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 Jefferson and Millsap: Good Post Defenders?

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TheMagnus
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PostSubject: Jefferson and Millsap: Good Post Defenders?   Tue May 21, 2013 11:09 am

Interesting little nugget from the ESPN Stats department...

Quote :

Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap, who are both set to be unrestricted free agents, excelled at defending post-ups, limiting opponents to a 43.4 percent shooting. Their two primary back-ups, Derrick Favors and Enes Kanter, combined to allow opponents to shoot 46.5 percent from the field when defending post-ups.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/58457/advanced-stats-reveal-lottery-team-needs

I actually don't think that is too much of a surprise. The strongest part of Jeffersons D has always been defending the post, and while that has always been seen as sort of a weakness for Millsap, one thing he is very good at is poking the ball away from guys who are trying to back him down.

I think it is interesting that they would say post D was a need when A) 46% isn't really that bad for a couple 21 year olds and B) the perimeter D is even worse.

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PostSubject: Re: Jefferson and Millsap: Good Post Defenders?   Tue May 21, 2013 11:48 am

TheMagnus wrote:
Interesting little nugget from the ESPN Stats department...

Quote :

Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap, who are both set to be unrestricted free agents, excelled at defending post-ups, limiting opponents to a 43.4 percent shooting. Their two primary back-ups, Derrick Favors and Enes Kanter, combined to allow opponents to shoot 46.5 percent from the field when defending post-ups.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/58457/advanced-stats-reveal-lottery-team-needs

I actually don't think that is too much of a surprise. The strongest part of Jeffersons D has always been defending the post, and while that has always been seen as sort of a weakness for Millsap, one thing he is very good at is poking the ball away from guys who are trying to back him down.

I think it is interesting that they would say post D was a need when A) 46% isn't really that bad for a couple 21 year olds and B) the perimeter D is even worse.


Have to agree that post-D was not really much of an issue in my book or likely to be a big deal especially with maturation of Enes and Favs. Yes, a D-minded big body needs to be on the Jazz list given Sap and Al are down the road, but as the article noted a playmaker is really what is needed. Pretty stunning to see how poorly the Jazz ranked in the league wrt the pick and roll. And, I can't quite put my finger on it, but why did the perimiter D suck so bad, given the Jazz wings are fairly solid individually in that department. Is it because of the porous/non-existent D on the opposing PG or the D schemes in general that Ty ran? Thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: Jefferson and Millsap: Good Post Defenders?   Tue May 21, 2013 12:57 pm

MTJazz wrote:
TheMagnus wrote:
Interesting little nugget from the ESPN Stats department...

Quote :

Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap, who are both set to be unrestricted free agents, excelled at defending post-ups, limiting opponents to a 43.4 percent shooting. Their two primary back-ups, Derrick Favors and Enes Kanter, combined to allow opponents to shoot 46.5 percent from the field when defending post-ups.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/58457/advanced-stats-reveal-lottery-team-needs

I actually don't think that is too much of a surprise. The strongest part of Jeffersons D has always been defending the post, and while that has always been seen as sort of a weakness for Millsap, one thing he is very good at is poking the ball away from guys who are trying to back him down.

I think it is interesting that they would say post D was a need when A) 46% isn't really that bad for a couple 21 year olds and B) the perimeter D is even worse.


Have to agree that post-D was not really much of an issue in my book or likely to be a big deal especially with maturation of Enes and Favs. Yes, a D-minded big body needs to be on the Jazz list given Sap and Al are down the road, but as the article noted a playmaker is really what is needed. Pretty stunning to see how poorly the Jazz ranked in the league wrt the pick and roll. And, I can't quite put my finger on it, but why did the perimiter D suck so bad, given the Jazz wings are fairly solid individually in that department. Is it because of the porous/non-existent D on the opposing PG or the D schemes in general that Ty ran? Thoughts?

