Which of our expiring bigs do the Jazz sign this off season

I'm leaning towards Al, because I don't think they have anyone to replace his scoring with.

No option for both?

Really, I have no idea what the FO is planning on doing. A deadline trade would have given some clarity, but now... I don't have a clue. I go back and forth on what I want the team to do. One day I think "keep Sap", next day I think, "Al seems like the better choice", on occasion I even think, let 'em both go & let's do something totaly new.

I just don't know.

zero24gravity wrote:

No option for both?

Really, I have no idea what the FO is planning on doing. A deadline trade would have given some clarity, but now... I don't have a clue. I go back and forth on what I want the team to do. One day I think "keep Sap", next day I think, "Al seems like the better choice", on occasion I even think, let 'em both go & let's do something totaly new.

I just don't know.

I don't think there is any chance they keep both. That would pretty much insure that they don't re sign both Favors and Kanter.

Romoholic wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

No option for both?

Really, I have no idea what the FO is planning on doing. A deadline trade would have given some clarity, but now... I don't have a clue. I go back and forth on what I want the team to do. One day I think "keep Sap", next day I think, "Al seems like the better choice", on occasion I even think, let 'em both go & let's do something totaly new.

I just don't know.

I don't think there is any chance they keep both. That would pretty much insure that they don't re sign both Favors and Kanter.

I'm not suggesting anything here, but I suppose the team COULD sign them both, then unload one (or both) of them via a trade for an expiring deal sometime before the young bigs are ready to re-up.

Doesn't seem likely though.

I hope they re-sign Paul. Yes, Al scores more, and is a good low post threat...however, I believe that the offense will flourish and others will pick up the slack if he is out of the way. I think that other Jazz players are better when Paul is on the court, rather than Al.
So, in my opinion, it is addition by subtraction. Even though we lose his 17-20 points a night, the offense will flow more effectively without him and therefore others will produce.

I read something the other day (I will see if I can dig it up) that did a comparison of Jazz bigs and their stats and efficiency. It compared Millsap-Jefferson on the court vs. Millsap-Favors vs. Favors-Kanter vs. Kanter-Jefferson....you get it...all the combinations of our 4 bigs.
Al was woefully bad in all of the comparisons. It seemed like every combination was better without Al in it. It was pretty damning evidence.
I believe the best combination was Millsap-Favors.

I think Al will be the odd man out, and I am OK with this. He will get a decent payday somewhere. I just hope it isn't with Utah. And that pains me a little to say, because I really like Al. And he seems to want to be in Utah...however, I just don't think he makes the Jazz better overall.

The Voice of Reason wrote:

I hope they re-sign Paul. Yes, Al scores more, and is a good low post threat...however, I believe that the offense will flourish and others will pick up the slack if he is out of the way. I think that other Jazz players are better when Paul is on the court, rather than Al.
So, in my opinion, it is addition by subtraction. Even though we lose his 17-20 points a night, the offense will flow more effectively without him and therefore others will produce.

I read something the other day (I will see if I can dig it up) that did a comparison of Jazz bigs and their stats and efficiency. It compared Millsap-Jefferson on the court vs. Millsap-Favors vs. Favors-Kanter vs. Kanter-Jefferson....you get it...all the combinations of our 4 bigs.
Al was woefully bad in all of the comparisons. It seemed like every combination was better without Al in it. It was pretty damning evidence.
I believe the best combination was Millsap-Favors.

I think Al will be the odd man out, and I am OK with this. He will get a decent payday somewhere. I just hope it isn't with Utah. And that pains me a little to say, because I really like Al. And he seems to want to be in Utah...however, I just don't think he makes the Jazz better overall.

I agree with you. but their is such a premium on centers that are great scorers. I just have a feeling that the Jazz will go with Al, because his production can't be replaced. I think I would prefer to keep Paul though.

I agree that there is a premium on centers. But, I think they will hope that Favors and/or Kanter can hold down the fort until one of them emerges as an elite big man. Kind of a....center by committee deal.

I don't think there's any problem replacing Jefferson's scoring. When a team loses a 20ppg player, they do NOT go from scoring 100/game to 80/game.

