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 Best free agents of 2013

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aliveandkickin
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:36 am

Been reading Brad Thors "Black list" and lo and behold NSA indeed can listen in on phone calls ..legally.

Reading here that CP3 has a remote chance of coming to Utah is like an owner paying off a NSA agent to deliver the goods on what player a team would draft, or pay to listen on contract talks so they can offer a bigger contract to a player... IOW, it's feasible, it really could happen when money is involved.... Let's take it to another level ppl. Greg Miller, better yet, Mark Cuban offers a NSA agent a cool million to see what Houston is offering Dwight Howard...He then calls Howards agent (or CP3's agent, take your pick) and offers the player more than the other team. MEANWHILE, another owner has paid a NSA agent to listen to Cubans calls to get his own inside info to beat Cubans deal.......or he could call Cuban directly and tell him he has the phone records of his tampering and will let him off the hook if he lets his team get CP3... Or, since CP3 has his own free agency, an owner could have a NSA agent listen in on his conversations (say CP3 has a mistress or three different gf's he's playing) and blackmail him to go to his team..... it COULD happen, again, when money is involved, anything can happen, right? Yes alive you're right... K, since we know it's possible, say CP3 goes to the Lakers after being blackmailed. He then becomes paranoid and his game drops since he's not sure if someone is listening in on any random conversation like say-- is Cliffhanger a better Stallone movie than the third Rocky movie... CP3 is at the free throw line and suddenly freaks himself out with not knowing if the best Stallone movie conversation was bugged.. he then misses both free throws and the Lakers miss the playoffs because of his paranoia.. He gets depressed and talks about the issue on the phone. The phone is still bugged. Lakers brass realize they created a mess messing with CP3's head and trade him for Deron or someone.. Deorn comes to the Lakers not knowing they have a NSA informer. Derons game slips from natural reasons. The Lakers decide to put pressure on him by reciting his conversation with a hommy about their favorite rap song or somethun. Deron responds better to the pressure of knowing his personal life is being monitored, word for word. He becomes a better teammate and the Lakers ultimately win a ring again--all from bugging players phones.....
I'd give that scenario a better shot than CP3 coming to Utah.

Back to free agents. I hear Ostertag may tryout for the Jazz now Malone is their bigmen coach. Any other news?
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aliveandkickin
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:23 am

TheMagnus wrote:
Here's the thing about the Magic/Stockton argument, I think if you ask me the question in different ways I'm going to give you different answers.

What PG had the best career of all time? Stockton. And it's not even close. He has not one but TWO of the most unbreakable records in the history of NBA, he led the league in assists 9 years in a row. He played the 3rd most games and the 8th most minutes in the history of the NBA. He only missed games in 2 of his 19 seasons in the NBA, and he played at a ridiculously high level untill he retired at age 40. Don't even argue, you can't, he had the greatest career of any PG ever.

Who was the best PURE/PASSING/TRADITIONAL PG ever? I'm going Stockton again here. He was one of the best Defensive PG's ever, he led the league in assists for 9 years straight and holds nearly unbreakable records for assists and steals, and he was VERY VERY efficient when he shot the ball himself.

Who was the best PG ever? I think this question is the same as ...Out of all of the guys who were primarily PG's in the NBA, who was the best player in their prime. Here I'm going Magic. Overall he was just such an amazing and unique player. He nearly averaged a tripple double, for THREE STRAIGHT SEASONS. Ya, think on that for a minute or two. His 86-87 season has to be one of the greatest individual performances of all time, he averaged 24 points, 12 asists, 6 rebounds, shot 52% from the field and 85% from the free throw line and led his team to a championship in one of the All Time Classic playoff runs.

If I could trade stockton in his prime for Magic in his prime I'd do it in a second, and if I somebody offered me over 30 Magic for over 30 Stockton I'd say HELL NO!

It's fun to talk about this stuff though, take the walk down memory lane and kick up some dirt along the way.
Brent Barry and Tim Legler will disagree. They just said on ESPN that Tony Parker will be behind Magic if he gets his fourth ring as the most accomplished PG of all time...Hard to argue against rings. Stats are cool but rings matter more.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:28 am

aliveandkickin wrote:
TheMagnus wrote:
Here's the thing about the Magic/Stockton argument, I think if you ask me the question in different ways I'm going to give you different answers.

