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 Gordon Hayward, Leading Scorer?

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thejazzkickazz
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PostSubject: Gordon Hayward, Leading Scorer?   Mon May 20, 2013 7:48 am

Will GH be the leading scorer on the team next season! That is my question. Is he capable? Is this what the team wants/needs? Even if Millsap and/or Jefferson, or some other decent free agent is signed? (With the unlikely exclusion of an all-star player...doubt if the Jazz will reel one in.)

It is my opinion that he can do it, if he wants, but he'll have to put up with increased defensive pressure, and he'll have to be willing to get beat up, because he'll need to get to the line more often. I think the team needs him to step up and take that role if they want to get a shot at the playoffs.
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TheMagnus
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PostSubject: Re: Gordon Hayward, Leading Scorer?   Mon May 20, 2013 8:41 am

thejazzkickazz wrote:
Will GH be the leading scorer on the team next season! That is my question. Is he capable? Is this what the team wants/needs? Even if Millsap and/or Jefferson, or some other decent free agent is signed? (With the unlikely exclusion of an all-star player...doubt if the Jazz will reel one in.)

It is my opinion that he can do it, if he wants, but he'll have to put up with increased defensive pressure, and he'll have to be willing to get beat up, because he'll need to get to the line more often. I think the team needs him to step up and take that role if they want to get a shot at the playoffs.

At this point I think that he's really the best option to do it, even if they brought back Jefferson or Millsap or Mo. He does need to attack the basket more, especially out of the pick-and-roll, but he already has all of the makings of an efficient go-to scorer. He averaged over 17 points per 36 minutes on 22% usage, In the role of the #1 option in the offense (and if Corbin stops being an idiot and plays Hayward the minutes he should) it's pretty easy to see him averaging near 20 a game next season.

The other guy that I think could emerge as option 1b: post scorer, is Enes Kanter. He has great footwork and has said that he will be trying ot add 3pt range to his jump shot. That won't happen next year, but another couple years of improvement like we saw this season and, providing he doesn't fall in love with jump shooting like Big Al did, Big Turkey could be one of the premier scoring bigs in the NBA.
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MTJazz
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PostSubject: Re: Gordon Hayward, Leading Scorer?   Mon May 20, 2013 10:43 am

No reason Hay can't be the "Man" next year and pretty sure he will be if the Jazz use this coming year as a strategic "re-building" one (not bringing in a top tier FA). And I like Mags option 1b of Kanter but really doubt Corbin will ever run an offense through him to make that happen. Ideally, I would like to see 3 players on the floor that can go off for 20+ every night so opposing teams can't just focus on one "go to" guy. As mentioned in a different post, I don't think the Jazz will ever be "Haywards" team as he is not the natural born leader type, but he sure as hell can become a premier wing and instrumental piece of the puzzle.
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Mutangclan
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PostSubject: Re: Gordon Hayward, Leading Scorer?   Mon May 20, 2013 9:28 pm

MTJazz wrote:
No reason Hay can't be the "Man" next year and pretty sure he will be if the Jazz use this coming year as a strategic "re-building" one (not bringing in a top tier FA). And I like Mags option 1b of Kanter but really doubt Corbin will ever run an offense through him to make that happen. Ideally, I would like to see 3 players on the floor that can go off for 20+ every night so opposing teams can't just focus on one "go to" guy. As mentioned in a different post, I don't think the Jazz will ever be "Haywards" team as he is not the natural born leader type, but he sure as hell can become a premier wing and instrumental piece of the puzzle.

See man, thats where I disagree. I think thats exactly what Corbin will do, because thats all he knows. He's not going to design some new offense to utilize all the guys passing abilities to go along with Burks slashing abilities, Gordo's jump shooting and getting to the bucket, Favors dives to the bucket, Kanters posts etc. That would be great coaching, putting all those guys in a position to succeed, and the team to win. Thats what's needed, an offense that has a different 20pt scorer every night------ GOOD coaching to make these guys and their talents a bit better than they are.

