The Home of the greatest fans in the NBA!
 
HomeHome    CalendarCalendar  GalleryGallery  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  

Share | 
 

 The state of the Utah Jazz.

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
AuthorMessage
Romoholic
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1090
Points : 1284
Reputation : 38
Join date : 2012-04-26
Age : 42
Location : Layton, Utah

PostSubject: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:48 am

Ok I've been thinking a lot about the coaching Job that Ty has done since he took over for Jerry. I've been very critical of Corbin this season. I gave him a pass on his first half season. I doubt any coach in the history of the NBA could have came in and fixed that train wreck of a season.

Last season I'm on record as predicting 15 wins for the Jazz. With the lock out and no training camp I thought Ty did a fine job of taking a team that most "experts" predicted to be at the bottom of the league, to the playoffs.

So this year comes around and we all expected the next step to be taken forward and make the playoffs with possible home court in the first round. I don't think anyone was thinking championship, but we all thought we had a good team on the rise.

Then as the season went along we say that this team wasn't going to be what we all thought the were. Now we are all shouting fire Corbin, from the top of the highest mountain.

I guess I'll step over to the other side of the argument for the moment, not that I'm falling on that side of the arguement, but I think it's more than just "Corbin suck balls"

We keep hearing how great the players were when dealing with most of them being FA after this season. I don't buy it. Some reports have come out that that's not really the case. Some of us saw that Milsap had an attitude problem all season. He was short with the media and from the games I went to he had no interaction with the fans like he has in the past. It really looked like he was just ready to move on from the Jazz.

We know some of the guys on this team have a history of being dicks about playing time, like Earl Watson.

I know Ty had to try to find a balance between playing the young guys and keeping the vets happy and not lose the team. I have to believe that, that had to have been a very tough assignment. I also think regardless of what management tells us, they kind of looked at this as a throw away season. They had a bunch of guys on one year contracts, knowing they were going to have a butt load of money in the upcoming FA period. I think they knew this was going to be a transition season.

Corbin wasn't good this season, but there are reasons for it other than him being a bad coach. He is new to coaching and probably wasn't ready for a head coaching job, but he has shown he is willing to stand up to players like he did with Raja. the thing is he had so many FA this season that he couldn't stand up to all of them and risk all the guys that were going to be FA quitting on him.

I Think the fans would have rather seen a season with young guys getting push even if that caused us to have a losing record. Instead I think the front office and coaching staff had two entirely different plans for the season. The front office wanted to ride the season out and prepare for this off season, and Corbin still had illusions of being a playoff contender.

Corbin has a lot of weakness's as a head coach, but all new head coaches do. He needs to get better with his rotations and game management. He can get better though, it's just going to take time. However I don't think he will ever be successful in Utah. The Jazz front office that has so long had the motto of continuity are making the Jazz a team that is constantly in a state of flux. First the Sloan departure, then trading Deron, the lock out wasn't their fault, but then after a playoff run they dumped a bunch of players and signed a bunch of one year contracts.

Now you have the FA signing period and if they can't entice some long term guys to come here, they will sign a bunch more one year deals and hope the next FA period produced better results. On top of that you have our young guys coming to the end of their rookie contract and that is going to need attention as well.

The bottom line is the Jazz organization isn't stable and it doesn't look like they are going to be for the foreseeable future. They don't have a strong leader in the front office and lack a clear direction. Love or hate Larry Miller, he knew where he wanted the team to go and made sure to keep the ship pointed in that direction. Now we have Greggy, who is more concerned about his jeeps, Moab and his car dealerships than the Jazz.

The future of the Jazz doesn't look very good right now, but it starts with the front office, not Corbin.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://jazznation.forumotion.com
TheMagnus
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1765
Points : 2172
Reputation : 75
Join date : 2012-04-26

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:27 am

Romoholic wrote:


The future of the Jazz doesn't look very good right now, but it starts with the front office, not Corbin.

I mostly dissagree with the sentiment on the future, but I agree that much of the bad we have right now is due to Front Office mistakes, that were maybe aggravated a bit by Corbin.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Romoholic
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1090
Points : 1284
Reputation : 38
Join date : 2012-04-26
Age : 42
Location : Layton, Utah

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:47 am

TheMagnus wrote:
Romoholic wrote:


The future of the Jazz doesn't look very good right now, but it starts with the front office, not Corbin.

I mostly dissagree with the sentiment on the future, but I agree that much of the bad we have right now is due to Front Office mistakes, that were maybe aggravated a bit by Corbin.

