Do we want to make the playoffs or rebuild our team?

Is making the playoffs our biggest aim? Do we really want to fight our way into the playoffs just to face the #1 seed? I kinda say yes, but I'll wait to vote.

It's been the theme all year, play the right players ( in the right combos/rotations). I dont think Tyroney will all of a sudden figure it out. However, he MAY finally sit Watson/Tinsley and more Burks taking more minutes from Foye. Maybe.

If thats the case, then we can make the playoffs and if we were to get San Antonio again, this year we have the outside shooting that we were missing among other things. Not that we have much of a chance to beat them, but I'd bet we win a couple games at least.
Or getting swept in the first round is actually fine with me. We dont need anymore youth on this team, I dont care about the draft mainly because any PG available is going to be available as a late lotto anyway.
Not to mention, we'll be big players in FA with 30m or more available. Soooo, make the playoffs, there is some good things that can come from it even if you get beat handily.

I was wondering about the chances of getting a good PG in the late lottery (picks 10-13), so I went back until 1990 and found ... well.... nothing.

2012 had Kendall Marshall and Austin Rivers. Too early to tell with these guys.

In 2011 you had Jimmer and Burks, but I don't consider them PG success stories.

In 2008 you had Brandon Jennings at #10.

I had to go all the way back to Jason Terry in 1999 before I found anyone else of note.... and he isn't even a real PG.

After that, it was Lindsey Hunter in 1993.

The best I could find was all the way back in 1991 when Terrell Brandon went at #11.

So in 22 years, there are FOUR PG's even worth mentioning, and one in the 21st century..... yikes!

Bring on the playoffs! (Especially if that means keeping the Lakers out.) Also, it's likely that the only way we see more Kanter this year is if the playoffs happen.

I can ever root against the Jazz, even if it means better lottery position. (Edit: I can also NEVER root against the Jazz...good lord that was a bad typo.)

A) We have a #2 and 2 #3 overall picks on the team, along with a #7. #9, a #12 and Big Al was drafted #15. WHY would you lose games to draft a #12 instead of a #17?? We aren't going to be bad enough to get one of the top guys and I'm not much in favor of cheating your fans just to gain a ping pong ball. I AM in favor of more minutes for Favors, Burks and Evans. Yes, Evans.

B) We WILL have $20-30 mill to spend on FAs and we don't really need EVERYTHING.

C) There may well be hidden gems in the mid-lotto. Eric Maynor may not be a franchise PG, but we could sure have used him this year and he was a 20th pick. Hell, where was John Stockton slotted? It was considered a reach for the Jazz to take him even at 16! Not saying a John Stockton is anything but a complete anomaly, but still...2/3 of a John Stockton would be more than adequate for the Jazz/ PG needs, I think.

thejazzkickazz wrote:

I can ever root against the Jazz, even if it means better lottery position.

Good man.

Where is that other Burkes from Michigan going to go? Cause uh, that kid? Mega-Monster tonight. Gimme that one right thrrrrrrr.

Trollificus wrote:

A) We have a #2 and 2 #3 overall picks on the team, along with a #7. #9, a #12 and Big Al was drafted #15. WHY would you lose games to draft a #12 instead of a #17?? We aren't going to be bad enough to get one of the top guys and I'm not much in favor of cheating your fans just to gain a ping pong ball. I AM in favor of more minutes for Favors, Burks and Evans. Yes, Evans.

B) We WILL have $20-30 mill to spend on FAs and we don't really need EVERYTHING.

C) There may well be hidden gems in the mid-lotto. Eric Maynor may not be a franchise PG, but we could sure have used him this year and he was a 20th pick. Hell, where was John Stockton slotted? It was considered a reach for the Jazz to take him even at 16! Not saying a John Stockton is anything but a complete anomaly, but still...2/3 of a John Stockton would be more than adequate for the Jazz/ PG needs, I think.

If the season ended today the Jazz would have picks 16 and 19. If we make the playoffs we likely get pick 16 with our pick, if we miss out we would be either 13 or 14. I'm still holding out hope that GS limps to the finish and gets passed in the standings by Atlanta and Houston, making that pick #17, but it looks like Atlanta and Houston aren't cooperating.

I think we could probably package 16 and 19 and move up 5 or 6 spots to grab Burke or Carter-Williams if that seemed like the best thing to do, which at this moment it most certainly does.

Mutangclan wrote:

Where is that other Burkes from Michigan going to go? Cause uh, that kid? Mega-Monster tonight. Gimme that one right thrrrrrrr.

The kid's stock is rising. He won't fall to where the jazz land. Jazz will have to at least bundle both picks. Kid was incredible in the 2nd half tonight.

zero24gravity wrote:

I was wondering about the chances of getting a good PG in the late lottery (picks 10-13), so I went back until 1990 and found ... well.... nothing.

2012 had Kendall Marshall and Austin Rivers. Too early to tell with these guys.

In 2011 you had Jimmer and Burks, but I don't consider them PG success stories.

In 2008 you had Brandon Jennings at #10.

I had to go all the way back to Jason Terry in 1999 before I found anyone else of note.... and he isn't even a real PG.

