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 Change.org Fire Coach T

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Romoholic
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:26 pm

I fully intend on supporting Ty and the jazz just as much as I always do. I do think Ty can be a good coach, but he took over the team at the worst possible time.

I don't agree with a lot of his moves or coaching decisions, but I also know I couldn't do 1/2 as well as he does. I don't know that I want him back, but it looks like he will be. So I'll support him and hope he evolves as a coach and the front office gives him the tools he needs to be successfully.

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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:03 pm

Quote :
Corbin has full support of Jazz ownership, Lindsey says

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsjazznotes/56181639-62/lindsey-jazz-coach-corbin.html.csp

Check out some of the comments following that article. Some of those fans are so mad they are giving up on the Jazz completely!!

thejazzkickazz wrote:
Speaking of ex-assistant coach Phil Johnson, Ty Corbin should seriously, SERIOUSLY consider hiring him as an assistant coach for next season. Coach Ty really didn't have that kind of veteran coaching presence on his bench this season, and it kinda showed. He could really, REALLY use Phil Johnson sitting next to him this season as a mentor and stabilizing force for the team on the court.

I really hope someone thinks about this before the next season starts. Phil needs to be on that bench!

Phil needs to be back on that bench in the number one position with Ty in the third position. cheers

VoiceofReason wrote:
....his record did improve from last year.

Nope. 545 win percentage last season; 524 win percentage this season. But Lindsey and KOC say Coach Corbin is growing, so I guess we will just see what happens. Maybe Ty will have a breakthrough his third full year. With the roster he is likely to have, he should.

On another note, from that article above it sounds like the decision to keep Ty may be more of a Miller family decision and/or KOC decision than a Lindsey decision. Ty has the best head coaching job in the NBA. Jeff or Stan Van Gundy would give their left testicle to be in a coaching situation like this that comes gift wrapped with unconditional owner support. Those guys both coached teams all the way to the NBA Finals and still lost their jobs.
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:44 am

I'm definitely over trying to show or prove a point on how terrible I think Tyrone is, but it's interesting now to see how many other "respected" (hated) columnists are seeing the same things.

Like him or hate him, Bill Simmons is a basketball writing junkie. He is all about it. His exact words were, when speaking about how much he likes Alec Burks "(puzzlingly buried by the wildly incompetent Ty Corbin)". I like that, wildly incompetent. I never disliked Tyrone, I just think he is a terrible coach. I've only ever railed against two Jazz members, and so far I'm batting a 1000 (CJ Miles Smile. And sadly I dont think I'm wrong a bit about Tyrone.

Which brings me to it: I dont think it's a done deal that Tyrone stays. Everyone is saying the right things, but so far, there is nothing concrete at all. Nobody said Tyrone was going to be here for the 2013-14 season. They said things like "Corbin has the backing of management", which sure is great, but I for one am still very much holding out hope, and belief that they'll see he's got to go. If nothing else, so that another year of growth is not stunted for our young bucks.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9186204/nba-trade-value-column-part-1
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:14 am

Mutangclan wrote:
I'm definitely over trying to show or prove a point on how terrible I think Tyrone is, but it's interesting now to see how many other "respected" (hated) columnists are seeing the same things.

Like him or hate him, Bill Simmons is a basketball writing junkie. He is all about it. His exact words were, when speaking about how much he likes Alec Burks "(puzzlingly buried by the wildly incompetent Ty Corbin)". I like that, wildly incompetent. I never disliked Tyrone, I just think he is a terrible coach. I've only ever railed against two Jazz members, and so far I'm batting a 1000 (CJ Miles Smile. And sadly I dont think I'm wrong a bit about Tyrone.

Which brings me to it: I dont think it's a done deal that Tyrone stays. Everyone is saying the right things, but so far, there is nothing concrete at all. Nobody said Tyrone was going to be here for the 2013-14 season. They said things like "Corbin has the backing of management", which sure is great, but I for one am still very much holding out hope, and belief that they'll see he's got to go. If nothing else, so that another year of growth is not stunted for our young bucks.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9186204/nba-trade-value-column-part-1

I think it's a done deal.

Dennis Lindsey at locker-room clean-out day...