What do you see that makes you think the future is bright? I don't see much. They don't have anyone on the roster to build a team around, all they have to show for all the draft picks and trades are role players. They are gambling on bringing in FAs and there aren't many top notch FA available this off season anyway.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see it.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://jazznation.forumotion.com
zero24gravity
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1137
Points : 1423
Reputation : 47
Join date : 2012-04-27
Age : 39

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:04 pm

A little off topic, but I don't want to start a thread just to throw this out there ....

I was listening to local sports radio about the Jazz this morning. They interviewed Al, who told them that during the season he heard that national media & Jazz fans were questioning his defense so he went to the coaches and asked them if his defense was really that bad. They carefully let him down easy that his defense did need work.

The radio guys were using this as a fun story to talk about how nice of a guy Al is (something I don't dispute for even a second), but all I could think was, first, ... "Al didn't already know this?" ... and second (and more importantly), the coaches obviously hadn't ever talked to him about sureing up his defense! WTF?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.facebook.com/BasketAppealGiftBaskets
Trollificus
All Star
avatar

Posts : 553
Points : 684
Reputation : 47
Join date : 2012-05-03
Age : 97
Location : Sugarhouse

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:11 pm

Romoholic wrote:
TheMagnus wrote:
Romoholic wrote:


The future of the Jazz doesn't look very good right now, but it starts with the front office, not Corbin.

I mostly dissagree with the sentiment on the future, but I agree that much of the bad we have right now is due to Front Office mistakes, that were maybe aggravated a bit by Corbin.

What do you see that makes you think the future is bright? I don't see much. They don't have anyone on the roster to build a team around, all they have to show for all the draft picks and trades are role players. They are gambling on bringing in FAs and there aren't many top notch FA available this off season anyway.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see it.


Other than a pre-packaged "superstar" in the draft, where do you think the kind of players you "build a team around" come from??

They are mostly players who, in their 1st, 2nd, 3rd years, were viewed as "maybes", not cornerstones. Players like Hayward, Kanter, Favors and (I still think) Burks. I mean, who were Larry Sanders, Chandler Parsons, Klay Thompson, Goran Dragic, Lowry, Vasquez, Ryan Anderson, etc., etc. last year or two years ago?? They were just draft choices, just guys. Now they're integral building blocks, very good players. Hell, who was James Harden two years ago? Were people saying "Build a team around this guy."??

Not every team is built with players who became good on other teams. What's the point of that? So I don't see the fact that none of the young guys on the Jazz are established NBA stars means we have nothing and need to sign someone who is already successful (we tried that, and recently). These kids are "role players" ONLY because Ty has
relegated them to that...role. We need to play them and let them find their own level of success.

No reason to think it won't be very high.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Romoholic
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1090
Points : 1284
Reputation : 38
Join date : 2012-04-26
Age : 42
Location : Layton, Utah

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:39 pm

Trollificus wrote:
Romoholic wrote:
TheMagnus wrote:
Romoholic wrote:


The future of the Jazz doesn't look very good right now, but it starts with the front office, not Corbin.

I mostly dissagree with the sentiment on the future, but I agree that much of the bad we have right now is due to Front Office mistakes, that were maybe aggravated a bit by Corbin.

What do you see that makes you think the future is bright? I don't see much. They don't have anyone on the roster to build a team around, all they have to show for all the draft picks and trades are role players. They are gambling on bringing in FAs and there aren't many top notch FA available this off season anyway.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see it.


Other than a pre-packaged "superstar" in the draft, where do you think the kind of players you "build a team around" come from??

They are mostly players who, in their 1st, 2nd, 3rd years, were viewed as "maybes", not cornerstones. Players like Hayward, Kanter, Favors and (I still think) Burks. I mean, who were Larry Sanders, Chandler Parsons, Klay Thompson, Goran Dragic, Lowry, Vasquez, Ryan Anderson, etc., etc. last year or two years ago?? They were just draft choices, just guys. Now they're integral building blocks, very good players. Hell, who was James Harden two years ago? Were people saying "Build a team around this guy."??

Not every team is built with players who became good on other teams. What's the point of that? So I don't see the fact that none of the young guys on the Jazz are established NBA stars means we have nothing and need to sign someone who is already successful (we tried that, and recently). These kids are "role players" ONLY because Ty has
relegated them to that...role. We need to play them and let them find their own level of success.

No reason to think it won't be very high.

