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 DC Deserves His Own Thread

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MTJazz
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PostSubject: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:02 pm

Just noting that the DC conversation pops up in just about every thread here so I thought we could dedicate one to J-dog, just like Enes "Pimp Daddy"* Kanter got. So, the following are what I summarize as the the talking points to-date. Feel free to add to the talking points list.

1. Seems consensus here that DC should start over Marvin and an enduring mystery why Ty/FO can't see this.
2. There is debate as to whether DC feels the love and will want to re-sign with the Jazz, especially if nothing changes and Marv/GH gets all his minutes.
3. There is debate as to his market value as a FA and whether anyone in the league besides the Jazz notice his value.
4. What, if anything, could DC do to earn more playing time?
5. What would Marv have to do to lose his starting role given below average SF production virtually every night seems enough for Ty.
6. Crunch and others have made a compelling statistical argument that DC is the most productive per minute player on the team.

What else am I missing?

* "Pimp Daddy", Kanter's tweet handle to all his Valentine Day biotches.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:27 pm

MTJazz wrote:
Just noting that the DC conversation pops up in just about every thread here so I thought we could dedicate one to J-dog, just like Enes "Pimp Daddy"* Kanter got. So, the following are what I summarize as the the talking points to-date. Feel free to add to the talking points list.

1. Seems consensus here that DC should start over Marvin and an enduring mystery why Ty/FO can't see this.
2. There is debate as to whether DC feels the love and will want to re-sign with the Jazz, especially if nothing changes and Marv/GH gets all his minutes.
3. There is debate as to his market value as a FA and whether anyone in the league besides the Jazz notice his value.
4. What, if anything, could DC do to earn more playing time?
5. What would Marv have to do to lose his starting role given below average SF production virtually every night seems enough for Ty.
6. Crunch and others have made a compelling statistical argument that DC is the most productive per minute player on the team.

What else am I missing?

* "Pimp Daddy", Kanter's tweet handle to all his Valentine Day biotches.

What I'd like to see is a look at DC's numbers as a starter. Hopefully, some of our number crunchers can answer that. Going from memory, I think DC's worst +/- game came when he started for us. Is that right? Even if it is true, I still/now like the argument for starting DC and bringing Marv off the bench.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:38 pm

I love DC off the bench, he is a quiet assasin. I believe his +/- is better off the bench. I like Marvin starting, maybe someone knows are +/- for 1st quarter totals.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:56 pm

Hound Dog wrote:
I love DC off the bench, he is a quiet assasin. I believe his +/- is better off the bench. I like Marvin starting, maybe someone knows are +/- for 1st quarter totals.

I LOVE Marvin starting....for Atlanta.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:49 pm

Hound Dog wrote:
I love DC off the bench, he is a quiet assasin. I believe his +/- is better off the bench. I like Marvin starting, maybe someone knows are +/- for 1st quarter totals.

I'd love it if he got off the bench too.

I'd really like to see a little Burks/DC/Hayward action against the clippers tonight.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:57 am

MTJazz wrote:
Crunch and others have made a compelling statistical argument that DC is the most productive per minute player on the team.

Just to clarify a little bit, I never said DC was rated the highest on the team with regard to overall productivity per minute stats like tendex per 48 mins, nba.com efficiency per 48 or Hollinger Player Efficiency Ratings. He is, however, rated higher on these kinds of productivity stats than all of our other pgs and wings, and he is rated dramatically higher than Marvin.

On plus minus ranking however, DC is indeed ranked the best on the team on both an overall basis and a per minute basis:
http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22012&split=9&team=Jazz

I suspect DC can make a positive difference as a starter or coming off the bench, and like many others here, would like to see DC take Marvin's starting spot.



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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:09 am

TheMagnus wrote:
... I'd really like to see a little Burks/DC/Hayward action against the clippers tonight.

These 3 have played some little minutes together this season; they provided awesome D, good player movenemt, nice size and athleticism...