Alas, I DO hope I am wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: Gordon Hayward, Leading Scorer?   Tue May 21, 2013 8:37 am

Mutangclan wrote:
MTJazz wrote:
No reason Hay can't be the "Man" next year and pretty sure he will be if the Jazz use this coming year as a strategic "re-building" one (not bringing in a top tier FA). And I like Mags option 1b of Kanter but really doubt Corbin will ever run an offense through him to make that happen. Ideally, I would like to see 3 players on the floor that can go off for 20+ every night so opposing teams can't just focus on one "go to" guy. As mentioned in a different post, I don't think the Jazz will ever be "Haywards" team as he is not the natural born leader type, but he sure as hell can become a premier wing and instrumental piece of the puzzle.

See man, thats where I disagree. I think thats exactly what Corbin will do, because thats all he knows. He's not going to design some new offense to utilize all the guys passing abilities to go along with Burks slashing abilities, Gordo's jump shooting and getting to the bucket, Favors dives to the bucket, Kanters posts etc. That would be great coaching, putting all those guys in a position to succeed, and the team to win. Thats what's needed, an offense that has a different 20pt scorer every night------ GOOD coaching to make these guys and their talents a bit better than they are.

Alas, I DO hope I am wrong.

I think you both make great points here. This past year the offense often ran through Kanter and Favors when Jefferosn wasn't in the game, but Hayward also really led the second unit when he was comming off the bench, and Corbin made adjustments to the offense to have more perimeter action towards the end of the season. Be interesting to see how things settle out next year, I could see it going either way.
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ptaz66
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PostSubject: Identity   Tue May 21, 2013 4:52 pm

TheMagnus wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:
MTJazz wrote:
No reason Hay can't be the "Man" next year and pretty sure he will be if the Jazz use this coming year as a strategic "re-building" one (not bringing in a top tier FA). And I like Mags option 1b of Kanter but really doubt Corbin will ever run an offense through him to make that happen. Ideally, I would like to see 3 players on the floor that can go off for 20+ every night so opposing teams can't just focus on one "go to" guy. As mentioned in a different post, I don't think the Jazz will ever be "Haywards" team as he is not the natural born leader type, but he sure as hell can become a premier wing and instrumental piece of the puzzle.

See man, thats where I disagree. I think thats exactly what Corbin will do, because thats all he knows. He's not going to design some new offense to utilize all the guys passing abilities to go along with Burks slashing abilities, Gordo's jump shooting and getting to the bucket, Favors dives to the bucket, Kanters posts etc. That would be great coaching, putting all those guys in a position to succeed, and the team to win. Thats what's needed, an offense that has a different 20pt scorer every night------ GOOD coaching to make these guys and their talents a bit better than they are.

Alas, I DO hope I am wrong.

I think you both make great points here. This past year the offense often ran through Kanter and Favors when Jefferosn wasn't in the game, but Hayward also really led the second unit when he was comming off the bench, and Corbin made adjustments to the offense to have more perimeter action towards the end of the season. Be interesting to see how things settle out next year, I could see it going either way.

My biggest hope is we develop a semi-consistent identity and play to it. Last year the Jazz were very inconsistant, running one game, walking it up the next, playing inside out one night, jumpshooting like crazy the next. I realize no matter what, there's going to be some off nights, but changing the way you play night in and night out is one sure fire way to have more than normal. I'd like to see us push, then pull it back out if we don't get a basket on the break, look for one going to the basket on the secondary break, then play inside out in the half-court set, using hard Stockton-like screens, and hard cutting movement to get open by guys without the ball.

As pointed out we have Kanter who can post up, but it wouldn't hurt if someone set a hard screen to allow him to do it closer to the basket. Hayward and Burks both have slashing type games, which could really benefit from someone picking off the defender guarding them, allowing them to dribble penetrate and cause havoc for opposing defenses. Meanwhile, Favors would be able to get easy baskets off of penetration and dish scenarios, or offensive rebounds off of misses when defenders slide to help, something he does really well. Then, if we don't get a high percentage shot, the ball gets kicked back out to a 3 point shooter for an in rythem open shot. This is something I've noticed all four of the teams left in the playoffs do pretty well. Both of our bigs can run the floor and finish on the break, or the secondary break as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Gordon Hayward, Leading Scorer?   Wed May 22, 2013 6:18 pm

Hayward might have the highest average but I think Favors, Kanter and Burks will all have some 30 point nights.
It's all about game plan and consistancy next year.
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PostSubject: Re: Gordon Hayward, Leading Scorer?   Wed May 22, 2013 9:51 pm

rorybreaker wrote:
Hayward might have the highest average but I think Favors, Kanter and Burks will all have some 30 point nights.
It's all about game plan and consistancy next year.