Quote :

Q:How do you evaluate Tyrone Corbin and what is his status?

DL: Status is, is Ty’s our coach, and has the Miller family’s full support…Ty is, one, the right person to lead us. Two, he’s really growing as a coach.

Plus, if he was going to be fired it would have already happened, no sense in waiting to make that change.
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:41 am

Keep shattering my hopes and dreams Magnus....
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:49 pm

Mutangclan wrote:
Keep shattering my hopes and dreams Magnus....


we need to hope he really grows this off season and comes back more prepared to lead us deap into the playoffs. Hopeing for a new coach is not gonna go down so lets hope he grows from years past. Hang in there Tang.
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:09 pm

Crunchtime1 wrote:
Quote :
Corbin has full support of Jazz ownership, Lindsey says

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsjazznotes/56181639-62/lindsey-jazz-coach-corbin.html.csp

Check out some of the comments following that article. Some of those fans are so mad they are giving up on the Jazz completely!!

thejazzkickazz wrote:
Speaking of ex-assistant coach Phil Johnson, Ty Corbin should seriously, SERIOUSLY consider hiring him as an assistant coach for next season. Coach Ty really didn't have that kind of veteran coaching presence on his bench this season, and it kinda showed. He could really, REALLY use Phil Johnson sitting next to him this season as a mentor and stabilizing force for the team on the court.

I really hope someone thinks about this before the next season starts. Phil needs to be on that bench!

Phil needs to be back on that bench in the number one position with Ty in the third position. cheers

VoiceofReason wrote:
....his record did improve from last year.

Nope. 545 win percentage last season; 524 win percentage this season. But Lindsey and KOC say Coach Corbin is growing, so I guess we will just see what happens. Maybe Ty will have a breakthrough his third full year. With the roster he is likely to have, he should.

On another note, from that article above it sounds like the decision to keep Ty may be more of a Miller family decision and/or KOC decision than a Lindsey decision. Ty has the best head coaching job in the NBA. Jeff or Stan Van Gundy would give their left testicle to be in a coaching situation like this that comes gift wrapped with unconditional owner support. Those guys both coached teams all the way to the NBA Finals and still lost their jobs.

I forgot to take into consideration I suck at math.

Was just looking at overall wins. Forgot last season was a lockout shortened season...nice catch.
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:01 pm

The Voice of Reason wrote:
Crunchtime1 wrote:
Quote :
Corbin has full support of Jazz ownership, Lindsey says

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsjazznotes/56181639-62/lindsey-jazz-coach-corbin.html.csp

Check out some of the comments following that article. Some of those fans are so mad they are giving up on the Jazz completely!!

thejazzkickazz wrote:
Speaking of ex-assistant coach Phil Johnson, Ty Corbin should seriously, SERIOUSLY consider hiring him as an assistant coach for next season. Coach Ty really didn't have that kind of veteran coaching presence on his bench this season, and it kinda showed. He could really, REALLY use Phil Johnson sitting next to him this season as a mentor and stabilizing force for the team on the court.

I really hope someone thinks about this before the next season starts. Phil needs to be on that bench!

Phil needs to be back on that bench in the number one position with Ty in the third position. cheers

VoiceofReason wrote:
....his record did improve from last year.

Nope. 545 win percentage last season; 524 win percentage this season. But Lindsey and KOC say Coach Corbin is growing, so I guess we will just see what happens. Maybe Ty will have a breakthrough his third full year. With the roster he is likely to have, he should.

On another note, from that article above it sounds like the decision to keep Ty may be more of a Miller family decision and/or KOC decision than a Lindsey decision. Ty has the best head coaching job in the NBA. Jeff or Stan Van Gundy would give their left testicle to be in a coaching situation like this that comes gift wrapped with unconditional owner support. Those guys both coached teams all the way to the NBA Finals and still lost their jobs.

I forgot to take into consideration I suck at math.

Was just looking at overall wins. Forgot last season was a lockout shortened season...nice catch.

