Even Better Trad

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=au96osz
Jazz send the GSW pick to Kings and an unprotected 2014 pick to Toronto.

Celtics go for it all with DMC, Garnett, Pierce, Jet, & Calderon.
Toronto get something for a player they don't want.
Sacramento gets rid of their hot head, dumps salary, gets good assets in return, draft picks.
Jazz go for championship with Jefferson, Favors, Carroll, Foye, Rondo. Awesome bench.

B. Liberation wrote:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=au96osz
Jazz send the GSW pick to Kings and an unprotected 2014 pick to Toronto.

Celtics go for it all with DMC, Garnett, Pierce, Jet, & Calderon.
Toronto get something for a player they don't want.
Sacramento gets rid of their hot head, dumps salary, gets good assets in return, draft picks.
Jazz go for championship with Jefferson, Favors, Carroll, Foye, Rondo. Awesome bench.

A lot of moving parts in this deal, but I can see where you're headed.

From Utah's perspective, it would be hard to pass up on any deal where the Jazz get the best player in the deal (Rondo), but I really dislike taking on Salmons at a low contract, let alone the 3 year 8mil he is currently owed. Also, a Rondo/Mo/Foye/Tinsley backcourt would be pretty undersized after giving up Hayward & Burks since I don't see Salmons or Carrol playing much SG. Jazz would also be in need of a couple more "filler players", whether it be through signings or whatever, which would kill their depth. But like I said, any deal where the Jazz get a great player like Rondo is, at the very least, intriguing.

Now if we were talking about getting Thorton instead of Salmons, that would be great, but I don't see why Sacramento would do that.

Seems like a lot to give up for basically just Rondo, as much as I would love to have Rondo.

Phoenix is apparently willing to deal and Gortat isn't happy, what about Jefferson, Burks, and the GS pick for Gortat and Dragic? The Suns get a quality big or cap flexibility (whichever they want), a quality young player and a draft pick and the Jazz get a starting quality Center and the PG of the future. I'm not sure the Suns would be willing to deal Dragic, but he'd be an awesome get if they would.

I see what you did there.

Interesting idea though brother...I'm willing to look at giving away this pick closer to the deadline when GSW's playoff standing is a little more predictable. I'm not interested much in the pick after about the 11th spot. 17-18 and I might as well trade it away.

I don't see where adding the two best players on a team that is 7-15 helps me much. Haven't seen Dragic enough to say either way but his box score makes him look Mo Williams Lite. Don't need a second Mo Williams and Gortat is a huge downgrade on Jefferson. Gortat was underrated in Orlando but has been exposed as a starter.

B. Liberation wrote:

I see what you did there.

Interesting idea though brother...I'm willing to look at giving away this pick closer to the deadline when GSW's playoff standing is a little more predictable. I'm not interested much in the pick after about the 11th spot. 17-18 and I might as well trade it away.

I don't see where adding the two best players on a team that is 7-15 helps me much. Haven't seen Dragic enough to say either way but his box score makes him look Mo Williams Lite. Don't need a second Mo Williams and Gortat is a huge downgrade on Jefferson. Gortat was underrated in Orlando but has been exposed as a starter.

The most attractive thing about Dragic is his age and his contract. He may not be a huge improvement over Mo but that's just because Mo has been pretty dang good so far, plus he's only 26 and is on contract for a super reasonable $7.5 Million for the next 4 years, vs Mo who's now on the wrong side of 30, will be a free agent, and has a long injury history. In terms of this year suddnely the Backup PG spot, which at times has been a weakness, becomes a big strength.

The thing about Gortat is that even though he's not an all star, and Phoenix may have been expecting more of him, at 7.5 Mil a year for this year and next he's actually underpaid for what he does, his two year deal is low risk and would lessen the impact if the Jazz also lose Millsap in free agency. Right now the Jazz could start Favors at C and bring Gortat off the bench, and he would be a massive immediate upgrade on the defensive end where the Jazz really need to improve to get to the next level.

It was just an idea though, and to tell the truth I wouldn't do it unless the Jazz really flounder in the next month or two. I like this team right now.

TheMagnus wrote:

B. Liberation wrote:

I don't see where adding the two best players on a team that is 7-15 helps me much. Haven't seen Dragic enough to say either way but his box score makes him look Mo Williams Lite. Don't need a second Mo Williams and Gortat is a huge downgrade on Jefferson. Gortat was underrated in Orlando but has been exposed as a starter.

