Moment of Truth

Well, I guess it's time to see if my half baked theories are are valid or not.

While I like Earl as a guy and think he'd be a nice coach, I've been complaining for a while now that on hte court he's the worst, now has a stress fracture and bone bruise in his leg, that is a painfull injury and he'll likely miss some significant time.

In addition to that we have had some discussions here about whether or not Burks should be playing more, and that moment has also arrived. With Hayward probably missing another game or two and Watson out the Jazz need Burks to step up in a big way.

So far at best we can call the results mixed. Burks was 1-6 in 20 minutes in Portland, and the Jazz lost that game in part because the backup guards for the Blazers, who are typically awful, were able to get going against the Jazz. Is that a product of missing the Bulldog? maybe.

The hope of course is that we are all right. That Burks can step up and earn his time filling in for Watson and Hayward playing combo guard, and that the team is actually better without Watson. Time will tell....

TheMagnus wrote:

Well, I guess it's time to see if my half baked theories are are valid or not.

While I like Earl as a guy and think he'd be a nice coach, I've been complaining for a while now that on hte court he's the worst, now has a stress fracture and bone bruise in his leg, that is a painfull injury and he'll likely miss some significant time.

In addition to that we have had some discussions here about whether or not Burks should be playing more, and that moment has also arrived. With Hayward probably missing another game or two and Watson out the Jazz need Burks to step up in a big way.

So far at best we can call the results mixed. Burks was 1-6 in 20 minutes in Portland, and the Jazz lost that game in part because the backup guards for the Blazers, who are typically awful, were able to get going against the Jazz. Is that a product of missing the Bulldog? maybe.

The hope of course is that we are all right. That Burks can step up and earn his time filling in for Watson and Hayward playing combo guard, and that the team is actually better without Watson. Time will tell....

Burks is fine in spot minutes at pg. I think the Jazz need to iso him on the smaller pgs a little more when he is in there. I think we are seeing the difference Gordo makes for this team. The second unit doesn't run nearly as well with him out.

I think this will definitely be good for the Jazz in the long run. Having Heyhey out really hurts, but having Watson out gives us a chance to develop our younger players, and (hopefully) prove they can do it.

Burks sucked in the 1st half, but really came through in the 2nd half and overtime. That's just what he needed. And, it's just what we needed. Steals, Rebounds, Assists, and over a dozen points while playing great D against the opposing PGs.

Burks did look more comfortable within the team last night. Knowing that he wasn't going to get yanked, and probably feeling like he didn't have to try to get an entire nights stats within a few minutes had to help him.

On the other hand, after watching him play mostly PG the past few games, I feel like he is a SG who can play PG, not a PG or true combo guard. He just isn't the type of player who looks to facilitate. He can set up the offense (meaning he can drop it into the post to Al), but once he makes a move, he's looking for his shot 100%.

zero24gravity wrote:

Burks did look more comfortable within the team last night. Knowing that he wasn't going to get yanked, and probably feeling like he didn't have to try to get an entire nights stats within a few minutes had to help him.

On the other hand, after watching him play mostly PG the past few games, I feel like he is a SG who can play PG, not a PG or true combo guard. He just isn't the type of player who looks to facilitate. He can set up the offense (meaning he can drop it into the post to Al), but once he makes a move, he's looking for his shot 100%.

Ya, it's kind of a shame because when Hayward is healthy this team needs a PG way worse than they need a SG.

Still, I think he's an upgrade over Watson at PG. I think he clearly showed his ability in that area last night.

I don't think it will happen, it's not Corbins way, but I think the best thing for the Jazz would be to start Hayward when he comes back and move Foye to the bench so he and Burks can do the half-and-half thing that they do. They are both very effective in that arrangement, and with Mo out Hayward can be more of a focal point of the offense in the first unit.

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

Burks did look more comfortable within the team last night. Knowing that he wasn't going to get yanked, and probably feeling like he didn't have to try to get an entire nights stats within a few minutes had to help him.

On the other hand, after watching him play mostly PG the past few games, I feel like he is a SG who can play PG, not a PG or true combo guard. He just isn't the type of player who looks to facilitate. He can set up the offense (meaning he can drop it into the post to Al), but once he makes a move, he's looking for his shot 100%.

Ya, it's kind of a shame because when Hayward is healthy this team needs a PG way worse than they need a SG.

Still, I think he's an upgrade over Watson at PG. I think he clearly showed his ability in that area last night.

I don't think it will happen, it's not Corbins way, but I think the best thing for the Jazz would be to start Hayward when he comes back and move Foye to the bench so he and Burks can do the half-and-half thing that they do. They are both very effective in that arrangement, and with Mo out Hayward can be more of a focal point of the offense in the first unit.