So who on this team do you build around? I'm not 1/2 as high on favors as most of you guys are. Gordon is my favorite player, but not a guy you build a team around. Kanter, who knows what his max is. Nobody believes Burks is that guy.

So maybe we build a team like the Grizzlies a team of really good player with no real superstar. Ok fine, but how far will that really take you? nobody in their right mind really believes the Grizz have a shot at the title.

Look at the teams that really have a shot at coming out of the west. The Spurs have Parker and Timmy and a HOF coach. The Thunder have KD, Westbrook and Ibaca. the Clippers have CP3 and Griffen.

To have a real shot, you have to have elite talent and good coaching we have neither and have no idea where to acquire such things. All these high hopes based on something we haven't seen are great and keep us watching, but really whats the chances of any of them panning out?

I'm going to support my team no matter what they do, but I've come to the harsh realization that we are much closer to being a high lottery team, than a legit contender, and I don't see that changing in the foreseeable future.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://jazznation.forumotion.com
Trollificus
All Star
avatar

Posts : 553
Points : 684
Reputation : 47
Join date : 2012-05-03
Age : 97
Location : Sugarhouse

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:57 pm

Well OF COURSE it's not going to change. We are NEVER going to get that pre-packaged, guaranteed-lock superstar out of the draft, because (I hope) we'll never get the #1 or 2 pick.

And we will NEVER be able to buy that top-10 talent superstar. They won't come to a small market like this, especially one with (how shall I say this delicately?) such a 'unique' culture.

None of that is the FO's fault. The miraculous drafting of HoFers at 13 and 16 in consecutive years has distorted our expectations.

So yeah, the only way for this team to be competitive, with only the longest of long shot chances at the title, is to get a bunch of Very Good players, a good system, a good coach and win the Battle of the Benches every night. This plan would be more practical, in terms of actually, you know, winning a championship, if the NBA weren't such a corrupt, money-first, star-serving PoS league led by an evil lawyer-toad served by hordes of vile orc henchmen (refs). But it is.

It's disappointing, it really is. But lets don't pretend the FO can do much about that reality.They can't. And neither could sainted Larry Miller were he running the team today.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
TheMagnus
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1765
Points : 2172
Reputation : 75
Join date : 2012-04-26

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:18 pm

Trollificus wrote:
Romoholic wrote:
TheMagnus wrote:
Romoholic wrote:


The future of the Jazz doesn't look very good right now, but it starts with the front office, not Corbin.

I mostly dissagree with the sentiment on the future, but I agree that much of the bad we have right now is due to Front Office mistakes, that were maybe aggravated a bit by Corbin.

What do you see that makes you think the future is bright? I don't see much. They don't have anyone on the roster to build a team around, all they have to show for all the draft picks and trades are role players. They are gambling on bringing in FAs and there aren't many top notch FA available this off season anyway.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see it.


Other than a pre-packaged "superstar" in the draft, where do you think the kind of players you "build a team around" come from??

They are mostly players who, in their 1st, 2nd, 3rd years, were viewed as "maybes", not cornerstones. Players like Hayward, Kanter, Favors and (I still think) Burks. I mean, who were Larry Sanders, Chandler Parsons, Klay Thompson, Goran Dragic, Lowry, Vasquez, Ryan Anderson, etc., etc. last year or two years ago?? They were just draft choices, just guys. Now they're integral building blocks, very good players. Hell, who was James Harden two years ago? Were people saying "Build a team around this guy."??

Not every team is built with players who became good on other teams. What's the point of that? So I don't see the fact that none of the young guys on the Jazz are established NBA stars means we have nothing and need to sign someone who is already successful (we tried that, and recently). These kids are "role players" ONLY because Ty has
relegated them to that...role. We need to play them and let them find their own level of success.

No reason to think it won't be very high.

Exactly. Solid response there.

Specifically for me the future seems bright because the talent we know we are keeping is good and everything else is up in the air. The feason everything being up in the air is a good thing is because we've been here before, about 8 years ago. I said somwhere else I felt like this is the summer of 2005 or 2006 again. The Jazz were transitioning from the Stockton/Malone era, they were comming off a crappy season and had a team built around AK and Matt Harpring. They used thier cap room to get Boozer and Memo the year before but they had completely wiffed in the 2004 draft. Redemption was nigh though as 2005 drafted in D-Will and CJ and 2006 drafted Brewer and Millsap, signed Fisher and traded for Korver.

