DC and the "One Disruptive Defender" Theory

I had thought about trying to portray this "ODD" Theory as something some sharp basketball mind had come up with a long time ago...maybe Red Auerbach or Bill Fitch or Larry Brown.

But you guys are too sharp for that, so I'll just trust you'll concede the evidence of your senses to confirm it.

The "One Disruptive Defender" Theory goes like this: You only need one (1) athletic, quick, long and committed-to-nonstop-defensive-effort player to raise the level of your overall defense by a factor far in excess of his indiviudal contribution. You can go back and find examples on a lot of teams: Bowen, Hakeem, Pippen, Payton, AK (early AK), etc. These players are mostly credited with playing on good defensive teams, and they mostly did, but the Theory says those teams were good on defense because of ONE players' energizing defensive play.

For a current example, look no further than Dermarre Carroll. You have all seen with your own eyes how well the Jazz play defense with their second unit (sometimes head-and-shoulders better than the starters). And you've seen DC all over the court, disrupting the ballhandler, hustling back to cover his man (usually the SF), then blocking off a passing lane to a big underneath and then doubling the other big...it's fun to watch and incredibly effective sometimes.

Thing is, when he disrupts one part of the play, it creates defensive opportunities for other players, if they hustle to take advantage. And players like Millsap and Hayward will do that, every time. And when the effort results in the shooting guard doubled 40 feet from the basket with 6 seconds on the shot clock? Or results in steals, air balls, 24-second violations? When opposing teams fail to score for 5, 6, 8, 10 possessions in a row?? Oh, that builds the defensive energy even more.

At least until we put in players with a more "NBA Normal" commitment to defensive effort (otherwise know as "Our Starters"). But the key to all that defense, the primary spark, the first ricocheting marble, the initial disruptive force...is DC. And only DC. One guy gets all that going, and without him on the floor you almost never see it happen.

Plausible?? Good theory?? It sure fits my observations.

Troll, I like your version alot more than mine. It's smarter, more descriptive, and certainly more romantic. But I'm with you, and I've been a broken record on DC starting since last year, and how it is contagious. His energy and hustle etc makes other respond the same way.

I can't for the life of me figure out why DC is not starting and Marv is.

Trollificus wrote:

I had thought about trying to portray this "ODD" Theory as something some sharp basketball mind had come up with a long time ago...maybe Red Auerbach or Bill Fitch or Larry Brown.

But you guys are too sharp for that, so I'll just trust you'll concede the evidence of your senses to confirm it.

The "One Disruptive Defender" Theory goes like this: You only need one (1) athletic, quick, long and committed-to-nonstop-defensive-effort player to raise the level of your overall defense by a factor far in excess of his indiviudal contribution. You can go back and find examples on a lot of teams: Bowen, Hakeem, Pippen, Payton, AK (early AK), etc. These players are mostly credited with playing on good defensive teams, and they mostly did, but the Theory says those teams were good on defense because of ONE players' energizing defensive play.

For a current example, look no further than Dermarre Carroll. You have all seen with your own eyes how well the Jazz play defense with their second unit (sometimes head-and-shoulders better than the starters). And you've seen DC all over the court, disrupting the ballhandler, hustling back to cover his man (usually the SF), then blocking off a passing lane to a big underneath and then doubling the other big...it's fun to watch and incredibly effective sometimes.

Thing is, when he disrupts one part of the play, it creates defensive opportunities for other players, if they hustle to take advantage. And players like Millsap and Hayward will do that, every time. And when the effort results in the shooting guard doubled 40 feet from the basket with 6 seconds on the shot clock? Or results in steals, air balls, 24-second violations? When opposing teams fail to score for 5, 6, 8, 10 possessions in a row?? Oh, that builds the defensive energy even more.

At least until we put in players with a more "NBA Normal" commitment to defensive effort (otherwise know as "Our Starters"). But the key to all that defense, the primary spark, the first ricocheting marble, the initial disruptive force...is DC. And only DC. One guy gets all that going, and without him on the floor you almost never see it happen.