I agree, and the teams first unit just doesn't work, so a change is a good idea. But keeping Hayward on the second unit also has an advantage, assuming Burks plays ahead of Watson, because Gordon is a better "point" than Alec & can play the point-forward, allowing Alec to defend the other teams PG, but not have to actually facilitate.

Hayward is playing great in the 2nd unit, no need to change. But what is needed is a change in the starting 5. DC in and Foye/Marv out. Either one. We need hustle, tenacity, rebounds, steals, extra possessions, back door layups, and DEFENSE. Add DC now man, now.....

New PGs infiltrate seemingly all of our threads, and this ones no exception. I think right now, with now Watson down too, we make a move for Will Bynum in Detroit. He's expendable there, and on top of that he's UFA after the season so if we didn't like the fit, he's gone anyway. He's got Watson's bulldog, Mo's outside scoring, Devins inside and Tinsley's set up ability. They guy produces when given the opportunity and I wouldnt be surprised if he turned into a Dragic situation.

Like someone else said, I think Burks is a 2 guard. He can play some 1, and Foye can play some 1, but they're both 2's. Bynum is starting quality. Make a move Jazz; pretty much have to now.

Mutangclan wrote:

Hayward is playing great in the 2nd unit, no need to change. But what is needed is a change in the starting 5. DC in and Foye/Marv out. Either one. We need hustle, tenacity, rebounds, steals, extra possessions, back door layups, and DEFENSE. Add DC now man, now.....

New PGs infiltrate seemingly all of our threads, and this ones no exception. I think right now, with now Watson down too, we make a move for Will Bynum in Detroit. He's expendable there, and on top of that he's UFA after the season so if we didn't like the fit, he's gone anyway. He's got Watson's bulldog, Mo's outside scoring, Devins inside and Tinsley's set up ability. They guy produces when given the opportunity and I wouldnt be surprised if he turned into a Dragic situation.

Like someone else said, I think Burks is a 2 guard. He can play some 1, and Foye can play some 1, but they're both 2's. Bynum is starting quality. Make a move Jazz; pretty much have to now.

Will Bynum IS an excellent PG. And, since Detroit picked up Calderon, and they still have Knight and Stuckey, Bynum isn't going to get the burn he deserves in Detroit. I think a lot of people on the Utah threads really liked Stuckey, but, I like Bynum. I'm a Tinsley fan, and a Moe fan, but, I actually think Bynum would be a great fit for the Jazz.

As for Burks: I thought he did a really good job in the 2nd half last night. Burks made solid passes. But, there's a difference between making passes and creating good passes. Great PGs can create shots for themselves (as can Burks), but, they can more often create situations where another player gets a high percentage shot. Burks can recognize an open scorer and pass him the ball-- but hasn't shown he can change a situation where everyone is covered into an open dunk or wide-open 3 for a team-mate. (Of course, we're PG spoiled in Utah, but, still....)

Saint Louis wrote:

Will Bynum IS an excellent PG. And, since Detroit picked up Calderon, and they still have Knight and Stuckey, Bynum isn't going to get the burn he deserves in Detroit. I think a lot of people on the Utah threads really liked Stuckey, but, I like Bynum. I'm a Tinsley fan, and a Moe fan, but, I actually think Bynum would be a great fit for the Jazz.

As for Burks: I thought he did a really good job in the 2nd half last night. Burks made solid passes. But, there's a difference between making passes and creating good passes. Great PGs can create shots for themselves (as can Burks), but, they can more often create situations where another player gets a high percentage shot. Burks can recognize an open scorer and pass him the ball-- but hasn't shown he can change a situation where everyone is covered into an open dunk or wide-open 3 for a team-mate. (Of course, we're PG spoiled in Utah, but, still....)

I've never been on the Stuckey bandwagon. I'd like Bynum more for sure (especially for the $$). Is Bynum ever going to be a top 15-20 PG? Probably not, but I'd be on board with bringing him here & giving him a shot. Bell & a pick for Bynum? Jazz give up a pick for a 1/2 year of Bynum & the possibility of him resigning. The Pistons get a pick for a player that they likely won't resign, considering the make-up of their roster, and won't get much PT with the aquisition of Calderon. Seems reasonable.

you guys know Bynum is 30 years old...don't you?

I'm not saying he wouldn'e be an upgrade over Tinsley and Watson, he would, but he DEFINITELY isn't worth a first round pick, maybe a second rounder, maybe.

TheMagnus wrote:

you guys know Bynum is 30 years old...don't you?

I'm not saying he wouldn'e be an upgrade over Tinsley and Watson, he would, but he DEFINITELY isn't worth a first round pick, maybe a second rounder, maybe.

THIRTY!?!??!