However, I will say this (in my defense). While their overall record did not improve...I do think the team did improve. Individuals improved. Problem is, the likes of Houston and Golden State improved more than we did.
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:37 pm

The Voice of Reason wrote:

However, I will say this (in my defense). While their overall record did not improve...I do think the team did improve. Individuals improved. Problem is, the likes of Houston and Golden State improved more than we did.

I'm going to mildy disagree here. As was universally agreed on before the season started, the team actually had more overall talent (especially considering the further development of the Core 4) this year than last year, but still managed a worse winning % & missed the playoffs.

I think the team took a step back.
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:52 pm

zero24gravity wrote:
The Voice of Reason wrote:

However, I will say this (in my defense). While their overall record did not improve...I do think the team did improve. Individuals improved. Problem is, the likes of Houston and Golden State improved more than we did.

I'm going to mildy disagree here. As was universally agreed on before the season started, the team actually had more overall talent (especially considering the further development of the Core 4) this year than last year, but still managed a worse winning % & missed the playoffs.

I think the team took a step back.

Perhaps they took a step back...but perhaps the other teams just took a bigger step forward? (Is there a difference?)

Players like Burks, Kanter, Favors...even Hayward I think all improved, which for this team (especially starting next year) is a step in the right direction.
I think Mo, Al, Foye and Marvin kind of stifled even further growth...but I think individual parts improved some, while the team collectively "took a step back".

I honestly believe that next year we are going to see good things.

I just reread this entire post. It sounds like I am drunk. Not even I am quite sure what I'm trying to say. But I'm going to post it anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:19 pm

The Voice of Reason wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:
The Voice of Reason wrote:

However, I will say this (in my defense). While their overall record did not improve...I do think the team did improve. Individuals improved. Problem is, the likes of Houston and Golden State improved more than we did.

I'm going to mildy disagree here. As was universally agreed on before the season started, the team actually had more overall talent (especially considering the further development of the Core 4) this year than last year, but still managed a worse winning % & missed the playoffs.

I think the team took a step back.

Perhaps they took a step back...but perhaps the other teams just took a bigger step forward? (Is there a difference?)

Players like Burks, Kanter, Favors...even Hayward I think all improved, which for this team (especially starting next year) is a step in the right direction.
I think Mo, Al, Foye and Marvin kind of stifled even further growth...but I think individual parts improved some, while the team collectively "took a step back".

I honestly believe that next year we are going to see good things.

I just reread this entire post. It sounds like I am drunk. Not even I am quite sure what I'm trying to say. But I'm going to post it anyway.

I suppose that "progress" could be dependent on your point of view.

For example:

Did the young guys take step forward? Yes. So that's better for the team & makes the future seem brighter, and possibly means better things moving forward, right? = progress.

Did the team win at a higher % or move father into the playoffs? No. = step back

Depends on what criteria you use to evaluate the team getting "better".
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:27 pm

zero24gravity wrote:
The Voice of Reason wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:
The Voice of Reason wrote:

However, I will say this (in my defense). While their overall record did not improve...I do think the team did improve. Individuals improved. Problem is, the likes of Houston and Golden State improved more than we did.

I'm going to mildy disagree here. As was universally agreed on before the season started, the team actually had more overall talent (especially considering the further development of the Core 4) this year than last year, but still managed a worse winning % & missed the playoffs.

I think the team took a step back.

Perhaps they took a step back...but perhaps the other teams just took a bigger step forward? (Is there a difference?)

Players like Burks, Kanter, Favors...even Hayward I think all improved, which for this team (especially starting next year) is a step in the right direction.
I think Mo, Al, Foye and Marvin kind of stifled even further growth...but I think individual parts improved some, while the team collectively "took a step back".

I honestly believe that next year we are going to see good things.

I just reread this entire post. It sounds like I am drunk. Not even I am quite sure what I'm trying to say. But I'm going to post it anyway.

I suppose that "progress" could be dependent on your point of view.

For example:

Did the young guys take step forward? Yes. So that's better for the team & makes the future seem brighter, and possibly means better things moving forward, right? = progress.

Did the team win at a higher % or move father into the playoffs? No. = step back

Depends on what criteria you use to evaluate the team getting "better".