The thing about Gortat is that even though he's not an all star, and Phoenix may have been expecting more of him, at 7.5 Mil a year for this year and next he's actually underpaid for what he does, his two year deal is low risk and would lessen the impact if the Jazz also lose Millsap in free agency. Right now the Jazz could start Favors at C and bring Gortat off the bench, and he would be a massive immediate upgrade on the defensive end where the Jazz really need to improve to get to the next level.

It was just an idea though, and to tell the truth I wouldn't do it unless the Jazz really flounder in the next month or two. I like this team right now.

Thats the thing right there for me. This team is competing with and beating good teams. Fav going out was a hitch in it all, but I dont think you give up on this team yet. With tradeable great players, draft picks etc, Jazz dont need to seek something else out now.
Then again, if getting Rondo is available, and its for Al or Paul and a draft pick or whatever, I think thats the one thing you do. He's a franchise/ all star PG.

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

B. Liberation wrote:

I don't see where adding the two best players on a team that is 7-15 helps me much. Haven't seen Dragic enough to say either way but his box score makes him look Mo Williams Lite. Don't need a second Mo Williams and Gortat is a huge downgrade on Jefferson. Gortat was underrated in Orlando but has been exposed as a starter.

The thing about Gortat is that even though he's not an all star, and Phoenix may have been expecting more of him, at 7.5 Mil a year for this year and next he's actually underpaid for what he does, his two year deal is low risk and would lessen the impact if the Jazz also lose Millsap in free agency. Right now the Jazz could start Favors at C and bring Gortat off the bench, and he would be a massive immediate upgrade on the defensive end where the Jazz really need to improve to get to the next level.

It was just an idea though, and to tell the truth I wouldn't do it unless the Jazz really flounder in the next month or two. I like this team right now.

Thats the thing right there for me. This team is competing with and beating good teams. Fav going out was a hitch in it all, but I dont think you give up on this team yet. With tradeable great players, draft picks etc, Jazz dont need to seek something else out now.
Then again, if getting Rondo is available, and its for Al or Paul and a draft pick or whatever, I think thats the one thing you do. He's a franchise/ all star PG.

I dunno. The Jazz haven't beaten any playoff bound team yet this season - throw out the Lakers, (who are good in name only) and who have the Jazz beat? Let us re-evaluate once the Jazz play a schedule with a few more visits with playoff bound teams.

MTJazz wrote:

I dunno. The Jazz haven't beaten any playoff bound team yet this season - throw out the Lakers, (who are good in name only) and who have the Jazz beat? Let us re-evaluate once the Jazz play a schedule with a few more visits with playoff bound teams.

True story, the Jazz are 2-7 against teams .500 or better, and the two wins were Dallas and Denver at home.

Fortunately we don't have to wait long for that schedule you were talking about, starting with the spurs game tonight 9 of the next 11 games are against probable playoff teams, including San Antonio, Miami, Brooklyn, and the LA Clippers (twice).

TheMagnus wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

I dunno. The Jazz haven't beaten any playoff bound team yet this season - throw out the Lakers, (who are good in name only) and who have the Jazz beat? Let us re-evaluate once the Jazz play a schedule with a few more visits with playoff bound teams.

True story, the Jazz are 2-7 against teams .500 or better, and the two wins were Dallas and Denver at home.

Fortunately we don't have to wait long for that schedule you were talking about, starting with the spurs game tonight 9 of the next 11 games are against probable playoff teams, including San Antonio, Miami, Brooklyn, and the LA Clippers (twice).

And, at the end of that run the Jazz will either look lottery bound or surprisingly competitive. Because I am such a homer I believe I see a team that can compete with the mid-echelon playoff teams - but honestly, they really haven't shown they can put it together on a nightly basis, they are all over the place. They have talent comparable to Memphis (with the Jazz slightly deeper bench IMO), but look at the records and how Memphis doesn't suffer so many off nights, gets it done on the road. Any thoughts?

MTJazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

I dunno. The Jazz haven't beaten any playoff bound team yet this season - throw out the Lakers, (who are good in name only) and who have the Jazz beat? Let us re-evaluate once the Jazz play a schedule with a few more visits with playoff bound teams.

True story, the Jazz are 2-7 against teams .500 or better, and the two wins were Dallas and Denver at home.

Fortunately we don't have to wait long for that schedule you were talking about, starting with the spurs game tonight 9 of the next 11 games are against probable playoff teams, including San Antonio, Miami, Brooklyn, and the LA Clippers (twice).