I feel like we are right there, instead of Boozer (24) and Memo (26) and D-Will (21), we've got Kanter (21) and Favors (22) and Hayward (24). Will we continute to keep Millsap and/or Jefferson as our Harpring/AK holdovers? Or will we jettison them and target free agents like we did with Boozer and Okur? Will we flip Marvin like we flipped Giricek?

We've been in this frustrating holding pattern for 2.5 years now, and I think this year is when things start to change, it may get worse before it gets better, but I really believe it will get better.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Mutangclan
Hall Of Famer
avatar

Posts : 1296
Points : 1397
Reputation : 73
Join date : 2012-04-26

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:04 pm

I'm pretty sure, we dont have one Superstar on this team to build around. But we do have 3, maybe 4 guys who are going to be really really good to build around. So we have 4 building blocks. We build an entire team, not a star and a couple outside shooters.

Also, I want Paul back for a good contract.

I think Paul just saw all the same things alot of us did. I imagine it going like this:

"Man, Al is cool and all, but shit man, we would be SO much better without him on the floor all the time! Me, Gordo KantyMan and Fav could blow this up......I do like him though, but man this is frustrating."

Bring back Paul to start with Fav. Kanter will automatically go from 18mins per to 28mins per at least. Everybody wins. And if the right offense is installed......

There are two people that were in the right offense on this team this year, and only two: Al and Foye. Everyone else, was a square peg into a round hole. They were all forced to do something that did not utilize all of their talents best, and they knew it. Veteran Paul Millsap DEFINITELY knew it. I think thats what happened, and why he had an attitude.

If Corbin comes back, and is unable to change his offense, then I think we're looking at a super high lottery pick next year. This team could be really good with a coach/offense, that utilizes ballmovement, athleticism, alot of passing and most importantly a coach that emphasizes defense. We have the guys to do it.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Romoholic
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1090
Points : 1284
Reputation : 38
Join date : 2012-04-26
Age : 42
Location : Layton, Utah

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:16 pm

I think you guys are grossly overestimating the players that are on this team, but I don't have the energy to argue the point anymore.

It's probably time to take a break from the boards, I'm too pissed about the way the season ended to have any rational discussion about it.

Have a good summer guys.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://jazznation.forumotion.com
TheMagnus
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1765
Points : 2172
Reputation : 75
Join date : 2012-04-26

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:13 pm

Romoholic wrote:
I think you guys are grossly overestimating the players that are on this team, but I don't have the energy to argue the point anymore.

It's probably time to take a break from the boards, I'm too pissed about the way the season ended to have any rational discussion about it.

Have a good summer guys.

Gotta remember what a big factor age is here, and how many different directions things can go with so much cap room. As of today there are only 6 players who are actually on this team, 4 of those players are 23 or younger and are ALREADY good enough to be rotation players for any team in the NBA. So many different things can happen, and it could go terribly wrong, but I see no reason for overwhelming pessimism at this point.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Trollificus
All Star
avatar

Posts : 553
Points : 684
Reputation : 47
Join date : 2012-05-03
Age : 97
Location : Sugarhouse

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:59 pm

Romoholic wrote:
I think you guys are grossly overestimating the players that are on this team, but I don't have the energy to argue the point anymore.

It's probably time to take a break from the boards, I'm too pissed about the way the season ended to have any rational discussion about it.

Have a good summer guys.

Hey, man. Hope I didn't sound all lectur-y and shit. I know I get that way sometimes.

I hope you're just having a "grass is greener" reaction to being able to see the flaws in OUR developing players while kind of selectively looking at the good-looking numbers from other teams' developing players. Amd I hope you're worng, as, I'm sure, do you.

Have a great summer, Romo. See ya in the Fantasy Football leagues!! (and for your sake, I hope the 'Boys have a decent year.)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
rorybreaker
6th man


Posts : 102
Points : 112
Reputation : 4
Join date : 2012-05-06

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:43 pm

I don't think Ty gets it, watching the second half of the Memphis game was a perfect example of the Jazz's season.
What scares me is that next year won't be any different except Lindsey might bring in guys like Dudley, Kaman, Ridnour, Jimmer, one retread after another.
I can just see Burks (if he isn't traded) playing behind Ronnie Brewer.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
The Voice of Reason
Admin
avatar

Posts : 498
Points : 617
Reputation : 21
Join date : 2012-04-26

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:27 pm

rorybreaker wrote:
I don't think Ty gets it, watching the second half of the Memphis game was a perfect example of the Jazz's season.
What scares me is that next year won't be any different except Lindsey might bring in guys like Dudley, Kaman, Ridnour, Jimmer, one retread after another.
I can just see Burks (if he isn't traded) playing behind Ronnie Brewer.