That is exactly what I was meaning. Obviously making playoffs last year and falling short this year is not present tense progress. Lower winning percentage this year than last is not present tense progress.
I was referring to the overall progress the team made (possibly and seemingly) looking ahead to next year.
I probably did a poor job of clarifying that...but you cleaned it up for me. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:16 pm

By way of muddying things back up, we might take into consderation the 'what if's and 'might have beens'...what if the Jazz had played the young guys more? What if Corbin didn't have to placate veterans looking for their next contract? What if we didn't have to play Big Al so much? (meaning we had to pretend Marvin was a full-time 3pt fencepost, a role for which he is apparently much less suited than the others he has tried out in the league.)

Hell, what if it was any team other than the Lakers battling us for the 8th spot? Pretty sure we'd have made it.
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:28 pm

Romoholic wrote:
I fully intend on supporting Ty and the jazz just as much as I always do. I do think Ty can be a good coach, but he took over the team at the worst possible time.

I don't agree with a lot of his moves or coaching decisions, but I also know I couldn't do 1/2 as well as he does. I don't know that I want him back, but it looks like he will be. So I'll support him and hope he evolves as a coach and the front office gives him the tools he needs to be successfully.

It's easy to say we hope he evolves without defining exactlywhat we'd like him to evolve into (or from).

Crunchtime1 wrote:
Quote :
Corbin has full support of Jazz ownership, Lindsey says

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsjazznotes/56181639-62/lindsey-jazz-coach-corbin.html.csp

Check out some of the comments following that article. Some of those fans are so mad they are giving up on the Jazz completely!!

Victims of their own stupidity. (They aren't going anywhere anyway.)

Crunchtime1 wrote:
[Nope. 545 win percentage last season; 524 win percentage this season.

Irrelevant. No coach constantly improves every single season as if the game is played in a vacuum.

Crunchtime1 wrote:
But Lindsey and KOC say Coach Corbin is growing, so I guess we will just see what happens. Maybe Ty will have a breakthrough his third full year. With the roster he is likely to have, he should.

Set yourself up for disappointment much? If Corbin has a young squad next season like Portland-Charlotte had this season then he's going to have results like Portland-Charlotte. But "breakthrough" will still be in the mouths of fans who want something they cannot define, delineate, or defend.

Mutangclan wrote:
I'm definitely over trying to show or prove a point on how terrible I think Tyrone is, but it's interesting now to see how many other "respected" (hated) columnists are seeing the same things.

Like him or hate him, Bill Simmons is a basketball writing junkie. He is all about it. His exact words were, when speaking about how much he likes Alec Burks "(puzzlingly buried by the wildly incompetent Ty Corbin)".

Burks homerism is the cutest of all Jazz fan fallacies. At least he's no Morris Almond. At least Corbin was able to develop something out of nothing where Sloan wasn't (with Almond).
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:27 pm

Professo_Sloan wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:
I'm definitely over trying to show or prove a point on how terrible I think Tyrone is, but it's interesting now to see how many other "respected" (hated) columnists are seeing the same things.

Like him or hate him, Bill Simmons is a basketball writing junkie. He is all about it. His exact words were, when speaking about how much he likes Alec Burks "(puzzlingly buried by the wildly incompetent Ty Corbin)".

Burks homerism is the cutest of all Jazz fan fallacies. At least he's no Morris Almond. At least Corbin was able to develop something out of nothing where Sloan wasn't (with Almond).

Gee. Looky there. Professo is back, thats nice. Popping in to pick and choose folks you want to disparage, without actually saying anything at all again? Cool.

If you actually paid attention, you would see it is not homerism. It is comparing Burks to Tinsley or Watson. Its a no-brainer.

Hahahaha, you think CORBIN developed Burks??? Hah. Thats rich.
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:19 pm

Mutangclan wrote:

Gee. Looky there. Professo is back, thats nice. Popping in to pick and choose folks you want to disparage, without actually saying anything at all again? Cool.

If you actually paid attention, you would see it is not homerism. It is comparing Burks to Tinsley or Watson. Its a no-brainer.

Hahahaha, you think CORBIN developed Burks??? Hah. Thats rich.