Plausible?? Good theory?? It sure fits my observations.

Sounds good to me. In fact, "The Disruptor" would be another good nickname for Carroll.

Crunchtime1 wrote:

Sounds good to me. In fact, "The Disruptor" would be another good nickname for Carroll.

Funny you've bring up new nicknames because I've been kicking around a nickname in my head, but couldn't decide who it would apply to better; Favors or Carroll.

Thing is, it's perfectly descriptive and is definitely has positive meaning, but probably not something a player would ever want to be called .... (drum-role please) .... "The Diaper" .... cause he's always covering people's ass!

zero24gravity wrote:

Crunchtime1 wrote:

Sounds good to me. In fact, "The Disruptor" would be another good nickname for Carroll.

Funny you've bring up new nicknames because I've been kicking around a nickname in my head, but couldn't decide who it would apply to better; Favors or Carroll.

Thing is, it's perfectly descriptive and is definitely has positive meaning, but probably not something a player would ever want to be called .... (drum-role please) .... "The Diaper" .... cause he's always covering people's ass!

Nice, I like it! Maybe whoever doesn't get to be the Diaper can be Depends.

"The Diaper". LOL.

Trollificus wrote:

I had thought about trying to portray this "ODD" Theory as something some sharp basketball mind had come up with a long time ago...maybe Red Auerbach or Bill Fitch or Larry Brown.

But you guys are too sharp for that, so I'll just trust you'll concede the evidence of your senses to confirm it.

The "One Disruptive Defender" Theory goes like this: You only need one (1) athletic, quick, long and committed-to-nonstop-defensive-effort player to raise the level of your overall defense by a factor far in excess of his indiviudal contribution. You can go back and find examples on a lot of teams: Bowen, Hakeem, Pippen, Payton, AK (early AK), etc. These players are mostly credited with playing on good defensive teams, and they mostly did, but the Theory says those teams were good on defense because of ONE players' energizing defensive play.

For a current example, look no further than Dermarre Carroll. You have all seen with your own eyes how well the Jazz play defense with their second unit (sometimes head-and-shoulders better than the starters). And you've seen DC all over the court, disrupting the ballhandler, hustling back to cover his man (usually the SF), then blocking off a passing lane to a big underneath and then doubling the other big...it's fun to watch and incredibly effective sometimes.

Thing is, when he disrupts one part of the play, it creates defensive opportunities for other players, if they hustle to take advantage. And players like Millsap and Hayward will do that, every time. And when the effort results in the shooting guard doubled 40 feet from the basket with 6 seconds on the shot clock? Or results in steals, air balls, 24-second violations? When opposing teams fail to score for 5, 6, 8, 10 possessions in a row?? Oh, that builds the defensive energy even more.

At least until we put in players with a more "NBA Normal" commitment to defensive effort (otherwise know as "Our Starters"). But the key to all that defense, the primary spark, the first ricocheting marble, the initial disruptive force...is DC. And only DC. One guy gets all that going, and without him on the floor you almost never see it happen.

Plausible?? Good theory?? It sure fits my observations.

Troll, I was almost ready to disagree with you on this one. But, I can't, too much. What saved you was your last paragraph about Jazz defense with our starters. Marvin Williams has been our best defender for our starting line-up. But, we're still getting burned all over the court with Marv at the 3. The player Marv is guarding isn't torching up the Jazz. But, every other position has been able to tear us apart. I'd say this is solid defense on Marv's part-- but, it doesn't help if the Jazz are being beaten by the opponent's other four.

Almost all of us have been saying DC should play with the first unit. I think this would let Marv score more and still play great one on one defense with our 2nd unit. If the Jazz used Marv more offensively with our 2nd unit, they might find more success.

