Mo out "indefinitely"

I, on the other hand, am not interested in one of those scenarios. Except for Bynum. I think he could be as good as Mo Williams, and probably more healthy. But he's a good player, and thats proven really, while the pick is not. So I'd do that. The rest, big no thank you.

Scott Machado about to be waived by the Rockets... it probably worths to take a flyer developing the guy...

Saw this again on ESPN...

Quote :

Bargnani has two years and about $22.2 million remaining on his contract after this season and there has been some talk that Toronto may try to package him and Kyle Lowry to bring in an all-star caliber player.

Al Jefferson and Raja Bell for Bragninni and Lowry makes a fair bit of sense for both teams. I don't think Lindsay would take on Undreas contract though

TheMagnus wrote:

Saw this again on ESPN...

Quote :

Bargnani has two years and about $22.2 million remaining on his contract after this season and there has been some talk that Toronto may try to package him and Kyle Lowry to bring in an all-star caliber player.

Al Jefferson and Raja Bell for Bragninni and Lowry makes a fair bit of sense for both teams. I don't think Lindsay would take on Undreas contract though

I have mixed feelings about Barg...kind of like he is a Marvin Williams, picked too high relative to his top end. Check this article out from Toronto, says it all in my book. http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2013/01/02/raptor-fans-should-stop-expecting-bargnani-to-be-anything-close-to-a-franchise-player/ The observation that he is a nice third option scares me, given that we would have to give up our number one option in Al to get him, (the author notes Toronto is in discussion with Utah). On the other hand, the opportunity to get Lowry as well is intriguing. Also, at $11MM a year for only two years I don't see it as a terrible experiment as long as the Jazz also have ideas on how to bring in more scoring, the number one and two option. I know it is a pipe dream but what the Jazz really need is a franchise, allstar type player, and our only good anchor chips in a trade are Al or Paul.

TheMagnus wrote:

Saw this again on ESPN...

Quote :

Bargnani has two years and about $22.2 million remaining on his contract after this season and there has been some talk that Toronto may try to package him and Kyle Lowry to bring in an all-star caliber player.

Al Jefferson and Raja Bell for Bragninni and Lowry makes a fair bit of sense for both teams. I don't think Lindsay would take on Undreas contract though

That contract runs out before it would really damage the Jazz' ability to resign/sign players. If it were a year longer, then it would be an issue. But would the Jazz pay a guy 11 million a year to be a role/bench player?

Hmmmm ..... the more I think about it, the more I like it. Bargs gets 20-25 minutes, freeing up about 10 minutes a game for Favors/Kanter. Kanter becomes the primary post player on the team and maybe even start next to Millsap so Bargnani can play PF with Favcrs achoring the D with the second unit. His terrible defense can be masked by Favors, DC, Gordo (, Marvin). Plus, if Bargs played more with the second unit then he wouldn't be manned up with the other teams starting PF, so his defensive issues may not be as bad.

And that doesn't even talk about the primary player the Jazz get in the deal..... a quality all around PG in Lowry, which also means the Jazz have Mo (when he comes back) as a serious spark off the bench, or could even start Lowry & Mo.

Yup, I think I'd take it. Jazz would probably have to throw in a pick or two. (Hell, giv 'em the rights to Tomic just for fun.)

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Saw this again on ESPN...

Quote :

Bargnani has two years and about $22.2 million remaining on his contract after this season and there has been some talk that Toronto may try to package him and Kyle Lowry to bring in an all-star caliber player.

Al Jefferson and Raja Bell for Bragninni and Lowry makes a fair bit of sense for both teams. I don't think Lindsay would take on Undreas contract though

That contract runs out before it would really damage the Jazz' ability to resign/sign players. If it were a year longer, then it would be an issue. But would the Jazz pay a guy 11 million a year to be a role/bench player?