Yeah, that IS rich. Burks saw minutes because Mo was out, period, and he clearly could outplay Tinsley or Watson. Ty was forced into it. Otherwise he would have rotted on the end of the bench like Evans. I think most but not all on this board see Burks for what he is - could be a good bench guy in the league a long time or a starter on a desperate team. The Jazz have a Core Three, not Four. And at that, maybe a Core 2. (Magnus, insert reply on how awesome Favors and how no one but you see how good he is and sky high potential here________________). GH and Kanter are not even players you build around, they are the ones you keep as awesome pieces. Wake me up when GH and Kanter lead this team into the playoffs with lesser caliber talents around them. They can, however, become critical pieces in a starting five that does do that. Jazz are short on help, and I do agree with Professo that Ty needs to get ready for some serious losing for awhile unless the FO comes up with some magic.
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:44 pm

MTJazz wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:

Gee. Looky there. Professo is back, thats nice. Popping in to pick and choose folks you want to disparage, without actually saying anything at all again? Cool.

If you actually paid attention, you would see it is not homerism. It is comparing Burks to Tinsley or Watson. Its a no-brainer.

Hahahaha, you think CORBIN developed Burks??? Hah. Thats rich.

Yeah, that IS rich. Burks saw minutes because Mo was out, period, and he clearly could outplay Tinsley or Watson. Ty was forced into it. Otherwise he would have rotted on the end of the bench like Evans. I think most but not all on this board see Burks for what he is - could be a good bench guy in the league a long time or a starter on a desperate team. The Jazz have a Core Three, not Four. And at that, maybe a Core 2. (Magnus, insert reply on how awesome Favors and how no one but you see how good he is and sky high potential here________________). GH and Kanter are not even players you build around, they are the ones you keep as awesome pieces. Wake me up when GH and Kanter lead this team into the playoffs with lesser caliber talents around them. They can, however, become critical pieces in a starting five that does do that. Jazz are short on help, and I do agree with Professo that Ty needs to get ready for some serious losing for awhile unless the FO comes up with some magic.

See, I still think you are setting the ceiling too low, for all of them. I think the core 3 you talked about could turn out to be a "Big 3" on a contender, and I think Burks could develop into a very nice complementary player. I simply cannot stress enough what a huge factor age plays in the current performance and future potential of all of these guys.

I mean, setting aside who they are now for a minute, lets talk about what they could be, and how that fits with a contending team.

We may have...

1)Dynamic All-Star calliber wing creator that can shoot, pass, drive, and defend multiple positions.

2)An elite 6'11" post scorer that is a strong defender and rebounder.

3)An elite 6'11" paint protector that alters the game with his athleticism and defense and can efficiently score on offence.


Three years from now that could very easily be what we have, and you cannot tell me that is not a solid base for a contender.
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:53 pm

100% agree with Magnus on the age issue. Not only are they all still babies, and not even remotely close to their peak, but they all have also gotten better every year, and all, ALL FOUR of them will be better than they are now. Do you all realize how good that is?

I believe we have 3 players in Fav/Kanter/GH (maybe Burks too) who can all reach the level of say......... a healthy Ty Lawson, or Brook Lopez. Are either of them Superstars? No. Are both of them extremely good players and borderline All Stars every year? Absolutely. Would any team in the league be ECSTATIC to have 3 players of that caliber?? ABSOLUTELY. Thats how you build a team that can compete with the best, without a Superstar.
And Burks could be that 4th complimentary player/slasher/scorer that gets to the rim when he wants. That balances out a core of 4.
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:02 pm

TheMagnus wrote:
MTJazz wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:

Gee. Looky there. Professo is back, thats nice. Popping in to pick and choose folks you want to disparage, without actually saying anything at all again? Cool.

If you actually paid attention, you would see it is not homerism. It is comparing Burks to Tinsley or Watson. Its a no-brainer.

Hahahaha, you think CORBIN developed Burks??? Hah. Thats rich.