What PG had the best career of all time? Stockton. And it's not even close. He has not one but TWO of the most unbreakable records in the history of NBA, he led the league in assists 9 years in a row. He played the 3rd most games and the 8th most minutes in the history of the NBA. He only missed games in 2 of his 19 seasons in the NBA, and he played at a ridiculously high level untill he retired at age 40. Don't even argue, you can't, he had the greatest career of any PG ever.

Who was the best PURE/PASSING/TRADITIONAL PG ever? I'm going Stockton again here. He was one of the best Defensive PG's ever, he led the league in assists for 9 years straight and holds nearly unbreakable records for assists and steals, and he was VERY VERY efficient when he shot the ball himself.

Who was the best PG ever? I think this question is the same as ...Out of all of the guys who were primarily PG's in the NBA, who was the best player in their prime. Here I'm going Magic. Overall he was just such an amazing and unique player. He nearly averaged a tripple double, for THREE STRAIGHT SEASONS. Ya, think on that for a minute or two. His 86-87 season has to be one of the greatest individual performances of all time, he averaged 24 points, 12 asists, 6 rebounds, shot 52% from the field and 85% from the free throw line and led his team to a championship in one of the All Time Classic playoff runs.

If I could trade stockton in his prime for Magic in his prime I'd do it in a second, and if I somebody offered me over 30 Magic for over 30 Stockton I'd say HELL NO!

It's fun to talk about this stuff though, take the walk down memory lane and kick up some dirt along the way.
Brent Barry and Tim Legler will disagree. They just said on ESPN that Tony Parker will be behind Magic if he gets his fourth ring as the most accomplished PG of all time...Hard to argue against rings. Stats are cool but rings matter more.

I've always found that line of thinking a little weird, and I don't find it that hard to argue against rings at all. I mean I get it, it's the only reason you can include Bill Russell in all-time-great conversations, and winning absolutely matters, but I think the whole love affair with rings is WAY overblown in conversations of individual greatness.

I mean, really, Tony Parker more accomplished than John Stockton? With all disrespect to MR. Legler and Mr. Barry, that's the damn stupidest thing I've ever heard. If it's hard to argue with rings then why don't we just go ahead and crown Derrick Fisher the greatest PG ever and end the conversation right now?

Basketball is a team sport, and it is a complicated exercise to separate the individual from the team. I feel like people who want to argue that individual greatness should be primarily judged using team accomplishments actually do a discredit to both the individual and the team.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:43 am

TheMagnus wrote:
aliveandkickin wrote:
TheMagnus wrote:
Here's the thing about the Magic/Stockton argument, I think if you ask me the question in different ways I'm going to give you different answers.

What PG had the best career of all time? Stockton. And it's not even close. He has not one but TWO of the most unbreakable records in the history of NBA, he led the league in assists 9 years in a row. He played the 3rd most games and the 8th most minutes in the history of the NBA. He only missed games in 2 of his 19 seasons in the NBA, and he played at a ridiculously high level untill he retired at age 40. Don't even argue, you can't, he had the greatest career of any PG ever.

Who was the best PURE/PASSING/TRADITIONAL PG ever? I'm going Stockton again here. He was one of the best Defensive PG's ever, he led the league in assists for 9 years straight and holds nearly unbreakable records for assists and steals, and he was VERY VERY efficient when he shot the ball himself.

Who was the best PG ever? I think this question is the same as ...Out of all of the guys who were primarily PG's in the NBA, who was the best player in their prime. Here I'm going Magic. Overall he was just such an amazing and unique player. He nearly averaged a tripple double, for THREE STRAIGHT SEASONS. Ya, think on that for a minute or two. His 86-87 season has to be one of the greatest individual performances of all time, he averaged 24 points, 12 asists, 6 rebounds, shot 52% from the field and 85% from the free throw line and led his team to a championship in one of the All Time Classic playoff runs.

If I could trade stockton in his prime for Magic in his prime I'd do it in a second, and if I somebody offered me over 30 Magic for over 30 Stockton I'd say HELL NO!

It's fun to talk about this stuff though, take the walk down memory lane and kick up some dirt along the way.
Brent Barry and Tim Legler will disagree. They just said on ESPN that Tony Parker will be behind Magic if he gets his fourth ring as the most accomplished PG of all time...Hard to argue against rings. Stats are cool but rings matter more.