I actually have faith in Lindsey (for now). At least I'm gonna give him one draft and one off season before I get on the #FireLindsey bandwagon. Smile
From everything I've heard from him...I kind of like him. To be fair to him, I think we need to let him get his fingerprints on this team. He basically inherited KOC's doings.
Will he be any better or different? Time will tell. But I have faith he will be a good GM.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Romoholic
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1090
Points : 1284
Reputation : 38
Join date : 2012-04-26
Age : 42
Location : Layton, Utah

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:50 pm

Trollificus wrote:
Romoholic wrote:
I think you guys are grossly overestimating the players that are on this team, but I don't have the energy to argue the point anymore.

It's probably time to take a break from the boards, I'm too pissed about the way the season ended to have any rational discussion about it.

Have a good summer guys.

Hey, man. Hope I didn't sound all lectur-y and shit. I know I get that way sometimes.

I hope you're just having a "grass is greener" reaction to being able to see the flaws in OUR developing players while kind of selectively looking at the good-looking numbers from other teams' developing players. Amd I hope you're worng, as, I'm sure, do you.

Have a great summer, Romo. See ya in the Fantasy Football leagues!! (and for your sake, I hope the 'Boys have a decent year.)

Nah Troll, you're good brother. I was just having a crappy day and was still a little butt hurt about the way the season ended. I'm ready to move on to the off season now cheers

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://jazznation.forumotion.com
Saint Louis
Starter


Posts : 382
Points : 473
Reputation : 8
Join date : 2012-04-28

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:42 am

TheMagnus wrote:
Romoholic wrote:
I think you guys are grossly overestimating the players that are on this team, but I don't have the energy to argue the point anymore.

It's probably time to take a break from the boards, I'm too pissed about the way the season ended to have any rational discussion about it.

Have a good summer guys.

Gotta remember what a big factor age is here, and how many different directions things can go with so much cap room. As of today there are only 6 players who are actually on this team, 4 of those players are 23 or younger and are ALREADY good enough to be rotation players for any team in the NBA. So many different things can happen, and it could go terribly wrong, but I see no reason for overwhelming pessimism at this point.

I'm with you, Mag, on "Possibilities." One thing that has been a blessing and a curse for Jazz fans has been "What can we do this year?" Last year and this year, and most of our post Stockton/Malone years there has been an argument whether to "Blow Up the Team" or try to win it all. And many of those years, we had a very good argument for trying to go for it all. I'm pretty sure we've had D-Will, Korver, AK47, Boozer, and Memo (with a bench of Wes, Millsap, Koufos, and maybe the former Mr. Kardashian). (I may be wrong on when we had Kris Humphries and Koufos.) This year, though, was based on Mo Williams, Millsap, and Big Al, with tremendous contributions from Hey Hay, Foye, Marvin Williams, Favors, Kanter, Tinsley, et. al.

Mo Will went down for a good chunk of our season, and we were suddenly forced to either win and compete with Tinsley/Watson/Burks at PG, or develop a future team with Tinsley/Watson/Burks. When Mo Will went down, we could have opted to focus on rebuilding-- and we could have gone heavy into rotations of Burks, Hey Hay, DC, Favors, and Kanter. There would have been nothing wrong with that strategy if NBA teams were allowed to do such things. However, the NBA (Stern) had already fined San Antonio's coach for sitting their best players. If Big Al and Paul Millsap were healthy, it kind of looks like the NBA was ready to make them play.

Frankly, I would have been happy with a Jazz season that was closer to Orlando's season. Big Al, Marvin Williams, and maybe even Millsap could have taken extensive rides on the pine. We would have been able to develop Favors, Hey Hay, Kanter, DC, and maybe even Burks so much more than our strategy of "We have to find a way to win now." But, I completely understand the Jazz' mentality of, "We have to win now." In hindsight, we definitely did NOT win now. Big Al, Millsap, Foye, Marv Will and Mo Will did NOT deliver even a playoff spot. I'm pretty sure, though, that Big Al, Millsap, Foye, Marv and Mo Will gave us more wins this year than we would have had if we had used them less.