Yeah, that IS rich. Burks saw minutes because Mo was out, period, and he clearly could outplay Tinsley or Watson. Ty was forced into it. Otherwise he would have rotted on the end of the bench like Evans. I think most but not all on this board see Burks for what he is - could be a good bench guy in the league a long time or a starter on a desperate team. The Jazz have a Core Three, not Four. And at that, maybe a Core 2. (Magnus, insert reply on how awesome Favors and how no one but you see how good he is and sky high potential here________________). GH and Kanter are not even players you build around, they are the ones you keep as awesome pieces. Wake me up when GH and Kanter lead this team into the playoffs with lesser caliber talents around them. They can, however, become critical pieces in a starting five that does do that. Jazz are short on help, and I do agree with Professo that Ty needs to get ready for some serious losing for awhile unless the FO comes up with some magic.

See, I still think you are setting the ceiling too low, for all of them. I think the core 3 you talked about could turn out to be a "Big 3" on a contender, and I think Burks could develop into a very nice complementary player. I simply cannot stress enough what a huge factor age plays in the current performance and future potential of all of these guys.

I mean, setting aside who they are now for a minute, lets talk about what they could be, and how that fits with a contending team.

We may have...

1)Dynamic All-Star calliber wing creator that can shoot, pass, drive, and defend multiple positions.

2)An elite 6'11" post scorer that is a strong defender and rebounder.

3)An elite 6'11" paint protector that alters the game with his athleticism and defense and can efficiently score on offence.


Three years from now that could very easily be what we have, and you cannot tell me that is not a solid base for a contender.

I think Favors could lead league in starter time for blocks As for Enes we've see only a tip of the iceburg on this kid. before he is done he'll have three point range with a top post up game. The only three he tride this year was smooth as butter behind the line. Spells nighmare to gaurd in that 6 11 frame? Realy no allstar here? Thats freaking crazy talk.That will be one of the best front courts in the game for years to come!One maybe two key players then strenthen our bench little more. I like to think it gonna be big five with DC and his play was crazy anytime he got any playing time he showed he could start.


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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:19 pm

May be we should wait until Favors and Kanter actually carry the neccesary load of minutes night in and night out to make any assertion about how close or away they are from an All Star.
First we need to know if they can carry those minutes every game without comsequences; then we need if they can adapt their games when their defenders take tkem out of their tricks and comfort zones... that's too much to see before any judgement can be done.

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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:21 pm

TheMagnus wrote:

See, I still think you are setting the ceiling too low, for all of them. I think the core 3 you talked about could turn out to be a "Big 3" on a contender, and I think Burks could develop into a very nice complementary player. I simply cannot stress enough what a huge factor age plays in the current performance and future potential of all of these guys.

I mean, setting aside who they are now for a minute, lets talk about what they could be, and how that fits with a contending team.

We may have...

1)Dynamic All-Star calliber wing creator that can shoot, pass, drive, and defend multiple positions.

2)An elite 6'11" post scorer that is a strong defender and rebounder.

3)An elite 6'11" paint protector that alters the game with his athleticism and defense and can efficiently score on offence.


Three years from now that could very easily be what we have, and you cannot tell me that is not a solid base for a contender.

Well, that certainly is one valid potential outcome, one I would be excited about. It is a guessing game though, isn't it? We have no idea actually where those guys ceilings are, just guesses. The one thing we know is that if they get really really good as time goes by it was because they actually did have the Big P, potential, a good system and coaching to bring out there best. However, the league is filled with guys with the Big P who for whatever reasons peak out short of hopes and wishes and still make a very nice living as ho-hum starters or bench rotation dudes who aren't taking their team anywhere deep. And, the Jazz have a crappy coach. For me it just isn't obvious our Core 3-4 has the mojo when one takes off the homer hope glasses. Its not like the more objective league press/writers are all saying, "Look the F-out, the Jazz are gonna be seriously dangerous when they build around their Core 4." I'm sure one can hunt and peck to validate a point of view but most of what I've been reading is the Jazz are in seriously uncharted territory and not likely threatening any playoff magic in the West very soon without some major adds. So, I'm all about giving the Core 3-4 extensions, keep them together, start cultivating more young talent and home grow them and see if it adds up. Just sayin' though, a bonafide All-star could go a long way towards a return to relevancy.
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:25 pm

Richardale wrote:
TheMagnus wrote:
MTJazz wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:

Gee. Looky there. Professo is back, thats nice. Popping in to pick and choose folks you want to disparage, without actually saying anything at all again? Cool.