Yeah, he's our one DEPENDABLE scorer and the one guy we can go to in the crunch, the guy they can't really stop without a double-team, but the Jazz are going to have different players on the team next year. They may not need the force-it-into-the-center type of one-man show Jefferson provides. Millsap, Kanter and Favors can all score, in different ways from Jefferson. IF we have players who could score from the SG/SF and PG positions, I don't think scoring will be the problem.

I'd like to see us re-sign Millsap. He's become such a multi-faceted contributor, he's a great part of the team. Just don't want him playing hero ball or HAVING to score in the half court.

This year I've changed my views on this. I hope they resign Paul. This team has been completely been remade to work together really well. IMO, it's actually to the point that I think Al is the one thing that is different than all the rest. Paul/Hayward/Burks/Mo all will work together really well, and Gordo/Burks/Paul/Mo are all scorers. Fav/Kanter/Foye are also bucket getters. And that group to top it off are mostly defenders too. We're good. Facilitators, defenders and finishers. With Al gone, there now are guys who do it at both ends AND can find their teammates to also make them successful.

Mutangclan wrote:

This year I've changed my views on this. I hope they resign Paul. This team has been completely been remade to work together really well. IMO, it's actually to the point that I think Al is the one thing that is different than all the rest. Paul/Hayward/Burks/Mo all will work together really well, and Gordo/Burks/Paul/Mo are all scorers. Fav/Kanter/Foye are also bucket getters. And that group to top it off are mostly defenders too. We're good. Facilitators, defenders and finishers. With Al gone, there now are guys who do it at both ends AND can find their teammates to also make them successful.

I'm back-and-forth with this as well. I've been on Al's side resigning him for the scoring and his size, but with the small scale emergence of Kanter and Favors the last few games with Al and Sap hurt- I'm for resigning Millsap- even if that "emergence" of Favors and Kanter was against bad teams- although the Bucks aren't too shabby this yr.

Anyway, if I HAD to pick one or the other, right now I'd go with Millsap. BUT, Here's the math folks:

According to hoopshype http://hoopshype.com/salaries/utah.htm the Jazz are at 25.6 Million next yr- which includes Marvins 7.5 million.
After the 2013/14 season the Jazz have to match an offer for Favors, otherwise he'll make 7.8 million here. Same with Hayward, after the 2013/14 season the Jazz will have to make a qualifying offer to keep him, if no offer, his last yr he'll make 4.6 here in 2014/15.
Kanter has two good yrs here then in 2015/16 he's up for a qualifying offer, otherwise he makes 7.8 here in 2015/16

So, this is the deal imo. Why not, as previously discussed, sign Millsap and Jefferson this off-season? Give Jefferson a slight bump from 15 to 16 million a yr for four yrs. Try to get Millsap at around 11 million (from 7.2 mill) for four yrs.... which adds up to: 25+16+11= 57 million for next yr... That team has Al, Sap, Fav, Hayward, Burks, Kanter, Evans, and Marvin as guaranteed (ps Murphy is a team option and is probably gone imo).........still with me?
Marvin will be gone after next yr when Favors and Hayward are up for qualifying offers.... so in theory the Jazz will only have 50 million toward the cap if they sign one yr deals to the rest of the players ( I know, I know, not likely but it can happen, see Foye and Mo as examples).
Anyway, Carrol is making about 900 k this yr. I say sign him for 2 million a yr for 3 yrs and he'd probably go for it (unless he gets offered more- then maybe it'll be slightly costlier to keep him).
So now the Jazz are at 59 million next yr adding Carrol and still needing a couple pg's. They are at 52 million when Marv is out of the mix after next yr. No problem!!!

**aliveandkicking adjusts the GM hat**

I say let's keep our best players for this coming yr, see who's producing before the trade deadline, and make adjustments when the time is right. I also think we could get Jarret Jack for 21 million over three yrs (7 million a yr). Jack is 30 yrs old and a proven scorer/assist man. He made 5.5 mill this yr. The Warriors won't be able to resign Jack folks with their current problems- unless they amnesty someone, and that still may not be enough to keep him.