DC clearly deserves to take a bunch of Marvin's minutes.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:22 am

In the Clippers game thread there is conjecture that a starting lineup tweak may be in the offing but near as I can tell it is just speculation because Ty hasn't seen the writing on the wall all year. A guy has to wonder why it takes getting this deep into the season for Ty to try another tweak to the starting lineup not due to an injury. Hayward to the 6th man spot - brilliant. But what about your starting SF who SEASON LONG is averaging 8 pts and 3.5 rbs in 25 minutes? How about the last 10 games when he is averaging 6 pts on 0.389 shooting? Meanwhile, DC, when he got to see the floor in the last 10, is averaging 9 pts and 3 rbs in 17 minutes on 0.522 shooting. And this earns him a DNP/junk time role when GH returned so we can watch Marvin's mediocre game get even worse? Maybe, just maybe, Marv's game is best suited for coming off the bench, finally no one expects him to be a meaningful starter, the pressure is off. It worked for GH.

Speaking of that tweak, I'm wondering if a smart move wouldn't actually be to move GH back into the starting line-up. He is young, he can also get run with the second unit and when he is gassed, then bring in DC and use Marv in the current DC role - DNP junk minutes. Burks and Kanter are showing they can pick up the scoring role in the second unit making GH's role there less important. I'd rather see our best 5 players start the game at this point as our bench is still very deep and perhaps it won't always be necessary for the second unit to try to dig out of the hole the starters left them with!
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:56 am

MTJazz wrote:
In the Clippers game thread there is conjecture that a starting lineup tweak may be in the offing but near as I can tell it is just speculation because Ty hasn't seen the writing on the wall all year. A guy has to wonder why it takes getting this deep into the season for Ty to try another tweak to the starting lineup not due to an injury. Hayward to the 6th man spot - brilliant. But what about your starting SF who SEASON LONG is averaging 8 pts and 3.5 rbs in 25 minutes? How about the last 10 games when he is averaging 6 pts on 0.389 shooting? Meanwhile, DC, when he got to see the floor in the last 10, is averaging 9 pts and 3 rbs in 17 minutes on 0.522 shooting. And this earns him a DNP/junk time role when GH returned so we can watch Marvin's mediocre game get even worse? Maybe, just maybe, Marv's game is best suited for coming off the bench, finally no one expects him to be a meaningful starter, the pressure is off. It worked for GH.

Speaking of that tweak, I'm wondering if a smart move wouldn't actually be to move GH back into the starting line-up. He is young, he can also get run with the second unit and when he is gassed, then bring in DC and use Marv in the current DC role - DNP junk minutes. Burks and Kanter are showing they can pick up the scoring role in the second unit making GH's role there less important. I'd rather see our best 5 players start the game at this point as our bench is still very deep and perhaps it won't always be necessary for the second unit to try to dig out of the hole the starters left them with!

Good stuff there.

I think corbin is figuring it out, in fact I think he knows a change needs to be made. I think he's probably worried about chemistry, the fact that marvin is starting is the only reason he's getting any minutes at all, moving him to the bench could quickly turn into a raja bell situation.

I also think that short term starting hayward makes the most sense, but when mo comes back I think DC is a better fit.

I also think we should mention the other vet taking minutes from DC, earl watson. Burks playing the two while watson plays point is taking minutes from DC, and I don't care how much we like him, when his absolute best effort can be summed up with, "at lest he didn't hurt us", it's time to go a different direction.


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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:20 pm

I put this in the wrong thread....Magnus, I HOPE you're right, that Corbin is aware. I'm really just not sure he is....

As you well know, I've been steamed about DC not starting since the playoffs last year. I honestly dont know what to say anymore....

Look, my mother used to tell me all the time, "if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten". Thats whats happening here. Some games, with Foye hitting 3's, and Al hitting down low etc, this team is able to cover for Marvin and you dont notice him. But last night was the perfect example of why DC should be starting over him. Caron Butler went off, Marvin did NOTHING to stop him at the other end. Caron Butler, seriously? Marvin is so useless that he isn't stopping his man, isn't scoring, isn't hitting 3's, isn't rebounding. There is NOTHING he is doing on the court to help this team. You telling me DC isn't a better defender than Marving? Because that was supposedly one of his strong suits.....So what you have is a double loss actually: with DC there are positives that are lost, and then Marv's negatives on top of that to double the negatives for this team. So this team is already working up hill at the SF spot. ITS NOT WORKING WITH MARVIN!!! The Clippers exposed that more than any game all year. The Jazz are NOT good enough to have a hole in the lineup. If Corbin didn't see that the 1st and 3rd quarters were carbon copies of BIG ASS, HUGE HOLES IN OUR LINEUP, then I dont know what game he's watching. We got smoked in the 1st and 3rd, there are obvious reasons why.