Hmmmm ..... the more I think about it, the more I like it. Bargs gets 20-25 minutes, freeing up about 10 minutes a game for Favors/Kanter. Kanter becomes the primary post player on the team and maybe even start next to Millsap so Bargnani can play PF with Favcrs achoring the D with the second unit. His terrible defense can be masked by Favors, DC, Gordo (, Marvin). Plus, if Bargs played more with the second unit then he wouldn't be manned up with the other teams starting PF, so his defensive issues may not be as bad.

And that doesn't even talk about the primary player the Jazz get in the deal..... a quality all around PG in Lowry, which also means the Jazz have Mo (when he comes back) as a serious spark off the bench, or could even start Lowry & Mo.

Yup, I think I'd take it. Jazz would probably have to throw in a pick or two. (Hell, giv 'em the rights to Tomic just for fun.)

Good points Zero, its growing on me as well. As for Barg's D, the Toronto writer claims he plays above average man D but sucks at team D, plus he doesn't like to bang in the trees at all. Really like the idea of him being a stretch 4 with the second unit, and of course I'm stoked about the idea of seeing Kanter and Favors getting more minutes and despite some other strong opinions on this board, think your idea of starting Kanter with Paul would not be a bad option. Again, though, someone else or the team would have to come up with more buckets that Al was delivering because we all know what happens when our designated outside shooters all go cold the same night, which happens about every other game. I would fear for the lost post-game....but Lowry? Hell yeah.

MTJazz wrote:

I have mixed feelings about Barg...kind of like he is a Marvin Williams, picked too high relative to his top end. Check this article out from Toronto, says it all in my book. http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2013/01/02/raptor-fans-should-stop-expecting-bargnani-to-be-anything-close-to-a-franchise-player/ The observation that he is a nice third option scares me, given that we would have to give up our number one option in Al to get him, (the author notes Toronto is in discussion with Utah). On the other hand, the opportunity to get Lowry as well is intriguing. Also, at $11MM a year for only two years I don't see it as a terrible experiment as long as the Jazz also have ideas on how to bring in more scoring, the number one and two option. I know it is a pipe dream but what the Jazz really need is a franchise, allstar type player, and our only good anchor chips in a trade are Al or Paul.

My thought is that he would be a very overpaid, but effective bench scorer for the Jazz. It's not Al for Bargs though. It's Al for Lowry, plus Bargs, plus the opportunity to give Favors & Kanter prime time PT.

MTJazz wrote:

Good points Zero, its growing on me as well. As for Barg's D, the Toronto writer claims he plays above average man D but sucks at team D, plus he doesn't like to bang in the trees at all. Really like the idea of him being a stretch 4 with the second unit, and of course I'm stoked about the idea of seeing Kanter and Favors getting more minutes and despite some other strong opinions on this board, think your idea of starting Kanter with Paul would not be a bad option. Again, though, someone else or the team would have to come up with more buckets that Al was delivering because we all know what happens when our designated outside shooters all go cold the same night, which happens about every other game. I would fear for the lost post-game....but Lowry? Hell yeah.

Kanter isn't ready to be a 17-20 PPG guy, but he can keep the post game respectable. Also, Paul would have to do a little more inside work if Al were gone, but the team would have a guy (Lowry) that can score (unlike Tinsley), so that would help as well. But you're right, the inside game wouldn't be the same.

MTJazz wrote:

I have mixed feelings about Barg...kind of like he is a Marvin Williams, picked too high relative to his top end. Check this article out from Toronto, says it all in my book. http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2013/01/02/raptor-fans-should-stop-expecting-bargnani-to-be-anything-close-to-a-franchise-player/ The observation that he is a nice third option scares me, given that we would have to give up our number one option in Al to get him, (the author notes Toronto is in discussion with Utah). On the other hand, the opportunity to get Lowry as well is intriguing. Also, at $11MM a year for only two years I don't see it as a terrible experiment as long as the Jazz also have ideas on how to bring in more scoring, the number one and two option. I know it is a pipe dream but what the Jazz really need is a franchise, allstar type player, and our only good anchor chips in a trade are Al or Paul.

Ya, that's tough. Honestly the more I think about it the more I don't like it. Calderone is a better fit, and he can be had in the offseason.