I've always found that line of thinking a little weird, and I don't find it that hard to argue against rings at all. I mean I get it, it's the only reason you can include Bill Russell in all-time-great conversations, and winning absolutely matters, but I think the whole love affair with rings is WAY overblown in conversations of individual greatness.

I mean, really, Tony Parker more accomplished than John Stockton? With all disrespect to MR. Legler and Mr. Barry, that's the damn stupidest thing I've ever heard. If it's hard to argue with rings then why don't we just go ahead and crown Derrick Fisher the greatest PG ever and end the conversation right now?

Basketball is a team sport, and it is a complicated exercise to separate the individual from the team. I feel like people who want to argue that individual greatness should be primarily judged using team accomplishments actually do a discredit to both the individual and the team.
This way means Robert Horry is better than Magic. Not a good way to say who's best.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:49 am

TheMagnus wrote:
aliveandkickin wrote:
TheMagnus wrote:
Here's the thing about the Magic/Stockton argument, I think if you ask me the question in different ways I'm going to give you different answers.

What PG had the best career of all time? Stockton. And it's not even close. He has not one but TWO of the most unbreakable records in the history of NBA, he led the league in assists 9 years in a row. He played the 3rd most games and the 8th most minutes in the history of the NBA. He only missed games in 2 of his 19 seasons in the NBA, and he played at a ridiculously high level untill he retired at age 40. Don't even argue, you can't, he had the greatest career of any PG ever.

Who was the best PURE/PASSING/TRADITIONAL PG ever? I'm going Stockton again here. He was one of the best Defensive PG's ever, he led the league in assists for 9 years straight and holds nearly unbreakable records for assists and steals, and he was VERY VERY efficient when he shot the ball himself.

Who was the best PG ever? I think this question is the same as ...Out of all of the guys who were primarily PG's in the NBA, who was the best player in their prime. Here I'm going Magic. Overall he was just such an amazing and unique player. He nearly averaged a tripple double, for THREE STRAIGHT SEASONS. Ya, think on that for a minute or two. His 86-87 season has to be one of the greatest individual performances of all time, he averaged 24 points, 12 asists, 6 rebounds, shot 52% from the field and 85% from the free throw line and led his team to a championship in one of the All Time Classic playoff runs.

If I could trade stockton in his prime for Magic in his prime I'd do it in a second, and if I somebody offered me over 30 Magic for over 30 Stockton I'd say HELL NO!

It's fun to talk about this stuff though, take the walk down memory lane and kick up some dirt along the way.
Brent Barry and Tim Legler will disagree. They just said on ESPN that Tony Parker will be behind Magic if he gets his fourth ring as the most accomplished PG of all time...Hard to argue against rings. Stats are cool but rings matter more.

I've always found that line of thinking a little weird, and I don't find it that hard to argue against rings at all. I mean I get it, it's the only reason you can include Bill Russell in all-time-great conversations, and winning absolutely matters, but I think the whole love affair with rings is WAY overblown in conversations of individual greatness.

I mean, really, Tony Parker more accomplished than John Stockton? With all disrespect to MR. Legler and Mr. Barry, that's the damn stupidest thing I've ever heard. If it's hard to argue with rings then why don't we just go ahead and crown Derrick Fisher the greatest PG ever and end the conversation right now?

Basketball is a team sport, and it is a complicated exercise to separate the individual from the team. I feel like people who want to argue that individual greatness should be primarily judged using team accomplishments actually do a discredit to both the individual and the team.

Drrrrrrrrrr, AGREEED. Also, there's been two arguments going on here with PG talk. Who is the greatest point guard ever, and who is the greater player? Really two different things.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:59 pm



Last edited by Richardale on Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: The Glove   Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:15 pm

Richardale wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-cG7uUBYxo Lets let Gary talke!

Interesting take and not just from anybody, but from a PG dubbed The Glove for his defensive prowess.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:13 am

The Jazz are holding a massive 3 day "mini-camp" with 24 free agents starting yesterday (tues) and running through tomorrow.  The interesting thing is that this is solely a Jazz event, no other teams are invited.  The 24 players are a collection of guys that have had limited stints in the NBA and have spent most of thier time in the D-League or Europe, and includes some familiar names.  Here's a list of the participants...