We saw it once the other unit came in. Some might have just looked at it as thank god Al is out and Paul went off. But IMO, it was more that Hayward/Burks/Fav came in and it was the effort on both ends that made that difference. Paul was great, hitting all those buckets in the second, but the difference maker was players that are contributing on both ends. Marvin and Foye (only bc he wasn't hitting 3's for once) were not giving this team anything. So all it takes is some guys that are active on both ends, and both times this team came back.

One HUGE thing I think: in the 3rd, Harpring started talking about Ty and his staff having to make some decisions. He spoke about how Marv isn't doing too well, Hayward is. And then to my delight, he said DC had been playing well. Thats a great great sign!! I'd imagine Harpring has at least a bit of insight to whats going on in there.......Marv has got to go. GOT TO GO. DC in Marv out. Keep Hayward as the 6th.

Oh, and btw. When Mo comes back, that brings another scorer/3pt shooter to balance the floor with Foye. Even MORE crucial to get Marvin out and DC in. Marv in at that point would be redundant and flat out stupid; missing DC intangiles/disrupting/hustle stuff would bury this team.

Burks. Dude is ready for those starter type minutes. I'm glad Ty was forced into playing him to see that
All it takes, is Marv to the bench, in a non-major role, if he comes off and hits great, DC starting. Burks and Hayward in as 6 and 7. Those guys are rolling. I loved Burks game. He was going up against CP3/Crawford, who are two of the best. They'll get their's, but he was right there defending them. Burks had an A+ game last night I thought.

Kanter is looking great too, very very solid. One thing to watch for. Kanter is making it his thing, to bait the opposing player up top, into thinking he's got him sealed, up there around the elbow/3pt line. When the pass comes in, he's tipping it away fairly often. It's becoming his thing, and it's a great play. Hah, now he just needs to grab it and get it to a guard.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:01 pm

When you have three starters that score 0 points, I think it's time for a change. I've been a Ty Corbin defender all season, but I am now starting to wonder what the man is thinking. There's no longer the excuse that the Jazz are showcasing players for a mid-season trade, and frankly the Jazz as a team don't care about the value of most of these players on the free agent market.

I wonder what the incentive would be in regard to Marv. Would they want to play him as much as possible, to show that the team has confidence in him, therefore convincing him to exercise his player option? Considering how poorly he has performed this year, that doesn't seem sensible. On the other hand, relegating him to a limited bench role might ultimately lead to the same result, since he will lower his value on the free agent market. Either way, it looks like the Jazz might be screwed into one more year of Marv.

As for DeMarre Carroll, it has been very sad to see him languish on the bench. Not only is the team not benefitting from his hustle and good production, it's also very possible at this point that DeMarre is being convinced that he has to walk at the end of the season. I can imagine a ton of other teams snapping him up in the free agent market, and DeMarre gladly wanting out of Utah because he sees that there is no future here for him. That's the most worrisome thing about this whole situation. I think we all love to see DeMarre play, with all the hustle and grit that he displays. Now, that might go away. How sad.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:23 pm

A buddy of mine was saying that he thinks the main reason Hayward is coming off the bench is because "Jefferson sucks the life out of Hayward", and Corbin, realizing this, has decided to play Hayward and Jefferson at separate times. Obviously their time overlaps, but he said that when Al is in the game, and the offense stagnates some, it takes Gordon out of his best game.
Have any of you witnessed this? I have also heard others mention this (maybe even on here) but I honestly haven't paid attention to that. Has anyone paid closer attention and can give insight?
This particular friend is "friends" with KOC as they are both active and participating members of the same Kiwanis club. I'm not saying he got this info from KOC, as he didnt say one way or another. But fom time to time he gives valuable insight that proves to be true.
Any thoughts on this? If this is indeed true, and if it has been noticed by the jazz organization, then I think that probably points to the jazz keeping Millsap over Jefferson so that Hayward can flourish. But maybe I'm reading too much into things.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:56 pm