Still, I'm very optimistic about the Jazz' future. I vote we go the way Orlando went this past year. Give our coach a chance to develop our players, and have no expectations we will make the playoffs. Develop our coach, and develop our team.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
MTJazz
All Star
avatar

Posts : 729
Points : 812
Reputation : 37
Join date : 2012-04-27

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:15 pm

Saint Louis wrote:


Still, I'm very optimistic about the Jazz' future. I vote we go the way Orlando went this past year. Give our coach a chance to develop our players, and have no expectations we will make the playoffs. Develop our coach, and develop our team.

I'm not the least bit optimistic until I see the new roster. Based on the draft and FA acquisitions I could get intrigued again. It dawned on me really late, but if you look at the "on paper" Jazz roster this year and their massive under-performance to bonafide lottery team...well, looks like formal re-building is in order. Who thinks the Core Four are the nucleus of a contending team? Any hands? Nope. The Jazz are in re-build mode, no doubt. The Jazz FO ran out of alchemy with what now in hindsight looks like a bad list of ingredients but didn't going in. Pretty obvious at this point that unless they can pull some magic out of the hat, (pivotal FA signings), the Jazz are either in a downward spiral. Poker at its finest, down on chips, needing a good hand. Damn, I need something to get excited about and it is not the Core 4 leading the Jazz into relevancy again. Are we witnessing the wheels falling off the Jazz bus or is masterful FO moves going to blow us away with their brilliance?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Professo_Sloan
6th man


Posts : 126
Points : 143
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2012-12-07

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:40 pm

Romoholic wrote:
Ok I've been thinking a lot about the coaching Job that Ty has done since he took over for Jerry. I've been very critical of Corbin this season. I gave him a pass on his first half season. I doubt any coach in the history of the NBA could have came in and fixed that train wreck of a season.

Last season I'm on record as predicting 15 wins for the Jazz. With the lock out and no training camp I thought Ty did a fine job of taking a team that most "experts" predicted to be at the bottom of the league, to the playoffs.

So this year comes around and we all expected the next step to be taken forward and make the playoffs with possible home court in the first round. I don't think anyone was thinking championship, but we all thought we had a good team on the rise.

Then as the season went along we say that this team wasn't going to be what we all thought the were. Now we are all shouting fire Corbin, from the top of the highest mountain.

I guess I'll step over to the other side of the argument for the moment, not that I'm falling on that side of the arguement, but I think it's more than just "Corbin suck balls"

We keep hearing how great the players were when dealing with most of them being FA after this season. I don't buy it. Some reports have come out that that's not really the case. Some of us saw that Milsap had an attitude problem all season. He was short with the media and from the games I went to he had no interaction with the fans like he has in the past. It really looked like he was just ready to move on from the Jazz.

We know some of the guys on this team have a history of being dicks about playing time, like Earl Watson.

I know Ty had to try to find a balance between playing the young guys and keeping the vets happy and not lose the team. I have to believe that, that had to have been a very tough assignment. I also think regardless of what management tells us, they kind of looked at this as a throw away season. They had a bunch of guys on one year contracts, knowing they were going to have a butt load of money in the upcoming FA period. I think they knew this was going to be a transition season.

Corbin wasn't good this season, but there are reasons for it other than him being a bad coach. He is new to coaching and probably wasn't ready for a head coaching job, but he has shown he is willing to stand up to players like he did with Raja. the thing is he had so many FA this season that he couldn't stand up to all of them and risk all the guys that were going to be FA quitting on him.

I Think the fans would have rather seen a season with young guys getting push even if that caused us to have a losing record. Instead I think the front office and coaching staff had two entirely different plans for the season. The front office wanted to ride the season out and prepare for this off season, and Corbin still had illusions of being a playoff contender.

Corbin has a lot of weakness's as a head coach, but all new head coaches do. He needs to get better with his rotations and game management. He can get better though, it's just going to take time. However I don't think he will ever be successful in Utah. The Jazz front office that has so long had the motto of continuity are making the Jazz a team that is constantly in a state of flux. First the Sloan departure, then trading Deron, the lock out wasn't their fault, but then after a playoff run they dumped a bunch of players and signed a bunch of one year contracts.

Now you have the FA signing period and if they can't entice some long term guys to come here, they will sign a bunch more one year deals and hope the next FA period produced better results. On top of that you have our young guys coming to the end of their rookie contract and that is going to need attention as well.

The bottom line is the Jazz organization isn't stable and it doesn't look like they are going to be for the foreseeable future. They don't have a strong leader in the front office and lack a clear direction. Love or hate Larry Miller, he knew where he wanted the team to go and made sure to keep the ship pointed in that direction. Now we have Greggy, who is more concerned about his jeeps, Moab and his car dealerships than the Jazz.

