The Jimmer?

I know this is a retread of an old topic amongst the denizens of this board, but I wanted to ask what people here think of the possibility of bringing in the Jimmer? Is he available? He is a top 10 shooter from 3-point land this season, and is up to 8 points per game. Yet, it seems that Sacto is still not using him (14 mpg). I realize he has defensive deficiencies, but don't Tinsley and Watson have the same issues? At least the Jimmer can shoot.

Let it be known that I am a Ute fan, through and through, and no fan of the Jimmer and his Provo hype machine. However, the more I think about it, the more I think that he might fit in the Jazz's system. He probably has a reasonable upside, and I can see him increasing his assists numbers in a Jazz uniform.

Can he be got cheaply, and do the Jazz want him? What say you?

thejazzkickazz wrote:

I know this is a retread of an old topic amongst the denizens of this board, but I wanted to ask what people here think of the possibility of bringing in the Jimmer? Is he available? He is a top 10 shooter from 3-point land this season, and is up to 8 points per game. Yet, it seems that Sacto is still not using him (14 mpg). I realize he has defensive deficiencies, but don't Tinsley and Watson have the same issues? At least the Jimmer can shoot.

Let it be known that I am a Ute fan, through and through, and no fan of the Jimmer and his Provo hype machine. However, the more I think about it, the more I think that he might fit in the Jazz's system. He probably has a reasonable upside, and I can see him increasing his assists numbers in a Jazz uniform.

Can he be got cheaply, and do the Jazz want him? What say you?

I definitely think he's being underutilized on an awful Kings team. His numbers have come down a bit form a really good start to the season, but to me he's proved that he can be an efficient scorer in the NBA, and would be a huge upgrade for the Jazz at backup PG.

I don't think he comes cheap or easy though, last I saw his name mentioned it was next to DeMarcus Cousins and preceeded by the words "Kings not interested in trading".

I still think it's a pretty good idea. It's not like Watson or Tinsley are either "creating" baskets for others from the PG position or "locking down" any opposing PGs.

I'm pretty sure Jimmer can not create baskets for other and not lock down opposing PGs as well as the W/T combo AND he can shoot lights out.

That in itself would be a good thing. Look at how open Watson and Tinsley frequently are, and unable to take advantage of it. If nothing else, Jimmer would at least occupy an opposing defender at all times. That can't be bad, can it?

Now, if he can't get the ball up court without being stripped, that's a problem...

Also, I think the official release of a statement that says "Not interested in trading" means "Interested in trading but we want something"

Trollificus wrote:

I still think it's a pretty good idea. It's not like Watson or Tinsley are either "creating" baskets for others from the PG position or "locking down" any opposing PGs.

I'm pretty sure Jimmer can not create baskets for other and not lock down opposing PGs as well as the W/T combo AND he can shoot lights out.

That in itself would be a good thing. Look at how open Watson and Tinsley frequently are, and unable to take advantage of it. If nothing else, Jimmer would at least occupy an opposing defender at all times. That can't be bad, can it?

Now, if he can't get the ball up court without being stripped, that's a problem...

Also, I think the official release of a statement that says "Not interested in trading" means "Interested in trading but we want something"

Solid point about the lingo, these crazy GM's are like used car salesmen, always trying to make a deal.

I wouldn't lump Watson and Tinsley together. I think Tinsley is underrated defensively, he has the best defensive numbers of any of the Jazz 3 PG's, while Watson is overrated giving up a ridiculous 19 PER to BACKUP PG's. Tinsley has also been outstanding as the leader of the offense and facilitator whether it is with the first or second unit, actually positively impacting the performance of the players around him. I would also note that as a starter Tinsley is shooting 43% from the field and 35% from the 3 pt line.

There's a reason why replacing Watson with Burks has such a positive impact, even though Burks is not playing well and really isn't a PG, Watson is simply awful and should not be playing in the NBA anymore.

I'm not interested in talking about Jimmer again, especially with Burks on this team, who I think will be a player like jimmer, with better defense.