This puts the Jazz at around 69 million with Jack for this yr --while adding Foye for another yr at around 3 mill. Now our current team for this coming season is:

Pg-- Jack, Burks, Draft pick
Sg-- Hayward, scrub (perhaps Foye for 3 mill)
SF Carrol, Marvin
PF- Sap, Kanter
C- Al, Fav

That's 11 players, Checkout this link for some salary cap info:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1542018-nba-teams-with-the-worst-salary-cap-problems-post-trade-deadline-edition

Basically it says the cap will be at 70.3 million next yr and goes into teams that are in cap trouble that have guaranteed contracts.
Again, when Marvins 7.5 Million is gone after this yr the Jazz will have that money to put towards Favors' 7.8 guaranteed to match a qualifying offer in 2014/15 or put the money towards Haywards 4.6 guaranteed to match an offer after this yr.
OR
Trade Jefferson or any one of our bigs before the trade deadline for another pg/sg that can contribute, if not make the Jazz contenders. I see the jazz with the above team easily making the playoffs- especially with Gordo, Kanter, Burks, and Favors getting better.
OR
If you believe in the current young bigs enough--- which the Jury is still out but looking better with Kanter and Favors--- you can resign just Millsap, save Jeffersons 16 million a yr, and roll the dice with getting a couple more front-court players that can contribute. The problem I see with this is losing assets!! Jefferson and/or Millsap are assets that we now are going to lose (at least one). They are players that are proven and will help get you to the playoffs. There's no guarantee the Jazz will sign an elite pg to go along with Favors and Kanter. IOW, keep assets until we can draft a great player or trade for a proven player that we need. I believe an NBA team needs a minimum of 13 to their roster so the Jazz can get some D-league hopefuls to round-out the above team.

It'll be interesting what the Jazz do.

Not to highjack the thread, but here's a compelling reason to go with our two young bigs



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epn_nb2v7A4

Then again, maybe Kanter and Carrol aren't that "special" and we'll just sign Favor flav





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNSxgJHVR3A

Another reason why Kanter isn't ready... no court awareness



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyBCtnujdgI

Favors baby, Splitter got punished from his dunk on Kanter. BTW, no one on the Jazz can do this. In fact, only a handful in the league can take the bump and finish like this



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QghdWM3L2UU

Jefferson points out how Sap had time to prepare and block this dunk but Sap's just too small (sigh)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J44d3WSvSbY

Favors shows what length and hops will do for you. Top block of the night btw. Damn!!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWK7WOJAQ5A

Jefferson isn't fazed. He just keeps singin his song.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uycwUCZUuKU

After the last two games i would not spent big bucks for either to play back up because thats where they should be. Ty have shown if we have one or both he thinks he needs to start them? Not what i want next year would rather play j evens at back up and draft a big and a back up to burks for point. If Al would play back up i think i would keep him if the price is right Bob. Trade Marv and a pick and move up a spot or two in draft would be nice. Not sure Marv wants to ever be a go to guy but he should at this point backing up DC for sure.

Ty has really not shown us he should be at the head of the jazz with bone head calls and subs. Like a guy to get a fare shot and if we keep seeing the same stuff the rest the year i think the jazz should move on with someone new.

Richardale wrote:

After the last two games i would not spent big bucks for either to play back up because thats where they should be. Ty have shown if we have one or both he thinks he needs to start them? Not what i want next year would rather play j evens at back up and draft a big and a back up to burks for point. If Al would play back up i think i would keep him if the price is right Bob. Trade Marv and a pick and move up a spot or two in draft would be nice. Not sure Marv wants to ever be a go to guy but he should at this point backing up DC for sure.

Ty has really not shown us he should be at the head of the jazz with bone head calls and subs. Like a guy to get a fare shot and if we keep seeing the same stuff the rest the year i think the jazz should move on with someone new.

I'm with you, my friend. Very sadly, because I love both guys, especially Sap, the Jazz need to allow both players to walk (or sign and trade). The Jazz have to allow both Favors and Underkanter to start and finish games next season. With Al or Sap on the roster, that will never happen, regardless of who is coaching.