You gotta give a huge amount of credit to the Rockets GM Morey, I mean they made some rediculously balsy moves and it is absolutely working out for them. They used poison pill contracts to pry Lin and Asik away from their teams, they traded, released, or amnestied almost every player on the roster, and they pulled of one of the greatest moves of the year in picking up Harden.

There is one thing that I think people forget about when they talk about free agency, and that is how every year small market teams pry restricted free agents away from teams over the salary cap, more often than not people say those players are overpaid when they sign the contract, and as often as not they turn out to be worth every penny. The Jazz hav ethe cap flexibility to front load a contract and make it difficult for teams already close to the tax next year to match.

So who are we talking about heading into this offseason? Who could be the next underutilized player coming off a rookie contract that could be worth taking a shot at?

I don't see anybody that could be a potential franchise guy, they have all alredy been locked up, but there are a few interesting options...

At PG we have Jennings, Evans, and Teague. I don't think any of them is a franchise quality player, but they are all solid. I actually think Evans might be the best candidate for a hostile takover in that bunch.

Still, I am feeling more and more like if the Jazz are going to stick with thier traditional methods and schemes they need a pass first PG, and the only one that really fits the bill in my mind is Calderone. He's not restricted, but he will be a free agent, and I'd bet he'd come to Utah if they made him a good offer.

One of the guys I think would be a prime target, for a lot of reasons, is Tiago Splitter. He has been really good for the Spurs this year and I think he'll be easily worth 8 figures. Just letting both Millsap and Jefferson go and picking up Splitter would be just fine in my book. If you front loaded a contract to pay him the Max in year one and then something like 10 a year after that I think the Spurs would have a tough time matching.

TheMagnus wrote:

Ya, that's tough. Honestly the more I think about it the more I don't like it. Calderone is a better fit, and he can be had in the offseason.

You gotta give a huge amount of credit to the Rockets GM Morey, I mean they made some rediculously balsy moves and it is absolutely working out for them. They used poison pill contracts to pry Lin and Asik away from their teams, they traded, released, or amnestied almost every player on the roster, and they pulled of one of the greatest moves of the year in picking up Harden.

There is one thing that I think people forget about when they talk about free agency, and that is how every year small market teams pry restricted free agents away from teams over the salary cap, more often than not people say those players are overpaid when they sign the contract, and as often as not they turn out to be worth every penny. The Jazz hav ethe cap flexibility to front load a contract and make it difficult for teams already close to the tax next year to match.

So who are we talking about heading into this offseason? Who could be the next underutilized player coming off a rookie contract that could be worth taking a shot at?

I don't see anybody that could be a potential franchise guy, they have all alredy been locked up, but there are a few interesting options...

At PG we have Jennings, Evans, and Teague. I don't think any of them is a franchise quality player, but they are all solid. I actually think Evans might be the best candidate for a hostile takover in that bunch.

Still, I am feeling more and more like if the Jazz are going to stick with thier traditional methods and schemes they need a pass first PG, and the only one that really fits the bill in my mind is Calderone. He's not restricted, but he will be a free agent, and I'd bet he'd come to Utah if they made him a good offer.

One of the guys I think would be a prime target, for a lot of reasons, is Tiago Splitter. He has been really good for the Spurs this year and I think he'll be easily worth 8 figures. Just letting both Millsap and Jefferson go and picking up Splitter would be just fine in my book. If you front loaded a contract to pay him the Max in year one and then something like 10 a year after that I think the Spurs would have a tough time matching.

Calderon would be nice, but you're killing me with that proposed offer to Splitter. He's a nice player ... but over 10 million a year for a "nice player"?

In 20 MPG he's getting roughly 9 points, 5 boards, 1.5 assists & less than a block per game. His %'s are nice (59/73). Another drawback is that the SA system makes a lot of players look better than they are. Doesn't mean he's not skilled, but $10 million+ for a #3 big who doesn't blow you away in any area???

