The Future of the Jazz

Great Great read for every Jazz fan from Zack Lowe over at Grantland...

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9042169/al-jefferson-paul-millsap-tyrone-corbin-future-utah-jazz

I was going to post an excerpt but you've really got to read the whole thing. Just outstanding work, breaking down the Jazz rebuilding strategy, the Millsap/Jefferson debate, and the issues with Ty Corbin.

TheMagnus wrote:

Great Great read for every Jazz fan from Zack Lowe over at Grantland...

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9042169/al-jefferson-paul-millsap-tyrone-corbin-future-utah-jazz

I was going to post an excerpt but you've really got to read the whole thing. Just outstanding work, breaking down the Jazz rebuilding strategy, the Millsap/Jefferson debate, and the issues with Ty Corbin.

Yea, great article, thanks Mag. Covers all the same stuff we talk about, and certainly covers Quicksand Corbin....

Looks like what most of us hope will happen this summer, will happen too. From Al gone, to a good PG or not one at all, and possibly no more Corbin.

So what a shocker, my Fire Corbin thread isn't at all ridiculous, and says all the same stuff thats been so infuriating:

This is very strong evidence that Corbin is basically just playing the wrong guys and wrong combinations in the wrong minutes distribution. His better defenders and all-around guys — Favors, Kanter, DeMarre Carroll, Gordon Hayward, et al. — deserve a larger chunk of the time going

I was a bit surprised he didn't mention possible PG's in the draft, Burke and Carter-Williams are both really solid prospects and in the Jazz neighborhood pick wise, and with two picks they could also look to move up.

TheMagnus wrote:

I was a bit surprised he didn't mention possible PG's in the draft, Burke and Carter-Williams are both really solid prospects and in the Jazz neighborhood pick wise, and with two picks they could also look to move up.

Great article.

I too was surprised he didn't mention possible draft PG options.
The last time the jazz desperately needed a PG, they were pretty aggressive in moving up to make it happen and bring in D-Will. If they like one of those options enough, I can certainly see them trying to move up to secure one of them. If they have to package 2 picks o move up enough to get a PG that will be the answer, I'm ok with that.

Yes, good article.

Took a bunch of shots at Corbin (& Al), while giving a courtesy "but it's not all his fault" as the only defending of Ty.

"Multiple league sources who dealt with Utah ahead of the deadline insist the Jazz presented themselves as willing to take a step back next season and snag a solid pick in a loaded 2014 draft."

+

"Jefferson and Millsap are salary slots who also take a certain number of minutes. Letting one walk for "nothing" wouldn't really net Utah nothing; rather, it would open up both salary and minutes Utah could fill with Favors and Kanter, and down the line with another signing — this summer or next."

=

Leads me to believe that this team will live or die by the "Core 4" next year. If that happens, then I'm guessing the Jazz will be able to find out for real what they have & adjust accordingly. ....though I still question if Ty is the guy to lead the youth charge.

TheMagnus wrote:

Great Great read for every Jazz fan from Zack Lowe over at Grantland...

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9042169/al-jefferson-paul-millsap-tyrone-corbin-future-utah-jazz

I was going to post an excerpt but you've really got to read the whole thing. Just outstanding work, breaking down the Jazz rebuilding strategy, the Millsap/Jefferson debate, and the issues with Ty Corbin.

Thanks. Great read. There is another good read over there called "The Worst Contracts in the NBA". Marvin appears in the category 6 titled "The 30 Least Cap-Appealing Contracts". Glad to see Marvin is playing better off the bench though.

19. Marvin Williams: two years, $15.8 million
His sparkling 10.03 PER ranks him 285th in the league, just ahead of Kevin Seraphin, Joel Anthony and Kendrick Perkins. Hey, at least he's still 43 spots ahead of Jan Vesely. At some point before I die, I want to know why Kevin O'Connor flipped Devin Harris's expiring deal for two years of Marvin Williams. There has to be an answer that doesn't involve the words "nude photos" and "or else."

LOL.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9030601/the-worst-contracts-nba

Found the article right on, ( he must be stalking our board, hah!). Though sheer speculation, I thought it was interesting that he declares it "not axiomatic" that the Jazz stick with the young guns and either Favors or Kanters could be part of a blockbuster trade provided Sap is retained. Don't know how I feel about this because I am seriously high on Kanter and somewhat high on Favors. Not discussing PG was indeed the only article gap for those of us who obsess on such things. Who knows? Maybe they can talk Mo into a 3 year deal with 3rd year as team option if they go after a PG in the draft?