And, at the end of that run the Jazz will either look lottery bound or surprisingly competitive. Because I am such a homer I believe I see a team that can compete with the mid-echelon playoff teams - but honestly, they really haven't shown they can put it together on a nightly basis, they are all over the place. They have talent comparable to Memphis (with the Jazz slightly deeper bench IMO), but look at the records and how Memphis doesn't suffer so many off nights, gets it done on the road. Any thoughts?

Two things make the difference there I think, Memphis core has been together for over 3 years now, that makes for consistency; and Defense, Memphis is consistently one of the best defending teams in the NBA, and Defense is much less variable from night to night when compared to offense, especially on the road.

Championship team if I can get a point guard with a little swag. I need gritty Rondo on my team.

B. Liberation wrote:

Championship team if I can get a point guard with a little swag. I need gritty Rondo on my team.

Blibe, I am 2 and 84 on things I agree with you on. But those two things, getting Rondo and your sweet picture, I definitely do.

Mutangclan wrote:

Blibe, I am 2 and 84 on things I agree with you on. But those two things, getting Rondo and your sweet picture, I definitely do.

You just need some more time on the miniature golf course boyeee.....clear the mind....just you a ball and a cup.....it's so peaceful and relaxing and removes you from the chaos that is this world.....your mind becomes crystal clear....."make the put, change the world" that's my slogan.

That's one of my secrets. Get Rondo.

B. Liberation wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Blibe, I am 2 and 84 on things I agree with you on. But those two things, getting Rondo and your sweet picture, I definitely do.

You just need some more time on the miniature golf course boyeee.....clear the mind....just you a ball and a cup.....it's so peaceful and relaxing and removes you from the chaos that is this world.....your mind becomes crystal clear....."make the put, change the world" that's my slogan.

That's one of my secrets. Get Rondo.

It'd be a much better slogan if you use "make the putt, change the world", but thats just me.

Anyway, even going after Rondo, I dont think you do it until right around the trade deadline. I want to see how this group goes, for a bit longer. It takes awhile, longer than it's already been, for guys to figure out their roles, spots on the floor, how to play with a teammate etc.
There's no reason to think that this current squad wont continue to get better.

Check out this Blockbuster trade I just put together...


Kings get:

Al Jefferson
Raja Bells Expiring Contract
Earl Watson
Randy Foye

Jazz get:

Jason Thompson
Tyreke Evans
Jimmer Fredette
John Salmons

The Kings have a terribly built team and are on the verge of selling the franchise. This deal would give them a starting quality Center and the mentor they desperately need for DeMarcus "I'm crazier than Ron Artest" Cousins in Jefferson, relieve the log jam at backup PG, relieve them of their worst contract (Salmons), drop 15 Million in guranteed salaries off next years books making the team more attractive to buyers, and give them something tangible for Evans who they may just end up letting go anyways.

The Jazz would get a pile of young talent on reasonable contracts, including a very serviceable big to fill out the frontcourt in Thompson, a lights out shooting PG in Fredette, and a dynamic combo guard/wing in Evans. Salmons is a negative here but he'd need to be in the deal to make the salaries work out and sweeten the deal for the Kings. His contract only has 1 more year guaranteed making him low risk for the Jazz who will have plenty of room to absorb the hit next season.

So since I'm already playing GM let's follow this through....

I'd move Demarre and Favors into the starting lineup, bump Tinsley to the bench, and play Jimmer, Evans, and Thompson with the second unit. If a seperate deal for Millsap didn't present itself, I'd go into the offseason confident that if didn't get a good price for Millsap I could let him go and be ok with Favors, Kanter and Thompson. I'd consider re-signing Mo as the long term answer at PG, but my primary target (using Mo and/or Millsap and/or Burks, or possibly through the draft) would be a young starting quality PG, and I would also let Jimmer and Tyreke take their shots at filling the spot.

B. Liberation wrote:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=au96osz
Jazz send the GSW pick to Kings and an unprotected 2014 pick to Toronto.

Celtics go for it all with DMC, Garnett, Pierce, Jet, & Calderon.
Toronto get something for a player they don't want.
Sacramento gets rid of their hot head, dumps salary, gets good assets in return, draft picks.
Jazz go for championship with Jefferson, Favors, Carroll, Foye, Rondo. Awesome bench.

Also, since crazy multi team trades like that almost never happen, the Jazz have the pieces to make a godfather offer to Rondo all by themselves.

I mean, if we are going to give up all of those draft picks and players for basically just Rondo, adn we really really want Rondo, why not pair it down a little and just make them the offer straight up?