Whoa! You missed Tony Parker at number 28 in 2001--- the PG we passed over to take Raul Lopez at number 24!

Crunchtime1 wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

I was wondering about the chances of getting a good PG in the late lottery (picks 10-13), so I went back until 1990 and found ... well.... nothing.

2012 had Kendall Marshall and Austin Rivers. Too early to tell with these guys.

In 2011 you had Jimmer and Burks, but I don't consider them PG success stories.

In 2008 you had Brandon Jennings at #10.

I had to go all the way back to Jason Terry in 1999 before I found anyone else of note.... and he isn't even a real PG.

Whoa! You missed Tony Parker at number 28 in 2001--- the PG we passed over to take Raul Lopez at number 24!

I was just looking at the late lottery, picks 10-13, since that is where the team would pick if they miss the playoffs.

Crunchtime1 wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

I was wondering about the chances of getting a good PG in the late lottery (picks 10-13), so I went back until 1990 and found ... well.... nothing.

2012 had Kendall Marshall and Austin Rivers. Too early to tell with these guys.

In 2011 you had Jimmer and Burks, but I don't consider them PG success stories.

In 2008 you had Brandon Jennings at #10.

I had to go all the way back to Jason Terry in 1999 before I found anyone else of note.... and he isn't even a real PG.

Whoa! You missed Tony Parker at number 28 in 2001--- the PG we passed over to take Raul Lopez at number 24!

Ya, the success rate of PG's in later picks has to be one of the highest of any position.

Jamaal Tinsley was 28th in 2001 right before Parker (don't forget he was a great PG at one point), and Gilbert Arenas was pick #30 in that same draft. Mo Williams was the Jazz 47th pick in the 2003 draft. Jameer Nelson was #20 in 2004. Jarrett Jack was #22 in 2005, and Monta Ellis was #40 that year. Rajon Rondo was the 21st overall pick in 2006, Kyle Lowry was #24 that year. Goran Dragic was a second rounder (pick 45) in 2008 (that draft was LOADED with talent). Jrue Holliday, Ty Lawson, Jeff Teague, Eric Maynor, and Darren Collison were taken picks 17 through 21 in 2009. Eric Bledsoe was pick #18, and Greivis Vasquez was #28 in 2010.


This draft has really two groups of PG's, the top 3 of Smart, Burke, and Carter-Williams who will all probably be lottery picks, and then the second group of "dissapointments". Smart is a consensus top 5 pick, Burke is quickly moving himself out of the Jazz range and into the top 10 with a great tournament. Carter-Williams was a consensus lottery guy most of the season but was slipping until a nice game this weekend, one more solid performance for him and he probably locks in lottery status.

The second group includes a bunch of guys who were highly touted but have not performed up to the hype and are now projected late first early second round picks. Myck Kabongo was a projected lottery pick that was suspended for most of the season but showed some really nice stuff at the end of the season for Texas, and could be a really nice find in the late first if he declares for the draft. BJ Young is a shoot first PG, he was a Lottery pick before the year started but had a terrible year and may decide to stay in school. Lorenzo Brown was labeled the best pure PG in this years draft by a lot of people before the season, but had a very uneven year and was destroyed by other top tier PG talent. I think there is probably at least one of these players that will be a really nice NBA PG, but I'm not sure which. Kabongo would probably be my pick right now with the GS pick if one of the top 3 wasn't available with the Jazz pick and the Jazz didn't move up.

Yes, I don't think giving our young guys, Favors, Kanter, Burks, Evans and DC, more burn is inconsistent with winning, so yes, we can conceivably do both --- give the young guys some more burn and make the playoffs. And yes, I know Kanter is out.

But your choices don't directly address my concern. My biggest off season priority, before the draft and trades begin, is to replace Tyrone Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) with a better coach, and if we make the playoffs, I think the likelihood of the conservative Jazz front office replacing Ty is greatly diminished. If I could be assured of replacing Ty by missing the playoffs, sadly, I would root to miss the playoffs. I guess my ideal scenario is that the Jazz continue to develop down the stretch, giving the above young players some more burn and that they play better than 500 ball to finish the season with a little optimism, but that their record still isn't good enough to get in the playoffs. Missing the playoffs then results in an upgrade at Coach. JMHO.

Crunchtime1 wrote:

Yes, I don't think giving our young guys, Favors, Kanter, Burks, Evans and DC, more burn is inconsistent with winning, so yes, we can conceivably do both --- give the young guys some more burn and make the playoffs. And yes, I know Kanter is out.

But your choices don't directly address my concern. My biggest off season priority, before the draft and trades begin, is to replace Tyrone Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) with a better coach, and if we make the playoffs, I think the likelihood of the conservative Jazz front office replacing Ty is greatly diminished. If I could be assured of replacing Ty by missing the playoffs, sadly, I would root to miss the playoffs. I guess my ideal scenario is that the Jazz continue to develop down the stretch, giving the above young players some more burn and that they play better than 500 ball to finish the season with a little optimism, but that their record still isn't good enough to get in the playoffs. Missing the playoffs then results in an upgrade at Coach. JMHO.

