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 Will Rose Return?

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Professo_Sloan
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PostSubject: Will Rose Return?   Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:13 pm

He should. Given Westbrook its opportunistic.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Rose Return?   Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:13 am

It's a strange situation for Rose. I don't know the technicalities of his injury status-- but, I have to guess he's pretty well healed. I don't think he can come back and start, or even play a lot of minutes. Heinrich and Robinson are the Bulls' functioning pgs, and you don't want to mess with their team chemistry. However, if he can play 5 minutes without hurting their team, I think that would help both him and Chicago if they advance to the 2nd round (and, it looks like they will).
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PostSubject: Re: Will Rose Return?   Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:31 am

Ya, I wonder if he is worried about team chemistry, and/or maybe if he feels like he doesn't deserve to be out there since he basically chose to sit the last part of the season, or if it is just his own mental state that he can't get past like Tom Cruise in Days of Thunder.

Who knows, seems pertty unlikely at this point that he'd try to do the dramatic-entrace-superhero routine, feels like he kind of missed his window there.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Rose Return?   Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:28 pm

It might be worth pointing out, given Reinsdorf's reputation, that if Rose DOESN'T play, the insurance company covers his $16 mill salary.

Just sayin'...
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PostSubject: Re: Will Rose Return?   Wed May 01, 2013 12:06 am

TheMagnus wrote:
Ya, I wonder if he is worried about team chemistry, and/or maybe if he feels like he doesn't deserve to be out there since he basically chose to sit the last part of the season, or if it is just his own mental state that he can't get past like Tom Cruise in Days of Thunder.

Who knows, seems pertty unlikely at this point that he'd try to do the dramatic-entrace-superhero routine, feels like he kind of missed his window there.

Troll points out a financial aspect as to why Rose might sit out. I don't understand the intricacies of that, so I won't respond to it just yet.

As for Rose returning (financial implications aside), I think Rose should make a go of it. I don't think he should return as a super-hero., but as a 3rd string option at pg with severe game-time limitations. It truly would be a miracle if Rose could have a serious impact in the 2nd round. But, that is what I would go for if I had control over the Bull's lineups and Rose's mind! As it stands, the Bulls have a serious shot at making it to the 2nd round. If Rose is 100%, or even close to 100%, I think Rose should get back now rather than waiting till next year.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Rose Return?   Wed May 01, 2013 6:58 am

Saint Louis wrote:
TheMagnus wrote:
Ya, I wonder if he is worried about team chemistry, and/or maybe if he feels like he doesn't deserve to be out there since he basically chose to sit the last part of the season, or if it is just his own mental state that he can't get past like Tom Cruise in Days of Thunder.

Who knows, seems pertty unlikely at this point that he'd try to do the dramatic-entrace-superhero routine, feels like he kind of missed his window there.

Troll points out a financial aspect as to why Rose might sit out. I don't understand the intricacies of that, so I won't respond to it just yet.

As for Rose returning (financial implications aside), I think Rose should make a go of it. I don't think he should return as a super-hero., but as a 3rd string option at pg with severe game-time limitations. It truly would be a miracle if Rose could have a serious impact in the 2nd round. But, that is what I would go for if I had control over the Bull's lineups and Rose's mind! As it stands, the Bulls have a serious shot at making it to the 2nd round. If Rose is 100%, or even close to 100%, I think Rose should get back now rather than waiting till next year.

I haven't heard why he isn't back already. From everything I have read he is cleared to play and has been for months.

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PostSubject: "Faded" Rose and the Strassberg Syndrome   Mon May 06, 2013 12:46 pm

Yeah, it's gotten beyond weird.

He was actually cleared for full-on, full-court scrimmaging back in FEBRUARY, has been participating fully in practice, and in what must be considered an unusual, if not downright mystifying PR move, has been wowing the fans with pre-game, warmup and practice dunks for over a month (off either leg).

[insert obligatory "It's his body and he shouldn't play until he's 100% comfortable." statement here]

He says he "Not comfortable.". He's said he won't play until he's 100%. Fine.

But a) his teammates are KILLING themselves playing through injuries, and WINNING,

b) nobody CARES if he's 'comfortable' and

c) he doesn't have to be 100%. 100%??? Gee...at this point, when they're down to about 7 players, he's only got to be whatever percent is better than a crippled Kirk Hinrich in his 50th through 58th minutes in a triple overtime game. Think you could manage to be better than Marco Bellinelli for a few minutes, Derrick?? Even at only 95%??