Dee Bost, 6-2, 176 (Recent team: Buducnost, College: Mississippi St. 2012)
Will Buford, 6-6, 220 (Bluesens Monbus, Ohio State '12)
Xavier Gibson, 6-11, 229 (Panelefsinlakos, Florida State '12)
Drew Gordon, 6-9, 235 (Sanco di Sardania, New Mexico '12)
JaMychal Green, 6-8, 220 (Austin Toros, Alabama '12)
Rodney Green, 6-5, 205 (Novipiu Casale, LaSalle '10)
Jorge Gutierrez, 6-3, 194 (Canton Charge, California '12)
Marquez Haynes, 6-3, 185 (Art Dragons-GER, Texas Arlington '10)
Lazar Hayward, 6-6, 225 (Los Angeles Defenders, Marquette '10)
Cedric Jackson, 6-3, 209 (Breakers-AUS, Cleveland State '09)
Edwin Jackson, 6-3, 201 (ASVEL)
Rick Jackson, 6-9, 235 (Austin Toros, Syracuse '12)
D.J. Kennedy, 6-6, 215 (Rio Grande Valley Vipers, St. John’s '11)
Travis Leslie, 6-4, 205 (Santa Cruz Warriors, Georgia '11)
Rasid Mahalbasic, 6-10, 220 (Asseco Prokom)
Toure Murry, 6-5, 200 (Rio Grande Valley Vipers, Wichita State '12)
Harouna Mutombo, 6-5, 200 (Peja-Kosovo, West Carolina '12)
Arinze Onuaku, 6-9, 255 (Canton Charge, Syracuse '10)
Josh Owens, 6-8, 245 (Idaho Stampede, Stanford '12)
Chris Roberts, 6-4, 205 (Austin Toros, Bradley '10)
Henry Sims, 6-10, 244 (Petron Blaze, Georgetown '12)
Jermaine Taylor, 6-4, 209 (Maine Red Claws, Central Florida '09)
Chris Wright, 6-8, 220 (Maine Red Claws, Dayton '11)
Luke Zeller, 6-11, 244 (Phoenix Suns, Notre Dame '09)


I think this is very interesting and encouraging, showing that D. Lindsey is ready to make his mark on the team.  I've been wishing for something like this for a couple seasons know, just always felt like there was so much young hungry talent out there that it was a shame to waste time and money on veteran rentals when you have no chance of contending.  

Here's a little piece on it from the DesNews..

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865581491/Utah-Jazz-bring-in-24-free-agents-for-unprecedented-3-day-minicamp.html
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:32 am

Couldn't agree more.  You know for a fact that somewhere among those 24 guys is a better player than the majority of guys in the late first round much less second and most will have a body of work to look at beyond 1 or 2 years of college.  Here is hoping a couple rise to the top of the pile and get invited to camp.

By the way, one would think the whole league is going to start bargain shopping like this, good to get out ahead of them.  Let us not forget that Danny Green and Gary Neal were DL "finds"!
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:50 pm

MTJazz wrote:
Man, Utah is not "just CP3 and change" away from the WCF.  I'm pretty sure that is what the Clippers figured and look how that turned out.  Chris Paul is awesome but he also isn't going to carry a team by himself into elite category.  I suppose we could hope the Jazz jelled to become a Memphis or Pacer-level squad...but lets face it, the Jazz are a good prospect for becoming relevant again based on the youth movement but I need to see how the squad plays next year before I start thinking challenging for the top 4, CP3 or not.

END OF MTJAZZ QUOTE.  Everything from here on is from Saint Louis:

Thanks Thejazzkickass, MuTang, and MtJazz for trying to keep this on topic.  We've been talking about a suggestion I had for going after CP3 in free agency.  I don't think it is out of the question, even though we won't be able to offer CP3 the most money.  Since CP3 is an unrestricted Free Agent for the 1st time in his life, I think we should go to him and see what it would take to get him here.  And, we can't offer more money than he'll get elsewhere.

We CAN offer a commitment to bringing in other FA players to improve his NBA legacy and offer a shot at a championship.  We also already have 6 players under contract that CP3 can both help and be helped by to secure what he may be after.  And, we have two first round draft picks and a 2nd round draft pick as ammunition to either use in the draft, or trade for another player to add to our arsenal (which would be HIS arsenal)!

