record with current roster

Romoholic wrote:

The guy is one of those idiots that only think you are improved if you sign a superstar. Not taking into account that KOC went out and addressed the areas that were a weakness for the Jazz last season.

Around January you are gonna see people talking about the "surprising Jazz". They are only going to be surprised because they were too lazy to study teams outside of the *****, Heat, Spurs and Nets. This team is being constructed in the proper way and that's not sexy enough for most media outside SL to want to followl

That is truly ridiculous, its amazing how uninformed he is. This is no homer stuff, all you have to do is look at the teams that finished above and below Utah and make your judgement there. Yes the ***** got better, yes the Clippers got better, OKC will be slightly better. San Antonio is the same, but they did smoke us. So there, those 4 teams still finish above us. You have Memphis who lost OJ Mayo, which, eh, not much of a difference. But they didn't get better. Then you get to Utah who absolutely addressed all their needs, but didn't lose a thing, not a THING that made them good enough for 8th last year. So they will be better. However, Denver is exactly the same, Dallas got worse and Houston is horribly worse. Denver/Dallas finished above Utah, but just barely. Houston was fighting Utah for 8th. So for all intents and purposes, Utah will be better than all of them. Not to mention, between Dallas, Denver, Memphis and Utah, as far as I know Utah is the only one of the 4 that can be expected to have serious improvement from their 2nd and 3rd year players.

It's not like its homer, or blind hope, its just basketball sense.
(Utah beats out Memphis and just barely skips past San Antonio for 4th and homecourt!)

I will tell you what Looking at the Jazz player's Hayward, Burks, Foye and Mo Williams they are all ball handler's that can hit shots to stretch the floor and that in its self is going to make the Jazz a much improved team No Question about it and if Marv Williams come's in and can hit the 3 pt shot like we have seen him do this is a very good shooting team unlike year's past with the ability to make the pass out to the open man, team's are going to have to guard them. That is going to open up the paint for the big's and they could have their best season ever these guys have shown that they can put the ball in the hoop and with room in the paint they are going to be ever harder to defend and if that don't show improvement then some guys just don't know what they are talking about.

The only real weakness I see with the Jazz is size compared to other team's in the West they are a small team and that is going to make things tough on them being in Western Conference I hate to say. I know that there are some on here that think otherwise they have told me so but Height in the NBA make's a very big difference in the Playoffs even with the new rules thing's don't come easy in the paint at that time of the season, that's why it is said that defense win's titles and size has everything to do with defending the basket and getting rebound. I think one of the big problem's for the Jazz last season what getting rebounds at the end of game's they just did not have the size to get the job done against the big's in the West.

So if the Jazz are going to make any more moves this season using Watson and Bell as bait then I myself would like to see them add a true 7 footer with the ability to defend the basket and rebound at the end of games when the Jazz needs to get the rebounding job done. There is one guy that come's to my mind that I think the Jazz might be able to get for Watson and Bell who IMO could really help them as a player coming off of the bench B.J. Mullens from the Bobcats the guy can hit shot's out to the 3 pt line and has shown he can rebound who is a true 7 footer. The Bobcats are short on the PG position and a veteran like Watson as the 3rd PG could really help this team and with them picking up Brendan Haywood and already having Bismack Biyombo, DeSagana Diop and Tyrus Thomas there's not going to be very much playing time for Mullens so they might be willing to deal him. I think this Kid can become a pretty good role player in the NBA a guy that has shooting skills and is 7 feet tall will always have a place in this league.



Successful Trade Scenario

Due to Utah being over the cap, the 50% trade rule is invoked. Utah had to be no more than 150% plus $100,000 of the salary given out, or no more than $5,000,000 (whichever is lesser), for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Trade ID #6139006

Every trade made by fans is allocated a unique Trade ID which you can share with friends and fellow basketball fans to allow them to see your trade scenario.

Utah Jazz Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +8.3 ppg, +4.0 rpg, and -2.8 apg.
Incoming Players

Reggie Williams 25 year old , 6-6, 210 lb F from Virginia Military
8.3 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 1.8 apg in 22.6 minutes

B.J. Mullens 23 year old , 7-0, 275 lb C from Ohio State
9.3 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 0.9 apg in 22.5 minutes

Outgoing Players

Raja Bell 35 year old , 6-5, 204 lb G from Florida International
6.4 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 1.1 apg in 23.4 minutes in 2011-2012

Earl Watson 33 year old , 6-1, 195 lb G from UCLA
3.0 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 4.3 apg in 20.6 minutes in 2011-2012

Alright, who has Hollingers rankings for teams? I'm definitely interested, after Bleacherreport blew their opinion straight out of their....


http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/FuturePowerRankings-1-120815/1-5

Mutangclan wrote:

Alright, who has Hollingers rankings for teams? I'm definitely interested, after Bleacherreport blew their opinion straight out of their....


http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/FuturePowerRankings-1-120815/1-5

He has jazz ranked 4th behind Miami, OKC, and LAL.