The Voice of Reason wrote:
A buddy of mine was saying that he thinks the main reason Hayward is coming off the bench is because "Jefferson sucks the life out of Hayward", and Corbin, realizing this, has decided to play Hayward and Jefferson at separate times. Obviously their time overlaps, but he said that when Al is in the game, and the offense stagnates some, it takes Gordon out of his best game.
Have any of you witnessed this? I have also heard others mention this (maybe even on here) but I honestly haven't paid attention to that. Has anyone paid closer attention and can give insight?
This particular friend is "friends" with KOC as they are both active and participating members of the same Kiwanis club. I'm not saying he got this info from KOC, as he didnt say one way or another. But fom time to time he gives valuable insight that proves to be true.
Any thoughts on this? If this is indeed true, and if it has been noticed by the jazz organization, then I think that probably points to the jazz keeping Millsap over Jefferson so that Hayward can flourish. But maybe I'm reading too much into things.

I think Jefferson's offensive style of play sucks the life out of anyone who wants to be active without the ball. If you're willing to stand there, be patient and wait for the double and then pop a three, more like Randy Foye's game, then I can see that working. But a high energy player like GH who is going to be active and needs the ball in his hands, I can see why playing off of Jefferson would be frustrating.

That's why the 1990s Houston championship teams worked. They basically had Olajuwon and then 8 other rotation players who all stood at the three point line waiting for the ball. That's how they all made their living. That's why guys like Kenny Smith and Robert Horry have multiple championship rings.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:34 pm

I would rather see Hayward start and have DC get 20-25 at least off the bench. Marvin being a starter isn't working, matybe a change to coming off the bench might be better for him and the team.
Leading up to next year when I hope to see Burks and Hayward start with DC, Foye, and if he's here Marvin getting play in that order. I still think Foye is a big contributor for the Jazz and so is DC.
I probably wouldn't ever start DC just like there are pitchers that are way more valuable as closers.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:45 pm

Its a good point, DC thinking it's his time to go. But if Utah is stuck with Marvin for another year anyway, then lets start looking at who's more important to this team: is it Marv who we're hamstrung with anyway and who isn't producing, or is it DC who we could sign at a pretty good contract and helps this team immensely?

Lets play who's more important.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:49 pm

rorybreaker wrote:
I would rather see Hayward start and have DC get 20-25 at least off the bench. Marvin being a starter isn't working, matybe a change to coming off the bench might be better for him and the team.
Leading up to next year when I hope to see Burks and Hayward start with DC, Foye, and if he's here Marvin getting play in that order. I still think Foye is a big contributor for the Jazz and so is DC.
I probably wouldn't ever start DC just like there are pitchers that are way more valuable as closers.

I dont. Whoever it was above talking about they heard Hayward off the bench because Al sucks the life, is completely correct. Hayward is a great player because he is a facilitator, he finds openings to get guys the ball on the move, and on the other side, he's a guy that finds a way to get open. These are all opposite Al's game. He's fine and all, but as long as he's in Utah, it makes sense that GH would be most successful getting more of his minutes without Al.

Also, maybe thats true, and I think it's great: more likely to keep Paul because he and Gordo play much better with each other than Al. Actually, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. GREAT.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:04 pm

The Voice of Reason wrote:
A buddy of mine was saying that he thinks the main reason Hayward is coming off the bench is because "Jefferson sucks the life out of Hayward", and Corbin, realizing this, has decided to play Hayward and Jefferson at separate times. Obviously their time overlaps, but he said that when Al is in the game, and the offense stagnates some, it takes Gordon out of his best game.
Have any of you witnessed this? I have also heard others mention this (maybe even on here) but I honestly haven't paid attention to that. Has anyone paid closer attention and can give insight?
This particular friend is "friends" with KOC as they are both active and participating members of the same Kiwanis club. I'm not saying he got this info from KOC, as he didnt say one way or another. But fom time to time he gives valuable insight that proves to be true.
Any thoughts on this? If this is indeed true, and if it has been noticed by the jazz organization, then I think that probably points to the jazz keeping Millsap over Jefferson so that Hayward can flourish. But maybe I'm reading too much into things.

I witness this all the time, but it was especially bad when Mo was in the starting lineup because it made Hayward the 4th option. I think it would be better now that Tinsley is out there and they need a creator on that first unit, but Mo will be back soon and you will have to same situation as you did before.

I think the key for Hayward is to be able to get going as soon as he enters the game, so he can set an aggressive tone and then ride that through the game. Very tough to do that when you are the 3rd or 4th option in the offense. I honestly think that is also a big reason why Marvin has been so ineffective.