Solid theoretical work there Troll. I've seen that play out on various teams I have been associated with, most notably in high school were we had a kid on our team that was a lot like Demarre before Demarre learned to shoot, in fact he really didn't do anthing offensively but shoot layups, but that was ok, because that was all he had to do. Defensively he single handedly won 2 or 3 games for us, he came off the bench, played less than half of the game on average, and still set a state record for steals in a season. It is almost impossible to overstate the real basketball value of turnovers that lead to transition baskets, and yet the players that create those opportunities are almost always underutilized. Why is that?

I have seen one theory that the stats geeks like to throw around, and that is that most coaches are risk averse, not just a little either, like investing all your money in gold that you keep in a safe in your basement next to your guns and your food storage risk averse. If you ask a person who doesn't appreciate the value of the ODD they will immediately point to one of the instances like Butler torching Carroll for a season high, or other instances where he gives up open shots because he's out of position from running around so much.

By it's very nature this sort of disruptive behavior is risky, and it can not only disrupt the opposition but also your own team, and that makes coaches nervous. The funny thing is that when it is a star doing it then it's no problem, in fact in that case they are praised and given awards for it. Jordan was notorious for basically playing free safety, every time he found himself in somebody's blindspot he would leave his man and go try and pick a pocket or block a shot, and he was considered one of the best defensive players in the league, Stockton was another guy who was an absolute master at being the ODD as evidenced by his nearly unbreakable NBA steals record and the number of Jazz highlights created by The Mailman running the lane to finnish them off. You see the same thing from guys like Lebron and Wade and Chris Paul, but if a guy like Demarre does it he's just too unreliable, for some reason the downsides suddenly outweigh the upside and you have to be "careful" how you deploy that weapon.

Can somebody, ANYBODY, tell me one thing that Marv does better than DC??? One???

Exhibit A) Tonights game. Dc was everywhere, had a good line, actually made KD work. Marv was nowhere to be seen.
We dont even have a 3pt shooter coming off the bench. What perfect sense it makes to start DC and have Marv be that 3pt shooter in the second unit....... for gods sake, after the all-star break, PLEASE pull your head out Corbin!

Mutangclan wrote:

Can somebody, ANYBODY, tell me one thing that Marv does better than DC??? One???

Exhibit A) Tonights game. Dc was everywhere, had a good line, actually made KD work. Marv was nowhere to be seen.
We dont even have a 3pt shooter coming off the bench. What perfect sense it makes to start DC and have Marv be that 3pt shooter in the second unit....... for gods sake, after the all-star break, PLEASE pull your head out Corbin!

It's been mentioned before, but the one thing that jumps out immediately is Marvins defense on his man. He's held opposing teams starting SF's to a PER of 13.9, which is well below the league average for starting SF's. Carroll is better, holding his guy to a PER of 12, but that isn't against the same level of player.

Still, I'm with you in hoping a change is made, I think Hayward and Marvin would work well together and DMC would be realy good for the first unit.

TheMagnus wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Can somebody, ANYBODY, tell me one thing that Marv does better than DC??? One???

Exhibit A) Tonights game. Dc was everywhere, had a good line, actually made KD work. Marv was nowhere to be seen.
We dont even have a 3pt shooter coming off the bench. What perfect sense it makes to start DC and have Marv be that 3pt shooter in the second unit....... for gods sake, after the all-star break, PLEASE pull your head out Corbin!

It's been mentioned before, but the one thing that jumps out immediately is Marvins defense on his man. He's held opposing teams starting SF's to a PER of 13.9, which is well below the league average for starting SF's. Carroll is better, holding his guy to a PER of 12, but that isn't against the same level of player.

Still, I'm with you in hoping a change is made, I think Hayward and Marvin would work well together and DMC would be realy good for the first unit.