But I am interested in another re-tread, Josh Smith. You can look at the situation in two ways in ATL, either he's a malcontent and trouble maker, or he's tired of mediocrity and no sign of a strong future there. Moving Al Jeff for Smith works money wise, ATL needs a low post scorer and Horford prefers being a PF. Getting Josh in Utah where its more structured, he's not going to be looked at as the man or needed to be the man, and its a fresh start, would be awesome. Not to mention his defensive abilities, rebounding, athleticism and being able to play the SF or PF, is great. Not to mention, who doesn't want to see Utah finally make a big splash???!! Make waves, big moves, look at competing with the best!!

Can you imagine a lineup of Burks/Gordo/JSmith/Paul/Fav ???? Ouch. That is a scary lineup that nobody wants to face.

Mutangclan wrote:

I'm not interested in talking about Jimmer again, especially with Burks on this team, who I think will be a player like jimmer, with better defense.

But I am interested in another re-tread, Josh Smith. You can look at the situation in two ways in ATL, either he's a malcontent and trouble maker, or he's tired of mediocrity and no sign of a strong future there. Moving Al Jeff for Smith works money wise, ATL needs a low post scorer and Horford prefers being a PF. Getting Josh in Utah where its more structured, he's not going to be looked at as the man or needed to be the man, and its a fresh start, would be awesome. Not to mention his defensive abilities, rebounding, athleticism and being able to play the SF or PF, is great. Not to mention, who doesn't want to see Utah finally make a big splash???!! Make waves, big moves, look at competing with the best!!

Can you imagine a lineup of Burks/Gordo/JSmith/Paul/Fav ???? Ouch. That is a scary lineup that nobody wants to face.

I hear you, and I'm not even disagreeing (I think Smith is one of the best "talents" in the league) ... just playing devil's advocate for a second. If you take out Smith's name & add in Marvin's name, it sounds almost identical (minus the "malcontent") to what most thought about getting Marv. And while Marvin has been "ok", I wouldn't say that he's been a big difference maker either.

But let's say, just for a second, this trade goes down. Smith, Millsap & Favors on the front line sure would be a helluva strong defensive unit, but can they run a good, structured offense with that group? Smith is a bit wild on offense, Favors isn't the type you can run the team through, and while Sap is plenty capable of putting up 18-20PPG, I still don't think he can be "the man" on offense. The team would have to rely on ball movement, and good team ball (which Smith isn't known for). I just don't know ..... I wish Kanter was more developed, or Favors had a better post game .... then this trade would be even more intriguing.

Also, switching out a "good guy" for a "malcontent" could cause chemistry issues, especially when the players are, arguably, the best players on the team.

Still, if it happened, I think I'd be excited just to see what happens.

Mutangclan wrote:

I'm not interested in talking about Jimmer again, especially with Burks on this team, who I think will be a player like jimmer, with better defense.

But I am interested in another re-tread, Josh Smith. You can look at the situation in two ways in ATL, either he's a malcontent and trouble maker, or he's tired of mediocrity and no sign of a strong future there. Moving Al Jeff for Smith works money wise, ATL needs a low post scorer and Horford prefers being a PF. Getting Josh in Utah where its more structured, he's not going to be looked at as the man or needed to be the man, and its a fresh start, would be awesome. Not to mention his defensive abilities, rebounding, athleticism and being able to play the SF or PF, is great. Not to mention, who doesn't want to see Utah finally make a big splash???!! Make waves, big moves, look at competing with the best!!

Can you imagine a lineup of Burks/Gordo/JSmith/Paul/Fav ???? Ouch. That is a scary lineup that nobody wants to face.

I'd rather have Millsap than Smith. Cheaper. Better. Not a headcase.

The hawks were, are, one of the best teams in the east. Every time a little adversity pops up he starts whining like a baby and playing for himself. No thanks.

TheMagnus wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

I'm not interested in talking about Jimmer again, especially with Burks on this team, who I think will be a player like jimmer, with better defense.

