Does Coach Ty see the writing on the wall????

I'm starting to wonder: Whats the hold up Ty??? Are you just so certain that we'll sweep the games in Utah? Is it a crutch for the vets? Why not play the guys that need to be played??? WHAT IS IT?????

RELEASE THE BEAST!!!!!!

Favors is ready. He can help this team in huge ways. Yesterday he was a part of cutting into the deficit, and then once he was yanked out way too soon, they went on a 20-0 run. Granted there were four 3's, but still if the paint was being defended a bit better, then maybe our wings could have defended those 3's better. I dont know.....his minutes came way too late.

But I do know its' time to release the beast. Favors can do it. Also, get DC in there. When vets aren't getting it done, you put in your dirty work hustle guys. Its just the way it works. Its also contagious, if one guy gets back to his man in time to defend, then the other guys can and do it.

This team is young, youngest in the playoffs for sure. Let them go, play the guys that can bring a different look. It will get more buckets, get more stops and will help the vets too.
First step, 3-headed monsters get starter minutes together. All of them.
Second step, DC starts. We need energy and guts. Can still win the games at home.

No, he doesn't.

outerspacefan wrote:

No, he doesn't.

Not quite fair to dump on Corbin, he wasn't the one putting up bricks all night. Always fair to argue about rotations, substitutions and in-game management but it really was the players who stunk last night. As I have said many times before, it is a "road thing" with the Jazz. Its completely mental and apparently contagious. It's also called choking. On nights like that you need at least 2 players, veterans usually, who can get it going on by hitting the majority of their shots. To expect the young guys to do that is not realistic. I'm hugely dissappointed with Harris after teasing us with above average ball in April only to revert to pathetic on the big stage and under the bright lights. Prior to this series I thought the Jazz were actually fine at the PG but I now think Harris just doesn't have the killer mojo that makes him a force night in and night out. Unfortunately this display of playoff ball is not going to make him very attractive in a trade scenario.

Sigh. Playing for pride at this point.

Not jumping on coach; just stating the obvious

I give Corbin a good grade for his first season... in spite of the fact that had him not messed things up when he got some success on the floor (go back Watson over JT for instance...) the Jazz probably would have had a chance to get the 7th spot... in spite of not giving Favors and Burks the time they needed to be ready for postseason... in spite of failing for so much time to realize Tinsley is far better than Watson... in spite of not giving Evans even a slight chance to play serious basketball... in spite of.... ok, ok, time to stop it... GO COACH! GO JAZZ!

outerspacefan wrote:

Not jumping on coach; just stating the obvious

I give Corbin a good grade for his first season... in spite of the fact that had him not messed things up when he got some success on the floor (go back Watson over JT for instance...) the Jazz probably would have had a chance to get the 7th spot... in spite of not giving Favors and Burks the time they needed to be ready for postseason... in spite of failing for so much time to realize Tinsley is far better than Watson... in spite of not giving Evans even a slight chance to play serious basketball... in spite of.... ok, ok, time to stop it... GO COACH! GO JAZZ!

I hear your pain and I agree with that assessment. You'd think that Corbin will roll the dice and play at least Favors and Burks more minutes in the next couple games for the development opportunity alone, looking to the future. However, I am also prepared for him to stick to the script a la his mentor Sloan. Neither guy has proven very creative with respect to changing up rotations when there weren't injuries to starters involved when it was then forced on them. But seriously, your second unit is not going to beat the Spurs in a close game, the veteran starters are getting their collected asses handed to them. I gotta admit, San Antonio's complete dismantling of the Jazz and their confidence is impressive - in my book they are serious contenders with some prowess I had no idea they were packing.

Jerry had the third pick in a starting roll part way into his first season, D will. I think Favors was ready about a month ago. Release the beast

MTJazz wrote:

outerspacefan wrote:

No, he doesn't.