The future of the Jazz doesn't look very good right now, but it starts with the front office, not Corbin.

Almost co-signed.

LHM had S&M. He knew what he wanted b/c he had their loyalty. It's easy to have direction without all the distraction that is uncertainty & gamble.

The FO isn't dumb like you're painting. They know full well what situation they are in, and have to sell a product regardless of the bleak future they see before we see through their sales pitch.

This is a give it time period where fans will have to adjust from hopes to reality. Noone in the Utah fanbase likes losing seasons. Credit to us and credit to management for handling that. Screw SCREW losing culture. LLJBB
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Mutangclan
Hall Of Famer
avatar

Posts : 1296
Points : 1397
Reputation : 73
Join date : 2012-04-26

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:22 pm

Bleacherreport actually does a pretty good job here, and IMO pretty much nails what needs to be done.

One theme that keeps popping up everywhere, is I believe we have our starting two guard locked up for good and it's a SF we need more. Gordo has shown he's a much better 2 than 3, on offense and defense. So if a new guy is brought in, I want him playing the 3 (Jsmoove could do this.... ;D )

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1619763-biggest-issues-utah-jazz-must-address-this-offseason
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Richardale
All Star
avatar

Posts : 657
Points : 726
Reputation : 22
Join date : 2012-04-26
Age : 52
Location : Hell in the summer. St george

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:55 pm

MTJazz wrote:
Saint Louis wrote:


Still, I'm very optimistic about the Jazz' future. I vote we go the way Orlando went this past year. Give our coach a chance to develop our players, and have no expectations we will make the playoffs. Develop our coach, and develop our team.

I'm not the least bit optimistic until I see the new roster. Based on the draft and FA acquisitions I could get intrigued again. It dawned on me really late, but if you look at the "on paper" Jazz roster this year and their massive under-performance to bonafide lottery team...well, looks like formal re-building is in order. Who thinks the Core Four are the nucleus of a contending team? Any hands? Nope. The Jazz are in re-build mode, no doubt. The Jazz FO ran out of alchemy with what now in hindsight looks like a bad list of ingredients but didn't going in. Pretty obvious at this point that unless they can pull some magic out of the hat, (pivotal FA signings), the Jazz are either in a downward spiral. Poker at its finest, down on chips, needing a good hand. Damn, I need something to get excited about and it is not the Core 4 leading the Jazz into relevancy again. Are we witnessing the wheels falling off the Jazz bus or is masterful FO moves going to blow us away with their brilliance?

I'll be your huckleberry, I think our core can be contenders. Next year nope but maybe four to five years, yea. Someone help me out here. how many years was MJ before he won it all? Chit how many years before stock and malone got to the big show? I remember thinking none of those guys would get there.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Richardale
All Star
avatar

Posts : 657
Points : 726
Reputation : 22
Join date : 2012-04-26
Age : 52
Location : Hell in the summer. St george

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:58 pm

Mutangclan wrote:
Bleacherreport actually does a pretty good job here, and IMO pretty much nails what needs to be done.

One theme that keeps popping up everywhere, is I believe we have our starting two guard locked up for good and it's a SF we need more. Gordo has shown he's a much better 2 than 3, on offense and defense. So if a new guy is brought in, I want him playing the 3 (Jsmoove could do this.... ;D )

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1619763-biggest-issues-utah-jazz-must-address-this-offseason

Thats a big step and with a couple good draft picks jazz are in playoffs.

Enes
Favor
smith
Hayward
fill in the blank here.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Professo_Sloan
6th man


Posts : 126
Points : 143
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2012-12-07

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:29 pm

Mutangclan wrote:
Bleacherreport actually does a pretty good job here, and IMO pretty much nails what needs to be done.

One theme that keeps popping up everywhere, is I believe we have our starting two guard locked up for good and it's a SF we need more. Gordo has shown he's a much better 2 than 3, on offense and defense. So if a new guy is brought in, I want him playing the 3 (Jsmoove could do this.... ;D )

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1619763-biggest-issues-utah-jazz-must-address-this-offseason

I read a bit on Smoove guarding 3's a couple weeks back and the literature wasn't good. I'd LOVE it if he could go both ways there, but it sounds like he's millsapish at the three. Situationally only.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Professo_Sloan
6th man


Posts : 126
Points : 143
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2012-12-07

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:33 pm

Richardale wrote:
MTJazz wrote:
Saint Louis wrote:


Still, I'm very optimistic about the Jazz' future. I vote we go the way Orlando went this past year. Give our coach a chance to develop our players, and have no expectations we will make the playoffs. Develop our coach, and develop our team.