Thats the key right there, IT JUST MAKES SENSE. Haywards game, on the second unit could use a spot up shooter outside the 3. Which, sad as it is, is all Marvin has become, a stand alone corner 3pt shooter. But it would open things up for Gordo more, who likes to drive/slash/dish from the top of the key. And it also would make sure Gordo does not have to guard the opposing teams SF, which he always struggles with. He could defend the opposing 2, which he does fairly well at. But also, that opposing 2 wouldn't be able to deal with him either. Its a win win. I dont even have to mention for the 1000th time how DC's game meshes well with the starting unit.

OH! Almost forgot, yet another reason why DC should be starting and getting the minutes over Marv: When Burks was fast breaking around KD, and KD just came and rammed into him for a flagrant, who was that came all the way across the court and grabbed a hold of KD and got in his face?? Oh yea, JYDC*

When Durant threw a block into Alec Burks and was called for his first career flagrant foul with 6:06 left in the Jazz’s 109-94 win, Carroll responded. Carroll walked over to Durant and said something to him. Durant responded, and players from both teams gathered around. The confrontation did not escalate, although Carroll and Durant received technical fouls. Said Carroll: "I just told him, ‘Don’t be playing dirty out here. If you’re going to play dirty, play dirty in the park. We’re not going to be playing dirty out here.’ " Salt Lake Tribune

Carroll said he was simply coming to the aid of a teammate. "Burks is a young guy," Carroll said. "He really ain’t going to stand up for himself so ... I know I might not have all the money to give away but, hey, I’ll take a stand for my man Burks." Durant was clearly frustrated by what at the time was a 17-point deficit. "He told me, ‘Get out of my face with that,’ " Carroll said. "I was like, ‘It is what it is.’ " Salt Lake Tribune

There's one other thing that is getting to me about this DC thing, and thats that I would like Corbin to establish that hard work gets you the minutes. What better example is there for "effort" on the court, than JYDC. He can make an example out of JYDC, so that guys like Burks and Kanter know that hard work and effort on the court get you the run. DC has so blatantly earned that spot....

Utah improved to 9-3 when DeMarre Carroll hits double figures in scoring....

*I claim UnderKanter, and now I claim JYDC- Junkyard Dog Carroll

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Can somebody, ANYBODY, tell me one thing that Marv does better than DC??? One???

Exhibit A) Tonights game. Dc was everywhere, had a good line, actually made KD work. Marv was nowhere to be seen.
We dont even have a 3pt shooter coming off the bench. What perfect sense it makes to start DC and have Marv be that 3pt shooter in the second unit....... for gods sake, after the all-star break, PLEASE pull your head out Corbin!

It's been mentioned before, but the one thing that jumps out immediately is Marvins defense on his man. He's held opposing teams starting SF's to a PER of 13.9, which is well below the league average for starting SF's. Carroll is better, holding his guy to a PER of 12, but that isn't against the same level of player.

Still, I'm with you in hoping a change is made, I think Hayward and Marvin would work well together and DMC would be realy good for the first unit.

Thats the key right there, IT JUST MAKES SENSE. Haywards game, on the second unit could use a spot up shooter outside the 3. Which, sad as it is, is all Marvin has become, a stand alone corner 3pt shooter. But it would open things up for Gordo more, who likes to drive/slash/dish from the top of the key. And it also would make sure Gordo does not have to guard the opposing teams SF, which he always struggles with. He could defend the opposing 2, which he does fairly well at. But also, that opposing 2 wouldn't be able to deal with him either. Its a win win. I dont even have to mention for the 1000th time how DC's game meshes well with the starting unit.