Not quite fair to dump on Corbin, he wasn't the one putting up bricks all night. Always fair to argue about rotations, substitutions and in-game management but it really was the players who stunk last night. As I have said many times before, it is a "road thing" with the Jazz. Its completely mental and apparently contagious. It's also called choking. On nights like that you need at least 2 players, veterans usually, who can get it going on by hitting the majority of their shots. To expect the young guys to do that is not realistic. I'm hugely dissappointed with Harris after teasing us with above average ball in April only to revert to pathetic on the big stage and under the bright lights. Prior to this series I thought the Jazz were actually fine at the PG but I now think Harris just doesn't have the killer mojo that makes him a force night in and night out. Unfortunately this display of playoff ball is not going to make him very attractive in a trade scenario.

Sigh. Playing for pride at this point.

But as I said, offense will come if the engines start going, guys start hustling. I'm telling you IT'S CONTAGIOUS! Sure the bricks were a problem. But if you get guys in there hustling, playing tenacious defense, getting turnovers and transitions layups, then the other rhythm shots start falling too.
It may be a "road thing", but I agree with you on needing two guys to get it going. Favors is that guy, and maybe DC. Its not necessarily a vet, and I totally disagree expecting the young guys to get it going is unrealistic; sometimes its best. They are full of energy and get out and run, rebound, etc. When both Derrick and DC are in there, guys are moving, hustling, "getting after it" and running. Thats what we are missing, and sorely need.
The Spurs are a machine, thats the biggest problem. They did to the entire league, whats happening to Utah now. But we need to at least let our horses out and run and try.....

We got beaten soundly by an outstanding veteran team on their home court by 30+ points and some folks are calling out the coach, wondering if he sees the writing on the wall. Really?

This series is about learning. Nobody with any basketball savvy gave the Jazz more than a 1% chance of getting to the second round. Why?

1. The Spurs are the least vulnerable team when discussing an upset this year, because they had it happen to them last year causing them to be more focused and significantly less prone to overlook anyone.

2. They have the best Coach in basketball and three hall of fame veterans who have been playing together for a long, long time. There is nothing Coach Corbin is going to throw at them they haven't seen and beaten in the past.

3. In addition to more experience, they are also the more talented team. They are doing exactly what the writing on the wall says they are supposed to do, play great and win at home.

My hope is the Jazz's youngsters and veterans alike who are currently getting a first hand education in what it takes to be a Championship calibur team, have the professionism to apply what they're learning to make them better.

I have no doubt about the emphasis Coach Corbin and his Staff have placed on defense, yet all too often our discussions are about the deficiencies of some of the Jazz players in this regard. Playing against a team like the Spurs will hopefully help players like Big Al, Hayward, Burks and others finally grasp the importance of what the Coaches have been preaching all season long.

Only after they learn these lessons, will we see how committed the Jazz players are. If they truely want to succeed, they'll come back better next year, after working diligently in the off-season. This in turn will give Coach Corbin and his Staff much more to work with. Only then, will we be able to really assess his coaching abilities fairly.

ptaz66 wrote:

We got beaten soundly by an outstanding veteran team on their home court by 30+ points and some folks are calling out the coach, wondering if he sees the writing on the wall. Really?

To the rest of your post, and I mean this in the most pleasant way possible, no shit. Spurs are far and away a much better team. I've said the same things.They're a better team. To your post in quotes: you dont think Favors needs to be added into this game??? Just ride these vets until mercifully the 4 games are over??? Just sit and watch and dont make some changes in hopes of a victory or two??? How far exactly to you believe sitting on the bench goes, for our young guys, to get the ever-so-important playoff experience?? Do you really think Favors is soaking in and getting that much better by sitting? I say no. Not so much. We need rebounding, athleticism and shotblocking. Well, thats Favors. Get him in the damn game already.

So yes, really. Does Ty see the writing on the wall, thats its best, and most likely helps most toward a victory, to play our younger guys in Favors/DC/Burks? I hope so.

I'm looking at this as the Titanic....ships going down. Do those musicians just stay and play their cello, violin, and flutes and sink with the ship, or try something drastic and jump in feet first and give yourself a chance?
Effing jump already Ty; we aren't winning any championships this year anyway.

Mutangclan wrote:

So yes, really. Does Ty see the writing on the wall, thats its best, and most likely helps most toward a victory, to play our younger guys in Favors/DC/Burks? I hope so.