We disagree on his value, but I also know that the NBA pays a premium for Big's, so it's always possible. I just hope it's not the Jazz that pay that much.

outerspacefan wrote:

Scott Machado about to be waived by the Rockets... it probably worths to take a flyer developing the guy...

Still agree on that....

And definitely STILL for Calderon. If we stay the course this season, playoffs wont happen. But this summer we'll have money,, tradeable players, picks etc to do work. Calderon for the next 5 years is an elite move.

zero24gravity wrote:

Calderon would be nice, but you're killing me with that proposed offer to Splitter. He's a nice player ... but over 10 million a year for a "nice player"?

In 20 MPG he's getting roughly 9 points, 5 boards, 1.5 assists & less than a block per game. His %'s are nice (59/73). Another drawback is that the SA system makes a lot of players look better than they are. Doesn't mean he's not skilled, but $10 million+ for a #3 big who doesn't blow you away in any area???

We disagree on his value, but I also know that the NBA pays a premium for Big's, so it's always possible. I just hope it's not the Jazz that pay that much.

Na man, if Millsap is worth 10 Mil, and Jefferson worth 14, then Splitter will be worth at least that with enough minutes.

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

Calderon would be nice, but you're killing me with that proposed offer to Splitter. He's a nice player ... but over 10 million a year for a "nice player"?

In 20 MPG he's getting roughly 9 points, 5 boards, 1.5 assists & less than a block per game. His %'s are nice (59/73). Another drawback is that the SA system makes a lot of players look better than they are. Doesn't mean he's not skilled, but $10 million+ for a #3 big who doesn't blow you away in any area???

We disagree on his value, but I also know that the NBA pays a premium for Big's, so it's always possible. I just hope it's not the Jazz that pay that much.

Na man, if Millsap is worth 10 Mil, and Jefferson worth 14, then Splitter will be worth at least that with enough minutes.

Mags, as Milsap's biggest supporter in this forum, you should be ashamed of yourself....... saying that Splitter and Paul are of equal value.

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

Calderon would be nice, but you're killing me with that proposed offer to Splitter. He's a nice player ... but over 10 million a year for a "nice player"?

In 20 MPG he's getting roughly 9 points, 5 boards, 1.5 assists & less than a block per game. His %'s are nice (59/73). Another drawback is that the SA system makes a lot of players look better than they are. Doesn't mean he's not skilled, but $10 million+ for a #3 big who doesn't blow you away in any area???

We disagree on his value, but I also know that the NBA pays a premium for Big's, so it's always possible. I just hope it's not the Jazz that pay that much.

Na man, if Millsap is worth 10 Mil, and Jefferson worth 14, then Splitter will be worth at least that with enough minutes.

Mags, as Milsap's biggest supporter in this forum, you should be ashamed of yourself....... saying that Splitter and Paul are of equal value.

You cut me deep zero, cut me deep....

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

Calderon would be nice, but you're killing me with that proposed offer to Splitter. He's a nice player ... but over 10 million a year for a "nice player"?

In 20 MPG he's getting roughly 9 points, 5 boards, 1.5 assists & less than a block per game. His %'s are nice (59/73). Another drawback is that the SA system makes a lot of players look better than they are. Doesn't mean he's not skilled, but $10 million+ for a #3 big who doesn't blow you away in any area???

We disagree on his value, but I also know that the NBA pays a premium for Big's, so it's always possible. I just hope it's not the Jazz that pay that much.

Na man, if Millsap is worth 10 Mil, and Jefferson worth 14, then Splitter will be worth at least that with enough minutes.

Would rather pay paul 10 than spitter
Al lookin good tonight and may be jazz 3rd guy moving paul for picks?

Like to see Gordo playing starting minutes and move Marv for Jose C to play PG this year! Not sure hi's our long term PG but works till bring young in and up to speed.

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

Calderon would be nice, but you're killing me with that proposed offer to Splitter. He's a nice player ... but over 10 million a year for a "nice player"?