But I am interested in another re-tread, Josh Smith. You can look at the situation in two ways in ATL, either he's a malcontent and trouble maker, or he's tired of mediocrity and no sign of a strong future there. Moving Al Jeff for Smith works money wise, ATL needs a low post scorer and Horford prefers being a PF. Getting Josh in Utah where its more structured, he's not going to be looked at as the man or needed to be the man, and its a fresh start, would be awesome. Not to mention his defensive abilities, rebounding, athleticism and being able to play the SF or PF, is great. Not to mention, who doesn't want to see Utah finally make a big splash???!! Make waves, big moves, look at competing with the best!!

Can you imagine a lineup of Burks/Gordo/JSmith/Paul/Fav ???? Ouch. That is a scary lineup that nobody wants to face.

I'd rather have Millsap than Smith. Cheaper. Better. Not a headcase.

The hawks were, are, one of the best teams in the east. Every time a little adversity pops up he starts whining like a baby and playing for himself. No thanks.

Ok, but in reference to my post, would you rather have Al than Smith?

I really like Jefferson, he seems like a great guy, massive offensive talent and he tries hard, seems to genuinely want to be in Utah and best of all he's clutch. BUT . . . I would prefer to get my offense from my guards and wings and defense from my bigs. If you are going to keep Jefferson, you need to build your offense and defense around him. The Jazz don't do that, the Jazz play Jazz ball. Favors brings defense and rebounding, Kanter would be a great backup, Millsap and Smith would still bring defense and offense from the 4, plus can you imagine a squad of Mo, Hayward, Smith, Millsap and Favors hussleing on D and running the break - especially off turnovers!

Millsap compliments Favors and Kanter more than Jefferson (I don't see Kanter/Jefferson working and I still think Millsap/Jefferson isn't right, I do like the Favors/Jefferson combo though). Smiths ability to play the 3/4, his athletism and rebound compliments them, especially when combined with the outside shooting of Hayward, Mo and Foye at the 1/2 spots.

I would chuck in the GS draft pick to make this happen, purely on what that team could do. Defense wins Championships!

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

I'm not interested in talking about Jimmer again, especially with Burks on this team, who I think will be a player like jimmer, with better defense.

But I am interested in another re-tread, Josh Smith. You can look at the situation in two ways in ATL, either he's a malcontent and trouble maker, or he's tired of mediocrity and no sign of a strong future there. Moving Al Jeff for Smith works money wise, ATL needs a low post scorer and Horford prefers being a PF. Getting Josh in Utah where its more structured, he's not going to be looked at as the man or needed to be the man, and its a fresh start, would be awesome. Not to mention his defensive abilities, rebounding, athleticism and being able to play the SF or PF, is great. Not to mention, who doesn't want to see Utah finally make a big splash???!! Make waves, big moves, look at competing with the best!!

Can you imagine a lineup of Burks/Gordo/JSmith/Paul/Fav ???? Ouch. That is a scary lineup that nobody wants to face.

I'd rather have Millsap than Smith. Cheaper. Better. Not a headcase.

The hawks were, are, one of the best teams in the east. Every time a little adversity pops up he starts whining like a baby and playing for himself. No thanks.

Ok, but in reference to my post, would you rather have Al than Smith?

While that is interesting, I don't think so. I know I've been critical of Al at times, but I really don't think that move makes the Jazz better this season unless a lot of other things also happen.

Basically all of the good things about Josh Smith would have to be realized (great d, dynamic multi-position player, consistent scorer when he attacks the basket), and none of the bad (ball hog, takes bad shots, has a tendency to quit and/or lose focus) in order to make that trade worth it, and I don't think that happens in the real world.

On top of that if we do that we are back to starting 4 guys that don't shoot the three well, we just got smaller in a western conference dominated by teams with quality bigs, and we are trying to shoe-horn another PF into the SF spot (haven't we learned that lesson yet?).

I just don't think it would work.

zero24gravity wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

I'm not interested in talking about Jimmer again, especially with Burks on this team, who I think will be a player like jimmer, with better defense.

