Boozer, anyone?

I realize this site is loaded with Tribtalk folk who absolutley hated Boozer. But, c'mon, now that he's gone, let's admit that he isn't a completely crappy player.

IMO, Boozer is one of the best players the Jazz have had in the 21st century. So is D-Will. I love our rebuilding team, but, I don't think we should ignore what we had.

Koufos, Boozer, D-Will, Korver, and Millsap? Sure, I understand the reasons why Boozer and D-Will were moved on. But, still. When I look back at it, though, unless we're ready to look at this team as completely rebuilding, we might have made a mistake.

Then again, if we're looking at rebuilding, we have the most competitive rebuilding team in the entire NBA outside of the Denver Nuggets, Orlando, and Golden State. Boozer (and D-Will) could have been a part of our rebuilding team. All we needed to do was outlast our overpayment of AK47. Once AK was gone, we would have had room to move in free agency. As it turned out, we had to boot Boozer, and then D-Will. We also had to let Korver and Wes Mathews go. Talk about the tribulations of a small market team! Put those guys back together, like a money team could easily accomplish, and we would be at the top of our bracket!

While I understand that this isn't responding to the entirety of your post, and more-so just a reaction to the thread title .....

No, No, No.

I'll take Al over Carlos any day, any time. Neither play any D, but at least Al's size occasionally rewards him with a blocked shot or two. Both are very strong offensive players, and Carlos is the more willing passer. The biggest thing that separates them in my eyes is that Carlos is a me-first, sissy, injury-prone, moron that doesn't know when to shut his mercenary, money, money, mouth. While Al appears to be a good guy, who seems to be a good teammate and mentor.

Al > Booooooozer .......and one!

But Boozer is the only player in NBA to punch referee in the nuts and not even get a technical...To bad it was not Bavetta or Javie or Salvatore...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhpwOgiRuCk

Calgary Jazz wrote:

But Boozer is the only player in NBA to punch referee in the nuts and not even get a technical...To bad it was not Bavetta or Javie or Salvatore...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhpwOgiRuCk

Hell he even got a free throw out of it. Funny chit.

zero24gravity wrote:

While I understand that this isn't responding to the entirety of your post, and more-so just a reaction to the thread title .....

No, No, No.

I'll take Al over Carlos any day, any time. Neither play any D, but at least Al's size occasionally rewards him with a blocked shot or two. Both are very strong offensive players, and Carlos is the more willing passer. The biggest thing that separates them in my eyes is that Carlos is a me-first, sissy, injury-prone, moron that doesn't know when to shut his mercenary, money, money, mouth. While Al appears to be a good guy, who seems to be a good teammate and mentor.

Al > Booooooozer .......and one!

That is really what it all comes down to for me. On the court...meh. I think Boozer was better on the court (when he was on the court) with the Jazz than Jefferson. But Jefferson has just been such a solid guy and teamate that today with both players being what they are I'd take Jefferson.

Roll back the clock though and I'm not sure the choice is clear. What would Jefferson have been like if the Jazz had drafted him instead of Humphries and he had been given the opportunity to grow up in Jerry Sloans system? Might be a totally different player than the one we are seeing now, or might be just the same, never know.

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

While I understand that this isn't responding to the entirety of your post, and more-so just a reaction to the thread title .....

No, No, No.

I'll take Al over Carlos any day, any time. Neither play any D, but at least Al's size occasionally rewards him with a blocked shot or two. Both are very strong offensive players, and Carlos is the more willing passer. The biggest thing that separates them in my eyes is that Carlos is a me-first, sissy, injury-prone, moron that doesn't know when to shut his mercenary, money, money, mouth. While Al appears to be a good guy, who seems to be a good teammate and mentor.

Al > Booooooozer .......and one!

That is really what it all comes down to for me. On the court...meh. I think Boozer was better on the court (when he was on the court) with the Jazz than Jefferson. But Jefferson has just been such a solid guy and teamate that today with both players being what they are I'd take Jefferson.