Reputation given because you saved me from typing my response. I'll just ditto your sentiments

Crunchtime1 wrote:

Yes, I don't think giving our young guys, Favors, Kanter, Burks, Evans and DC, more burn is inconsistent with winning, so yes, we can conceivably do both --- give the young guys some more burn and make the playoffs. And yes, I know Kanter is out.

But your choices don't directly address my concern. My biggest off season priority, before the draft and trades begin, is to replace Tyrone Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) with a better coach, and if we make the playoffs, I think the likelihood of the conservative Jazz front office replacing Ty is greatly diminished. If I could be assured of replacing Ty by missing the playoffs, sadly, I would root to miss the playoffs. I guess my ideal scenario is that the Jazz continue to develop down the stretch, giving the above young players some more burn and that they play better than 500 ball to finish the season with a little optimism, but that their record still isn't good enough to get in the playoffs. Missing the playoffs then results in an upgrade at Coach. JMHO.

Did you all sign the petition???!!!! It's our extremely unlikely, but only hope for a voice.

Completely agree with you obviously.

Playoffs any way possible. That's what NBA's all about.
It doesn't make sense to fail postseason... unless you're working an all season long tanking a la Spurs to get a Duncan

outerspacefan wrote:

Playoffs any way possible. That's what NBA's all about.
It doesn't make sense to fail postseason... unless you're working an all season long tanking a la Spurs to get a Duncan

I dunno, I think tanking if you're already really, really lousy, or, even better, have SOME talent but have laready had a really bad year, is a good idea. If you're looking at going from #8 to #4 or 3, that might be a franchise-affecting difference. Tanking to move around in the middle of the draft is b ullsh!t. I always admired Sloan for placing value on, you know, giving the fans an honest effort in exchange for their hard-earned money.

Between, say 10 and 24 or so, scouting is more important than ping pong balls anyway.

TheMagnus wrote:

Ya, the success rate of PG's in later picks has to be one of the highest of any position.

Jamaal Tinsley was 28th in 2001 right before Parker (don't forget he
was a great PG at one point), and Gilbert Arenas was pick #30 in that
same draft. Mo Williams was the Jazz 47th pick in the 2003 draft.
Jameer Nelson was #20 in 2004. Jarrett Jack was #22 in 2005, and Monta
Ellis was #40 that year. Rajon Rondo was the 21st overall pick in 2006,
Kyle Lowry was #24 that year. Goran Dragic was a second rounder (pick
45) in 2008 (that draft was LOADED with talent). Jrue Holliday, Ty
Lawson, Jeff Teague, Eric Maynor, and Darren Collison were taken picks
17 through 21 in 2009. Eric Bledsoe was pick #18, and Greivis Vasquez
was #28 in 2010.

That is an encouraging and inspiring list!! It wouldn't be a bad thing to find a Ty Lawson or Lowry or Rondo or Ellis in the 16-20 range, eh? None of them are perfect (except Rondo, but safe to say there isn't another Rondo in this years' draft, same as there hasn't been since '06), but any of them, even as rookies, would be an upgrade.

I think it's unanimous that we'd all be happier than hell to see the Jazz in the playoffs, even if they have to go up against the hated Spurs again. I can't imagine desiring any other outcome this season. Let's get into the playoffs, Jazz!!!

Call me crazy....but if everyone is healthy, I think this squad can compete with San An in a playoff series. No, they won't win it. But I could see them stealing a game or two and giving jazz nation something to cheer for.
With a healthy Mo, and with Foye heating back up at the right time...and if Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) uses players properly....I think we could steal a game or two.

The Voice of Reason wrote:

Call me crazy....but if everyone is healthy, I think this squad can compete with San An in a playoff series. No, they won't win it. But I could see them stealing a game or two and giving jazz nation something to cheer for.
With a healthy Mo, and with Foye heating back up at the right time...and if Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) uses players properly....I think we could steal a game or two.

Well lets be perfectly honest here, with the vets finally playing with some heart and fire Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) suddenly looks a lot smarter. Not excusing him, just saying the team looks pretty good right now with Foye hitting shots and Marvin making plays, even without much Burks or DC. I'm just pleased as punch to see Watson racking up the DNP-CD's.

TheMagnus wrote:

The Voice of Reason wrote:

Call me crazy....but if everyone is healthy, I think this squad can compete with San An in a playoff series. No, they won't win it. But I could see them stealing a game or two and giving jazz nation something to cheer for.
With a healthy Mo, and with Foye heating back up at the right time...and if Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) uses players properly....I think we could steal a game or two.

Well lets be perfectly honest here, with the vets finally playing with some heart and fire Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) suddenly looks a lot smarter. Not excusing him, just saying the team looks pretty good right now with Foye hitting shots and Marvin making plays, even without much Burks or DC. I'm just pleased as punch to see Watson racking up the DNP-CD's.

Id be shocked to see Watson in the league next year. Tinsley deserves a 3rd guard spot somewhere, if not in Utah. Then again, I was shocked to see OKC want fisher again,, so what do I know. (btw he is 2-23 from the field since the 17th)