But I am interested in another re-tread, Josh Smith. You can look at the situation in two ways in ATL, either he's a malcontent and trouble maker, or he's tired of mediocrity and no sign of a strong future there. Moving Al Jeff for Smith works money wise, ATL needs a low post scorer and Horford prefers being a PF. Getting Josh in Utah where its more structured, he's not going to be looked at as the man or needed to be the man, and its a fresh start, would be awesome. Not to mention his defensive abilities, rebounding, athleticism and being able to play the SF or PF, is great. Not to mention, who doesn't want to see Utah finally make a big splash???!! Make waves, big moves, look at competing with the best!!

Can you imagine a lineup of Burks/Gordo/JSmith/Paul/Fav ???? Ouch. That is a scary lineup that nobody wants to face.

I hear you, and I'm not even disagreeing (I think Smith is one of the best "talents" in the league) ... just playing devil's advocate for a second. If you take out Smith's name & add in Marvin's name, it sounds almost identical (minus the "malcontent") to what most thought about getting Marv. And while Marvin has been "ok", I wouldn't say that he's been a big difference maker either.

But let's say, just for a second, this trade goes down. Smith, Millsap & Favors on the front line sure would be a helluva strong defensive unit, but can they run a good, structured offense with that group? Smith is a bit wild on offense, Favors isn't the type you can run the team through, and while Sap is plenty capable of putting up 18-20PPG, I still don't think he can be "the man" on offense. The team would have to rely on ball movement, and good team ball (which Smith isn't known for). I just don't know ..... I wish Kanter was more developed, or Favors had a better post game .... then this trade would be even more intriguing.

Also, switching out a "good guy" for a "malcontent" could cause chemistry issues, especially when the players are, arguably, the best players on the team.

Still, if it happened, I think I'd be excited just to see what happens.

This is a great post.

And it should be noted that people often confuse the "Defense wins Championships" mantra. Scoring more points than your opponent wins championships. The mantra is better rendered "No Defense, No Championship", and the truth of the matter is that if you aren't among the best in the league at both O and D you probably aren't a contender.

Josh Smith would be great if he could make like Iggy and defer the offense to someone else, but he seems to think he is "the man", and as fragile as his psyche seems to be I have a hard time believing he'd be willing to accept being just another option in the Jazz balanced attack.

Tarakaan wrote:

I really like Jefferson, he seems like a great guy, massive offensive talent and he tries hard, seems to genuinely want to be in Utah and best of all he's clutch. BUT . . . I would prefer to get my offense from my guards and wings and defense from my bigs. If you are going to keep Jefferson, you need to build your offense and defense around him. The Jazz don't do that, the Jazz play Jazz ball. Favors brings defense and rebounding, Kanter would be a great backup, Millsap and Smith would still bring defense and offense from the 4, plus can you imagine a squad of Mo, Hayward, Smith, Millsap and Favors hussleing on D and running the break - especially off turnovers!

Millsap compliments Favors and Kanter more than Jefferson (I don't see Kanter/Jefferson working and I still think Millsap/Jefferson isn't right, I do like the Favors/Jefferson combo though). Smiths ability to play the 3/4, his athletism and rebound compliments them, especially when combined with the outside shooting of Hayward, Mo and Foye at the 1/2 spots.

I would chuck in the GS draft pick to make this happen, purely on what that team could do. Defense wins Championships!

This is a great post


Josh Smith has also never had PG, nor has he ever played in a structured offense. It was all Joe Johnson, first, then everyone else second. Josh Smith in my opinion, is actually a great slashing small forward. And if he actually had a PG for once, he'd be great.
And Josh Smith you know Magnus, is more of a SF that Paul is. And he's also less of a PF.

Another thing about the Josh negatives, is that that team has never had a leader. JJ never spoke, and has anybody ever even heard a word from Horford?? Quick name all Josh's coaches....Bunch of coaches, no on court leadership, nothing. The offense there was always clear-out type of offense, so he did the same thing JJ did, just didn't hit as often. Really it was either JJ, then Al and then Josh, in no particular order. They didn't coach those guys, just said go get a bucket, and depended on their individual skills. He needs a coach and teammates to put him in a position to succeed, and also to use him properly. He never has been....Lastly, Josh Smith has been suspended now, and had frustrations etc, but lets not act like he's Demarcus Cousins.