Roll back the clock though and I'm not sure the choice is clear. What would Jefferson have been like if the Jazz had drafted him instead of Humphries and he had been given the opportunity to grow up in Jerry Sloans system? Might be a totally different player than the one we are seeing now, or might be just the same, never know.

I don't really look back on the days of Boozer, Deron, Okur and long for those days. I mean I miss Deron, but not Boozer. he was just as bad if not worse on defense as Al and he had a shitty attitude to go along with it.

What real success did we have with those guys? We got lucky one year and made it to the conference finals, but that was only because GS somehow managed to take the Mavs out in the first round. That team maxed out. It was a team that some years might make it to the second round but nothing more.

Romoholic wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

While I understand that this isn't responding to the entirety of your post, and more-so just a reaction to the thread title .....

No, No, No.

I'll take Al over Carlos any day, any time. Neither play any D, but at least Al's size occasionally rewards him with a blocked shot or two. Both are very strong offensive players, and Carlos is the more willing passer. The biggest thing that separates them in my eyes is that Carlos is a me-first, sissy, injury-prone, moron that doesn't know when to shut his mercenary, money, money, mouth. While Al appears to be a good guy, who seems to be a good teammate and mentor.

Al > Booooooozer .......and one!

That is really what it all comes down to for me. On the court...meh. I think Boozer was better on the court (when he was on the court) with the Jazz than Jefferson. But Jefferson has just been such a solid guy and teamate that today with both players being what they are I'd take Jefferson.

Roll back the clock though and I'm not sure the choice is clear. What would Jefferson have been like if the Jazz had drafted him instead of Humphries and he had been given the opportunity to grow up in Jerry Sloans system? Might be a totally different player than the one we are seeing now, or might be just the same, never know.

I don't really look back on the days of Boozer, Deron, Okur and long for those days. I mean I miss Deron, but not Boozer. he was just as bad if not worse on defense as Al and he had a shitty attitude to go along with it.

What real success did we have with those guys? We got lucky one year and made it to the conference finals, but that was only because GS somehow managed to take the Mavs out in the first round. That team maxed out. It was a team that some years might make it to the second round but nothing more.

I think that team was more about bad luck than good. I think that fully healthy that team was good enough to be a contender. They were both lucky and good in 2007, don't forget they beat a VERY good Houston team before facing the Warriors. The next season they beat Houston again and then pushed a great Laker team hard in 6 games. That was when the "luck" ran out. They were never healthy in the playoffs again, Boozer, AK, Memo, Korver, Brewer, and D-Will all missed time and limped into the playoffs with various injuries. AK was the biggest loss, he was injured at the end of both of those last two seasons and the Jazz just weren't the same without him.

Especially in 2009-2010. That was really the apex of that team, so many guys in the heart of their prime, so many weapons, they were devastated by injuries but were still right there as one of the best teams in the west, and they were better than their record showed. Matthews had given the Jazz another solid wing and the Jazz were top 10 in the NBA in both offensive and defensive (!) efficiency and they were freaking loaded. They beat Denver playing without AK, Memo, and Brewer before getting a swept in a series where the games were closer than the series made it seem by the eventual champion Lakers. I firmly believe that a fully healthy squad would have have a very good chance of beating the Lakers, winning the west, and going to the finals that year...but it was not to be.

TheMagnus wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

While I understand that this isn't responding to the entirety of your post, and more-so just a reaction to the thread title .....

No, No, No.

I'll take Al over Carlos any day, any time. Neither play any D, but at least Al's size occasionally rewards him with a blocked shot or two. Both are very strong offensive players, and Carlos is the more willing passer. The biggest thing that separates them in my eyes is that Carlos is a me-first, sissy, injury-prone, moron that doesn't know when to shut his mercenary, money, money, mouth. While Al appears to be a good guy, who seems to be a good teammate and mentor.

Al > Booooooozer .......and one!

That is really what it all comes down to for me. On the court...meh. I think Boozer was better on the court (when he was on the court) with the Jazz than Jefferson. But Jefferson has just been such a solid guy and teamate that today with both players being what they are I'd take Jefferson.