OH! Almost forgot, yet another reason why DC should be starting and getting the minutes over Marv: When Burks was fast breaking around KD, and KD just came and rammed into him for a flagrant, who was that came all the way across the court and grabbed a hold of KD and got in his face?? Oh yea, JYDC*

When Durant threw a block into Alec Burks and was called for his first career flagrant foul with 6:06 left in the Jazz’s 109-94 win, Carroll responded. Carroll walked over to Durant and said something to him. Durant responded, and players from both teams gathered around. The confrontation did not escalate, although Carroll and Durant received technical fouls. Said Carroll: "I just told him, ‘Don’t be playing dirty out here. If you’re going to play dirty, play dirty in the park. We’re not going to be playing dirty out here.’ " Salt Lake Tribune

Carroll said he was simply coming to the aid of a teammate. "Burks is a young guy," Carroll said. "He really ain’t going to stand up for himself so ... I know I might not have all the money to give away but, hey, I’ll take a stand for my man Burks." Durant was clearly frustrated by what at the time was a 17-point deficit. "He told me, ‘Get out of my face with that,’ " Carroll said. "I was like, ‘It is what it is.’ " Salt Lake Tribune

There's one other thing that is getting to me about this DC thing, and thats that I would like Corbin to establish that hard work gets you the minutes. What better example is there for "effort" on the court, than JYDC. He can make an example out of JYDC, so that guys like Burks and Kanter know that hard work and effort on the court get you the run. DC has so blatantly earned that spot....

Utah improved to 9-3 when DeMarre Carroll hits double figures in scoring....

*I claim UnderKanter, and now I claim JYDC- Junkyard Dog Carroll

That was big DC going over to aid his teammate this is the kind of player the Jazz has been in need of for many many season, the guy is showing himself well and should be a part of this team for a long time IMO.

dongibby wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Can somebody, ANYBODY, tell me one thing that Marv does better than DC??? One???

Exhibit A) Tonights game. Dc was everywhere, had a good line, actually made KD work. Marv was nowhere to be seen.
We dont even have a 3pt shooter coming off the bench. What perfect sense it makes to start DC and have Marv be that 3pt shooter in the second unit....... for gods sake, after the all-star break, PLEASE pull your head out Corbin!

It's been mentioned before, but the one thing that jumps out immediately is Marvins defense on his man. He's held opposing teams starting SF's to a PER of 13.9, which is well below the league average for starting SF's. Carroll is better, holding his guy to a PER of 12, but that isn't against the same level of player.

Still, I'm with you in hoping a change is made, I think Hayward and Marvin would work well together and DMC would be realy good for the first unit.

Thats the key right there, IT JUST MAKES SENSE. Haywards game, on the second unit could use a spot up shooter outside the 3. Which, sad as it is, is all Marvin has become, a stand alone corner 3pt shooter. But it would open things up for Gordo more, who likes to drive/slash/dish from the top of the key. And it also would make sure Gordo does not have to guard the opposing teams SF, which he always struggles with. He could defend the opposing 2, which he does fairly well at. But also, that opposing 2 wouldn't be able to deal with him either. Its a win win. I dont even have to mention for the 1000th time how DC's game meshes well with the starting unit.

OH! Almost forgot, yet another reason why DC should be starting and getting the minutes over Marv: When Burks was fast breaking around KD, and KD just came and rammed into him for a flagrant, who was that came all the way across the court and grabbed a hold of KD and got in his face?? Oh yea, JYDC*

When Durant threw a block into Alec Burks and was called for his first career flagrant foul with 6:06 left in the Jazz’s 109-94 win, Carroll responded. Carroll walked over to Durant and said something to him. Durant responded, and players from both teams gathered around. The confrontation did not escalate, although Carroll and Durant received technical fouls. Said Carroll: "I just told him, ‘Don’t be playing dirty out here. If you’re going to play dirty, play dirty in the park. We’re not going to be playing dirty out here.’ " Salt Lake Tribune

Carroll said he was simply coming to the aid of a teammate. "Burks is a young guy," Carroll said. "He really ain’t going to stand up for himself so ... I know I might not have all the money to give away but, hey, I’ll take a stand for my man Burks." Durant was clearly frustrated by what at the time was a 17-point deficit. "He told me, ‘Get out of my face with that,’ " Carroll said. "I was like, ‘It is what it is.’ " Salt Lake Tribune

There's one other thing that is getting to me about this DC thing, and thats that I would like Corbin to establish that hard work gets you the minutes. What better example is there for "effort" on the court, than JYDC. He can make an example out of JYDC, so that guys like Burks and Kanter know that hard work and effort on the court get you the run. DC has so blatantly earned that spot....

Utah improved to 9-3 when DeMarre Carroll hits double figures in scoring....

*I claim UnderKanter, and now I claim JYDC- Junkyard Dog Carroll

That was big DC going over to aid his teammate this is the kind of player the Jazz has been in need of for many many season, the guy is showing himself well and should be a part of this team for a long time IMO.

I agree, I was really proud of him for going over to KD and getting in his face! You know that $3000 fine for the T means a lot more for a guy like DC than it does for Durant, but he did it anyway. Love it!

Romoholic wrote:

I agree, I was really proud of him for going over to KD and getting in his face! You know that $3000 fine for the T means a lot more for a guy like DC than it does for Durant, but he did it anyway. Love it!

There's a whole article about this "incident"...

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/55818552-87/carroll-durant-dirty-burks.html.csp

Said Carroll: "I just told him, ‘Don’t be playing dirty out here. If you’re going to play dirty, play dirty in the park. We’re not going to be playing dirty out here.’ "

"He told me, ‘Get out of my face with that,’ " Carroll said. "I was like, ‘It is what it is.’ "

"You can’t get physical with us, especially not [with] the Dog," Carroll said. "... That’s what I do. I get scrappy and I get physical."

Mutangclan wrote:

Can somebody, ANYBODY, tell me one thing that Marv does better than DC??? One???

Exhibit A) Tonights game. Dc was everywhere, had a good line, actually made KD work. Marv was nowhere to be seen.
We dont even have a 3pt shooter coming off the bench. What perfect sense it makes to start DC and have Marv be that 3pt shooter in the second unit....... for gods sake, after the all-star break, PLEASE pull your head out Corbin!

Marvin could make the same crippling gambles that DC does if asked to. I love DC's wildness, but it comes with a possible downside (which he has limited in an incredible fashion lately).

Marvin also rarely gets burned by his man like DC is prone to. Blowing by Carroll can be surprisingly easy at times.

Professo_Sloan wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Can somebody, ANYBODY, tell me one thing that Marv does better than DC??? One???

Exhibit A) Tonights game. Dc was everywhere, had a good line, actually made KD work. Marv was nowhere to be seen.
We dont even have a 3pt shooter coming off the bench. What perfect sense it makes to start DC and have Marv be that 3pt shooter in the second unit....... for gods sake, after the all-star break, PLEASE pull your head out Corbin!

Marvin could make the same crippling gambles that DC does if asked to. I love DC's wildness, but it comes with a possible downside (which he has limited in an incredible fashion lately).

Marvin also rarely gets burned by his man like DC is prone to. Blowing by Carroll can be surprisingly easy at times.

Pretty sure I called that one...

Professo_Sloan wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Can somebody, ANYBODY, tell me one thing that Marv does better than DC??? One???

Exhibit A) Tonights game. Dc was everywhere, had a good line, actually made KD work. Marv was nowhere to be seen.
We dont even have a 3pt shooter coming off the bench. What perfect sense it makes to start DC and have Marv be that 3pt shooter in the second unit....... for gods sake, after the all-star break, PLEASE pull your head out Corbin!

Marvin could make the same crippling gambles that DC does if asked to. I love DC's wildness, but it comes with a possible downside (which he has limited in an incredible fashion lately).

Marvin also rarely gets burned by his man like DC is prone to. Blowing by Carroll can be surprisingly easy at times.

We're watching two different games, and two different players.

And "crippling", really? Not so much.
Completely disagree with that last statement.

TheMagnus wrote:

Pretty sure I called that one...

Apologies. Admittedly, I don't have as much patience as others here for the very long winded posts that seem to be a JN theme. Not being in The Old Guard makes it hard to recognize the nuances, hence an exercise in futility mining through some of them.

And that wasn't meant as a backhanded complement.

Mutangclan wrote:

We're watching two different games, and two different players.

And "crippling", really? Not so much.
Completely disagree with that last statement.

Pretty sure you misread my post as some slight on DC....crippling gambles is basketball 101??? Plus, I specifically said he has done a wonderful job of minimizing the downside of his gambles (nearly completely?).

Don't know what to say about missing DC getting blown away by a first step. It's obvious to everyone. And we're not even talking small forwards here, who DC cannot guard at all unlike Marvin Williams.

So "crippling gambles" you were implying were crippling to the opposing team? And I think thats the entire point, that DC does minimize his downside, so that he's really only a plus for the team while on the court.

Thats interesting, that DC getting beaten by a first step is obvious to "everyone"....thats alot of people.
Another thing, I think you may not have noticed, that DC is one of the few that gets right up into someone's jersey, in their personal space.

I think there's a pretty significant difference between playing a man-on defense, and just making sure you stick around your man, dont lose him, and play almost a zone/man defense. DC plays legit, man-on defense....

Yeah, for the "ODD" player, there's always going to be the possibility of "OOP"s (Out Of Position...literally, an "oops!" play). But that was kind of the point I was trying to make: there's a synergistic effect on the defense when a player reaches a certain level of wildly energetic effectiveness. Other players step up, they play with more energy, you see more help...and of course there's going to be a tradeoff in the form of an easy bucket given up now and then.

Thing is, that aggressive, synergistic defense puts a lot of pressure on the opposing offense. Poor or average teams tend to scramble, and have neither the individual skills nor a well-practiced offensive system to fall back on. That's where the fact that they're often going against 2 or 3 or even 5 subs comes into play.

Against better teams, or even just better-coached teams, that effectiveness may drop off pretty steeply. And that's why I don't mind seeing DC/Hayward/Burks still on the 2nd team. What's the advantage of depth if it isn't to burn other teams' 2nd unit?

And when we trade Millsap for Bledsoe and get Mo back, it's a whole different team anyway...or does that can of worms get opened in another thread?

Trollificus wrote:

Yeah, for the "ODD" player, there's always going to be the possibility of "OOP"s (Out Of Position...literally, an "oops!" play). But that was kind of the point I was trying to make: there's a synergistic effect on the defense when a player reaches a certain level of wildly energetic effectiveness. Other players step up, they play with more energy, you see more help...and of course there's going to be a tradeoff in the form of an easy bucket given up now and then.

Thing is, that aggressive, synergistic defense puts a lot of pressure on the opposing offense. Poor or average teams tend to scramble, and have neither the individual skills nor a well-practiced offensive system to fall back on. That's where the fact that they're often going against 2 or 3 or even 5 subs comes into play.

Against better teams, or even just better-coached teams, that effectiveness may drop off pretty steeply. And that's why I don't mind seeing DC/Hayward/Burks still on the 2nd team. What's the advantage of depth if it isn't to burn other teams' 2nd unit?

And when we trade Millsap for Bledsoe and get Mo back, it's a whole different team anyway...or does that can of worms get opened in another thread?

You know, one thing I'd love to see is a statistical breakdown of where Carroll gets his steals from. I see a lot on inbound and transition plays. Awesome! I see some from set defense gambling. Again awesome! What I'm unsure about is how effective he is at the ODD, like AK was for example. As far as being a Bruce Bowen or Battie or Allen or Deng or Iggy, well, he's not even sniffing the jock.

I love Carroll's game and don't mean to take anything away from him. At all. But he's just not some perennial 7-8 million per year stopper.

Again, love his game, would rather talk up his very underrated and acute offensive awareness. Kid understands his role and court awareness impressively well.