Next Dynasty starts now

Saint Louis wrote:

Mu, you know I respect you. But, go back and look at all of our fantasy drafts to see who thinks who is best. Millsap was taken at least by 15th overall in all my Jazzfan leagues. I picked up Blake Griffin at 30, and Griffin is absolutely a better PF than Millsap. I love Millsap, but, there is no way he is better than Blake Griffin. So, listen. This may or may not be true, but, I'll say it anyway: Jazz Fans overvalue their favorite players, which, frequently are Jazz players. Maybe it's because I've played Fantasy Basketball too long, but I've become pretty good at knowing the difference between what I want to be true and what is really true.

Sure, and likewise.

And if you're looking at Fantasy, then yea look at the stats. They're equals. Except Griffins FT's hurt more, as do his turnovers. Griffin also had his best year statistically so far, and Millsap dropped a bit. And I play in two leagues, ours and another. And Paul was taken 2nd round. Its all those steals that people loved.

But I dont understand why you say Griffin is ABSOLUTELY better. Better shooter? No. More assists/better passer? No. Shot blocker? No. Rebounder, no. He can jump higher, and dunk better. But aside from seriously just being flashier, I really dont see it. And without CP3 setting him up all the time, I think it's actually in Pauls favor.

Lastly, you like the Fantasy stats and experience. You know what Pauls Fantasy ranking was before the season started? 18. Griffin? 43. YOUCH

Mutangclan wrote:

Saint Louis wrote:

I'm a Jazz fan. But, I've got to tell you: Rudy Gay is a better SF than Hayhey, and, DeRozan is a better SF than Hayhey. If you want to look at really lousy teams in the East with better SFs than Hayhey, let's look at the Charlotte Bobcats (Henderson and Kidd-Gilchrest).

Hayhey is currently my favorite NBA player. I don't think he's the best, or even near the best. I just love to watch him play. I'm not delusional, though, about how good he is now or what he can become. Just to clue you in, I was a big Bryon Russell fan (back when we had Stockton, Malone, and Horny). Hayhey (IMO) is better than B-Russ, but, we don't have a Stockton, Malone, or Hornicek.

This is the only part left for me. I'm in the same boat Saint, loving watching Hayward play. Same with Kanter. I think its their relentlessness and competitiveness with a good skill set.
With that, I'll 100% argue that Derozan is better than Gordo. About the only thing DD is better than Gordo is, is maybe drives to the basket and finishing right now. GH is a better defender, 3pt shooter, mid-range shooter, passer, even shot blocker.

The Rudy, Demar, Gordon debate is awesome because they are all such similar players and they all started in the league at the same age.

So for you science buffs out there, witness the natural selection as Gordon Hayward evolves to be the superior species...

Gordon, Demar, and Rudy at age 20...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=derozde01&y1=2010&p2=haywago01&y2=2011&p3=gayru01&y3=2007

Age 21...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=derozde01&y1=2011&p2=haywago01&y2=2012&p3=gayru01&y3=2008

Age 22...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=derozde01&y1=2012&p2=haywago01&y2=2013&p3=gayru01&y3=2009

And that's where Gordon meets the present. This last one is Gordon this year vs. Rudy at 24 (his best year as a pro) and DeMar this year at 23...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=derozde01&y1=2013&p2=haywago01&y2=2013&p3=gayru01&y3=2011

TheMagnus wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Saint Louis wrote:

I'm a Jazz fan. But, I've got to tell you: Rudy Gay is a better SF than Hayhey, and, DeRozan is a better SF than Hayhey. If you want to look at really lousy teams in the East with better SFs than Hayhey, let's look at the Charlotte Bobcats (Henderson and Kidd-Gilchrest).

Hayhey is currently my favorite NBA player. I don't think he's the best, or even near the best. I just love to watch him play. I'm not delusional, though, about how good he is now or what he can become. Just to clue you in, I was a big Bryon Russell fan (back when we had Stockton, Malone, and Horny). Hayhey (IMO) is better than B-Russ, but, we don't have a Stockton, Malone, or Hornicek.

This is the only part left for me. I'm in the same boat Saint, loving watching Hayward play. Same with Kanter. I think its their relentlessness and competitiveness with a good skill set.
With that, I'll 100% argue that Derozan is better than Gordo. About the only thing DD is better than Gordo is, is maybe drives to the basket and finishing right now. GH is a better defender, 3pt shooter, mid-range shooter, passer, even shot blocker.

The Rudy, Demar, Gordon debate is awesome because they are all such similar players and they all started in the league at the same age.

So for you science buffs out there, witness the natural selection as Gordon Hayward evolves to be the superior species...

Gordon, Demar, and Rudy at age 20...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=derozde01&y1=2010&p2=haywago01&y2=2011&p3=gayru01&y3=2007

Age 21...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=derozde01&y1=2011&p2=haywago01&y2=2012&p3=gayru01&y3=2008

Age 22...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=derozde01&y1=2012&p2=haywago01&y2=2013&p3=gayru01&y3=2009

And that's where Gordon meets the present. This last one is Gordon this year vs. Rudy at 24 (his best year as a pro) and DeMar this year at 23...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=derozde01&y1=2013&p2=haywago01&y2=2013&p3=gayru01&y3=2011

This is perfect. I agree completely with your overall point. Numbers show Gordan is as good as a whole lot of other SG/SFs in the league. And, I hope Gordan becomes better this year and next than many other SG/SFs.

And, I'm pretty sure everyone mistook my statement that our post-season Jazz are the worst Jazz team we've had in a very long time. The Jazz have been above average for most of the past thirty years. Even if the Jazz now have potentially their worst team in the last 30 years, they're still pretty good. There are two reasons I'm a Jazz fan. One, I lived in SLC during the entire Stockton to Malone era, watching almost every game; and, two, the Jazz were still incredibly impressive after the Stockton to Malone era. Frankly, I'm enough of a homer to think the Jazz have a slight chance of not only making the playoffs, but actually pushing either OKC or SA into an extended series.

As for Gordan (I really prefer either Hayhay or Heyhay), I love his game and root for him always. But, when I objectively look at him compared to other SGs and SFs in the league, I still see him as average with a potential to be above average. You can't only look at stats to determine who is a better player. I've mentioned players on so-so teams, like DeRozan and Gay in Toronto, or Henderson and Kidd-Gilchrest in Charlotte (a bad team, actually). I try not to let my "Fantasy Basketball" perspective interfere with my objective opinion. As it stands, Our Gordan is at best an average SG/SF. When he really turns into HeyHay, he will be above average.

Right now, Millsap and Jefferson are our stars. If they don't shine for Utah for the rest of this season, we might as well lose them in the off-season. That wouldn't be good for the Jazz, but we have the potential to come back from it. So, what I'm hoping for is the Jazz play themselves back into the playoffs this year, and represent themselves well against some of the league's best teams. That's as optimistic as I can get.