As for the outside shooting, we have Mo/GH/Foye who are all very very good 3pt shooters, and Marv who isn't bad. Burks has shown that hes improving there too. This team has addressed that.

Lastly, wouldn't you be freaking annoyed playing for those Hawks all these years???

Mutangclan wrote:

Tarakaan wrote:

I really like Jefferson, he seems like a great guy, massive offensive talent and he tries hard, seems to genuinely want to be in Utah and best of all he's clutch. BUT . . . I would prefer to get my offense from my guards and wings and defense from my bigs. If you are going to keep Jefferson, you need to build your offense and defense around him. The Jazz don't do that, the Jazz play Jazz ball. Favors brings defense and rebounding, Kanter would be a great backup, Millsap and Smith would still bring defense and offense from the 4, plus can you imagine a squad of Mo, Hayward, Smith, Millsap and Favors hussleing on D and running the break - especially off turnovers!

Millsap compliments Favors and Kanter more than Jefferson (I don't see Kanter/Jefferson working and I still think Millsap/Jefferson isn't right, I do like the Favors/Jefferson combo though). Smiths ability to play the 3/4, his athletism and rebound compliments them, especially when combined with the outside shooting of Hayward, Mo and Foye at the 1/2 spots.

I would chuck in the GS draft pick to make this happen, purely on what that team could do. Defense wins Championships!

This is a great post


Josh Smith has also never had PG, nor has he ever played in a structured offense. It was all Joe Johnson, first, then everyone else second. Josh Smith in my opinion, is actually a great slashing small forward. And if he actually had a PG for once, he'd be great.
And Josh Smith you know Magnus, is more of a SF that Paul is. And he's also less of a PF.

Another thing about the Josh negatives, is that that team has never had a leader. JJ never spoke, and has anybody ever even heard a word from Horford?? Quick name all Josh's coaches....Bunch of coaches, no on court leadership, nothing. The offense there was always clear-out type of offense, so he did the same thing JJ did, just didn't hit as often. Really it was either JJ, then Al and then Josh, in no particular order. They didn't coach those guys, just said go get a bucket, and depended on their individual skills. He needs a coach and teammates to put him in a position to succeed, and also to use him properly. He never has been....Lastly, Josh Smith has been suspended now, and had frustrations etc, but lets not act like he's Demarcus Cousins.

As for the outside shooting, we have Mo/GH/Foye who are all very very good 3pt shooters, and Marv who isn't bad. Burks has shown that hes improving there too. This team has addressed that.

Lastly, wouldn't you be freaking annoyed playing for those Hawks all these years???

Dude, the Hawks have been just as good as the Jazz over the last 5 years, they had some really solid teams, and he's only had 2 coaches in his career, Mike Woodson and Larry Drew. He's been in the league 9 YEARS, that's a long time to be playing in a leadership vacuum, if he's supposed to be so great, and so competitive, how many years do you want to give him before he stops acting like a baby and steps up and starts acting like a leader? And the fact is he acted EXACTLY like Cousins did, Cousins said all of the right things and he came back and has been killing it, but the fact that the two draw comparisons is pretty much all I need to know.

So, like I said, no thanks.

16.5 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.3 spg and 2.3 bpg this year......man, I'm just saying, that, on a mediocre team? I will take that for Al in a heartbeat.
And I definitely believe that Josh Smith, more than anyone, would benefit massively from a fresh start. I do believe, I do!
It's all hope anyway, I realize that.

Sidenote:

According to ESPN's Chad Ford, "virtually every GM in the league believes the Jazz are moving one of their two big men" by the Feb. 21 trade deadline.
This makes plenty of sense. In-house breakout candidate Derrick Favors is chomping at the bit for a starting role and both Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap are in the final year of their contracts. Ford considers Big Al more likely to be traded than franchise-favorite Paul Millsap. The time for fantasy owners to stash Favors is now. He's averaging 8.7 points, 6.1 rebound and 1.5 blocks in just 21.6 minutes per game this season.

I went to see a Jimmer thread, and a Josh Smith thread broke out.

thejazzkickazz wrote:

I went to see a Jimmer thread, and a Josh Smith thread broke out.

Hah, yea, lucky you, more exciting