Said he:

Quote :

A year and half ago, the Jazz looked dead in the water. Franchise legend Jerry Sloan retired in the middle of the season and All-Star point guard Deron Williams was abruptly shipped to the Nets at the trade deadline for a handful of prospects.

But after two really solid summers and a better-than-expected season in 2011-12, our optimism for the Jazz has never been higher. How does a No. 8-seed in the Western Conference without any stars warrant such a position?

Despite working in a less-than-desirable market, Jazz executive vice president Kevin O'Connor continues to be proactive in rebuilding this roster in a way that keeps the team winning while adding young pieces for the future.

The Jazz have solid veterans such as Paul Millsap and Al Jefferson, but they also have very intriguing young players being groomed at multiple positions. Derrick Favors, a No. 3 overall pick, looked like a potential stud at the end of last season. Gordon Hayward improved dramatically in his second year. And lottery picks Enes Kanter and Alec Burks showed potential in their rookie season.

This summer, the Jazz took another step forward by acquiring point guard Mo Williams for essentially nothing. We believe Williams is a major upgrade over Devin Harris and should help bring stability to the roster. The addition of Marvin Williams should also help. While Marvin Williams has failed to live up to his pre-draft reputation, the player once selected a spot ahead of Deron Williams is still a solid defender who adds a veteran presence at the 3.

O'Connor has also been the master at acquiring additional lottery picks over the years, and the Jazz are set to grab another one from the Golden State Warriors in 2013. The team is also poised to have some real money to work with next summer when Jefferson, Millsap and Mo Williams come off the books.

The Jazz also put a succession plan for the 63-year-old O'Connor in motion this summer by appointing Dennis Lindsey of the Spurs as their new general manager. Lindsey is highly regarded by just about everyone in the league and should be ready to run things after being mentored by Carroll Dawson, R.C. Buford and now O'Connor.

The Jazz are still a year or two and a piece or two away from being serious contenders, but all signs continue to point in the right direction.

These were ESPN's "future power rankings". If you haven't heard of those, here is their definition and justification:

Quote :

The Future Power Rankings are ESPN Insider's projection of the on-court success expected for each team in the 2013-14, 2014-15 and 2015-16 seasons.

HOW FUTURE POWER RATING IS DETERMINED
PLAYERS (0 to 600 points): Current players and their potential for the future, factoring in expected departures
MANAGEMENT (0 to 200 points): Quality and stability of front office, ownership, coaching
MONEY (0 to 200 points): Projected salary-cap situation; ability and willingness to exceed cap and pay luxury tax
MARKET (0 to 100 points): Appeal to future acquisitions based on team quality, franchise reputation, city's desirability as a destination, market size, taxes, business and entertainment opportunities, arena quality, fans
DRAFT (0 to 100 points): Future draft picks; draft positioning

Quote :

Consider this a convenient way to see the direction in which your favorite team is headed.

Each of the NBA's 30 teams received an overall Future Power Rating of 0 to 1,200, based on how well we expect each team to perform in the three seasons after this season.

To determine the Future Power Rating, we rated each team in five categories (see table at right).

As you can see, we determined that the most important category is a team's current roster and the future potential of those players -- that category accounts for 50 percent of each team's overall Future Power Rating.

At the same time, we looked at many other factors, such as management, ownership, coaching, a team's spending habits, its cap situation, the reputation of the city and the franchise and what kind of draft picks we expect the team to have in the future.

VOR, serious?? 4th??? Holy schmolley.....I may lean on the positive, but DAMN!! 4th??! Wow.

Not that I disagree with anything posted, I too think that Mo is a huge upgrade at the point, and Marv will be a huge upgrade at SF. Not to mention the youth and teams growth. Wow though, 4th. Hmmm.

dongibby wrote:

The only real weakness I see with the Jazz is size compared to other team's in the West they are a small team and that is going to make things tough on them being in Western Conference I hate to say. I know that there are some on here that think otherwise they have told me so but Height in the NBA make's a very big difference in the Playoffs even with the new rules thing's don't come easy in the paint at that time of the season, that's why it is said that defense win's titles and size has everything to do with defending the basket and getting rebound. I think one of the big problem's for the Jazz last season what getting rebounds at the end of game's they just did not have the size to get the job done against the big's in the West.