Roll back the clock though and I'm not sure the choice is clear. What would Jefferson have been like if the Jazz had drafted him instead of Humphries and he had been given the opportunity to grow up in Jerry Sloans system? Might be a totally different player than the one we are seeing now, or might be just the same, never know.

I don't really look back on the days of Boozer, Deron, Okur and long for those days. I mean I miss Deron, but not Boozer. he was just as bad if not worse on defense as Al and he had a shitty attitude to go along with it.

What real success did we have with those guys? We got lucky one year and made it to the conference finals, but that was only because GS somehow managed to take the Mavs out in the first round. That team maxed out. It was a team that some years might make it to the second round but nothing more.

I think that team was more about bad luck than good. I think that fully healthy that team was good enough to be a contender. They were both lucky and good in 2007, don't forget they beat a VERY good Houston team before facing the Warriors. The next season they beat Houston again and then pushed a great Laker team hard in 6 games. That was when the "luck" ran out. They were never healthy in the playoffs again, Boozer, AK, Memo, Korver, Brewer, and D-Will all missed time and limped into the playoffs with various injuries. AK was the biggest loss, he was injured at the end of both of those last two seasons and the Jazz just weren't the same without him.

Especially in 2009-2010. That was really the apex of that team, so many guys in the heart of their prime, so many weapons, they were devastated by injuries but were still right there as one of the best teams in the west, and they were better than their record showed. Matthews had given the Jazz another solid wing and the Jazz were top 10 in the NBA in both offensive and defensive (!) efficiency and they were freaking loaded. They beat Denver playing without AK, Memo, and Brewer before getting a swept in a series where the games were closer than the series made it seem by the eventual champion Lakers. I firmly believe that a fully healthy squad would have have a very good chance of beating the Lakers, winning the west, and going to the finals that year...but it was not to be.

Great point about the Jazz having bad luck back then. I think it was a combo of bad luck and one fo mistake that stopped the Jazz from advancing back in the D-Will/Boozer days. One destroyer for the Jazz was Memo's injury that eventually ended his career (but, it took so long to recognize he would never be back, so, the Jazz never moved on until it was much too late). And, the more obvious problem was AK's max contract. We were constantly giving up players because we were overpaying AK by ten million dollars.

But, all that aside. Back to Boozer. It still seems pretty obvious that Jazz fans on this site do not think Boozer was that good of a player for the Jazz to have. It's interesting that many are saying Al Jefferson was/is an improvement. On another thread, it's been hard to determine whether Big Al is even one of the Jazz' best five players on our current team. But, Boozer has been a key factor in the success of the Bulls (even though he is sometimes on the bench at the end of the game). Boozer isn't the automatic 20-10 for the Bulls (like he was for the Jazz). But, Boozer is a main reason why the Bulls are still in a decent playoff position (albeit in the East).

What I'd like to hear about is from our Jazz fans that are saying DC or Burks should be getting major minutes for the Jazz. If DC and Burks are better than Big Al, they must also be better than Boozer. Is DC or Burks better than Boozer? I'd have to say no. Is DC or Burks better than Big Al? I'd also have to say no.

Saint Louis wrote:

Great point about the Jazz having bad luck back then. I think it was a combo of bad luck and one fo mistake that stopped the Jazz from advancing back in the D-Will/Boozer days. One destroyer for the Jazz was Memo's injury that eventually ended his career (but, it took so long to recognize he would never be back, so, the Jazz never moved on until it was much too late). And, the more obvious problem was AK's max contract. We were constantly giving up players because we were overpaying AK by ten million dollars.

But, all that aside. Back to Boozer. It still seems pretty obvious that Jazz fans on this site do not think Boozer was that good of a player for the Jazz to have. It's interesting that many are saying Al Jefferson was/is an improvement. On another thread, it's been hard to determine whether Big Al is even one of the Jazz' best five players on our current team. But, Boozer has been a key factor in the success of the Bulls (even though he is sometimes on the bench at the end of the game). Boozer isn't the automatic 20-10 for the Bulls (like he was for the Jazz). But, Boozer is a main reason why the Bulls are still in a decent playoff position (albeit in the East).