I think Favors, two years from now, may be what you think he is now. Unfortunately, at present he's the third best big we have when it comes to giving us a chance to win. Playing Jefferson and Milsap currently gives us the best chance to win. Which means you have to choose who to run with them. I like both the line-ups with DC or Favors playing with Jefferson and Milsap. I don't think Howard is the answer.

All of that being said, I really don't think Favors with or without a superman cape was going to salvage Game 2, even with DC and Burks as sidekicks. The Spurs had everything working, inside and out. When a team is shooting the three as well as they were, and playing solid defense, the only realistic way to compete is to match them 3 pointer for 3 pointer. Favors is not going to get this done, nor is Burks or DC unless they both had season or possibly career best shooting nights.

Calling the Coach out after a close game, your points would certainly have validity. Unfortunately, after a 30+ point blowout there are simply no good explanations for what went awry, including laying the blame at the Coach's feet.

Playoff experience is valueable to the veterans and younger players alike, leaving the Coach to decide how much time each player gets, based on the prospect of winning the game at hand and building towards the future as well. I don't think there's a perfect answer, but I don't think Coach Corbin's done too bad a job thus far in the series, nor do I think is he unaware of the situation he faces.

As fans we have the benefit of being able to have our discussion after the fact. The Coach has to make his decisions during the time in question. Between games in where Coach Corbin needs to make changes in strategy, playing time, line-up and schemes. Obviously, the changes he attempted between games 1 and 2 were not very effective. I'm simply advocating we see what game 3 brings in regards to some of these isuess before condemning him too much.

ptaz66 wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

So yes, really. Does Ty see the writing on the wall, thats its best, and most likely helps most toward a victory, to play our younger guys in Favors/DC/Burks? I hope so.

I think Favors, two years from now, may be what you think he is now. Unfortunately, at present he's the third best big we have when it comes to giving us a chance to win.

I think that's debatable. He does things that make the opposing teams have to change the way they play. If this is all about learning as you said in a previous post. How are the young guys gonna learn sitting on the bench watching?

Romoholic wrote:

ptaz66 wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

So yes, really. Does Ty see the writing on the wall, thats its best, and most likely helps most toward a victory, to play our younger guys in Favors/DC/Burks? I hope so.

I think Favors, two years from now, may be what you think he is now. Unfortunately, at present he's the third best big we have when it comes to giving us a chance to win.

I think that's debatable. He does things that make the opposing teams have to change the way they play. If this is all about learning as you said in a previous post. How are the young guys gonna learn sitting on the bench watching?

Definitely debatable. So far in the playoffs Favors has been the most effective of the 3, and all you have to do is watch Jefferson getting abused on those pick and rolls to start having a debate about his usefulness on the defensive end.

TheMagnus wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

ptaz66 wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

So yes, really. Does Ty see the writing on the wall, thats its best, and most likely helps most toward a victory, to play our younger guys in Favors/DC/Burks? I hope so.

I think Favors, two years from now, may be what you think he is now. Unfortunately, at present he's the third best big we have when it comes to giving us a chance to win.

I think that's debatable. He does things that make the opposing teams have to change the way they play. If this is all about learning as you said in a previous post. How are the young guys gonna learn sitting on the bench watching?

Definitely debatable. So far in the playoffs Favors has been the most effective of the 3, and all you have to do is watch Jefferson getting abused on those pick and rolls to start having a debate about his usefulness on the defensive end.

Al hasn't even been himself on the offensive end. No offense and no defense. That's a bad combo!

I think at home you are going to see the young guns play quite a bit more.

ptaz66 wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

So yes, really. Does Ty see the writing on the wall, thats its best, and most likely helps most toward a victory, to play our younger guys in Favors/DC/Burks? I hope so.

I think Favors, two years from now, may be what you think he is now. Unfortunately, at present he's the third best big we have when it comes to giving us a chance to win. Playing Jefferson and Milsap currently gives us the best chance to win. Which means you have to choose who to run with them. I like both the line-ups with DC or Favors playing with Jefferson and Milsap. I don't think Howard is the answer.