One other thing. As long as GH is going to be coming off the bench at the 2/3, the Jazz are clearly in need of upgrades in at the starter 2 and 3. Since GH is a lock to be re-signed, and Marvin ain't going anywhere next year, (and yet may prove valuable coming off the bench, allowing GH to start), I'm saying the Jazz biggest need in a return to relevance is a really damn good 2 and PG. I honestly think the Jazz figure Mo still has it - and he might, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Jazz "big moves" being:
Re-signing Sap for a raise
Re-signing Mo for less than he makes this year but still plenty
Drafting a rookie PG
Getting a very good 2 in FA
Getting a cheap veteran big.

Who knows how the math works on this, but suddenly the Jazz wouldn't have much to spend in '14 extending GH and Favs? Further, unless that new 2 was absolutely a great player AND the Kanter/GH/Burks kids continue their upward climb -- that roster still looks bottom half of the WC playoff contenders to me.

MTJazz wrote:

Found the article right on, ( he must be stalking our board, hah!). Though sheer speculation, I thought it was interesting that he declares it "not axiomatic" that the Jazz stick with the young guns and either Favors or Kanters could be part of a blockbuster trade provided Sap is retained. Don't know how I feel about this because I am seriously high on Kanter and somewhat high on Favors. Not discussing PG was indeed the only article gap for those of us who obsess on such things. Who knows? Maybe they can talk Mo into a 3 year deal with 3rd year as team option if they go after a PG in the draft?

One other thing. As long as GH is going to be coming off the bench at the 2/3, the Jazz are clearly in need of upgrades in at the starter 2 and 3. Since GH is a lock to be re-signed, and Marvin ain't going anywhere next year, (and yet may prove valuable coming off the bench, allowing GH to start), I'm saying the Jazz biggest need in a return to relevance is a really damn good 2 and PG. I honestly think the Jazz figure Mo still has it - and he might, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Jazz "big moves" being:
Re-signing Sap for a raise
Re-signing Mo for less than he makes this year but still plenty
Drafting a rookie PG
Getting a very good 2 in FA
Getting a cheap veteran big.

Who knows how the math works on this, but suddenly the Jazz wouldn't have much to spend in '14 extending GH and Favs? Further, unless that new 2 was absolutely a great player AND the Kanter/GH/Burks kids continue their upward climb -- that roster still looks bottom half of the WC playoff contenders to me.

Solid list of off-season activities. I think going after a "very good 2" sort of depends on whether or not you believe in Alec Burks doesn't it? I mean, if he keeps improving he's got the ability to be a starting 2, I'm still a bit skeptical, but not nearly as much as I was at the beginning of the season. If you assume we can't unload Marvin and we can somehow keep DC then you've got 4 solid wings (depending on which Marvin shows up), Throw in a solid rookie PG and the fact that Mo can play some 2 and it seems like it will be tough to do better than that in free agency without spending 8 figures.

As far as a cheap veteran big goes...I'm kind of partial to Kanter/Favors/Millsap/Evans with Marvin filling in a bit to round out the rotation. I know people are going to complain about being "undersized" and all of that, but Favors and Kanter are both really Centers (they really are) and the more I think about that group and watch it in this season the more I like it, and I think it would make the Jazz a hell of a lot more fun to watch than if they went out and signed some big stiff to take up space.

TheMagnus wrote:

As far as a cheap veteran big goes...I'm kind of partial to Kanter/Favors/Millsap/Evans with Marvin filling in a bit to round out the rotation. I know people are going to complain about being "undersized" and all of that, but Favors and Kanter are both really Centers (they really are) and the more I think about that group and watch it in this season the more I like it, and I think it would make the Jazz a hell of a lot more fun to watch than if they went out and signed some big stiff to take up space.

I also like that four man rotation, but still think there needs to be another big man for those nights when there is an injury or foul trouble. After all, if you lose Kanter or Favors from that list, they are very undersized. I'm not talking about a rotation player, just a big stiff that can be thrown in there when necessary.