Also d) the only reason anybody cares about his health at all is so he can play a game. And not just playing it, but trying to win a championship. (I don't think this pertinent fact was somehow hidden from Mr. Rose and his representatives.) So staying out until it gets to the really important games, the ones that actually count towards "winning a championship", well that just makes sense. But wait!! Aren't the Bulls...let me check...yeah, THESE ARE THOSE GAMES, MR. ROSE, a fact your coach and teammates seem to be well aware of. Matter of fact, the fans and ownership of the Bulls also have noted this (those are the stakeholders in this enterprise whose contribution is to pay, directly and indirectly, your wages).

No, nothing I can figure explains his vacillation. Maybe he's concerned that playing at less than 100% would damage his reputation?? Hell, I'd imagine the shoe company he is under contact with is becoming "uncomfortable" with his representation of their products, maybe even "less than 100%" certain of their commitment to him and his Anti-Adrian-Peterson approach. And those shoe contracts are very, VERY dissimilar to the iron-clad, rock-solid, "you get every penny no matter what" NBA player contracts.

Maybe he really IS unaware of how this looks. He claimed to the press the other day that he wasn't aware of any criticism related to his "maybe I'll play but I'm really enjoying watching my teammate kill themselves out there so maybe not" stance. Unaware. With the entire population of Chicago buzzing about it. With his team playing in from of the New York press. Somebody said something about it?

As Fezzini the Sicilian might have said..."Inconceivable!!"
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PostSubject: Re: Will Rose Return?   Mon May 06, 2013 5:35 pm

Here's some Bill Simmons commentary on the D-Rose situation. Believe it or not, he blames Gilbert Arenas....

Quote :

Q: Can you hold it against Derrick Rose for not coming back?

Absolutely not. See, Gilbert Arenas affected the NBA in four ways …

1. He's the first NBA star who tapped into the potential of connecting with fans on the Internet (with his groundbreaking Agent Zero blog). Then Twitter happened, and Facebook, and Instagram, and now we're at a point where Kobe could run for president because he's so good at social media. In fact, I think I'd vote for him in 2016. As long as he wasn't running with Dwight Howard.

2. After he bolted Golden State for the Wizards, they named a rule after him — the Gilbert Arenas provision, which makes it easier for teams to sign their own restricted free agents who were second-round picks.

3. They also named three unwritten rules after him: "Don't bet large sums of money with teammates during poker games on chartered flights," "Don't bring guns into the locker room for any reason," and "Don't give someone a massive nine-figure contract if you're not positive he's healthy."

4. He's the all-time "came back too soon" cautionary tale for anyone who suffered a major knee injury. Gilbert tore a meniscus near the tail end of the 2006-07 season, came back too soon, reinjured it in November, missed much of the season, came back too soon a second time, reinjured his knee in the playoffs, came back too soon the following fall, had a third surgery, and ended up playing 15 games total in two years. Make no mistake — he was NEVER the same.

Now? He's a cautionary tale, the name that floats through the head of any player who wants to keep pushing himself to play, feels really good … but doesn't totally trust his knee yet. Magic Johnson's biggest professional regret is coming back too soon during the 1981 season. He knew his surgically repaired knee didn't feel right, but as Magic tells it, you start feeling that pressure from every direction. Fans, teammates, coaches, the owner, you name it. And it's not even intentional. Might even be something as simple as someone saying, "How's the knee feeling?," only they make eye contact for an extra second and you start thinking, Does he not believe me? You get in your own head. You feel guilty all the time. Your confidence is shaken. You can't do the one thing that always came easiest to you. So you start pushing yourself to come back, tricking yourself, convincing yourself to feel a certain way. And that's when you can get in trouble.

As Magic put it, When you're ready, you know. If you're wondering even a little? Then you don't know. I think that's where Derrick Rose is right now. He's in his own head. He doesn't totally trust his knee yet. His hammies still hurt. And yet … he feels horrible that he can't help his team. So he's vacillating, and fortunately, GILBERT ARENAS keeps flashing through his head in all caps. Over everything else, that's Arenas's real legacy. Nobody wants to be The Next Guy Who Came Back Too Soon.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9239387/thirty-questions-part-2
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PostSubject: Re: Will Rose Return?   Tue May 07, 2013 1:37 am

Trollificus wrote:
Yeah, it's gotten beyond weird.