So if the Jazz are going to make any more moves this season using Watson and Bell as bait then I myself would like to see them add a true 7 footer with the ability to defend the basket and rebound at the end of games when the Jazz needs to get the rebounding job done. There is one guy that come's to my mind

Jazz not tall or long? You looking at the same roster I am? You mentioned late game rebounding? That man is Enes Kanter. I think even Jazz fans are overlooking the quantum leap forward that guy is capable of making this season. Just like Favors, high young pick who took a couple of seasons to get it going on. I think the Jazz, and definitely me, are high on Kanter. He is far from a long-term project.

MTJazz wrote:

Jazz not tall or long? You looking at the same roster I am? You mentioned late game rebounding? That man is Enes Kanter. I think even Jazz fans are overlooking the quantum leap forward that guy is capable of making this season. Just like Favors, high young pick who took a couple of seasons to get it going on. I think the Jazz, and definitely me, are high on Kanter. He is far from a long-term project.

Yea, thought the same thing MT. Even if Kanter was the exact same as last year, we still aren't suffering in the rebounding or size area. We killed guys most of the year in rebounds. And we know that Kanter will be better than last year, and with all the training he'll finally get, I'm betting he returns as a force to be reckoned with.
We have 3 legit 6'10-6'11 or bigger guys, and Paul who rebounds with the best of them.

Mutangclan wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

Jazz not tall or long? You looking at the same roster I am? You mentioned late game rebounding? That man is Enes Kanter. I think even Jazz fans are overlooking the quantum leap forward that guy is capable of making this season. Just like Favors, high young pick who took a couple of seasons to get it going on. I think the Jazz, and definitely me, are high on Kanter. He is far from a long-term project.

Yea, thought the same thing MT. Even if Kanter was the exact same as last year, we still aren't suffering in the rebounding or size area. We killed guys most of the year in rebounds. And we know that Kanter will be better than last year, and with all the training he'll finally get, I'm betting he returns as a force to be reckoned with.
We have 3 legit 6'10-6'11 or bigger guys, and Paul who rebounds with the best of them.

Dallas has two 7 footer's Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Kaman Denver has two JaVale McGee, Kosta Koufos and one that is 7'1 Timofey Mozgov Golden State has Andrew Bogut Huston has Omer Asik and Donatas Motiejunas Clipper's have DeAndre Jordan, Ryan Hollins Laker's have Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol Memphis has Marc Gasol a 7'2 guy and Hamed Haddadi at 7'2 New Orleans has Robin Lopez and Jason Smith, all I am saying is there are a lot of height in the West that's why I say the Jazz are not long or tall compared to most other team's in the West.

I picked 35 and making the playoffs for last season. This year 54. But, I bet the the roster will change and I think in a pretty substantial way.

dongibby wrote:

Dallas has two 7 footer's Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Kaman Denver has two JaVale McGee, Kosta Koufos and one that is 7'1 Timofey Mozgov Golden State has Andrew Bogut Huston has Omer Asik and Donatas Motiejunas Clipper's have DeAndre Jordan, Ryan Hollins Laker's have Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol Memphis has Marc Gasol a 7'2 guy and Hamed Haddadi at 7'2 New Orleans has Robin Lopez and Jason Smith, all I am saying is there are a lot of height in the West that's why I say the Jazz are not long or tall compared to most other team's in the West.

Dirk doesnt rebound or play in the paint.
All the rest in bold dont even play or have an impact.
Also McGee isn't a threat scoring, Mozgoz is an average player, Bogut can't stay healthy, Asik is purely a defensive player same with Deandre Jordan.

Yes, the Fakers are big and will have to be dealt with, but they're the only really problem.

Al took Marc Gasol to school last year. Other than that, only big guys on here that can make it tough on our guys sometimes are Kaman and Marc Gasol and they're the only ones on their teams who play in the paint and have an impact. We have at least two.
Our guys can rebound and score with all of those you listed, regardless of height.

Not to mention, if the starting lineup is what I anticipate with MO/GH/Mav/Fav/Al we will have a big SG, a big SF, a big PF and big C compared to average starting players.

Here's an updated Report Card from Chad Ford for the Jazz offseason...

Chad Ford wrote:

Key additions: Mo Williams (trade), Marvin Williams (trade), Jeremy Evans (re-sign), Kevin Murphy (draft), Randy Foye (FA), Dennis Lindsey (GM)

Key subtractions: Devin Harris

The Jazz continue to quietly rebuild both their roster and their front office. They shocked just about everyone when they made the playoffs last season and did a few things this summer to make sure they stayed in contention for a seventh or eighth seed in the Western Conference.