That is why I think with Mo coming back Carroll probably makes more sense as a starter. His game has exactly zero dependence on his role, he's going to go out and make opportunities for himself and do what he does regardless of whether Al and Mo are dominating the ball or not.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:21 pm

There's no way that a head coach in the NBA, and former player, doesn't know this, and we do. No way.

I'm thinking its a case of hide DC this year, because they have all these decisions this summer, and want to get a solid contract on sale for DC. Hide him till next year.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:47 pm

Mutangclan wrote:
There's no way that a head coach in the NBA, and former player, doesn't know this, and we do. No way.

I'm thinking its a case of hide DC this year, because they have all these decisions this summer, and want to get a solid contract on sale for DC. Hide him till next year.

If that's what the Jazz brass are thinking, they really are idiots. They can't hide the value of DC by putting him on the bench. He's already made his value known to too many teams with his great play, and all you have to do is crunch some numbers like some of our board stat geeks have done to see that DC is a huge potential asset in the NBA.

That combined with the fact that benching DC would probably piss him off enough that he would seek greener pastures means that benching him makes no sense.

So one must ask again, why is he being benched?
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:50 pm

Mutangclan wrote:
There's no way that a head coach in the NBA, and former player, doesn't know this, and we do. No way.

I'm thinking its a case of hide DC this year, because they have all these decisions this summer, and want to get a solid contract on sale for DC. Hide him till next year.

I think it is more about Marvin and DC on the court than it is about DC off the court. I think Corbin probably feels like the Jazz will be better in the long run, especially come playoff time, if they can get Marvin going. I think he overvalues his experience and consistency on the defensive end, and I think he undervalues DC's disruptive hustle contributions because they can be exploited at times and his offense because it's sometimes not real pretty.

These are all classic "coaching wisdom" tendencies, and I think a coach that places more value in analytics would probably have made some adjustments sooner. However, and this is the reason I think a change is coming, I think the product on the court and the stage we are at in the season is beginning to create a situation where Corbin realizes that his hope that Marvin can become what he should be isn't going to materialize and he's going to have to go with what is actually working. I feel like this last game was a tipping point, at least I hope it was, and I think we should see a change soon.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:55 pm

thejazzkickazz wrote:


If that's what the Jazz brass are thinking, they really are idiots. They can't hide the value of DC by putting him on the bench. He's already made his value known to too many teams with his great play, and all you have to do is crunch some numbers like some of our board stat geeks have done to see that DC is a huge potential asset in the NBA.

That combined with the fact that benching DC would probably piss him off enough that he would seek greener pastures means that benching him makes no sense.

So one must ask again, why is he being benched?

I agree with all of this.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:47 am

TheMagnus wrote:

These are all classic "coaching wisdom" tendencies, and I think a coach that places more value in analytics would probably have made some adjustments sooner. However, and this is the reason I think a change is coming, I think the product on the court and the stage we are at in the season is beginning to create a situation where Corbin realizes that his hope that Marvin can become what he should be isn't going to materialize and he's going to have to go with what is actually working. I feel like this last game was a tipping point, at least I hope it was, and I think we should see a change soon.

Local news this morning indicates Corbin is considering a roster change - nice call Mags. I just hope that if it involves DC starting Ty shows a modicum of the same patience he has shown with Marv, i.e if DC doesn't overwhelm give the dude a chance to settle in. Per an earlier set of posts, I'm now in agreement that GH probably shouldn't start given the less than stellar dynamics of ball movement with Big Al in the game, demoting GH to the 3rd/4th option. (Flip side of that argument though is the adage, "Start your best five players" and as team, figure out how to get all five guys involved).

Weird unlikely thought of the morning...Burks starting at the PG? Really, what other roster adjustments are even remotely possible? Its either starting GH, DC, or Burks, no one else is indicated for the role.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:53 am

MTJazz wrote:
TheMagnus wrote:

These are all classic "coaching wisdom" tendencies, and I think a coach that places more value in analytics would probably have made some adjustments sooner. However, and this is the reason I think a change is coming, I think the product on the court and the stage we are at in the season is beginning to create a situation where Corbin realizes that his hope that Marvin can become what he should be isn't going to materialize and he's going to have to go with what is actually working. I feel like this last game was a tipping point, at least I hope it was, and I think we should see a change soon.