He was actually cleared for full-on, full-court scrimmaging back in FEBRUARY, has been participating fully in practice, and in what must be considered an unusual, if not downright mystifying PR move, has been wowing the fans with pre-game, warmup and practice dunks for over a month (off either leg).

[insert obligatory "It's his body and he shouldn't play until he's 100% comfortable." statement here]

He says he "Not comfortable.". He's said he won't play until he's 100%. Fine.

But a) his teammates are KILLING themselves playing through injuries, and WINNING,

b) nobody CARES if he's 'comfortable' and

c) he doesn't have to be 100%. 100%??? Gee...at this point, when they're down to about 7 players, he's only got to be whatever percent is better than a crippled Kirk Hinrich in his 50th through 58th minutes in a triple overtime game. Think you could manage to be better than Marco Bellinelli for a few minutes, Derrick?? Even at only 95%??

Also d) the only reason anybody cares about his health at all is so he can play a game. And not just playing it, but trying to win a championship. (I don't think this pertinent fact was somehow hidden from Mr. Rose and his representatives.) So staying out until it gets to the really important games, the ones that actually count towards "winning a championship", well that just makes sense. But wait!! Aren't the Bulls...let me check...yeah, THESE ARE THOSE GAMES, MR. ROSE, a fact your coach and teammates seem to be well aware of. Matter of fact, the fans and ownership of the Bulls also have noted this (those are the stakeholders in this enterprise whose contribution is to pay, directly and indirectly, your wages).

No, nothing I can figure explains his vacillation. Maybe he's concerned that playing at less than 100% would damage his reputation?? Hell, I'd imagine the shoe company he is under contact with is becoming "uncomfortable" with his representation of their products, maybe even "less than 100%" certain of their commitment to him and his Anti-Adrian-Peterson approach. And those shoe contracts are very, VERY dissimilar to the iron-clad, rock-solid, "you get every penny no matter what" NBA player contracts.

Maybe he really IS unaware of how this looks. He claimed to the press the other day that he wasn't aware of any criticism related to his "maybe I'll play but I'm really enjoying watching my teammate kill themselves out there so maybe not" stance. Unaware. With the entire population of Chicago buzzing about it. With his team playing in from of the New York press. Somebody said something about it?

As Fezzini the Sicilian might have said..."Inconceivable!!"

Yep. 100% correct with bonus points for bringing in a "Princess Bride" reference! Plus, after my last post on this subject, David Lee came in and played two minutes for GS after his "season ending injury!" All Rose needs to do right now is dress up and come in as a 3rd string pg. It doesn't matter if he wins a game for the Bulls as long as he doesn't lose a game for the Bulls. There is no player on the Bulls team that could lose it for the Bulls in five minutes of play. At the same time, if Rose has a decent five minutes one game, a decent seven minutes the next game, a decent twelve minutes the next game, there is no reason why he couldn't be an important CHI player by the time game 5 rolls around against MIA. Of course, it would have been better if he came back a game or two ago, so he might be ready to have an impact in game 3 of the MIA series. But, maybe CHI would have lost to BKN, the possibility of which may have stopped Rose from coming back then. It's interesting (on a side note) that CHI (shy) needs a player to come back while their opponent is MIA (Missing In Action)-- there's a shy player that is definitely MIA!
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PostSubject: Re: Will Rose Return?   Wed May 08, 2013 1:34 pm

If Thibodeau is what I think he is

and if he has to say about that

- no! (I think he is team "first, scond and third" coach, with no liking to Iverson-type superstars).
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PostSubject: Here is the racist POS Whitlocks take on it.    Wed May 08, 2013 2:36 pm

I Freaking hate hate hate Jason Whitlock he is a racist and tries to make everything into, the Man exploiting a young black man. We aren't supposed to talk about race on here, Hell it's my rule, but this guys is a freaking joke.

have a read.


So the kid who survived the South Side of Chicago, one of America’s harshest urban battlegrounds, is now a wimp. Yeah, the kid who learned the game getting bullied and beat up by three older, basketball-playing brothers has grown soft at the tender age of 24.

Derrick Rose is a p---y.

I ain’t buying it. No way. Chicago’s Englewood neighborhood swallows cowards for snacks, shortly before they complete puberty.