Well first thing I'd point to, was that the PG's were absolutely horrific defensively. Burks was the best of the bunch by a mile, but he played the least. The #1 minutes guy at SG was Randy Foye. He's passable defensively, sometimes, but really not that great overall, and Burks wasn't all that much better than Foye when he played shooting guard. Hayward and Marvin are both good defenders, Demarre is good but more from a team perspective than an individual man-on-man sense, and those three were hands down the best perimeter defenders from and individual perspective, but they were also not the guys that played the most minutes together.

From a coaching standpoint I agree that it felt like the sum of the parts was less than the whole, mostly because it didn't seem like the team was really being optimized to play D at any point. It felt to me like Corbin spent most of the time trying to figure out ways to mask and minimize the defenciencies of key players like Mo, and Al by changing lineups rather than developing a core defensive philosophy, and I think that really hurt the team overall.
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PostSubject: Re: Jefferson and Millsap: Good Post Defenders?   Tue May 21, 2013 5:21 pm

TheMagnus wrote:
MTJazz wrote:
TheMagnus wrote:
Interesting little nugget from the ESPN Stats department...

Quote :

Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap, who are both set to be unrestricted free agents, excelled at defending post-ups, limiting opponents to a 43.4 percent shooting. Their two primary back-ups, Derrick Favors and Enes Kanter, combined to allow opponents to shoot 46.5 percent from the field when defending post-ups.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/58457/advanced-stats-reveal-lottery-team-needs

I actually don't think that is too much of a surprise. The strongest part of Jeffersons D has always been defending the post, and while that has always been seen as sort of a weakness for Millsap, one thing he is very good at is poking the ball away from guys who are trying to back him down.

I think it is interesting that they would say post D was a need when A) 46% isn't really that bad for a couple 21 year olds and B) the perimeter D is even worse.


Have to agree that post-D was not really much of an issue in my book or likely to be a big deal especially with maturation of Enes and Favs. Yes, a D-minded big body needs to be on the Jazz list given Sap and Al are down the road, but as the article noted a playmaker is really what is needed. Pretty stunning to see how poorly the Jazz ranked in the league wrt the pick and roll. And, I can't quite put my finger on it, but why did the perimiter D suck so bad, given the Jazz wings are fairly solid individually in that department. Is it because of the porous/non-existent D on the opposing PG or the D schemes in general that Ty ran? Thoughts?

Well first thing I'd point to, was that the PG's were absolutely horrific defensively. Burks was the best of the bunch by a mile, but he played the least. The #1 minutes guy at SG was Randy Foye. He's passable defensively, sometimes, but really not that great overall, and Burks wasn't all that much better than Foye when he played shooting guard. Hayward and Marvin are both good defenders, Demarre is good but more from a team perspective than an individual man-on-man sense, and those three were hands down the best perimeter defenders from and individual perspective, but they were also not the guys that played the most minutes together.

From a coaching standpoint I agree that it felt like the sum of the parts was less than the whole, mostly because it didn't seem like the team was really being optimized to play D at any point. It felt to me like Corbin spent most of the time trying to figure out ways to mask and minimize the defenciencies of key players like Mo, and Al by changing lineups rather than developing a core defensive philosophy, and I think that really hurt the team overall.

Gawd, how could I have forgotten the Foye factor in my discussion of wing D? I think you are being kind calling his D "passable". I threw shit at the TV screen many times this past season watching his man go off or by him. Occasionally, very occasionally, he did OK. Good call on the sum of parts/masking issue - rings true to my memory. I also wonder if the post D wouldn't have been even better if the bigs weren't forced into last minute help D on the penetrator versus being in position from the get-go. Can't remember who said it but someone on this board once noted that good interior D starts at the perimeter. The Grizz have been stellar on that front. Come to think of it, all four standing teams have damn good perimeter D and solid paint protection too. (Quick aside: Am I the only one watching the playoffs who finds themselves doing deep sighs recognizing how far last year's model of the Jazz is from competing at this level?)
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