As long as "making the most money possible" is NOT CP3s goal, we have a better shot than most NBA teams.  We have cap space and 3 draft picks, and a tradition of winning which has been tied to great PGs.

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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:07 pm

Saint Louis wrote:
MTJazz wrote:
Man, Utah is not "just CP3 and change" away from the WCF.  I'm pretty sure that is what the Clippers figured and look how that turned out.  Chris Paul is awesome but he also isn't going to carry a team by himself into elite category.  I suppose we could hope the Jazz jelled to become a Memphis or Pacer-level squad...but lets face it, the Jazz are a good prospect for becoming relevant again based on the youth movement but I need to see how the squad plays next year before I start thinking challenging for the top 4, CP3 or not.

END OF MTJAZZ QUOTE.  Everything from here on is from Saint Louis:

Thanks Thejazzkickass, MuTang, and MtJazz for trying to keep this on topic.  We've been talking about a suggestion I had for going after CP3 in free agency.  I don't think it is out of the question, even though we won't be able to offer CP3 the most money.  Since CP3 is an unrestricted Free Agent for the 1st time in his life, I think we should go to him and see what it would take to get him here.  And, we can't offer more money than he'll get elsewhere.

We CAN offer a commitment to bringing in other FA players to improve his NBA legacy and offer a shot at a championship.  We also already have 6 players under contract that CP3 can both help and be helped by to secure what he may be after.  And, we have two first round draft picks and a 2nd round draft pick as ammunition to either use in the draft, or trade for another player to add to our arsenal (which would be HIS arsenal)!

As long as "making the most money possible" is NOT CP3s goal, we have a better shot than most NBA teams.  We have cap space and 3 draft picks, and a tradition of winning which has been tied to great PGs.


CP3 is never going to be a Jazz player it is never going to happen that is just the way the cookie crumbles I am sorry to say, the biggest thing is the Jazz don't have enough money to send on the player's that CP3 would want them to go out and get it is going to take a team with very very deep pockets like the Laker's or Dallas who can spend that kind of money without making the team go bankruped. You guys can dream all you want to but at the end of the day CP3 is never going to come to the Utah Jazz.
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PostSubject: Re: Best free agents of 2013   Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:08 pm

dongibby wrote:
Saint Louis wrote:
MTJazz wrote:
Man, Utah is not "just CP3 and change" away from the WCF.  I'm pretty sure that is what the Clippers figured and look how that turned out.  Chris Paul is awesome but he also isn't going to carry a team by himself into elite category.  I suppose we could hope the Jazz jelled to become a Memphis or Pacer-level squad...but lets face it, the Jazz are a good prospect for becoming relevant again based on the youth movement but I need to see how the squad plays next year before I start thinking challenging for the top 4, CP3 or not.

END OF MTJAZZ QUOTE.  Everything from here on is from Saint Louis:

Thanks Thejazzkickass, MuTang, and MtJazz for trying to keep this on topic.  We've been talking about a suggestion I had for going after CP3 in free agency.  I don't think it is out of the question, even though we won't be able to offer CP3 the most money.  Since CP3 is an unrestricted Free Agent for the 1st time in his life, I think we should go to him and see what it would take to get him here.  And, we can't offer more money than he'll get elsewhere.

We CAN offer a commitment to bringing in other FA players to improve his NBA legacy and offer a shot at a championship.  We also already have 6 players under contract that CP3 can both help and be helped by to secure what he may be after.  And, we have two first round draft picks and a 2nd round draft pick as ammunition to either use in the draft, or trade for another player to add to our arsenal (which would be HIS arsenal)!

As long as "making the most money possible" is NOT CP3s goal, we have a better shot than most NBA teams.  We have cap space and 3 draft picks, and a tradition of winning which has been tied to great PGs.


CP3 is never going to be a Jazz player it is never going to happen that is just the way the cookie crumbles I am sorry to say, the biggest thing is the Jazz don't have enough money to send on the player's that CP3 would want them to go out and get it is going to take a team with very very deep pockets like the Laker's or Dallas who can spend that kind of money without making the team go bankruped. You guys can dream all you want to but at the end of the day CP3 is never going to come to the Utah Jazz.


We had our chance when we drafted D-will and passed on cp3. Never will be a jazz player unless its in a jazz band?
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