Rather than question Derrick Rose’s toughness maybe we should question the competence of the people running the Chicago Bulls, particularly team doctor Brian Cole, team trainer Fred Tedeschi, head coach Tom Thibodeau, executive vice president John Paxson and chairman Jerry Reinsdorf.

Maybe, just maybe, we should analyze, scrutinize and demonize the old white guys in charge of the most injury-riddled franchise in the NBA playoffs rather than the young black kid who may be a victim of their collective incompetence.

Let’s see. Joakim Noah is hobbling around with plantar fasciitis. Kirk Hinrich is sitting with a bruised left calf. Luol Deng is out with an infection after a spinal tap to determine if he had viral meningitis went wrong. Taj Gibson is ill. Nate Robinson was throwing up on the sideline in the Brooklyn series. Rip Hamilton has been in and out of the lineup all season with an assortment of ailments and injuries.

Yep, let’s go with the easy narrative — the Bulls are the gutsiest team of warriors since Seal Team 6. This is Zero Dark Windy City, and Noah symbolizes everything we love and respect about Chicago. Michael and Oprah notwithstanding, this blue-collar city isn’t really about superstars. It’s about the men and women who trudge to work every day through rain, sleet, snow and soaring summer humidity.

Or maybe the Bulls are exploited union workers tolling for a group of greedy idiots who don’t know how to properly manage talent. Maybe the Bulls are injury-riddled because Thibodeau pushes them too hard, makes his available players play too many minutes in pursuit of cementing his “legend” as the coach who gets the most out of the least.

Maybe Brian Cole, the team doctor, is completely incompetent. SB Nation’s Tom Ziller pointed out Wednesday morning that Cole let Omer Asik play two years ago with a broken leg and last year wanted Deng to play with a severe stress fracture that required four months of total rest. Ziller also reminded readers that Rose played all of last season with a wide variety of injuries that finally culminated with a torn ACL in the first round of the playoffs.

Coaches love to say that fatigue creates cowards. Fatigue also creates injuries and illness. And mishandled injuries and illness create distrust.

Derrick Rose doesn’t trust the Bulls. Should he?

Should Rose trust the Bulls the way Tim Duncan trusts the Spurs? Hell no.

Gregg Popovich and the Spurs have gone above and beyond trying to protect and pamper their superstar players. Popovich gives the finger to the NBA’s 82-game schedule and regularly sits his stars and carefully monitors their minutes.

Thibodeau is the anti-Popovich. He pushes his players to the brink and he’s celebrated for it. Jimmy Butler has played all 48 minutes in three straight games. He can rest during the offseason or when he seriously injures himself and can’t play.

The Bulls are a nice story. You can’t help but be inspired by their grit and determination. Their Game 1 playoff victory over Miami and Game 7 victory over Brooklyn are the kind of efforts that made Willis Reed and Michael Jordan famous. We love those stories. We’d love the Chicago story even more if Rose would take part in it.

But we don’t need for Rose to be a villain and a coward to properly appreciate Noah’s heroism. The villains are more than likely the guys who always wear a suit. They tossed away their medical credibility with the way they handled previous injuries.

There isn’t one piece of supporting evidence that Derrick Rose is a wimp or someone interested in shirking his leadership responsibility. There’s plenty of evidence the Bulls don’t know how to manage the health of their players.

Let’s talk about that Wednesday night as the Bulls take on the Miami Heat.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/derrick-rose-chicago-bulls-bashers-must-question-coach-staff-doctors-jason-whitlock-analysis-050813

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PostSubject: Re: Will Rose Return?   Wed May 08, 2013 2:49 pm

RE: Here is the racist POS Whitlocks take on it.


Well, I don't have enough knowledge of the Bulls to know the full extent of all these injuries, but I'd be willing to bet that, if there truly is an issue, that it has more to do with a poor team doctor than anything. He even mentioned Kirk Hinrich, who happens to be pasty-white. Could it be that management doesn't give a damn about the players health in comparison to winning? Sure, I suppose that is possible. But to even bring race into the equasion pretty much invalidates any other opinion he brings up IMO.

Take out that paragraph about race & re-read it ...... now it's a good editorial.

Keep that paragraph in & it becomes an angry person looking for a reason to whine about social issues that likely do not even exist in this particular situation.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Rose Return?   Wed May 08, 2013 2:53 pm

zero24gravity wrote:
RE: Here is the racist POS Whitlocks take on it.