Yea agree. Well, almost. I think, if Paul and Al are gone, then Gordo will average around 18 a game, but Kanter is going to be close, really close. Maybe like 17.9 Smile

Man, Corbin has got to, GOT TO get some help designing an offense that centers around these guys skills. We have really good athletes, really good scorers and if the offense isn't changed from what it was last year (which I think is ACTUALLY a freaking possibility with Tyco) this team will be top five in the lottery next year. It is a square peg in a round hole.
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PostSubject: Re: Gordon Hayward, Leading Scorer?   Wed May 22, 2013 9:58 pm

Mutangclan wrote:
rorybreaker wrote:
Hayward might have the highest average but I think Favors, Kanter and Burks will all have some 30 point nights.
It's all about game plan and consistancy next year.

Yea agree. Well, almost. I think, if Paul and Al are gone, then Gordo will average around 18 a game, but Kanter is going to be close, really close. Maybe like 17.9 Smile

Funny, where was the Kanter love last season? While Corbin was short-chaining him? What is this dynamic in the organization, anyway? Choke collar Kanter, DC and Evans and Burks less so and then suddenly call them the future kings. I've totally lost confidence in the Jazz FO with respect to hanging with Corbin's "development. Hate to say it, but is so Utah mindset, unwavering loyalty to the "system" of loyalty no matter the facts.
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PostSubject: Re: Gordon Hayward, Leading Scorer?   Wed May 22, 2013 10:18 pm

MTJazz wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:
rorybreaker wrote:
Hayward might have the highest average but I think Favors, Kanter and Burks will all have some 30 point nights.
It's all about game plan and consistancy next year.

Yea agree. Well, almost. I think, if Paul and Al are gone, then Gordo will average around 18 a game, but Kanter is going to be close, really close. Maybe like 17.9 Smile

Funny, where was the Kanter love last season? While Corbin was short-chaining him? What is this dynamic in the organization, anyway? Choke collar Kanter, DC and Evans and Burks less so and then suddenly call them the future kings. I've totally lost confidence in the Jazz FO with respect to hanging with Corbin's "development. Hate to say it, but is so Utah mindset, unwavering loyalty to the "system" of loyalty no matter the facts.

I know, you aren't asking me where the Kanter love was, hah.

I hear you man, the loyalty to loyalty, ugh. But the FO also distanced themselves from it, saying player rotations are all Corbin. So they put it in the hands of someone completely unqualified, thats the part I dont understand. Effing frustrating, and I dont understand where they're going with it. At all. I'd put money down now, they let Corbin go next year, after yet another year is lost.
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PostSubject: Re: Gordon Hayward, Leading Scorer?   Wed May 22, 2013 10:23 pm

Mutangclan wrote:
MTJazz wrote:
Mutangclan wrote:
rorybreaker wrote:
Hayward might have the highest average but I think Favors, Kanter and Burks will all have some 30 point nights.
It's all about game plan and consistancy next year.

Yea agree. Well, almost. I think, if Paul and Al are gone, then Gordo will average around 18 a game, but Kanter is going to be close, really close. Maybe like 17.9 Smile

Funny, where was the Kanter love last season? While Corbin was short-chaining him? What is this dynamic in the organization, anyway? Choke collar Kanter, DC and Evans and Burks less so and then suddenly call them the future kings. I've totally lost confidence in the Jazz FO with respect to hanging with Corbin's "development. Hate to say it, but is so Utah mindset, unwavering loyalty to the "system" of loyalty no matter the facts.

I know, you aren't asking me where the Kanter love was, hah.

I hear you man, the loyalty to loyalty, ugh. But the FO also distanced themselves from it, saying player rotations are all Corbin. So they put it in the hands of someone completely unqualified, thats the part I dont understand. Effing frustrating, and I dont understand where they're going with it. At all. I'd put money down now, they let Corbin go next year, after yet another year is lost.

Yeah, wasn't calling you out on Kanter at all, we have been on the same page. "Loyalty to loyalty", nice phrase and so true - so Utah and feels stale when compared to the rest of the league up and comers. Maybe they will make all see their smarts with Corbin, but in my book, likely not.
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