GTS Milwaukee @ Utah 2/6/13

Who leads the Jazz in fouls?

zero24gravity wrote:

Who leads the Jazz in fouls?

jazz by 8

Favors

Sry Roms change jazz 9 Sap!

I don't know why, but I'm worried about this game. I just don't like how things have been going the past few games. Gordon is probably out few at least a couple more games (my guess is he won't play until MIN or possibly after the All Star break)...

Milwaukee by 4.

Favors with the most fouls

Jazz by 3, Burks

Richardale wrote:

jazz 8 Favors

Make youir own pick

Jennings and Ellis seems like nightmare for the Jazz to deal with. Milwaukee is nothing spectacular but just solid team which will give Jazz all kind of problems.
Bucks by 9. Burks with most fouls.

Jazz by 10 in an ugly game. Millsap fouls out.

jazz by 7

Jazz+7; Millsap

Hey Ty, I have a great idea!!! Let's pull Enes after 10 minutes of play with 13 pts and 7 rbs, for no known reason. Oh!? Enes is gassed!? If Ty stays to pattern we won't see Kanter for the rest of the night.

Kanter is ready to blow up. 6-6 shooting, 13 pts, 7 rebounds (4 off), 2 blocked shots in only 9 minutes? That's insane.

I'm starting to think that Jefferson is expendable. It's just...can Kanter do this during clutch time?

thejazzkickazz wrote:

Kanter is ready to blow up. 6-6 shooting, 13 pts, 7 rebounds (4 off), 2 blocked shots in only 9 minutes? That's insane.

I'm starting to think that Jefferson is expendable. It's just...can Kanter do this during clutch time?

Never know with Al here. What time he played tonight he looked like a Allstar player.

First, in my defense, I would have picked the Jazz if I would have realized Sanders wasn't playing.

Second, despite the win, Corban was a HUGE disappointment AGAIN. What the hell do Favors & Kanter have to do to "earn" court time?

Favors has 9 points, 11 rebounds, 3 blocks, 2 assists, along with a +9 ... and he gets less than 22 minutes?
Kanter goes 7-9 from the floor for 17 points, 9 rebounds, 5 blocks, 2 assists & is +8. His reward? A measly 17 minutes!


This is tragic. Really, what do these guys have to do? They were completely dominating the Bucks. Even the biggest Corban supporter won't be able to talk his way out of this.

After the first quarter, Al wasn't bad either, so I can understand he didn't need to be benched, but damn. Ride the young guys when they are hot. Build the confidence. Show them you value their efforts. I get more and more concerned with every passing game that these guys, especially Favors, is going to want no part of staying in Utah when FA time comes.

... on the posistive side, DC got a good run & responded with the best +/- on the team in 30 minutes (+18).

Jazz won by 14
Foye had the most fouls

MTJazz wrote:

Hey Ty, I have a great idea!!! Let's pull Enes after 10 minutes of play with 13 pts and 7 rbs, for no known reason. Oh!? Enes is gassed!? If Ty stays to pattern we won't see Kanter for the rest of the night.

Actulally, it is Sloan know-how: when young big played too well - yank him ASAP!

zero24gravity wrote:

First, in my defense, I would have picked the Jazz if I would have realized Sanders wasn't playing.

Second, despite the win, Corban was a HUGE disappointment AGAIN. What the hell do Favors & Kanter have to do to "earn" court time?

Favors has 9 points, 11 rebounds, 3 blocks, 2 assists, along with a +9 ... and he gets less than 22 minutes?
Kanter goes 7-9 from the floor for 17 points, 9 rebounds, 5 blocks, 2 assists & is +8. His reward? A measly 17 minutes!


This is tragic. Really, what do these guys have to do? They were completely dominating the Bucks. Even the biggest Corban supporter won't be able to talk his way out of this.

After the first quarter, Al wasn't bad either, so I can understand he didn't need to be benched, but damn. Ride the young guys when they are hot. Build the confidence. Show them you value their efforts. I get more and more concerned with every passing game that these guys, especially Favors, is going to want no part of staying in Utah when FA time comes.

... on the posistive side, DC got a good run & responded with the best +/- on the team in 30 minutes (+18).