If you actually paid attention, you would see it is not homerism. It is comparing Burks to Tinsley or Watson. Its a no-brainer.

Hahahaha, you think CORBIN developed Burks??? Hah. Thats rich.

Yeah, that IS rich. Burks saw minutes because Mo was out, period, and he clearly could outplay Tinsley or Watson. Ty was forced into it. Otherwise he would have rotted on the end of the bench like Evans. I think most but not all on this board see Burks for what he is - could be a good bench guy in the league a long time or a starter on a desperate team. The Jazz have a Core Three, not Four. And at that, maybe a Core 2. (Magnus, insert reply on how awesome Favors and how no one but you see how good he is and sky high potential here________________). GH and Kanter are not even players you build around, they are the ones you keep as awesome pieces. Wake me up when GH and Kanter lead this team into the playoffs with lesser caliber talents around them. They can, however, become critical pieces in a starting five that does do that. Jazz are short on help, and I do agree with Professo that Ty needs to get ready for some serious losing for awhile unless the FO comes up with some magic.

See, I still think you are setting the ceiling too low, for all of them. I think the core 3 you talked about could turn out to be a "Big 3" on a contender, and I think Burks could develop into a very nice complementary player. I simply cannot stress enough what a huge factor age plays in the current performance and future potential of all of these guys.

I mean, setting aside who they are now for a minute, lets talk about what they could be, and how that fits with a contending team.

We may have...

1)Dynamic All-Star calliber wing creator that can shoot, pass, drive, and defend multiple positions.

2)An elite 6'11" post scorer that is a strong defender and rebounder.

3)An elite 6'11" paint protector that alters the game with his athleticism and defense and can efficiently score on offence.


Three years from now that could very easily be what we have, and you cannot tell me that is not a solid base for a contender.

I think Favors could lead league in starter time for blocks As for Enes we've see only a tip of the iceburg on this kid. before he is done he'll have three point range with a top post up game. The only three he tride this year was smooth as butter behind the line. Spells nighmare to gaurd in that 6 11 frame? Realy no allstar here? Thats freaking crazy talk.That will be one of the best front courts in the game for years to come!One maybe two key players then strenthen our bench little more. I like to think it gonna be big five with DC and his play was crazy anytime he got any playing time he showed he could start.
Need my loritab spell check on this one. lol
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:55 pm

MTJazz wrote:

Well, that certainly is one valid potential outcome, one I would be excited about. It is a guessing game though, isn't it? We have no idea actually where those guys ceilings are, just guesses. The one thing we know is that if they get really really good as time goes by it was because they actually did have the Big P, potential, a good system and coaching to bring out there best. However, the league is filled with guys with the Big P who for whatever reasons peak out short of hopes and wishes and still make a very nice living as ho-hum starters or bench rotation dudes who aren't taking their team anywhere deep. And, the Jazz have a crappy coach. For me it just isn't obvious our Core 3-4 has the mojo when one takes off the homer hope glasses. Its not like the more objective league press/writers are all saying, "Look the F-out, the Jazz are gonna be seriously dangerous when they build around their Core 4." I'm sure one can hunt and peck to validate a point of view but most of what I've been reading is the Jazz are in seriously uncharted territory and not likely threatening any playoff magic in the West very soon without some major adds. So, I'm all about giving the Core 3-4 extensions, keep them together, start cultivating more young talent and home grow them and see if it adds up. Just sayin' though, a bonafide All-star could go a long way towards a return to relevancy.

Well, I mean, yes and no. First off, all we have is our fandom and opinions. On the other hand some folks have a good eye for talent, and some dont. I can only speak for myself, but there's only a few players I've ever talked about in depth good or bad. And we do love our opinions cheers

The first was CJ Miles, and I couldn't stand him since his rookie year. Said he's never going to get it. And at this point, few could argue I was wrong.

Gordo's rookie year, I went on record as saying he was a very good pick, he was going to turn out to be a very good player for this team, a STUD, and would never be looked at as a bust. Calgary and others called me a homer and clueless. Can we agree I was correct?