Something like this...

The Celtics get:

Mo Williams
Enes Kanter
Paul Millsap
GS Pick
Jazz #1 in 2014

The Jazz get:

Rojon Rondo
Jeff Green

Maybe throw in a couple lower level players on each side to bring the Celts below the luxury tax line without putting the Jazz over it and boom, you can't tell me Danny Ainge doesn't consider that deal.

In the "not that big a deal" section, I'd like to see Utah finally get rid of Raja for Omri Casspi. He's a good rebounding/3pt shooting SG/SF, fine player to have on the bench to back up Gordo and Marv. Maybe Cleveland would like to get a "defensive specialist" in Raja along with his vet experience for the team and young Dion Waiters.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/225452/Casspi_Requests_Trade_From_Cavaliers

Mutangclan wrote:

In the "not that big a deal" section, I'd like to see Utah finally get rid of Raja for Omri Casspi. He's a good rebounding/3pt shooting SG/SF, fine player to have on the bench to back up Gordo and Marv. Maybe Cleveland would like to get a "defensive specialist" in Raja along with his vet experience for the team and young Dion Waiters.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/225452/Casspi_Requests_Trade_From_Cavaliers

I don't want any long term salary back. The QO doesn't transfer, right? Wouldn't the Jazz have to make their own QO or lose the right to match?

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/225797/Sources_Raptors_Would_Prefer_To_Trade_Lowry_Over_Calderon

Great. We'll take Lowry. He was traded for Gary Forbes and a future first. Gotta be a way to trade Marv and our 1st round pick from GS for him.

TheMagnus wrote:

B. Liberation wrote:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=au96osz
Jazz send the GSW pick to Kings and an unprotected 2014 pick to Toronto.

Celtics go for it all with DMC, Garnett, Pierce, Jet, & Calderon.
Toronto get something for a player they don't want.
Sacramento gets rid of their hot head, dumps salary, gets good assets in return, draft picks.
Jazz go for championship with Jefferson, Favors, Carroll, Foye, Rondo. Awesome bench.

Also, since crazy multi team trades like that almost never happen, the Jazz have the pieces to make a godfather offer to Rondo all by themselves.

I mean, if we are going to give up all of those draft picks and players for basically just Rondo, adn we really really want Rondo, why not pair it down a little and just make them the offer straight up?

Something like this...

The Celtics get:

Mo Williams
Enes Kanter
Paul Millsap
GS Pick
Jazz #1 in 2014

The Jazz get:

Rojon Rondo
Jeff Green

Maybe throw in a couple lower level players on each side to bring the Celts below the luxury tax line without putting the Jazz over it and boom, you can't tell me Danny Ainge doesn't consider that deal.

To much and not sold on green. jazz get Rojon Cs get paul two first rounds and a second

I think Celts are done and ready to make a deal not sure jazz would give em what they want. sure one of the young bigs would be on there list.

Mutangclan wrote:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/225797/Sources_Raptors_Would_Prefer_To_Trade_Lowry_Over_Calderon

Great. We'll take Lowry. He was traded for Gary Forbes and a future first. Gotta be a way to trade Marv and our 1st round pick from GS for him.

The jazz have the pieces to get Lowry, they just have to want him.

TheMagnus wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/225797/Sources_Raptors_Would_Prefer_To_Trade_Lowry_Over_Calderon

Great. We'll take Lowry. He was traded for Gary Forbes and a future first. Gotta be a way to trade Marv and our 1st round pick from GS for him.

The jazz have the pieces to get Lowry, they just have to want him.

Right. You try the local route to get a hold of Lindsey/KOC, and I'll try the national. They need to know how we feel.

Rondo out till allstar break next year.WOW ACL. He's out and Rose should be back anytime. No trade for Rondo.

Also, for you guys who are big on Bledsoe, is this really who think should be brought over??

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4749/gamelog;_ylt=AvI1gEtIhf8D2nopzCjXdKGkvLYF

Not very impressive, and he's playing with a great team too. Should be balling but....

Mutangclan wrote:

Also, for you guys who are big on Bledsoe, is this really who think should be brought over??

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4749/gamelog;_ylt=AvI1gEtIhf8D2nopzCjXdKGkvLYF

Not very impressive, and he's playing with a great team too. Should be balling but....

I was thinking the same thing. If he was living up to the hype the Clips wouldn't be z struggling this bad with Paul out.
Also, do you really want a pg that rebounds better than he passes?