Jazz won by 14
Foye had the most fouls

Just a log jam, plain and simple. Paul had a phenomenal night, and so did Al. Kanter had a phenomenal night, and so did Favors. I mean, this is one thing I dont fault Corbin for, they all played great, so who sits? Kanter did his damage early and often and needed to come out for a breather. But whoever came back in for him played great too.
Last night I dont blame Corbin for any rotational stuff. Kanter is my boy, AND I'VE SAID HE'LL BE GREAT EVER SINCE THE EUROGAMES (jic someone else is reading but he hasn't been as consistent as Paul or Al. UnderKanter did look phenomenal offensively though didn't he? Jumpers, reb and tough follows in traffic, running baby hooks, free throws. Great great stuff. Great draft pick!
So all good last night.

zero24gravity wrote:

First, in my defense, I would have picked the Jazz if I would have realized Sanders wasn't playing.

Second, despite the win, Corban was a HUGE disappointment AGAIN. What the hell do Favors & Kanter have to do to "earn" court time?

Favors has 9 points, 11 rebounds, 3 blocks, 2 assists, along with a +9 ... and he gets less than 22 minutes?
Kanter goes 7-9 from the floor for 17 points, 9 rebounds, 5 blocks, 2 assists & is +8. His reward? A measly 17 minutes!


This is tragic. Really, what do these guys have to do? They were completely dominating the Bucks. Even the biggest Corban supporter won't be able to talk his way out of this.

After the first quarter, Al wasn't bad either, so I can understand he didn't need to be benched, but damn. Ride the young guys when they are hot. Build the confidence. Show them you value their efforts. I get more and more concerned with every passing game that these guys, especially Favors, is going to want no part of staying in Utah when FA time comes.

... on the posistive side, DC got a good run & responded with the best +/- on the team in 30 minutes (+18).

Jazz won by 14
Foye had the most fouls

Agreed. Here is my take on this. We KNOW either or both Paul and Al are gone next year. We also know the FO has basically said, "Playoffs or bust". So, how to have it both ways, (the future plus now?) Simple. When games are in Jazz control, even if Paul and Al are playing well, give Favors and Kanter more tick. If they start blowing leads, not rebounding, not scoring, not playing D, pull them out. But, on nights like last night, Corbin had a perfect opportunity to use their young legs with more minutes, confidence building minutes. In the meantime, Al and Paul get more rest in a long ass season, not a bad thing at all.

MTJazz wrote:

Agreed. Here is my take on this. We KNOW either or both Paul and Al are gone next year. We also know the FO has basically said, "Playoffs or bust". So, how to have it both ways, (the future plus now?) Simple. When games are in Jazz control, even if Paul and Al are playing well, give Favors and Kanter more tick. If they start blowing leads, not rebounding, not scoring, not playing D, pull them out. But, on nights like last night, Corbin had a perfect opportunity to use their young legs with more minutes, confidence building minutes. In the meantime, Al and Paul get more rest in a long ass season, not a bad thing at all.

So sitting Al and Paul now to lower their value on the market makes sense?

Mutangclan wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

Agreed. Here is my take on this. We KNOW either or both Paul and Al are gone next year. We also know the FO has basically said, "Playoffs or bust". So, how to have it both ways, (the future plus now?) Simple. When games are in Jazz control, even if Paul and Al are playing well, give Favors and Kanter more tick. If they start blowing leads, not rebounding, not scoring, not playing D, pull them out. But, on nights like last night, Corbin had a perfect opportunity to use their young legs with more minutes, confidence building minutes. In the meantime, Al and Paul get more rest in a long ass season, not a bad thing at all.

So sitting Al and Paul now to lower their value on the market makes sense?

Mu, do you really think that other GM's will think that all of a sudden Al & Paul aren't good players because the Jazz decide to give the young guys more burn? Al & Paul are established. Every GM in the league knows who they are, what they can do & what they can't do. No way that would affect their trade value IMO. The "showcasing" is for players like, say Alec Burks, who haven't had a chance to show their stuff, so the team gives him more PT in hopes they can find a buyer or raise their value. (In no way do I hope that is what is going on with Alec right now, but the thought has crossed my mind).

I don't think those two should be sat on the bench, or even given a lesser role. But like I've talked about & MT said, "on nights like last night, Corbin had a perfect opportunity to use their young legs with more minutes, confidence building minutes. In the meantime, Al and Paul get more rest in a long ass season, not a bad thing at all."

zero24gravity wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

Agreed. Here is my take on this. We KNOW either or both Paul and Al are gone next year. We also know the FO has basically said, "Playoffs or bust". So, how to have it both ways, (the future plus now?) Simple. When games are in Jazz control, even if Paul and Al are playing well, give Favors and Kanter more tick. If they start blowing leads, not rebounding, not scoring, not playing D, pull them out. But, on nights like last night, Corbin had a perfect opportunity to use their young legs with more minutes, confidence building minutes. In the meantime, Al and Paul get more rest in a long ass season, not a bad thing at all.

So sitting Al and Paul now to lower their value on the market makes sense?

Mu, do you really think that other GM's will think that all of a sudden Al & Paul aren't good players because the Jazz decide to give the young guys more burn? Al & Paul are established. Every GM in the league knows who they are, what they can do & what they can't do. No way that would affect their trade value IMO. The "showcasing" is for players like, say Alec Burks, who haven't had a chance to show their stuff, so the team gives him more PT in hopes they can find a buyer or raise their value. (In no way do I hope that is what is going on with Alec right now, but the thought has crossed my mind).

I don't think those two should be sat on the bench, or even given a lesser role. But like I've talked about & MT said, "on nights like last night, Corbin had a perfect opportunity to use their young legs with more minutes, confidence building minutes. In the meantime, Al and Paul get more rest in a long ass season, not a bad thing at all."

Yes and no. I think this is a "what have you done for me lately" league. If other teams see Al and Paul sitting, they're going to say sure, those guys are good, but why are we going to give up X when you aren't playing them?? And lest we forget, Utah is in a playoff battle. The team directly behind them beat them by 45pts the other day. This team needs wins, and however that needs to be done.

And nights like last night, to me, were that it wasn't ever quite out of reach it seemed. Jazz looked great for stretches, but had lulls. It wasn't a dominating performance from start to finish.

More than anything, we're two weeks to the trade deadline. And like I said in the other, if this was AFTER the trade deadline passed, then yea, I would be changing my tune a bit. But I have no doubts that the Jazz phones have been busy, both ways, and they need to keep their tradeable players looking as great as possible. Especially because what is NOT in doubt, is that Fav/Kanter are here for a long time, and are getting their turn very soon. So keep things going as is, Jazz did win last night after all. So keep going toward the playoffs, make sure your assets look as good as possible because they very well may be wanted by another team. And your young bigs keep working, show you can be consistent because the team will be depending on them very soon.

Mutangclan wrote:

Yes and no. I think this is a "what have you done for me lately" league. If other teams see Al and Paul sitting, they're going to say sure, those guys are good, but why are we going to give up X when you aren't playing them?? And lest we forget, Utah is in a playoff battle. The team directly behind them beat them by 45pts the other day. This team needs wins, and however that needs to be done.

And nights like last night, to me, were that it wasn't ever quite out of reach it seemed. Jazz looked great for stretches, but had lulls. It wasn't a dominating performance from start to finish.

More than anything, we're two weeks to the trade deadline. And like I said in the other, if this was AFTER the trade deadline passed, then yea, I would be changing my tune a bit. But I have no doubts that the Jazz phones have been busy, both ways, and they need to keep their tradeable players looking as great as possible. Especially because what is NOT in doubt, is that Fav/Kanter are here for a long time, and are getting their turn very soon. So keep things going as is, Jazz did win last night after all. So keep going toward the playoffs, make sure your assets look as good as possible because they very well may be wanted by another team. And your young bigs keep working, show you can be consistent because the team will be depending on them very soon.

I see what you are saying about the pre/post trade deadline playing time decisions.

Still not fully agreeing, but I can see where you are coming from.

zero24gravity wrote:

I don't think those two should be sat on the bench, or even given a lesser role. But like I've talked about & MT said, "on nights like last night, Corbin had a perfect opportunity to use their young legs with more minutes, confidence building minutes. In the meantime, Al and Paul get more rest in a long ass season, not a bad thing at all."

Corbin did use them for extended minutes last night, at least compared to his recent rotations. I also think he was good and ready to let them finnish out the game but the Bucks went back to their starters and trimmed the lead to 10.

I think the bigs minutes are a non-issue, Kanter is getting "quality" minutes, even when he doesn't play much, and both he and Favors are getting enough minutes to facillitate their development. Hell, it's not just their games but also their bodies that are still developing, and no amount of burn is going to accellerate that process. Besides, with all of that talent, there's really no way to screw it up.

The real issue here is the difference in the results with Burks playing point and Carroll playing starter minutes. This needs to be talked about some more.

Just look at the difference between this game and the previous 4 games. The Jazz struggled in all 4 games, unable to put away bad teams like the Hornets and Kings much less win by double digits, and unable to get a victory over an injury depleated Portland team that lacked depth before the inuries. More that that they just looked stale, the opposing team did not play that well in any of those 4 games and we still almost managed to lose them all.

Contrast that with last night....

We started with more of the same stale play from the starters, but this time when the second unit comes in to inject energy the energy doesn't fade. Is that because the starters decided to pick it up? That was the perception, it wasn't the truth. No, it was because the ineffective players (Foye, Marvin, Watson, and Tinsley) were replaced by effective ones. The results were a game that wasn't really in question in the second half and a double digit victory over a likely playoff team.

And it's not even like DMC and Burks played that well individually, but they were still better than the guys they replaced, and not just in this game, but a below average outing for them was still better than the guys they replaced on an average night.

This is what we've been talking about here for weeks, and it was great to see it actually executed.

I pray to the gods of Jazz basketball that the Holy Spirit of James Naismith will impress upon Corbin to keep Burks as the backup PG untill Mo comes back (and maybe even after), and that on most nights Demarre Carroll and Gordon Hayward should be playing as much or more as their veteran counterparts. AMEN!

TheMagnus wrote:

The real issue here is the difference in the results with Burks playing point and Carroll playing starter minutes. This needs to be talked about some more.

... AMEN!

That is exactly my point. Kanter situation cna be suboptimal, but no big danger there. Burk and Carrol stuff is rather scary... though the situation is marginally better now...

but if - or rather when - injured players will be back, and youngsters PT will go to good old tiny level, and team play will go way worse,

then it will be real disaster for team chemistry.

TheMagnus wrote:

We started with more of the same stale play from the starters, but this time when the second unit comes in to inject energy the energy doesn't fade. Is that because the starters decided to pick it up? That was the perception, it wasn't the truth. No, it was because the ineffective players (Foye, Marvin, Watson, and Tinsley) were replaced by effective ones. The results were a game that wasn't really in question in the second half and a double digit victory over a likely playoff team.

And it's not even like DMC and Burks played that well individually, but they were still better than the guys they replaced, and not just in this game, but a below average outing for them was still better than the guys they replaced on an average night.

This is what we've been talking about here for weeks, and it was great to see it actually executed.

Yea, this is just adding to what you said, but DC came in WAY earlier than usual. And the difference was immediate. I was posting as I watched it and Burks/DC/Fav/Paul and I think it was Kanter were tearing up the Bucks. But mostly, it was DC coming in much earlier than normal, and his energy and skill set changed the whole tone of the game.

Looking forward to the next game.

TheMagnus wrote:

Corbin did use them for extended minutes last night, at least compared to his recent rotations. I also think he was good and ready to let them finnish out the game but the Bucks went back to their starters and trimmed the lead to 10.

Enes played a bit more than he has over the past handfull of games, but only ended up playing about 3 minutes more than his season average. So on a career night, when he was DOMINATING, he got THREE minutes ... THREE.

Derrick pretty much played right at his season average, so there really weren't any "extended minutes" given.

Also, you said, "he was good and ready to let them finnish out the game but the Bucks went back to their starters and trimmed the lead to 10" .... but who was in the game allowing that lead to be trimmed to 10? ....not Enes & Derrick.

So the argument is; the two guys who built the lead couldn't get back into the game to close is out, because the guys who lost the lead had to stay in the game?