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

As far as a cheap veteran big goes...I'm kind of partial to Kanter/Favors/Millsap/Evans with Marvin filling in a bit to round out the rotation. I know people are going to complain about being "undersized" and all of that, but Favors and Kanter are both really Centers (they really are) and the more I think about that group and watch it in this season the more I like it, and I think it would make the Jazz a hell of a lot more fun to watch than if they went out and signed some big stiff to take up space.

I also like that four man rotation, but still think there needs to be another big man for those nights when there is an injury or foul trouble. After all, if you lose Kanter or Favors from that list, they are very undersized. I'm not talking about a rotation player, just a big stiff that can be thrown in there when necessary.

Solid point, whats Ante Tomic up to these days?

TheMagnus wrote:

Solid point, whats Ante Tomic up to these days?

Averaging 15 pts and 6 rbs a game for FB Barcelona. Considered by some to be one of the top big men in Europe. Hmmmm.

MTJazz wrote:

Found the article right on, ( he must be stalking our board, hah!). Though sheer speculation, I thought it was interesting that he declares it "not axiomatic" that the Jazz stick with the young guns and either Favors or Kanters could be part of a blockbuster trade provided Sap is retained. Don't know how I feel about this because I am seriously high on Kanter and somewhat high on Favors. Not discussing PG was indeed the only article gap for those of us who obsess on such things. Who knows? Maybe they can talk Mo into a 3 year deal with 3rd year as team option if they go after a PG in the draft?

One other thing. As long as GH is going to be coming off the bench at the 2/3, the Jazz are clearly in need of upgrades in at the starter 2 and 3. Since GH is a lock to be re-signed, and Marvin ain't going anywhere next year, (and yet may prove valuable coming off the bench, allowing GH to start), I'm saying the Jazz biggest need in a return to relevance is a really damn good 2 and PG. I honestly think the Jazz figure Mo still has it - and he might, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Jazz "big moves" being:
Re-signing Sap for a raise
Re-signing Mo for less than he makes this year but still plenty
Drafting a rookie PG
Getting a very good 2 in FA
Getting a cheap veteran big.

Who knows how the math works on this, but suddenly the Jazz wouldn't have much to spend in '14 extending GH and Favs? Further, unless that new 2 was absolutely a great player AND the Kanter/GH/Burks kids continue their upward climb -- that roster still looks bottom half of the WC playoff contenders to me.

Kanter does look good doesn't he....

Well, not that the Jazz haven't shocked me before, I but I think the writing is on the wall for Al not to be resigned. And if thats the case, then I'm all for resigning Paul of course, and Gordon moving back into the starting lineup. Al out of there changes everything. And Gordon would be able to show all his multi-faceted skillset, to go along with Mo who can be a PG or scorer, DC to do the ugly stuff, Paul and Fav or Kanter. Then Burks to sub in for either wing, or even Mo, and we're still running and gunning. Or, if we can pull off some sort of sign and trade for a nasty 2, that'd be cool. Or nasty 3. I like Gordon best at 2. Going to be really interesting. But just like this year showed, our "core 4" will be even better next year.

So all we need is JVG to slide in as Head Coach and we're ready to go

TheMagnus wrote:

Great Great read for every Jazz fan from Zack Lowe over at Grantland...

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9042169/al-jefferson-paul-millsap-tyrone-corbin-future-utah-jazz

I was going to post an excerpt but you've really got to read the whole thing. Just outstanding work, breaking down the Jazz rebuilding strategy, the Millsap/Jefferson debate, and the issues with Ty Corbin.

It's always great to see media talking about the Jazz. I don't think I've ever seen a legitimate media source (outside of SLC) print this much about the Jazz!

Like with this fan site, I agreed with some things (with a "yeah, but...") and disagreed with some things (with a "mmm, no, but still I understand your point.").

I don't think, though, I've ever read a legitimate media publish so many words without going anywhere. Frankly, it was like reading a bunch of our threads without strong editorial guidance.

But, maybe that's perfect for the Jazz. Where are we and where are we going? Anywhere but nowhere, I guess, would be the most optimistic interpretation.

Here is Brad Rock's take on the Grantland article.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865575855/Utah-Jazz-The-team-that-time-and-America-forgot.html

Comments like this one make me wonder if it is just me, or does it seem that the guy from Grantland likes the Jazz more & knows more about the Jazz than Mr. Rock?

"Utah would be just another Sacramento, minus the athleticism and weirdness."