Local news this morning indicates Corbin is considering a roster change - nice call Mags. I just hope that if it involves DC starting Ty shows a modicum of the same patience he has shown with Marv, i.e if DC doesn't overwhelm give the dude a chance to settle in. Per an earlier set of posts, I'm now in agreement that GH probably shouldn't start given the less than stellar dynamics of ball movement with Big Al in the game, demoting GH to the 3rd/4th option. (Flip side of that argument though is the adage, "Start your best five players" and as team, figure out how to get all five guys involved).

Weird unlikely thought of the morning...Burks starting at the PG? Really, what other roster adjustments are even remotely possible? Its either starting GH, DC, or Burks, no one else is indicated for the role.

Ya, should be interesting.

Starting Burks instead of Tinsley would be an interesting call, but I hope it would move Tinsley to the backup role because he's better than Watson.

After thinking about it a bit more, I think the guy I'd really like to see benched entirely is Watson regardless of who starts.

If I had it my way I'd start DC for Marvin, make Burks the full time backup PG, and when Mo came back I'd keep Burks were he was and sit Tinsley. The depth chart would be 11 deep and would look like this...

PG: Mo, Burks, Tinsley
SG: Foye, Hayward, Burks
SF: DC, Hayward, Marvin, Millsap
PF: Millsap, Favors, Marvin
C: Jefferson, Kanter, Favors

I'd like to see Corbin try some Burks/Hayward/Marvin lineups, just to see if that works, because notionally I think it could be very very good.
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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:35 pm

Kurt Kragthorpe, writing in the Trib today, lobbies to start Hayward while not even mentioning DC as a potential starter or a key bench player. He mentions Marvin as a potential offensive leader for the second unit. Imo, this article just shows once again how big "play the contract" influences persons' views of who should play, including writers and many coaches.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/55896032-87/jazz-williams-hayward-sltrib.html.csp

GS stopped their fall and have re-opened a two game lead. The Lakers have won three in a row. The outcome of every game is starting to loom large. Its time to play our combinations that are most likely to win now, and imho, that means DC starting and Hayward continuing to successfully lead the second unit.



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PostSubject: Re: DC Deserves His Own Thread   Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:36 pm

TheMagnus wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:
There's no way that a head coach in the NBA, and former player, doesn't know this, and we do. No way.

I'm thinking its a case of hide DC this year, because they have all these decisions this summer, and want to get a solid contract on sale for DC. Hide him till next year.

I think it is more about Marvin and DC on the court than it is about DC off the court. I think Corbin probably feels like the Jazz will be better in the long run, especially come playoff time, if they can get Marvin going. I think he overvalues his experience and consistency on the defensive end, and I think he undervalues DC's disruptive hustle contributions because they can be exploited at times and his offense because it's sometimes not real pretty.

These are all classic "coaching wisdom" tendencies, and I think a coach that places more value in analytics would probably have made some adjustments sooner. However, and this is the reason I think a change is coming, I think the product on the court and the stage we are at in the season is beginning to create a situation where Corbin realizes that his hope that Marvin can become what he should be isn't going to materialize and he's going to have to go with what is actually working. I feel like this last game was a tipping point, at least I hope it was, and I think we should see a change soon.

Yes, to all this. I definitely found myself shaking my head in agreement Mag. What bothers me is Corbin is not able to see it for what it is, verses what he hopes will happen. One other thing that should have shown Corbin that it's time to make that move, is that if you guys remember, when DC is open on the 3pt line, he usually knocks it down. So there is the last line of defense to play Marv over DC.

I did get the same feeling though, that the Clip game was a tipping point.

Adjusting the lineup, it's gotta be GH/DC. I can't imagine he's thinking of going big 3 now, Favors has been good not great, but with Corbin's history, I almost feel like he'll finally identify the problem, and then make the completely ridiculous move to counter it, like Fav in, or moving Gordo from 6th where he's been awesome.

I'm with you on leaving Burks as the backup PG, minutes and experience for him, and athleticism, ft's, defense for us. I'd like to see Gordo/Burks/Marv too out there as a back up unit. It fits ideally into what Marv has become, and thats a spotup, stand alone 3pt shooter.
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