In 20 MPG he's getting roughly 9 points, 5 boards, 1.5 assists & less than a block per game. His %'s are nice (59/73). Another drawback is that the SA system makes a lot of players look better than they are. Doesn't mean he's not skilled, but $10 million+ for a #3 big who doesn't blow you away in any area???

We disagree on his value, but I also know that the NBA pays a premium for Big's, so it's always possible. I just hope it's not the Jazz that pay that much.

Na man, if Millsap is worth 10 Mil, and Jefferson worth 14, then Splitter will be worth at least that with enough minutes.

Mags, as Milsap's biggest supporter in this forum, you should be ashamed of yourself....... saying that Splitter and Paul are of equal value.

You cut me deep zero, cut me deep....

Mutangclan wrote:

outerspacefan wrote:

Scott Machado about to be waived by the Rockets... it probably worths to take a flyer developing the guy...

Still agree on that....

And definitely STILL for Calderon. If we stay the course this season, playoffs wont happen. But this summer we'll have money,, tradeable players, picks etc to do work. Calderon for the next 5 years is an elite move.

Calderon's got game, probably as solid for the Jazz as anyone else realistically attainable out there... yet I kind of doubtful on his "clutchness" so to speak...
I guess I need Mag's advanced stats here a little bit

outerspacefan wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

outerspacefan wrote:

Scott Machado about to be waived by the Rockets... it probably worths to take a flyer developing the guy...

Still agree on that....

And definitely STILL for Calderon. If we stay the course this season, playoffs wont happen. But this summer we'll have money,, tradeable players, picks etc to do work. Calderon for the next 5 years is an elite move.

Calderon's got game, probably as solid for the Jazz as anyone else realistically attainable out there... yet I kind of doubtful on his "clutchness" so to speak...
I guess I need Mag's advanced stats here a little bit

Calderon is a younger Tinsley as far as PG skills, but also brings elite 3pt shooting. Regular double doubles, getting the other guys going, and 3pt shooting... Can you imagine this???

More bad news on the Mo front...

Quote :

"Just like last time," Williams said. "The only difference was it actually pulled a little piece of the bone with it this time."

The official word on Williams has been that he will be re-evaluated after six weeks of rehabilitation. However, Williams said Tuesday that the six-week mark, which would be Feb. 15, the Friday of All-Star weekend, is merely when the pin in his thumb will be removed.

"That’s when the rehab really starts," he said.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/55591912-87/williams-jazz-game-tuesday.html.csp

So that means earliest he's back is March, 8-10 Weeks is the most likely scenario.

Jazz PG Williams returns to practice

Posted Feb 18, 2013 11:54 PM

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- Utah Jazz point guard Mo Williams returned to practice Monday for non-contact drills for the first time since undergoing surgery on his right thumb in early January.


Williams has no timetable for his return. He wants to ensure there is no setback as he regains mobility in the joint.

Williams also said he "will breathe a sigh of relief" when Thursday's trade deadline passes after more rumors the Jazz are interested in Los Angeles Clippers point guard Eric Bledsoe - a deal that could affect Williams' long-term future.

Williams can become an unrestricted free agent after this season but is hopeful of staying with the Jazz. He acknowledged the team "has a lot of options" but held out hope the team "sees my value."

zero24gravity wrote:

Jazz PG Williams returns to practice

Posted Feb 18, 2013 11:54 PM

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- Utah Jazz point guard Mo Williams returned to practice Monday for non-contact drills for the first time since undergoing surgery on his right thumb in early January.


Williams has no timetable for his return. He wants to ensure there is no setback as he regains mobility in the joint.

Williams also said he "will breathe a sigh of relief" when Thursday's trade deadline passes after more rumors the Jazz are interested in Los Angeles Clippers point guard Eric Bledsoe - a deal that could affect Williams' long-term future.

Williams can become an unrestricted free agent after this season but is hopeful of staying with the Jazz. He acknowledged the team "has a lot of options" but held out hope the team "sees my value."

That's good news! So I'm guessing a couple more weeks and he should be good to go.