switched from World Champions to Stockton and Malone.)

Oh, and yea. No way in hell CP3 comes anywhere close to Utah, other than flying over.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Fri May 24, 2013 10:40 am

Mutangclan wrote:
aliveandkickin wrote:
As much as I love Stockton, Magic, with the matchup problems he created, is the best pg ever... It's all speculation but look at it this way: If Magic and Stockton switched teams- the Jazz would have rings. The Lakers with Stockton wouldn't be as great..

Disagree. The Lakers had 3 of the 50 all time greatest players, it wasn't just Magic.

As great as Magic was, Ive always thought of it this way: If someone wrote down the job description for a point guard, and had tryouts, and a full on job search, Stockton would score a 100 on every category, and would be considered the best man for the job.

John Stockton, best pure point guard, ever. (and this coming from a massive Pistons fan who emulated Isaiah Thomas at guard and always tried to rebound like Rodman, moved to Utah in 1989 and actually had his allegiance switched from World Champions to Stockton and Malone.)


Oh, and yea. No way in hell CP3 comes anywhere close to Utah, other than flying over.


Oh come on i know they'll come here at least once to play! Idea
And next year half way into the season cp3 will only wished he was a jazz man! affraid
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Fri May 24, 2013 10:47 pm

Mutangclan wrote:
aliveandkickin wrote:
As much as I love Stockton, Magic, with the matchup problems he created, is the best pg ever... It's all speculation but look at it this way: If Magic and Stockton switched teams- the Jazz would have rings. The Lakers with Stockton wouldn't be as great..

Disagree. The Lakers had 3 of the 50 all time greatest players, it wasn't just Magic.

As great as Magic was, Ive always thought of it this way: If someone wrote down the job description for a point guard, and had tryouts, and a full on job search, Stockton would score a 100 on every category, and would be considered the best man for the job.

John Stockton, best pure point guard, ever. (and this coming from a massive Pistons fan who emulated Isaiah Thomas at guard and always tried to rebound like Rodman, moved to Utah in 1989 and actually had his allegiance switched from World Champions to Stockton and Malone.)

Oh, and yea. No way in hell CP3 comes anywhere close to Utah, other than flying over.

That's cool. How about Magic being a pure pg as well- which he was. Imagine Stock being 6' 9"!!! It would have increased the Jazz' chances of having rings. They're basically the same player but Magic could play any position! advantage, obviously, Magic.
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