UnderKanter. In the Eurogames while watching him play right after getting drafted, and Calgary was saying he would be a bust, again I went on record as saying he was a great pick. That he was going to be a STUD, that I thought he'd turn out to be a beast for this team and I loved the pick. Others and of course especially Calgary again told me I was clueless and a homer, that Enes was going to be a bust or that we really dont have a clue.

My point is, I trust me Laughing haha.
I dont think it's a guessing game necessarily, that I've already seen some really good things as soon as those guys hit the court. We may not know the ceilings, but this core is a solid, solid, PHENOMENAL start. And IMO, it's got 3 guarantees to starters for their careers with All Star ballots with their names every year. Add one more player, and this team is ready to roll.

And, it's already been said about Gordo. EVERY ex-player announcing loves him and his game, he's been talked about glowingly for quite awhile. And for the bigs, they are talking about them, and have been actually:
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nba/43108/266/next-years-risers
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PostSubject: Re: Change.org Fire Coach T   Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:27 pm

Mutangclan wrote:
MTJazz wrote:

Well, that certainly is one valid potential outcome, one I would be excited about. It is a guessing game though, isn't it? We have no idea actually where those guys ceilings are, just guesses. The one thing we know is that if they get really really good as time goes by it was because they actually did have the Big P, potential, a good system and coaching to bring out there best. However, the league is filled with guys with the Big P who for whatever reasons peak out short of hopes and wishes and still make a very nice living as ho-hum starters or bench rotation dudes who aren't taking their team anywhere deep. And, the Jazz have a crappy coach. For me it just isn't obvious our Core 3-4 has the mojo when one takes off the homer hope glasses. Its not like the more objective league press/writers are all saying, "Look the F-out, the Jazz are gonna be seriously dangerous when they build around their Core 4." I'm sure one can hunt and peck to validate a point of view but most of what I've been reading is the Jazz are in seriously uncharted territory and not likely threatening any playoff magic in the West very soon without some major adds. So, I'm all about giving the Core 3-4 extensions, keep them together, start cultivating more young talent and home grow them and see if it adds up. Just sayin' though, a bonafide All-star could go a long way towards a return to relevancy.

Well, I mean, yes and no. First off, all we have is our fandom and opinions. On the other hand some folks have a good eye for talent, and some dont. I can only speak for myself, but there's only a few players I've ever talked about in depth good or bad. And we do love our opinions cheers

The first was CJ Miles, and I couldn't stand him since his rookie year. Said he's never going to get it. And at this point, few could argue I was wrong.

Gordo's rookie year, I went on record as saying he was a very good pick, he was going to turn out to be a very good player for this team, a STUD, and would never be looked at as a bust. Calgary and others called me a homer and clueless. Can we agree I was correct?

UnderKanter. In the Eurogames while watching him play right after getting drafted, and Calgary was saying he would be a bust, again I went on record as saying he was a great pick. That he was going to be a STUD, that I thought he'd turn out to be a beast for this team and I loved the pick. Others and of course especially Calgary again told me I was clueless and a homer, that Enes was going to be a bust or that we really dont have a clue.

My point is, I trust me Laughing haha.
I dont think it's a guessing game necessarily, that I've already seen some really good things as soon as those guys hit the court. We may not know the ceilings, but this core is a solid, solid, PHENOMENAL start. And IMO, it's got 3 guarantees to starters for their careers with All Star ballots with their names every year. Add one more player, and this team is ready to roll.

And, it's already been said about Gordo. EVERY ex-player announcing loves him and his game, he's been talked about glowingly for quite awhile. And for the bigs, they are talking about them, and have been actually:
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nba/43108/266/next-years-risers

I mean, I'm looking at what George is doing right now, what his skill set is, and I'm thinking, Hayward can totally do that, he could be doing that right now if he was given the opportunity, he should have been doing it this year for the Jazz, and I truly believe he will be doing that next year. Hayward has actually been better the more minutes and the more usage he has, he's repeatedly expressed a desire to take on more responsibility, and he's on track to become an elite shooter.

I'm very bullish on these young guys, it's going to be a couple years yet before they really come into their own, but I think their are some really good years ahead.
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