I agree with alot of your post, but do not agree that Favors is our third best big necessarily. (And btw, 2 years from now?????!! No way man, next year he'll be a guy coaches gameplan around) He's the best shotblocker of course. He's the most athletic. This team needs what Favors brings, and actually DC brings too. But we dont necessarily need to choose who to play out of the 3, we can play the 3 together, and thats what I"m saying. Start with DC in there, then bring in Favors. I personally dont think there needs to be anyone off the bench other than Favors, Burks, Tinsely and spot minutes for our young rookie Kanter. Basically a 8 man rotation.

And it was a blowout, but remember when Favors came in the game, they cut the lead, and then Ty took Favors back out??? 20-0 run. Boom. Spurs are waaaaaaaaay to good to give a lead to. You can't. You need to keep up with them to give yourself a chance. Favors makes an impact, he just does. Let him play the whole game if need be, he's young, he's got six fouls......( http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/54050636-87/jazz-favors-game-spurs.html.csp #1 )

And I guess my bottom line, is that Ty went away from what was working. And I think thats ridiculous.

Mutangclan wrote:

ptaz66 wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

So yes, really. Does Ty see the writing on the wall, thats its best, and most likely helps most toward a victory, to play our younger guys in Favors/DC/Burks? I hope so.

I think Favors, two years from now, may be what you think he is now. Unfortunately, at present he's the third best big we have when it comes to giving us a chance to win. Playing Jefferson and Milsap currently gives us the best chance to win. Which means you have to choose who to run with them. I like both the line-ups with DC or Favors playing with Jefferson and Milsap. I don't think Howard is the answer.

I agree with alot of your post, but do not agree that Favors is our third best big necessarily. (And btw, 2 years from now?????!! No way man, next year he'll be a guy coaches gameplan around) He's the best shotblocker of course. He's the most athletic. This team needs what Favors brings, and actually DC brings too. But we dont necessarily need to choose who to play out of the 3, we can play the 3 together, and thats what I"m saying. Start with DC in there, then bring in Favors. I personally dont think there needs to be anyone off the bench other than Favors, Burks, Tinsely and spot minutes for our young rookie Kanter. Basically a 8 man rotation.

And it was a blowout, but remember when Favors came in the game, they cut the lead, and then Ty took Favors back out??? 20-0 run. Boom. Spurs are waaaaaaaaay to good to give a lead to. You can't. You need to keep up with them to give yourself a chance. Favors makes an impact, he just does. Let him play the whole game if need be, he's young, he's got six fouls......( http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/54050636-87/jazz-favors-game-spurs.html.csp #1 )

And I guess my bottom line, is that Ty went away from what was working. And I think thats ridiculous.

I like your optimistic take on Favors and your 8/9 man rotation. The question now is whether this lineup holds up for next year. Many folks seem to want to trade Jefferson, based on his sub-par performance in this series.

I've got mixed feelings. I like the line-up with Big Al, Favors, and Milsap in together. Likewise, I like DC, Kanter, and Burks. In my mind we need to upgrade the point guard position simply because Harris is a score first point guard who got completely outplayed both in scoring and assisting.

I get your bottom line, I guess I took issue because this team and Coach Corbin, notwithstanding being swept by the Spurs, over-achieved based on what many experts thought they were capable of. So, in my mind they deserve a ton of credit, though perhaps, it being sprinkled with a little criticism is not all bad.

I like Big Al a lot. Good player, good guy to have around. That said, there's some true to the fact that he tend to halt the offense. Jazz need to invest in backcourt/wing playmakers and shotmakers, and Big Al and Harris are superb trade assets.

outerspacefan wrote:

I like Big Al a lot. Good player, good guy to have around. That said, there's some true to the fact that he tend to halt the offense. Jazz need to invest in backcourt/wing playmakers and shotmakers, and Big Al and Harris are superb trade assets.

I don't really think Harris is a great trade asset. He did nothing to help his stock since he has been with the Jazz. One could excuse his play when he was in NJ, but once he got here with the talent the Jazz have he should have flourished and didn't.