What I'd like to hear about is from our Jazz fans that are saying DC or Burks should be getting major minutes for the Jazz. If DC and Burks are better than Big Al, they must also be better than Boozer. Is DC or Burks better than Boozer? I'd have to say no. Is DC or Burks better than Big Al? I'd also have to say no.

Well you can count me as one of the ones saying that Al was NOT an improvement over Boozer on the court. I know I'm in the minority there, but I'm pretty convinced that is the case. As a personality it's not even close, Jefferson in a landslide, but personality don't win games. That being said, if we roll the way back machine to the summer of 2010 and I'm not allowed to chose"none of the above" I'm taking 3 years and $42 million worth of Al Jefferson over 5 years and $70 million of Carlos Boozer every time.

I would also note that, in terms of the Jazz giving away players, the fire-sale didn't start until after the 2009-2010 season. The end of that season was the end of that era of Jazz basketball, we've been in transition ever since.

TheMagnus wrote:

Saint Louis wrote:

Great point about the Jazz having bad luck back then. I think it was a combo of bad luck and one fo mistake that stopped the Jazz from advancing back in the D-Will/Boozer days. One destroyer for the Jazz was Memo's injury that eventually ended his career (but, it took so long to recognize he would never be back, so, the Jazz never moved on until it was much too late). And, the more obvious problem was AK's max contract. We were constantly giving up players because we were overpaying AK by ten million dollars.

But, all that aside. Back to Boozer. It still seems pretty obvious that Jazz fans on this site do not think Boozer was that good of a player for the Jazz to have. It's interesting that many are saying Al Jefferson was/is an improvement. On another thread, it's been hard to determine whether Big Al is even one of the Jazz' best five players on our current team. But, Boozer has been a key factor in the success of the Bulls (even though he is sometimes on the bench at the end of the game). Boozer isn't the automatic 20-10 for the Bulls (like he was for the Jazz). But, Boozer is a main reason why the Bulls are still in a decent playoff position (albeit in the East).

What I'd like to hear about is from our Jazz fans that are saying DC or Burks should be getting major minutes for the Jazz. If DC and Burks are better than Big Al, they must also be better than Boozer. Is DC or Burks better than Boozer? I'd have to say no. Is DC or Burks better than Big Al? I'd also have to say no.

Well you can count me as one of the ones saying that Al was NOT an improvement over Boozer on the court. I know I'm in the minority there, but I'm pretty convinced that is the case. As a personality it's not even close, Jefferson in a landslide, but personality don't win games. That being said, if we roll the way back machine to the summer of 2010 and I'm not allowed to chose"none of the above" I'm taking 3 years and $42 million worth of Al Jefferson over 5 years and $70 million of Carlos Boozer every time.

I would also note that, in terms of the Jazz giving away players, the fire-sale didn't start until after the 2009-2010 season. The end of that season was the end of that era of Jazz basketball, we've been in transition ever since.

Yep, you're right, IMO. Al Jefferson, at the time, was a better investment move, even though he may not have been an improvement over Boozer. But, god, wouldn't it have been great for the Jazz if we could have those guys back and still add Heyhay, Favors, and Kanter?!!! That, of course, is completely impossible. But, a Jazz team of D-Will, Korver, Heyhay, Boozer, and Koufos, with a bench of Tinsley, Wes Mathews, Favors, Millsap, and Kanter-- that would be insane for a small market team. Portland, actually, did a really good job of making this impossible by two straight years of trying to poach Jazz players. (Of course, Favors and a draft pick would never have been possible if we didn't do what we did.) It's all wishful thinking, and not realistic on my part. We're Utah, and can't make the impossible happen the way Big Market teams are able to have it all.

Considering skill set alone....I would take Boozer over Al all day long.
However, factor in that boozer was about as durable as wet toilet paper, and he had to sit out for three weeks every time he had a menstrual cycle....plus his douche bag personality and attitude....I'd take Al over boozer.