Well, I don't have enough knowledge of the Bulls to know the full extent of all these injuries, but I'd be willing to bet that, if there truly is an issue, that it has more to do with a poor team doctor than anything. He even mentioned Kirk Hinrich, who happens to be pasty-white. Could it be that management doesn't give a damn about the players health in comparison to winning? Sure, I suppose that is possible. But to even bring race into the equasion pretty much invalidates any other opinion he brings up IMO.

Take out that paragraph about race & re-read it ...... now it's a good editorial.

Keep that paragraph in & it becomes an angry person looking for a reason to whine about social issues that likely do not even exist in this particular situation.

Exactly,Why bring up race at all when he had a point that could be valid? That's just what Whitlock does. He is a racist and all of his pieces are laced with racist rants.

However NOBODY takes this long to come back from that injury. It's a full calander year. and he still can't play? Funny, because he is out shooting and running and even dunking during pre game warmups.

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PostSubject: Re: Will Rose Return?   Wed May 08, 2013 4:44 pm

Iverson was a tough guy also (may be - also, I'm not convinced about Rose). I can admire his spirit... it was bright, but that was not a team spirit.

And, by the way, Duncan just recently almost died on the court.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Rose Return?   Wed May 08, 2013 5:57 pm

Romoholic wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:
RE: Here is the racist POS Whitlocks take on it.


Well, I don't have enough knowledge of the Bulls to know the full extent of all these injuries, but I'd be willing to bet that, if there truly is an issue, that it has more to do with a poor team doctor than anything. He even mentioned Kirk Hinrich, who happens to be pasty-white. Could it be that management doesn't give a damn about the players health in comparison to winning? Sure, I suppose that is possible. But to even bring race into the equasion pretty much invalidates any other opinion he brings up IMO.

Take out that paragraph about race & re-read it ...... now it's a good editorial.

Keep that paragraph in & it becomes an angry person looking for a reason to whine about social issues that likely do not even exist in this particular situation.

Exactly,Why bring up race at all when he had a point that could be valid? That's just what Whitlock does. He is a racist and all of his pieces are laced with racist rants.

However NOBODY takes this long to come back from that injury. It's a full calander year. and he still can't play? Funny, because he is out shooting and running and even dunking during pre game warmups.

Agree with both of you there. He makes some solid points, just a shame that his points are laced with blatant racism.

The fun game I like to play is replacing the word "Black" with "White" vice versa and seeing what happens...

Quote :

Maybe, just maybe, we should analyze, scrutinize and demonize the old black guys in charge of the most injury-riddled franchise in the NBA playoffs rather than the young white kid who may be a victim of their collective incompetence.

There is a 100% chance a white commentator is shouted down by every black activist in the country and fired for saying something like that.

At the same time, he makes some very solid points about sports culture and the different approaches withing different franchises to player health.

At the SAME time, he talks about Rose like he's still just some kid from the projects, and not part of the .1% getting paid 8 figures every year to entertain people by PLAYING SPORTS.

It's amazing how much of the American Cultural psyche is wrapped up and put on display in our collective interest in professional sports.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Rose Return?   Fri May 10, 2013 2:34 am

I think the main point is still whether Rose is healthy enough to return now, and whether he SHOULD return even if he IS healthy enough. (I still don't know enough about the insurance policy that will pay Rose 16 Million for not playing.) IF Rose is healthy enough to play, it would have to be for extremely limited minutes. Rose may be more valuable this year doing exactly what he is doing: sitting on the sidelines and giving advice to Robinson. There is definitely a positive impact for players to continue playing with the same team-mates as opposed to bringing in a more talented player that hasn't worked an entire year in game-time situations.

Of course, I don't completely buy that argument, particularly with Heinrich out. The Bulls are using their 3rd sting pg (who IS doing an amazing job), and using their 4th string D-League reserve as a backup. If it's chemistry, and not health issues, there is no reason Rose couldn't come back as either the 2nd or 3rd string pg. Damn, I wish I knew more about that 16 million dollar insurance policy. 16 Million dollars might still mean something, even to a pro like Rose. 16 Million is, of course, completely out of my range for calculating any sort of give and take.

I think the margin of victory for the Heat in game 2 put an end to the: "Will Rose return?" debate. The Heat basically said, "If you want Rose to return and score 40 pts. every night, then bring it on-- otherwise, we're gonna beat the crap out of you from here on out."
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