Once again, executive vice president Kevin O'Connor deftly used his assets to add depth to his roster. He turned Mehmet Okur's trade exception into a starting point guard and turned Harris' expiring deal into Marvin Williams.

Mo Williams should be a significant upgrade over Harris at the point. He is a better shooter and plays the pick-and-roll much better than Harris. And Marvin Williams' shooting stroke and defensive abilities give Utah some much-needed depth at small forward.

I also liked their second-round draft choice. Murphy was one of the best scorers in college basketball last season, and he has deep range on his jumper. He is not the strongest or most athletic guy, but he could give the Jazz a nice scoring bump off the bench.

Utah has significant assets going forward, with expiring contracts in Paul Millsap and Al Jefferson along with, most likely, the Warriors' 2013 first-round pick. If the Jazz want to make another big deal, they have the tools to get it done.

But Utah's real progress will be determined by the growth of its young players. Derrick Favors and Gordon Hayward both have a chance to be special. Enes Kanter and Alec Burks could end up being solid as well. If they continue to improve, the Jazz are going to be tough to beat in a few years.

Perhaps the biggest news of the summer, however, was O'Connor's decision to hand over the GM duties to the Spurs' Dennis Lindsey. O'Connor, who has been with the club since 1999, has set up the Jazz for another long run and made a great call in putting in place a succession plan that included Lindsey. He has got the perfect combination of basketball and management IQ, along with the requisite dose of humility, to follow in O'Connor's huge footsteps.

GRADE: B+

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8262146/nba-updated-offseason-grades-every-team

Interesting that Ford sees the Jazz as dangerous in a couple years rather than, say this year rather than replicating, (a low bar) the 8th pick or so this year. People have short memories, don't they? Everyone seems to forget the Jazz were in the hunt for the 4-5 pick until the last couple weeks of the season, (where yes, they barely slipped in at . Forgetting youth improvement, the off-season subtractions and additions already made them a better team and I'd argue their are none of the pundits teams 3-6 that can claim similar upgrades at 3 positions. Whattevah, always fun to read the pre-season schmack down cause it rarely works out that way in the end except for the top 3 teams. I say Jazz have a serious shot at home court in the first round and if not that, look out 3rd or 4th seed, comin at ya.

MTJazz wrote:

Interesting that Ford sees the Jazz as dangerous in a couple years rather than, say this year rather than replicating, (a low bar) the 8th pick or so this year. People have short memories, don't they? Everyone seems to forget the Jazz were in the hunt for the 4-5 pick until the last couple weeks of the season, (where yes, they barely slipped in at . Forgetting youth improvement, the off-season subtractions and additions already made them a better team and I'd argue their are none of the pundits teams 3-6 that can claim similar upgrades at 3 positions. Whattevah, always fun to read the pre-season schmack down cause it rarely works out that way in the end except for the top 3 teams. I say Jazz have a serious shot at home court in the first round and if not that, look out 3rd or 4th seed, comin at ya.

I think that was one of the few, if any spot on assessments of how good these players and this team could be. The West this year though has LAx2, OKC, Spurs, Denver and Memphis who all should be better than or at least will fight Utah for seeding. So thats 7 teams right there, not including Minnesota and I guess Dallas. So can't say I boldly disagree with Ford. But.....

I do disagree!! Hah. And agree with you MT. Jazz stayed just as good as last year when they were fighting for the 6,7th seed the last couple weeks. But now their youth and chemistry will be better no doubt. And oh yea, like Ford said we had a significant upgrade at PG. Lastly, we immediately addressed our deficiencies with Marv and Foye and Mo for the outside shooting. Nobody addressed their deficiencies as well as Utah did without losing something. Denver added a stud in Iggy, but lost a ton of outside/3pt shooting in Afflalo and Harrington.
So I agree wholeheartedly, Utah will fight for homecourt in the first round. 3 things are always certain from Utah: the word "dang", Jazz underrated, and construction on the roadways.

rorybreaker wrote:

I picked 35 and making the playoffs for last season. This year 54. But, I bet the the roster will change and I think in a pretty substantial way.

I'm just reiterating my pick (ALSO 54), and pointing out that I also predicted most analysts would lean towards the lazy Bleacher Report style rather than the insightful Mr. Ford's analysis.

Lazy reports will miss the things that have been pointed out in this thread and elsewhere, things that will go unnoticed by the lazy analyst.

Mo Williams doesn't have to be a better player than Devin Harris (I think he is, but...), his skills just have to complement team needs better than Harris'. I think we will see the replacement of one player with a very slightly superior player resulting in a HUGE upgrade in PG play.

Internal improvement. Lazy reporters who don't know the team won't have a clue about this almost inevitable improvement.