I'm not the least bit optimistic until I see the new roster. Based on the draft and FA acquisitions I could get intrigued again. It dawned on me really late, but if you look at the "on paper" Jazz roster this year and their massive under-performance to bonafide lottery team...well, looks like formal re-building is in order. Who thinks the Core Four are the nucleus of a contending team? Any hands? Nope. The Jazz are in re-build mode, no doubt. The Jazz FO ran out of alchemy with what now in hindsight looks like a bad list of ingredients but didn't going in. Pretty obvious at this point that unless they can pull some magic out of the hat, (pivotal FA signings), the Jazz are either in a downward spiral. Poker at its finest, down on chips, needing a good hand. Damn, I need something to get excited about and it is not the Core 4 leading the Jazz into relevancy again. Are we witnessing the wheels falling off the Jazz bus or is masterful FO moves going to blow us away with their brilliance?

I'll be your huckleberry, I think our core can be contenders. Next year nope but maybe four to five years, yea. Someone help me out here. how many years was MJ before he won it all? Chit how many years before stock and malone got to the big show? I remember thinking none of those guys would get there.

Well, Ricardo, thing about the NBA is great players tend to be fingered early on. S & M potential was known. This group of three has plenty of talent and can pay fo sho, but they have to defy all odds to be real sick. I see the potential in each, Kanter most, Hayward next, and favors the wild card even though he will be in demand with that skill set, but they aren't all becoming all stars unless God aligns the stars and makes some wishes come true.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
MTJazz
All Star
avatar

Posts : 729
Points : 812
Reputation : 37
Join date : 2012-04-27

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Thu May 02, 2013 12:46 pm

Professo_Sloan wrote:

Well, Ricardo, thing about the NBA is great players tend to be fingered early on. S & M potential was known. This group of three has plenty of talent and can pay fo sho, but they have to defy all odds to be real sick. I see the potential in each, Kanter most, Hayward next, and favors the wild card even though he will be in demand with that skill set, but they aren't all becoming all stars unless God aligns the stars and makes some wishes come true.

Tend to agree here. I think Kanter, GH and Favors are fantastic pieces but they need two more fantastic pieces around them and a complimentary bench before the Jazz ever contend again. Rubber is hitting the road in Jazzland - do they aspire to be cannon fodder for Spurs/OKC every year or do they make moves now that make them relevant again? think about the problems doing this...Sap, Mo and Big Al plus these kids don't look like a future so an improvement means not only the young bucks getting better but getting new talent on board better than Sap, Mo and Big Al. Tall freakin' order!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Richardale
All Star
avatar

Posts : 657
Points : 726
Reputation : 22
Join date : 2012-04-26
Age : 52
Location : Hell in the summer. St george

PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Thu May 02, 2013 1:07 pm

MTJazz wrote:
Professo_Sloan wrote:

Well, Ricardo, thing about the NBA is great players tend to be fingered early on. S & M potential was known. This group of three has plenty of talent and can pay fo sho, but they have to defy all odds to be real sick. I see the potential in each, Kanter most, Hayward next, and favors the wild card even though he will be in demand with that skill set, but they aren't all becoming all stars unless God aligns the stars and makes some wishes come true.

Tend to agree here. I think Kanter, GH and Favors are fantastic pieces but they need two more fantastic pieces around them and a complimentary bench before the Jazz ever contend again. Rubber is hitting the road in Jazzland - do they aspire to be cannon fodder for Spurs/OKC every year or do they make moves now that make them relevant again? think about the problems doing this...Sap, Mo and Big Al plus these kids don't look like a future so an improvement means not only the young bucks getting better but getting new talent on board better than Sap, Mo and Big Al. Tall freakin' order!


I think that fire is just aroud the corner and i think they, the young guns are dieing to put there mark on the game. Your right, we will see next year!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   

Back to top Go down
 
The state of the Utah Jazz.
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 6Go to page : 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Juevol Myles signs with Elite 8 Kansas State University
» Michaux State Forest ~ Big Flat ATV Ride
» Ryan Bourgeois - Keene State College Owls
» Bryan O'Leary - Keene State College Owls
» Gopher State Buick Club show May 3rd

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Utah Jazz Nation :: The Utah Jazz-
Jump to: