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 The state of the Utah Jazz.

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dongibby
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:49 am

Trollificus wrote:
ps) I also like Don's idea (from Monday) of picking up Reddick. He's become a good, smart, disciplined player-good shooter, and he had excellent assist numbers while he was with Orlando last year. A good bench contributor. Also, Kyle Freakin' Korver! He would come back in a minute (I think), and he was solid with Atlanta when healthy last year.

When I watch Reddick play I always think he is the kind of player the Jazz is looking for and I see a lot of Horny in him in what he brings to the court, if the Jazz could sign him as a free-agent this summer I think they should jump all over it.
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:51 pm

dongibby wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:
Amen brother, say it again. I'm with you 100%.

Although now, it seems Larkin is creeping up, and I think it's less likely we have Schroeder and Larkin both available at 14 and 21. So I'd like to get one, today I lean toward Schroeder actually, though it was Larkin yesterday.
If we grab one of them at 14, I'm not sure who else I'd want at 21 if the other is gone. But if it's a big, I love Kabongo late at 46. What a perfect risk for a young team.

I know that the Jazz need a PG but if Zeller is at 14 I don't know that they walk away from that and look to get the PG they need at 21 but I think if Schoreder is there they take him for sure. If there is a big like Plumlee, Kelly Olynyk, Rudy Gobert or Gorgui Dieng at 21 then they pick one and then picking up Kabongo with the 46th pick would be a very good draft for the Jazz IMO.

Kabongo, making uncontested jumpers. Sounds good here, but you'll notice from the first workout tape that the jumper he hits is real slow. Small problem, if his passing is as good as advertised. He isn't as fast as Larkin, his vertical is probably a full foot less and he's not near the shooter, but apparently has a lot of upside. He's been on the scouts' radar for a long time.
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PostSubject: Over Foy   Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:12 am

dongibby wrote:
Trollificus wrote:
ps) I also like Don's idea (from Monday) of picking up Reddick. He's become a good, smart, disciplined player-good shooter, and he had excellent assist numbers while he was with Orlando last year. A good bench contributor. Also, Kyle Freakin' Korver! He would come back in a minute (I think), and he was solid with Atlanta when healthy last year.

When I watch Reddick play I always think he is the kind of player the Jazz is looking for and I see a lot of Horny in him in what he brings to the court, if the Jazz could sign him as a free-agent this summer I think they should jump all over it.

I agree with picking up Reddick, as opposed to resigning Foy. Foy shoots the three ball adequately, but falls short of what I think Reddick would bring in several areas. Most importantly, he's one who has been an effective bench player, so perhaps, Corbin wouldn't feel obligated to start him, if bringing him in off the bench is a much more effective way to play him. Foy off the bench would have been okay, but I fear if they resign him, Corbin will continue to start him, hence my preferance they look elsewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:55 am

Heard D.Locke on local sports radio this morning say that Favors has stayed in Utah so far this off season instead of going home to Georgia. He said that Favors is taking his role as a future star of the team very seriously so far this summer and has been impressed.
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:36 am

zero24gravity wrote:
Heard D.Locke on local sports radio this morning say that Favors has stayed in Utah so far this off season instead of going home to Georgia. He said that Favors is taking his role as a future star of the team very seriously so far this summer and has been impressed.

Hayward seems to be doing the same, i've seen a couple interviews where he talked about it, and he's been tweeting about his summer workouts, which seem to be a continuous rotation of various fitness and basketball clinics. I know both of then have already been to P3 this summer and will be back.

It.s a shame Kanter is hurt hurt, I think he really wants to be a part of that, and I think he had more of a confident vocal personality that often lends itself to leadership.
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:20 pm

TheMagnus wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:
Heard D.Locke on local sports radio this morning say that Favors has stayed in Utah so far this off season instead of going home to Georgia. He said that Favors is taking his role as a future star of the team very seriously so far this summer and has been impressed.

Hayward seems to be doing the same, i've seen a couple interviews where he talked about it, and he's been tweeting about his summer workouts, which seem to be a continuous rotation of various fitness and basketball clinics. I know both of then have already been to P3 this summer and will be back.

It.s a shame Kanter is hurt hurt, I think he really wants to be a part of that, and I think he had more of a confident vocal personality that often lends itself to leadership.

I don't see why Kanter cant still be doing a lot of cardio with the injury he got?
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:20 pm

Richardale wrote:
TheMagnus wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:
Heard D.Locke on local sports radio this morning say that Favors has stayed in Utah so far this off season instead of going home to Georgia. He said that Favors is taking his role as a future star of the team very seriously so far this summer and has been impressed.

Hayward seems to be doing the same, i've seen a couple interviews where he talked about it, and he's been tweeting about his summer workouts, which seem to be a continuous rotation of various fitness and basketball clinics. I know both of then have already been to P3 this summer and will be back.

It.s a shame Kanter is hurt hurt, I think he really wants to be a part of that, and I think he had more of a confident vocal personality that often lends itself to leadership.

I don't see why Kanter cant still be doing a lot of cardio with the injury he got?

I'm sure The Beast is doing all that cardio and more......and Calgary is probably DYING to see some of those pics Basketball
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:44 pm

Mutangclan wrote:
Richardale wrote:
TheMagnus wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:
Heard D.Locke on local sports radio this morning say that Favors has stayed in Utah so far this off season instead of going home to Georgia. He said that Favors is taking his role as a future star of the team very seriously so far this summer and has been impressed.

Hayward seems to be doing the same, i've seen a couple interviews where he talked about it, and he's been tweeting about his summer workouts, which seem to be a continuous rotation of various fitness and basketball clinics. I know both of then have already been to P3 this summer and will be back.

It.s a shame Kanter is hurt hurt, I think he really wants to be a part of that, and I think he had more of a confident vocal personality that often lends itself to leadership.

I don't see why Kanter cant still be doing a lot of cardio with the injury he got?

I'm sure The Beast is doing all that cardio and more......and Calgary is probably DYING to see some of those pics Basketball

Well we all agree (even Calg) that what Kanter needs right now is more time on the basketball court, learning basketball skills, not on a bicycle maintaining his 8 pack abs.

I'm sure he'll be fine, but I think these kinds of setbacks have a much greater impact on a players development than how many minutes they play during the season. At his age and with his raw ability the worst thing that can happen to him is to lose whole months of time that he would have otherwise been spending playing and practicing his skills. I'd almost rather him be injured during the season than during the summer. Last summer he made HUGE gains as a player. Those kinds of gains only come from dedicated practice and training, and you can't do that kind of work during the grueling NBA season.
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:27 pm

Final decision. I want Schroeder drafted at 14, and Calderon signed this offseason. Schroeder has quickness you cant teach, athleticism you can't teach, and a good jumpshot. Calderon has the PG skills to teach/mentor Schroeder with that he needs seasoning on.

In the mean time, Calderon is more than capable, more like great at handling the PG duties next season.
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:59 pm

Mutangclan wrote:
Final decision. I want Schroeder drafted at 14, and Calderon signed this offseason. Schroeder has quickness you cant teach, athleticism you can't teach, and a good jumpshot. Calderon has the PG skills to teach/mentor Schroeder with that he needs seasoning on.

In the mean time, Calderon is more than capable, more like great at handling the PG duties next season.

Ok, I'm in, lets do this thing. Do we take a project big with #21? Or another PG to push Schroeder? Schroeder's stock is falling which is a good thing for the Jazz. Mark my words on Schroeder - Tony Parker speed, quicks and vision. He is young enough to put on weight and get that JS pro game ready.
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:09 pm

And meanwhile, Jeremy Evans gets even more vertical at P3
http://jazzland.blogs.deseretnews.com/2013/06/10/maybe-jeremy-evans-really-is-a-human-pogo-stick/

I want to see a hella more JE this season!
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:27 pm

MTJazz wrote:
And meanwhile, Jeremy Evans gets even more vertical at P3
http://jazzland.blogs.deseretnews.com/2013/06/10/maybe-jeremy-evans-really-is-a-human-pogo-stick/

I want to see a hella more JE this season!

I am telling you if Evens outside shot is as good as it looked at the end of last season then there is no reason he can't get playing time at the SF position, now that teams are going to have to guard him from the outside it is going to open up the court for him to drive to the basket witch is going to make him very hard to guard at that position.
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:54 pm

MTJazz wrote:
And meanwhile, Jeremy Evans gets even more vertical at P3
http://jazzland.blogs.deseretnews.com/2013/06/10/maybe-jeremy-evans-really-is-a-human-pogo-stick/

I want to see a hella more JE this season!

Amen to that!

Just to put that jump in perspective, DraftExpress keeps a database of these types of measurements going back to the 2001 combine and even includes some verified measurements from before that...

The highest vert reach recorded in that database is 12' 5.5". That was this year by 6'5" DJ Stephens who has a ridiculous 46 inch vertical. Evans beat that by a full 2". Dwight Howards best pre-draft jump was 12' 3", undoubtedly he could do better than that in his prime, but probably not 5" better.
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:55 pm

MTJazz wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:
Final decision. I want Schroeder drafted at 14, and Calderon signed this offseason. Schroeder has quickness you cant teach, athleticism you can't teach, and a good jumpshot. Calderon has the PG skills to teach/mentor Schroeder with that he needs seasoning on.

In the mean time, Calderon is more than capable, more like great at handling the PG duties next season.

Ok, I'm in, lets do this thing. Do we take a project big with #21? Or another PG to push Schroeder? Schroeder's stock is falling which is a good thing for the Jazz. Mark my words on Schroeder - Tony Parker speed, quicks and vision. He is young enough to put on weight and get that JS pro game ready.

I think you take the BPA at #21, and I'm hoping it's Larkin. We do have not just one, but two real holes on our bench at PG. I dont think Larkin or Schroeder will be there, but if so, thats definitely my pick.
I think there are alot more bigs to be had in FA that have at least already proved themselves some. Carl Landry or Hickson for example. Paul Millsap.......
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:54 pm

Mutangclan wrote:


I think you take the BPA at #21, and I'm hoping it's Larkin. We do have not just one, but two real holes on our bench at PG. I dont think Larkin or Schroeder will be there, but if so, thats definitely my pick.
I think there are alot more bigs to be had in FA that have at least already proved themselves some. Carl Landry or Hickson for example. Paul Millsap.......

You Magnus troll, you! No, I don't want Sap at $10+MM for 5 years. I really don't. He showed he is "post-Jazz" towards the end of the season and I think all parties concerned are moving on. For that kind of money we can get a more than adequate young, gung-ho "very happy to be playing for the Jazz, a great professional organization with a winning attitude etc etc etc" young prospects or two to fill in behind Kanter/Favors/JE. Key words "young" and "happy". Loved Paul, but his sourpuss said it all for me.
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:02 pm

TheMagnus wrote:
MTJazz wrote:
And meanwhile, Jeremy Evans gets even more vertical at P3
http://jazzland.blogs.deseretnews.com/2013/06/10/maybe-jeremy-evans-really-is-a-human-pogo-stick/

I want to see a hella more JE this season!

Amen to that!

Just to put that jump in perspective, DraftExpress keeps a database of these types of measurements going back to the 2001 combine and even includes some verified measurements from before that...

The highest vert reach recorded in that database is 12' 5.5". That was this year by 6'5" DJ Stephens who has a ridiculous 46 inch vertical. Evans beat that by a full 2". Dwight Howards best pre-draft jump was 12' 3", undoubtedly he could do better than that in his prime, but probably not 5" better.

That makes this even more ridiculous. We have not seen JE's ceiling by a long shot, and per Don, if he really can show up again with that jump shot, (prove it not a fluke), damn right he would be a tough customer on both sides of the floor at the 3 spot. I fantasized on this board once about JE at the 3 but was rightfully shut down at the time when it was pointed out a 3 without a JS is kind of a joke. I swear, if he could get 20 minutes (read, like 10 minutes for Marvin, GH coasting between the 3 and 2) at the 3 he would probably average 2 blocks, 2 steals and 6 RBs. Add a cool 10+ ppg on that and damn, major rotation player! For what, like 1.8 MM or something for 3 more years?
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:30 pm

MTJazz wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:


I think you take the BPA at #21, and I'm hoping it's Larkin. We do have not just one, but two real holes on our bench at PG. I dont think Larkin or Schroeder will be there, but if so, thats definitely my pick.
I think there are alot more bigs to be had in FA that have at least already proved themselves some. Carl Landry or Hickson for example. Paul Millsap.......

You Magnus troll, you! No, I don't want Sap at $10+MM for 5 years. I really don't. He showed he is "post-Jazz" towards the end of the season and I think all parties concerned are moving on. For that kind of money we can get a more than adequate young, gung-ho "very happy to be playing for the Jazz, a great professional organization with a winning attitude etc etc etc" young prospects or two to fill in behind Kanter/Favors/JE. Key words "young" and "happy". Loved Paul, but his sourpuss said it all for me.

Paul owes the jazz for steping up and giving him a shot in this league but i think its time for both parties to move on. Wish him the best and i don't think its with the jazz next year. Not for the money he's gonna want..
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:52 pm

MTJazz wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:


I think you take the BPA at #21, and I'm hoping it's Larkin. We do have not just one, but two real holes on our bench at PG. I dont think Larkin or Schroeder will be there, but if so, thats definitely my pick.
I think there are alot more bigs to be had in FA that have at least already proved themselves some. Carl Landry or Hickson for example. Paul Millsap.......

You Magnus troll, you! No, I don't want Sap at $10+MM for 5 years. I really don't. He showed he is "post-Jazz" towards the end of the season and I think all parties concerned are moving on. For that kind of money we can get a more than adequate young, gung-ho "very happy to be playing for the Jazz, a great professional organization with a winning attitude etc etc etc" young prospects or two to fill in behind Kanter/Favors/JE. Key words "young" and "happy". Loved Paul, but his sourpuss said it all for me.

A 4 year guaranteed deal is the most I can see Millsap getting, mostly because that is all anybody but the Jazz can offer him.

Millsap is the #1 guy I'd like to see back, but the price would have to be right, and ultimately it is up to him. I know a lot of Jazz fans have soured on him, but I think that is misplaced and unfair, he's been nothing but a total pro and a Jazz man in the purest and truest sense of the word for 7 years. If he was willing to come back I think we would be freaking lucky to have him.

That being said, if the Jazz go and draft another PF/C type like Adams or Zeller or Olnyk It would be hard to see being able to justify signing a any vet big like Millsap to a long term contract.

If they don't draft a big, I still think the Jazz should be willing to offer him a front loaded 4 year deal with a 5th year option in the neighborhood of 40 Mil guaranteed. It looks something like 11/10.2/9.5/8.9/8.5(TO), it helps the Jazz meet minimum salary in the short term and then gets more reasonable as time goes on. I think he is perfect as a versatile utility guy who can start or come off the bench, he's a perfect compliment to both Favors and Kanter, and 10 Mil a year is not unreasonable for player of that caliber. He's effectively the same player as David West, and West has been making 9-10 Mil a year for several years with nary a word about him being overpaid.

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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:25 pm

MTJazz wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:


I think you take the BPA at #21, and I'm hoping it's Larkin. We do have not just one, but two real holes on our bench at PG. I dont think Larkin or Schroeder will be there, but if so, thats definitely my pick.
I think there are alot more bigs to be had in FA that have at least already proved themselves some. Carl Landry or Hickson  for example. Paul Millsap.......


MtjazzYou Magnus troll, you!  No, I don't want Sap at $10+MM for 5 years.  I really don't.  He showed he is "post-Jazz" towards the end of the season and I think all parties concerned are moving on.  For that kind of money we can get a more than adequate young, gung-ho "very happy to be playing for the Jazz, a great professional organization with a winning attitude etc etc etc"  young prospects or two to fill in behind  Kanter/Favors/JE.  Key words "young" and "happy".  Loved Paul, but his sourpuss said it all for me.

Haha, Magnus Troll....nice. Here's my view though. Paul was a bit sour, but you know what I think it was?? I think it was him being tired of everything going through Al and the team LOSING because of it. Remember, Corbin's stupid @ss was sitting Paul when he should of been sitting Al. Corbin and others were so sucked into the idea that Al's 20 and 10 was the best way to win, when in fact it was ONLY 20 and 10 because everyone else couldn't do much standing around watching him. Paul knew, and knows that this team is BETTER WITHOUT Al Jefferson on the court. I bet you, that if Al is not resigned, and Paul is, and this team gets to a sharing the ball, moving the ball, 5 options on offense instead of just one, AND, winning (or 110% effort toward that). Then that Paul would be back to the Paul Millsap we know. And love.

Not to mention, Magnus is right, he's a perfect compliment (and veteran leader) to Kanter and Favors.
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:03 pm

Mutangclan wrote:
MTJazz wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:


I think you take the BPA at #21, and I'm hoping it's Larkin. We do have not just one, but two real holes on our bench at PG. I dont think Larkin or Schroeder will be there, but if so, thats definitely my pick.
I think there are alot more bigs to be had in FA that have at least already proved themselves some. Carl Landry or Hickson  for example. Paul Millsap.......






MtjazzYou Magnus troll, you!  No, I don't want Sap at $10+MM for 5 years.  I really don't.  He showed he is "post-Jazz" towards the end of the season and I think all parties concerned are moving on.  For that kind of money we can get a more than adequate young, gung-ho "very happy to be playing for the Jazz, a great professional organization with a winning attitude etc etc etc"  young prospects or two to fill in behind  Kanter/Favors/JE.  Key words "young" and "happy".  Loved Paul, but his sourpuss said it all for me.





Haha, Magnus Troll....nice. Here's my view though. Paul was a bit sour, but you know what I think it was?? I think it was him being tired of everything going through Al and the team LOSING because of it. Remember, Corbin's stupid @ss was sitting Paul when he should of been sitting Al. Corbin and others were so sucked into the idea that Al's 20 and 10 was the best way to win, when in fact it was ONLY 20 and 10 because everyone else couldn't do much standing around watching him. Paul knew, and knows that this team is BETTER WITHOUT Al Jefferson on the court. I bet you, that if Al is not resigned, and Paul is, and this team gets to a sharing the ball, moving the ball, 5 options on offense instead of just one, AND, winning (or 110% effort toward that). Then that Paul would be back to the Paul Millsap we know. And love.

Not to mention, Magnus is right, he's a perfect compliment (and veteran leader) to Kanter and Favors.





News i was hearing was Paul soured not with Al but with the youth / core 4 of the team? And if that was true no way Paul is looking at coming back to the jazz without a huge deal in place that will not happen. Youth of the team is today not in five years. Time to see what Favors and Kanter can do when given there shot. Jazz may sign a vet and bring Kanter off the bench one more year, Maybe? And if they draft a big with one of our picks, he'll be 3rd or 4th with J.E  playing a little at the 4. Mo or Al stands a better chance to be back i bet before Millsap? And i give them about a 50 50 chance. If i signed either one its to do a trade with another team for a pick, Maybe like the Mavs? Then bundle two picks and move up for best player on the board?


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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:17 pm

MTJazz wrote:
And meanwhile, Jeremy Evans gets even more vertical at P3
http://jazzland.blogs.deseretnews.com/2013/06/10/maybe-jeremy-evans-really-is-a-human-pogo-stick/

I want to see a hella more JE this season!
He can kill himself exploding his head pintó the roof.
Corbin will still bench him.
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:25 pm

TheMagnus wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:
Richardale wrote:
TheMagnus wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:
Heard D.Locke on local sports radio this morning say that Favors has stayed in Utah so far this off season instead of going home to Georgia. He said that Favors is taking his role as a future star of the team very seriously so far this summer and has been impressed.





Hayward seems to be doing the same, i've seen a couple interviews where he talked about it, and he's been tweeting about his summer workouts, which seem to be a continuous rotation of various fitness and basketball clinics. I know both of then have already been to P3 this summer and will be back.

 It.s a shame Kanter is hurt hurt, I think he really wants to be a part of that, and I think he had more of a confident vocal personality that often lends itself to leadership.





I don't see why Kanter cant still be doing a lot of cardio with the injury he got?





I'm sure The Beast is doing all that cardio and more......and Calgary is probably DYING to see some of those pics  Basketball





Well we all agree (even Calg) that what Kanter needs right now is more time on the basketball court, learning basketball skills, not on a bicycle maintaining his 8 pack abs.  

I'm sure he'll be fine, but I think these kinds of setbacks have a much greater impact on a players development than how many minutes they play during the season.  At his age and with his raw ability the worst thing that can happen to him is to lose whole months of time that he would have otherwise been spending playing and practicing his skills.  I'd almost rather him be injured during the season than during the summer.  Last summer he made HUGE gains as a player.  Those kinds of gains only come from dedicated practice and training, and you can't do that kind of work during the grueling NBA season.


And some coches try and ruin all the hard job by underutilizing the player... Kanter's coach is affecting him much more than this injury.
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:57 am

What do you guys think about snagging either Ridnour or Barea as the backup PG behind the soon to be rookie backup PG?  Rumor has it Wolves are looking to move both.  I think both those guys would be affordable and very competent and might have enough juice to push the veteran starting PG we all know is coming.
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:11 am

MTJazz wrote:
What do you guys think about snagging either Ridnour or Barea as the backup PG behind the soon to be rookie backup PG?  Rumor has it Wolves are looking to move both.  I think both those guys would be affordable and very competent and might have enough juice to push the veteran starting PG we all know is coming.

I like Ridnour. A Jazz PG duo of draft pick+ Luke isn't as good as Calderon (or other good Fa PG)+rookie, but would be less expensive and would give the rookie a better chance of real PT , since Calderon would demand big minutes. Barea would be fine as a third PG. What I wouldn't want is Calderon, Ridnour and a rookie PG, because I doubt the rook would ever see the floor.
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PostSubject: Re: The state of the Utah Jazz.   Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:15 am

zero24gravity wrote:
MTJazz wrote:
What do you guys think about snagging either Ridnour or Barea as the backup PG behind the soon to be rookie backup PG?  Rumor has it Wolves are looking to move both.  I think both those guys would be affordable and very competent and might have enough juice to push the veteran starting PG we all know is coming.

I like Ridnour.  A Jazz PG duo of draft pick+ Luke isn't as good as Calderon (or other good Fa PG)+rookie, but would be less expensive and would give the rookie a better chance of real PT , since Calderon would demand big minutes. Barea would be fine as a third PG. What I wouldn't want is Calderon, Ridnour and a rookie PG,  because I doubt the rook would ever see the floor.


You know the Jazz are resigning Mo for two more years? Mo and Randy, Maybe big Al for two more years. I hope i'm wrong!
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The state of the Utah Jazz.
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