Lazy analysts probably still consider the Jazz a "grind-it-out, lunch bucket" kind of team, which stereotype, by now, is almost meaningless. The Jazz are HELLA athletic, strong, long and fast and have great perimeter and backcout size and adequate interior size. We SHOULD be a fast break team, but I don't know if Ty has it in him to push for that.

Situational improvements. The relocation of Foye, Marv and Mo from prior problematic rosters/situations to Utah might, MIGHT (I'd almost say "probably will") result in dramatically improved play from each of them. A lazy reporter won't go to the trouble to check this possibility, but I think it's a highly likely result.

So when you see predictions placing the Jazz 9th in the West, or hovering around .500, that's why you can just write it off.

Growing up, is tough. There will be bumps upon the road. I am not as high as everyone. I still think they improved across the board. Here is my concern. Say they win 50 games. Where is that in the West? It is so freaking loaded. 2007-08 50 wins was good enough for 8th!!!! I think it will be similar.

OKC
SA
Lak ers
Clippers
Nuggets
Grizzlies

Are the Jazz better than any of these teams? I'd say no, but im a pessimist. Even if the Jazz improve, I still see them as a 7th seed.

Romoholic wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

I'm thinking optimisticly. 55 games.

I don't see the Jazz sucking so bad on the road this year for one thing, plus I think the subtle tweak in roster strengths is just enough to take this team up another level when combined with pretty much guaranteed improvements in the young core.

That's the thing. Outside of the additions we have made, we will get improvement from Favors, Hayward and Burks. As well as the subtraction of Bell and CJ, I think this team is going to be very good this season. I'm excited!

Great thread. One of the best points is one I hate to agree with (but, I do), the plus of getting rid of CJ and Raja. I was never a big CJ fan, but, I've always advocated developement of players so I may have defended him instead of saying 3 years ago that we should let him go. And, I was also happy we took Raja back when we did-- I liked him as a Jazz player when we had him the first time, and I was impressed with how well he played for Phoenix (3pters went in!), and he almost became my hero when he cotheslined MJ wannabe in the playoffs after MJ wannabe was repetitavely getting away with constant fouling-- but, Raja definitely didn't pan out for the Jazz with his 2nd stint.

I also over-valued Devin Harris. I thought he would be just about as good as D-Will, with us getting Favors on top of it! (The Favors part turned out pretty good). Now, we have Mo back (who we never should have let go in the first place), and most people agree he is an improvement on Harris! We've upgraded through trades and drafts-- so, now we're potentially strong at every position. Basketball is a team sport, and I hope the Jazz can prove it.

The only thing we don't have is dominance at any one position. We don't have a top five pg, sg, sf, pf, or center. Obviously, we dominated with Stockton and Malone and that took us very far. Arguably, we had a semi-dominant combo of D-Will and Boozer (the way we used them) and that made us one of the top ten. Teams without top players sometimes succeed (last year, Indy, Philly, San Antonio, and the Jazz did really well without having any top five players). But, I think you'd have to go back pretty far to find a championship team that didn't have at least one player that can dominate the way elite players dominate. I'd love for the Jazz to set the record straight. I just don't think we're at that level.

We have a great team, better than most. I'll predict 50 wins-- but, if we gel as a team, we can do much better!

Trollificus wrote:

Lazy analysts probably still consider the Jazz a "grind-it-out, lunch bucket" kind of team, which stereotype, by now, is almost meaningless. The Jazz are HELLA athletic, strong, long and fast and have great perimeter and backcout size and adequate interior size. We SHOULD be a fast break team, but I don't know if Ty has it in him to push for that.

Situational improvements. The relocation of Foye, Marv and Mo from prior problematic rosters/situations to Utah might, MIGHT (I'd almost say "probably will") result in dramatically improved play from each of them. A lazy reporter won't go to the trouble to check this possibility, but I think it's a highly likely result.

So when you see predictions placing the Jazz 9th in the West, or hovering around .500, that's why you can just write it off.

Great post Troll. Thats all I got. Oh, and a reputation point for you. Rejoice.

Oh and to SL above, someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but actually I believe statistically Al was a top 5 center. Crazy huh?

Looking at the schedule I think the Jazz could go 53/29 this coming season, I think they will become a lot better team on the road this season with the new additions to the team. I really don't like to give any predictions but I really feel this is a much improved team going into this season, IMO this is the deepest team that I have ever seen for the Jazz I truly believe this and think they could turnout to be one of the best team the Jazz has ever put on the court. I just don't recall any other team that has had the all around talent that this team has at all of the position's from PG to C they are filled with very capable players who can get it done on any given night.