Well, he's as good as dead then, nevermind. (Truth is, I knew he'd ben in the league for 5 years, so I didn't think he was that old.)


I just wish Mo was coming back soon. He wasn't as good as he should have been, but at the very least, he gives the team better depth.

TheMagnus wrote:

you guys know Bynum is 30 years old...don't you?

I'm not saying he wouldn'e be an upgrade over Tinsley and Watson, he would, but he DEFINITELY isn't worth a first round pick, maybe a second rounder, maybe.

I definitely didn't realize he was that old. But a 17th pick or so, for a starting quality PG for the next 4 years??? Uh, I'd do that.

Comments from Earl about Alec playing PG:

What does he think of Alec Burks' transition to point guard?

He's had some amazing moments. I just tell him to focus on the positive, be more an aggressive point guard. Someone you're going to see tonight is Monta Ellis. He can play both positions, but when he gets the ball at the point he's really aggressive. So that's a great role model for him to watch or a guy to look up to as far as a guy who can play both positions. Both explosive.


Has the point guard position evolved to be more friendly to more aggressive, athletic guards?

I think you have to be who you are in the situation you're in. I think the point guard position, Hubie Brown always say is the hardest position to play in the NBA is the point guard and the center. The point guard because of the mental aspect of it and the center position because he said everyone was men in that position, like physically strong. I think those are two tough adjustments. I think Alec is going to do the best that he can and he's going going to always be aggressive and confident. He might make some mistakes, but mistakes are a part of basketball. To me, I don't care how many mistakes he has, just so long as he does it in an aggressive fashion.


What changed for Burks between the first and second halves against the Kings?

I think he was trying to run the offense a little too much and we had a talk on the bench, and I told him to just be aggressive, don't try to run the offense, don't play the way you see anyone else playing, be who you are. Be aggressive, they want to pressure, go around them. Make them guard you. You can't sit there and be a pass-first point guard if that's not who you are.


And there is this article about Corbin's thoughts on Burks as a starting PG:
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsjazznotes/55768691-62/corbin-burks-guard-game.html.csp

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

you guys know Bynum is 30 years old...don't you?

I'm not saying he wouldn'e be an upgrade over Tinsley and Watson, he would, but he DEFINITELY isn't worth a first round pick, maybe a second rounder, maybe.

I definitely didn't realize he was that old. But a 17th pick or so, for a starting quality PG for the next 4 years??? Uh, I'd do that.

I guess we have different opinions on whether he's "starting quality". I'd rather just keep Mo.

zero24gravity wrote:

Comments from Earl about Alec playing PG:

What does he think of Alec Burks' transition to point guard?

He's had some amazing moments. I just tell him to focus on the positive, be more an aggressive point guard. Someone you're going to see tonight is Monta Ellis. He can play both positions, but when he gets the ball at the point he's really aggressive. So that's a great role model for him to watch or a guy to look up to as far as a guy who can play both positions. Both explosive.


Has the point guard position evolved to be more friendly to more aggressive, athletic guards?

I think you have to be who you are in the situation you're in. I think the point guard position, Hubie Brown always say is the hardest position to play in the NBA is the point guard and the center. The point guard because of the mental aspect of it and the center position because he said everyone was men in that position, like physically strong. I think those are two tough adjustments. I think Alec is going to do the best that he can and he's going going to always be aggressive and confident. He might make some mistakes, but mistakes are a part of basketball. To me, I don't care how many mistakes he has, just so long as he does it in an aggressive fashion.


What changed for Burks between the first and second halves against the Kings?

I think he was trying to run the offense a little too much and we had a talk on the bench, and I told him to just be aggressive, don't try to run the offense, don't play the way you see anyone else playing, be who you are. Be aggressive, they want to pressure, go around them. Make them guard you. You can't sit there and be a pass-first point guard if that's not who you are.


And there is this article about Corbin's thoughts on Burks as a starting PG:
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsjazznotes/55768691-62/corbin-burks-guard-game.html.csp

Seriously, why is Watson still playing? Dude is ready to be a coach right now, and that is unquestionably where his value lies at this point in his career.

TheMagnus wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

you guys know Bynum is 30 years old...don't you?

I'm not saying he wouldn'e be an upgrade over Tinsley and Watson, he would, but he DEFINITELY isn't worth a first round pick, maybe a second rounder, maybe.

I definitely didn't realize he was that old. But a 17th pick or so, for a starting quality PG for the next 4 years??? Uh, I'd do that.

I guess we have different opinions on whether he's "starting quality". I'd rather just keep Mo.

We must. However, he's also cheap. And we have one 35 yr old pg, and now a broke down 34yr old pg. And Mo is always injured.

In other words, anybody not on this team should be considered a starting quality PG, since we dont even have one.