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 2013 draft

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Richardale
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Tue May 28, 2013 7:24 pm

outerspacefan wrote:
MTJazz wrote:
One word, one player: Schroeder. Make it so.
Yeap, I'm sold on this guy too. Problem is so many dudes around the league seem to be sold on him too.

If anyone in front of us take him my bet is, it'll be the Mavs. If he gets by Mavs jazz i bet he'll be on board at 21.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Tue May 28, 2013 8:46 pm

outerspacefan wrote:
MTJazz wrote:
One word, one player: Schroeder. Make it so.
Yeap, I'm sold on this guy too. Problem is so many dudes around the league seem to be sold on him too.

A lot of people are sold on him. I myself am intrigued. Yet, I'm not sure why...on either count. There is so little to go on.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Tue May 28, 2013 8:56 pm

Drive"N"Kick wrote:

On another note, we need to get a lockdown defender out there in the perimeter, I know GH is a good defender and DemarrDog is a really good defender because of the extreme hustle he plays with, but we don't have a lockdown defender. And since defense is not looked at near as much as offense on the wings, we could get a very good defender with our late picn or our 2nd pick. How sweet would it be if we got a player like Jimmy Butler with our late pick, with the superstar talent at SF in the league today, having a guy like Jimmy Butler is essential if you don't have a superstar SF.
The way I am looking at it, the Jazz gave too many holes to fill this offseason thatwe couldn't possibly fill. Unless we were to sign CP DH and Tony Allen. And really don't see us getting any of those guys. Toby Allen would be the most likely, but he is 30 so he will most likely be pushing to stay in memphis or go to another contender. It sucks that we are such a small market and can get guys like CP on board. We have to get superstars in the middle of the draft almost every year. The jazz have only drafted in the top 5 like 4 or 5 times in the history of the franchise, and 2 of those were were picks we traded for.
We got Stockton at 16 or 18, let's hope we can get a Stockton like talented Pg at 14.

Well, if you think about it, how many lock down defenders are there in this league? And I'd put DMC and Tony Allen in the same sentence with Jimmy Butler a step above. DMC is a really really good man on man defender. It just seems like Corbin doesn't agree.
The key is, good team defense. And next year, if we get a good PG, and he's a halfway decent defender then we're set with out team defense consisting of Fav/Kanter/GH/DMC/Millsap, all good defenders and a new PG who is 100% assured to be better than Mo or Tinsley. Since you can't be much worse.


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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Tue May 28, 2013 9:08 pm

zero24gravity wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:
Ugh, not Olynyk. I think he screams journeyman at best.

Good thing about Olynyk is that he has a different skill set than the Jazz' current big-duo. Also, the team does need another big, even if they do sign back Millsap. That being said, I think there with be a PG with just as much skill (or more) available, and the point position really should be the team's focus.

Mannnnn, no no. We'd be looking at another Jarron Collins, AT BEST!! :

Kelly Olynyk - C - Player
Gonzaga C Kelly Olynyk tested as one of the worst athletes at the Combine.
Olynyk measured in at a solid 7'0/234. But he has T-rex arms, as his 6-foot-9 3/4 wingspan was shorter than a bunch of swingmen including Otto Porter (7-foot-1 1/2) and Shabazz Muhammed (6-foot-11). For a big man, wingspan is a measurement NBA teams take seriously. Olynyk also did just five reps on the bench press and ranked dead last in the three-quarters court sprint. He'll still go in the top-20 thanks to his raw size and shooting ability, but his stock is not rising.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Wed May 29, 2013 11:23 am

I think DemarrDog is a great defender, but I wouldn't put him in the same sentence as T Al and Jimmy. My thing about demarre is he is areally good defender and hustles like crazy, but his lack of elite athleticism holds him back from being a 1 on 1 lockdown defender. Jimmy Butler in my mind is on his own level. He is the best defender in the league... Period. Not only that I think he is one of the clutches defenders in the league. What he did in the Brooklyn series proves he is a clutch defender and what he did in the miami series proves he is the best defender. The guy played like every minute of every game while taking on a heavy offensive load, and giving Lebron fits, and when he wasn't guarding Lebron, he was on D Wade. What I saw out of him this year has made him my favorie SF in the league, which makes Iggy my number 2 SF (iggy was my favorite for the same reason almost) and KD coming in at number 3.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Wed May 29, 2013 11:24 am

I think DemarrDog is a great defender, but I wouldn't put him in the same sentence as T Al and Jimmy. My thing about demarre is he is areally good defender and hustles like crazy, but his lack of elite athleticism holds him back from being a 1 on 1 lockdown defender. Jimmy Butler in my mind is on his own level. He is the best defender in the league... Period. Not only that I think he is one of the clutches defenders in the league. What he did in the Brooklyn series proves he is a clutch defender and what he did in the miami series proves he is the best defender. The guy played like every minute of every game while taking on a heavy offensive load, and giving Lebron fits, and when he wasn't guarding Lebron, he was on D Wade. What I saw out of him this year has made him my favorie SF in the league, which makes Iggy my number 2 SF (iggy was my favorite for the same reason almost) and KD coming in at number 3.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Wed May 29, 2013 8:24 pm

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1651346-predicting-which-2013-nba-free-agents-will-bolt-current-team#/articles/1655289-2013-nba-mock-draft-how-all-30-first-round-picks-project-entering-june/page/22

I really like this mock draft. I like Larkin but not to sold on his D, This kid will have a hard time with taller points at the next level where dennis has good height with speed. And a big with our second pick just because i'm ready to see what the young guns can do and go from there.Big is great at this level and this kid seams to move prety good.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:25 pm

Richardale wrote:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1651346-predicting-which-2013-nba-free-agents-will-bolt-current-team#/articles/1655289-2013-nba-mock-draft-how-all-30-first-round-picks-project-entering-june/page/22

I really like this mock draft. I like Larkin but not to sold on his D, This kid will have a hard time with taller points at the next level where dennis has good height with speed. And a big with our second pick just because i'm ready to see what the young guns can do and go from there.Big is great at this level and this kid seams to move prety good.

If opposing PGs can be persuaded to jack up shots over Larkin, just because they can, that isn't a bad thing, given the shooting skills of a lot of PGs (ref. Stockton, John). I'm not concerned. Chris Paul can defend and he's a stumpy-aremd shorty who isn't as athletic as Larkin.

That said, having a Rondo-quality defender at PG would be a nice thing wouldn't it?
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:16 pm

Trollificus wrote:
Richardale wrote:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1651346-predicting-which-2013-nba-free-agents-will-bolt-current-team#/articles/1655289-2013-nba-mock-draft-how-all-30-first-round-picks-project-entering-june/page/22

I really like this mock draft. I like Larkin but not to sold on his D, This kid will have a hard time with taller points at the next level where dennis has good height with speed. And a big with our second pick just because i'm ready to see what the young guns can do and go from there.Big is great at this level and this kid seams to move prety good.

If opposing PGs can be persuaded to jack up shots over Larkin, just because they can, that isn't a bad thing, given the shooting skills of a lot of PGs (ref. Stockton, John). I'm not concerned. Chris Paul can defend and he's a stumpy-aremd shorty who isn't as athletic as Larkin.

That said, having a Rondo-quality defender at PG would be a nice thing wouldn't it?

If it was based on offence only i would take Larkin. If you have the best D in the league it'll take yea a long ways. Spurs and heat are in the top end when it comes to D. Dennis S by a nose because of it.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:22 pm

Drive"N"Kick wrote:
I think DemarrDog is a great defender, but I wouldn't put him in the same sentence as T Al and Jimmy. My thing about demarre is he is areally good defender and hustles like crazy, but his lack of elite athleticism holds him back from being a 1 on 1 lockdown defender. Jimmy Butler in my mind is on his own level. He is the best defender in the league... Period. Not only that I think he is one of the clutches defenders in the league. What he did in the Brooklyn series proves he is a clutch defender and what he did in the miami series proves he is the best defender. The guy played like every minute of every game while taking on a heavy offensive load, and giving Lebron fits, and when he wasn't guarding Lebron, he was on D Wade. What I saw out of him this year has made him my favorie SF in the league, which makes Iggy my number 2 SF (iggy was my favorite for the same reason almost) and KD coming in at number 3.

I wouldn't put anyone on Jimmy Butler level either, as I said. But DMC is in Tony Allen's level and if Corbin wasn't so thickheaded, we would have all seen it.
Now that Marv went down, we might finally get a consistent look at DMC, and I bet he immediately pays dividends.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:17 am

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-movement-among-the-drafts-point-guards

Looks like Burke is dropping a bit, and others not as impressive. Of course, it could be all talk once again, from a team trying to throw others off their trail. Never know.
But it's going to be a virtual lock to get one of the top 3 PG's in this draft if Utah wants at 14. And maybe at 21 too.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:28 am

Mutangclan wrote:
Drive"N"Kick wrote:
I think DemarrDog is a great defender, but I wouldn't put him in the same sentence as T Al and Jimmy. My thing about demarre is he is areally good defender and hustles like crazy, but his lack of elite athleticism holds him back from being a 1 on 1 lockdown defender. Jimmy Butler in my mind is on his own level. He is the best defender in the league... Period. Not only that I think he is one of the clutches defenders in the league. What he did in the Brooklyn series proves he is a clutch defender and what he did in the miami series proves he is the best defender. The guy played like every minute of every game while taking on a heavy offensive load, and giving Lebron fits, and when he wasn't guarding Lebron, he was on D Wade. What I saw out of him this year has made him my favorie SF in the league, which makes Iggy my number 2 SF (iggy was my favorite for the same reason almost) and KD coming in at number 3.

I wouldn't put anyone on Jimmy Butler level either, as I said. But DMC is in Tony Allen's level and if Corbin wasn't so thickheaded, we would have all seen it.
Now that Marv went down, we might finally get a consistent look at DMC, and I bet he immediately pays dividends.

I don't agree with either of you.

First off I think Demarre has elite athleticism. He is as fast as anybody on the court and gets off the floor extremely well, his athleticism and hustle are the only reasons he was able to hang around the NBA before he could shoot the ball.

Second, I don't think DMC is a lock-down defender. I don't even think he was the best man-up perimeter defender on the Jazz last year, much less a guy that gets talked about with guys like Jimmy, Tony and Iggy.

No, that's not Demarre. Demarre is more AK than Iggy. Like AK, Demarre makes his defensive impact on a team level, not by locking down whoever it is that he is guarding, rather by creating havok for everybody he's not. He uses his athleticism and instincts to get into passing lanes, pick pockets, and generally disrupt things, and oftend that comes at the expense of guarding his own guy.

Troll posted the theory of the One Disruptive Defender a while back an that is exactly what Demarre is. He's not going to go out and lock somebody down, but he is going to improve the teams D by disrupting the flow of the opposing offense and creating turnovers. The real shame is that most Coaches seem to dislike that sort of chaos, or at least seem uncertain of how to properly use it.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:23 pm

Back to the draft...

The Jazz brought in Cody Zeller for a workout, and he apparently impressed them. I've been seeing some really good things about Zeller lately, projecting as more of a super athletic/skilled PF than a C.

The thing is, Zeller is likely a top 10 pick, and Agents are notorious for not "working down" their players, or in other words not letting their guys work out for teams that are drafting below where their perceived draft status is (for example, Nerlens Noel is only doing 2 workouts before the draft, Cleveland and Orlando). To me this means that either 1) they aren't really sure where he will end up, or 2) the Jazz were able to convince them there was a decent possibility they could move up in the draft.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865581101/Utah-Jazz-Cody-Zeller-impressive-at-workout-while-UVUs-Nick-Thompson-grateful-for-opportunity.html
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:24 pm

DC is what he is, he cost $850,000 last year and might cost $3-4 million next year and he's worth every penny.
People that want to make him a starter or a three point shooter, lock down defender, remember where he came from and how much he will cost compared to other players. He will play harder than anybody on the floor, there will always be roster spots for people like that. The Fred Roberts, the Kurt Rambus, Vinnie Johnson, players that put heart into a roster, DC is needed on this team.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:22 pm

TheMagnus wrote:
Back to the draft...

The Jazz brought in Cody Zeller for a workout, and he apparently impressed them. I've been seeing some really good things about Zeller lately, projecting as more of a super athletic/skilled PF than a C.

The thing is, Zeller is likely a top 10 pick, and Agents are notorious for not "working down" their players, or in other words not letting their guys work out for teams that are drafting below where their perceived draft status is (for example, Nerlens Noel is only doing 2 workouts before the draft, Cleveland and Orlando). To me this means that either 1) they aren't really sure where he will end up, or 2) the Jazz were able to convince them there was a decent possibility they could move up in the draft.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865581101/Utah-Jazz-Cody-Zeller-impressive-at-workout-while-UVUs-Nick-Thompson-grateful-for-opportunity.html

My hunch is the Jazz move up either for Zeller or their #1 or #2 on the board PG. I think they do this by not giving up the #21 pick, either. Assets = Marvin's expiring, next year's #1 and or cash, not necessarily a combination of all three. I think no matter what the Jazz want to come out of this draft cycle with a PG-of-the-future and a new young promising big man WITHOUT spending much bank, and my guess is they figure they can still get their PG at #21. The other holes, i.e next year's starting PG and knock-down SG I think can be addressed with FA this year or next. Pretty sure we see Mo back on a 2-year deal and this or next year big CASH spent on that SG (Burks will always be a backup and potentially an awesome one and I still insist that they see GH as a SF). I like Zeller a lot and with him would pretty much take care of the paint needs into the future after re-signing Kanter and Favors. The Jazz are not trying to win it all next year - this is a very strategic building process that will be built for its shot 2-3 years out.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:27 pm

New RealGM Leroux's draftboard is another sample of the generally percieved weakness of this draftclass. Schroeder rockets up to number 8 in value while the next PGs are Smart and Burke at 16 and 17 (and I don't even consider Smart a true PG). Moreover, there are some names in the top 20 that were nowhere to be find just some days ago.
Of course I understand I'm talking on the opinion of one of many self designed draft experts, yet the point still remains that the perceived weakness of the class is causing huge changes in a day by day basis.

http://basketball.realgm.com/article/227982/2013-NBA-Draft-Board
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:32 pm

MTJazz wrote:
...The Jazz are not trying to win it all next year - this is a very strategic building process that will be built for its shot 2-3 years out.
That's the great scheme of things that Lindsey has talked about a couple of times. I hope they stick to it with patience and above all understanding they have to finally give the reigns to the young guns for two huge reasons: first of all to know what they really got by themselves, without the vets to take the load and the real criticism, and second but no less important, to show the guys they want them to be the future. There will be teams making offers for Hayward, Burks, Favors, Kanter and Evans in due time.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:37 pm

outerspacefan wrote:
New RealGM Leroux's draftboard is another sample of the generally percieved weakness of this draftclass. Schroeder rockets up to number 8 in value while the next PGs are Smart and Burke at 16 and 17 (and I don't even consider Smart a true PG). Moreover, there are some names in the top 20 that were nowhere to be find just some days ago.
Of course I understand I'm talking on the opinion of one of many self designed draft experts, yet the point still remains that the perceived weakness of the class is causing huge changes in a day by day basis.

http://basketball.realgm.com/article/227982/2013-NBA-Draft-Board

That is why I think the Jazz figure they can do pretty well with a PG at the #21 pick so why not do the "not obvious" thing and pick off one of the better big men on the board and sew up the future's scariest front court? They sign Mo on an insurance 2-3 year deal for modest money - he can't and won't command big bucks with his performance and injury/missed games history and he is more than adequate to guide a building young squad while mentoring a new PG. This draft is fat in PGs, none obvious franchise guys, so why not roll the dice on an overlooked but decent prospect PG with the #21? He doesn't work out you look at next year's class or address it in FA. Wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if Schroeder is considered the best PG and he is still not going to crack the top 5 picks. Great year to pick up a decent prospect at #21.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:39 am

Veeerrrrrry interesting. DraftExpress now has MCW going to Dallas and then a big change, Shane Larkin going to Utah at #14 and then Schroeder going to the Bucks at #15.

http://www.draftexpress.com/

Of course then as of yesterday, Hoopsworld Mock has us taking Kelly Olynyk(personally, vomit) at #14 but then still getting Schroeder at #21, with Larkin going #16.

Looks like Larkin is moving up....
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:39 am

outerspacefan wrote:
New RealGM Leroux's draftboard is another sample of the generally percieved weakness of this draftclass. Schroeder rockets up to number 8 in value while the next PGs are Smart and Burke at 16 and 17 (and I don't even consider Smart a true PG). Moreover, there are some names in the top 20 that were nowhere to be find just some days ago.
Of course I understand I'm talking on the opinion of one of many self designed draft experts, yet the point still remains that the perceived weakness of the class is causing huge changes in a day by day basis.

http://basketball.realgm.com/article/227982/2013-NBA-Draft-Board

That is one of the craziest draft boards I've seen this year, and I'd give it much more credibility if his rankings didn't run completely counter to his explanations of how he valued players, as it is I am skeptical of his credentials.

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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:06 am

The Jazz are working out Larkin and five others today.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865581159/Utah-Jazz-Shane-Larkin-among-projected-first-rounders-at-Jazzs-pre-draft-workout-Wednesday.html

So per the Jazz established routine of inviting guys in to compete against other players at their position, Larkin will be working against Lorenzo Brown. That's interesting because Brown is a long, athletic, PG who will give the Jazz a nice look at how Larkin responds against longer opponents. Brown is a nice sleeper sort of prospect himself, in the words of Chad Ford "if he had a consistent jump shot, he'd be a lottery pick", and he could be on the board in the second round when the Jazz pick.

The other really intersting prospect at this workout is Tony Mitchel, he's a 6'8" PF with really nice skills and great athleticism. He's paired with Amath M'Baye.

The last pairing is wings Reggie Bullock out of North Carolina and Malik Story out of Nevada. Bullock is a great shooter with nice size and athleticism.

I think Larkin is a possibility at 14, and Bullock and Mitchel are both possibilities at 21, Brown is likely a second rounder, and the other two are likely undrafted guys unless they seriously impress.



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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:06 am

MTJazz wrote:
TheMagnus wrote:
Back to the draft...

The Jazz brought in Cody Zeller for a workout, and he apparently impressed them. I've been seeing some really good things about Zeller lately, projecting as more of a super athletic/skilled PF than a C.

The thing is, Zeller is likely a top 10 pick, and Agents are notorious for not "working down" their players, or in other words not letting their guys work out for teams that are drafting below where their perceived draft status is (for example, Nerlens Noel is only doing 2 workouts before the draft, Cleveland and Orlando). To me this means that either 1) they aren't really sure where he will end up, or 2) the Jazz were able to convince them there was a decent possibility they could move up in the draft.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865581101/Utah-Jazz-Cody-Zeller-impressive-at-workout-while-UVUs-Nick-Thompson-grateful-for-opportunity.html

My hunch is the Jazz move up either for Zeller or their #1 or #2 on the board PG. I think they do this by not giving up the #21 pick, either. Assets = Marvin's expiring, next year's #1 and or cash, not necessarily a combination of all three. I think no matter what the Jazz want to come out of this draft cycle with a PG-of-the-future and a new young promising big man WITHOUT spending much bank, and my guess is they figure they can still get their PG at #21. The other holes, i.e next year's starting PG and knock-down SG I think can be addressed with FA this year or next. Pretty sure we see Mo back on a 2-year deal and this or next year big CASH spent on that SG (Burks will always be a backup and potentially an awesome one and I still insist that they see GH as a SF). I like Zeller a lot and with him would pretty much take care of the paint needs into the future after re-signing Kanter and Favors. The Jazz are not trying to win it all next year - this is a very strategic building process that will be built for its shot 2-3 years out.

Jazz could be wanting teams to think they're moving up and have a in? Other teams may think Hey we can trade with jazz if we want to move back and get another pick or player this year? Just smoke to see whats out there? I mean come on when has the jazz ever shown there hand on who they really wanted before? My money says they say where there at unless they get bites with Tomic in the deal to move up for a higher pick.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:13 am

Richardale wrote:

Jazz could be wanting teams to think they're moving up and have a in? Other teams may think Hey we can trade with jazz if we want to move back and get another pick or player this year? Just smoke to see whats out there? I mean come on when has the jazz ever shown there hand on who they really wanted before? My money says they say where there at unless they get bites with Tomic in the deal to move up for a higher pick.

I still wonder if Tomic couldn't be brought over this summer, it would be a perfect time to give it a try, but I think he's on contract in europe for at least one more year.

Anybody know what the status of his current contract is? If he has a reasonable buyout option?
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:45 am

TheMagnus wrote:


The other really intersting prospect at this workout is Tony Mitchel, he's a 6'8" PF with really nice skills and great athleticism. He's paired with Amath M'Baye.


I've seen Tony Mitchell all over numerous mocks for Utah taking at 21.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013 draft   Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:05 pm

I know a lot of folks are on the Dennis Schroder bandwagon, but I am starting to lean more and more towards Shane Larkin.
Don't get me wrong, I don't know that I would be mad if they took Schroder, but Larkin is looking better and better to me.

I just think MCW will be gone. I know he has some flaws, but I think he is more nba ready than Larkin or Schroder. Burke is out of the question, because he will be gone.
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2013 draft
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