"Weirdness"? Sure. Cousins + the possible relocation do make that team weird, but why would anyone consider a team with Favors, J.Evans, Burks, Heyward, etc. a less athletic team than the Kings who's most athletic players, as best as I can tell, are probably T.Evans, P.Patterson & J.Thompson?

zero24gravity wrote:

Here is Brad Rock's take on the Grantland article.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865575855/Utah-Jazz-The-team-that-time-and-America-forgot.html

Comments like this one make me wonder if it is just me, or does it seem that the guy from Grantland likes the Jazz more & knows more about the Jazz than Mr. Rock?

"Utah would be just another Sacramento, minus the athleticism and weirdness."

"Weirdness"? Sure. Cousins + the possible relocation do make that team weird, but why would anyone consider a team with Favors, J.Evans, Burks, Heyward, etc. a less athletic team than the Kings who's most athletic players, as best as I can tell, are probably T.Evans, P.Patterson & J.Thompson?

Ya, if you are looking for intelligent sports writing and insight my advice is to stay away from featured Sports Columnists. Brad Rock, Gordon Monson, Kurt Kragthorpe and the like are just detatched pundits throwing out witty banter for idiot masses. Seriously.

The Beat writers for the Desnews (Jody Gennessy) and Trib (Bill Oram) are excellent, and I find that the good Jazz blogs consistently produce better material than the paid Sports Columnists, heck most of the time the opinions expressed here are more meaningfull to me than the stuff those guys produce.

TheMagnus wrote:

Great Great read for every Jazz fan from Zack Lowe over at Grantland...

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9042169/al-jefferson-paul-millsap-tyrone-corbin-future-utah-jazz

I was going to post an excerpt but you've really got to read the whole thing. Just outstanding work, breaking down the Jazz rebuilding strategy, the Millsap/Jefferson debate, and the issues with Ty Corbin.

Same stuff fans discuss every day. Pat yourselves on the back, not him.

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

Here is Brad Rock's take on the Grantland article.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865575855/Utah-Jazz-The-team-that-time-and-America-forgot.html

Comments like this one make me wonder if it is just me, or does it seem that the guy from Grantland likes the Jazz more & knows more about the Jazz than Mr. Rock?

"Utah would be just another Sacramento, minus the athleticism and weirdness."

"Weirdness"? Sure. Cousins + the possible relocation do make that team weird, but why would anyone consider a team with Favors, J.Evans, Burks, Heyward, etc. a less athletic team than the Kings who's most athletic players, as best as I can tell, are probably T.Evans, P.Patterson & J.Thompson?

Ya, if you are looking for intelligent sports writing and insight my advice is to stay away from featured Sports Columnists. Brad Rock, Gordon Monson, Kurt Kragthorpe and the like are just detatched pundits throwing out witty banter for idiot masses. Seriously.

The Beat writers for the Desnews (Jody Gennessy) and Trib (Bill Oram) are excellent, and I find that the good Jazz blogs consistently produce better material than the paid Sports Columnists, heck most of the time the opinions expressed here are more meaningfull to me than the stuff those guys produce.

But, imo, Monson asks the hard questions on his talk show. Like to KOC and doing nothing during the trade deadline, and what the Jazz need to do for a contending team again. Not a huge fan of his writing though

I just couldn't watch all the links to the Jazz' bad pick-and-roll defense in the article..depressing.



I keep thinking Corbin needs more time, but now I'm not so sure. One thing though, if the pick-and-roll defense still sucks after, and if, Jefferson is gone- then Corbin should be shown the door...despite having young players in Favors and Kanter- they should be able to move their feet to keep the pg penetrating.

Another thing; so most teams usually subscibe to getting something for a player than "possibly" letting them go for nothing- but Utah didn't with Sap and Jefferson... This could be a major mistake. I know, not a news flash, but the possiblity exists that both players are going to other teams- leaving the Jazz with youth and high hopes as their future- which is more of a gamble than trading or signing one or both of them.

aliveandkickin wrote:

....Sap and Jefferson... the possiblity exists that both players are going to other teams...

I hope so. I'm just tired of them both. Neither of them seem to be able to add a thing to his game without losing something else... and they're so fu%$&((/& boring

Big Al has showed a willingness to pass and move better on offense but has regressed his D to the point he's unwatchable, and Paul has managed all his hard work to transform himself from a good defender to an atrocious one... of course, he has bettered his jumper...

I hope the Jazz don't waste their money on any of them.