Having said that I think someone would like to have him as a back up pg. He just isn't a starter for a contending team and maybe not for any team.

Romoholic wrote:

outerspacefan wrote:

I like Big Al a lot. Good player, good guy to have around. That said, there's some true to the fact that he tend to halt the offense. Jazz need to invest in backcourt/wing playmakers and shotmakers, and Big Al and Harris are superb trade assets.

I don't really think Harris is a great trade asset. He did nothing to help his stock since he has been with the Jazz. One could excuse his play when he was in NJ, but once he got here with the talent the Jazz have he should have flourished and didn't.

Having said that I think someone would like to have him as a back up pg. He just isn't a starter for a contending team and maybe not for any team.

He will NOT like being a backup PG.
However, if the Jazz can find someone interested in making him a backup PG (which he would be a good one), then it is no longer our problem. He can be mad at the new team.

I'm sure he won't like being a backup! There comes a time when you have to just admit who you are. He just doesn't facilitate the offense the way a starting pg needs to. He would be an excellent change of pace guy though. Come in and push the ball. Give he team a spark. He would probably fair better going up against the other teams backup anyway.

I miss Stockton!

I often wonder if a 50 year old Stockton could still give a team a spark for 10-12 minutes a game. I like to think he could.

I would absolutely LOVE to have Harris as a backup PG on this team. However, that isn't gonna happen.

I wonder if Al & Devin have been too exposed during this series (and the season) and how much it has hurt their trade value.

The Voice of Reason wrote:

I often wonder if a 50 year old Stockton could still give a team a spark for 10-12 minutes a game. I like to think he could.

I would absolutely LOVE to have Harris as a backup PG on this team. However, that isn't gonna happen.

I wonder if Al & Devin have been too exposed during this series (and the season) and how much it has hurt their trade value.

Harris could very well have lost value with the way he has played this season but I still think there are team's that would want him even with his bad play I think he did enough to help this team sneak into the playoffs that will keep team's interested in him. If Harris was willing to take a back up position on this team then the Jazz would have to take a long look at keeping him around but I don't think he is ready for that just yet he still think's he is a starting PG in this league he is a good player but I think on the down side of his career.

Jefferson has a lot of value he has put this team on him back on the offensive end and carried them for most of the regular season every team would love to ad a guy with that capability no question about it, that's the same way it was with Boozer a guy that can put the ball in the basket is always going to be in demand in this league. I like Jefferson but it was really disheartening to me and it turned me off on him after watching him shy away from playing D like he did in game 4 to me there just is no excess for it.

There is no question that Favors needs to be a starter next season and more than likely it will be the C spot that he will be playing that leave's me to ask if Jefferson would be willing to take a back-up role with this team. If he is then again the Jazz would need to take a long look at keeping him around, that could turn out to be huge for the Jazz if he was willing to do that. Jefferson and Harris coming off of the bench would be very productive going against a team 2nd unit would make the Jazz hard to beat.

If the Jazz could get these two on board with being back-ups their only real weakness would be shooting and a PG with the ability to run a team in the half court, the PG could be found in this summer's free agent pool there is a lot that will be on the list giving the Jazz a good chance at nabbing one of them. It is going to be hard for the Jazz to find a SF that is a light's out shooter that can also play defense there just are not a lot of those kind of players around so finding one as a free agent is not going to be easy there are not many of them on this summer list either.

Now SG's they are like the PG spot there are a lot that will be free-agents and some of those guys play both SF/SG so the Jazz could go that way to find that wing they are in need of. We are going to have to wait to see what they do in July when the free agent market opens until then it is time to go out FISHING and that's what I am going to do starting this weekend can't wait spending time with the grandkids is my all time favorite thing to do then basketball. LOL

The Voice of Reason wrote:

...I wonder if Al & Devin have been too exposed during this series (and the season) and how much it has hurt their trade value.

Jazz brass made a choice when they stayed pat at midseason tradeline. They choose to ride them. Now's the time for KOC to find the answer to your interesting question...

You can always avoid being where you are by being somewhere else I guess... oh wait... may be not.... whatever...