GTS Charlotee @ Utah 3/1/13

TheMagnus wrote:

Kanter didn't put up a double-double, he put up a dub-dub...23 pts, 22 rebounds...wow.

Here's a list of players that have done a dub dub in the last 3 years...

Dwight Howard
Zach Randolph
Kevin Love
DeMarcus Cousins
Joakim Noah
Ersan Illiasova
Al Jefferson
David Lee
Al Horford
Tim Duncan
Blake Griffin
Andrew Bynum
Dirk Nowizki
Anderson Verejao
Nicola Vucevic

Here's the list of players age 20 or younger to do it in the past 30 years...

Shaq
Dwight Howard
Dejuan Blair
Joe Smith

That's some pretty good company...

Tonight was a great example of what happens when a guy finally gets enough minutes to really show full potential. Honestly, Kanter has had many a night when he came out and got 6-10 pts and 4 or 5 rebounds in about 12 minutes than sat the rest of the game. There was nothing fluky looking about his play tonight - he just finally got the full audition. Suddenly the whole "log jam" thing rears its head again for me. On the downside of the evening -- Favors. He can't seem to stay out of foul trouble, (becoming an issue more and more) and his offensive game is really looking limited, especially compared to Kanter who was hitting jumpers, put backs, jams and showing some nice footwork and touch.

Genius move tonight by Ty Corbin, sitting Al Jeff and Milly in favor of the Underkanter and Favors. I think the whole thing about starting Watson was a smokescreen until he could unveil this big surprise.

And playing Jeremy Evans big minutes. Genius move! And you Corbin haters thought old Ty didn't have anything up his sleeve. You silly people.

Richardale wrote:

Richardale wrote:

Whare's are anti Kanter gone?

See where his boy Jonas had 4 points and 9 rebs tonight? Sure wish we had those stats on our team tonight. Both getting to start game.

Yeah, man. Kanter nearly had more rebounds (22) than the entire Bobcat team (24). Not bad for a guy who will be out of the league by next year.

thejazzkickazz wrote:

Richardale wrote:

Richardale wrote:

Whare's are anti Kanter gone?

See where his boy Jonas had 4 points and 9 rebs tonight? Sure wish we had those stats on our team tonight. Both getting to start game.

Yeah, man. Kanter nearly had more rebounds (22) than the entire Bobcat team (24). Not bad for a guy who will be out of the league by next year.

Really i'm not sure what CJ was smoking when he said this kid will be out of the league by next year? Crazy talk and wishful thinking Jonas would out shine Enes. I bet there not many GMs in the league that would take Jonas over Kanter, if any?

Richardale wrote:

thejazzkickazz wrote:

Richardale wrote:

Richardale wrote:

Whare's are anti Kanter gone?

See where his boy Jonas had 4 points and 9 rebs tonight? Sure wish we had those stats on our team tonight. Both getting to start game.

Yeah, man. Kanter nearly had more rebounds (22) than the entire Bobcat team (24). Not bad for a guy who will be out of the league by next year.

Really i'm not sure what CJ was smoking when he said this kid will be out of the league by next year? Crazy talk and wishful thinking Jonas would out shine Enes. I bet there not many GMs in the league that would take Jonas over Kanter, if any?

1) There would still be some who would continue to take Favors over Kanter...but honestly, I don't know why. And he was still the liveliest, most active big on the floor at the end of the game. He absolutely outworks other bigs. Awesome.

ii) How poorly-constructed (or just weird) is this roster? We keep hearing "logjam of bigs" while at the same time Kanter has to play extra in a blowout because who was his replacement off the bench?? Right. We didn't have one. And Evans at C is not an answer. We have both too many bigs and too few.

C) Nice to see Evans play well, but he's got a bad "tweener" problem: WAY too little and scrawny for PF, not skilled enough for SF.

42) Hayward looked good AGAIN. His defense is very rarely bad, usually very good and sometimes absolutely stellar.

9) DC looked good AGAIN. Paired w/ Hayward, they're more than half of what we need to be a good defensive team...as was shown tonight.

d) Burks is getting better and better on both ends of the court.

xi) Play of the night was Kanter knowing his 15-footer was coming off the front of the rim and following it in for a slam over/between 2 Generals. Wait...it isn't the Charlotte Generals?? Didn't I see Dermarre throw a bucket of confetti on a kid?? No? Don't know what I was thinin'...

1) While I think people are wrong when they automatically assume that the presence of a veteran and a youing player at the same position means there's "mentoring" going on, Kanter clearly HAS learned from Big Al, and loves the guy. This is that 'character thing' helping the team. And it makes our guys, our team, easy to root for and easy to stay loyal to. Now if Corbin weren't such a bonehead...

I hate to be a downer, but I came to the conclusion tonight that the Jazz need to decide on Al OR Milsap and trade Favors. I'm completely unimpressed with his progress or lack of. He has had 10x the opportunity that Kanter has had and he constantly underachieves! I guess the Jazz could keep him as the third big, but Kanter deserves the playing time that Favors is getting. I get that Favors is a good defender, but he is just horrible on offense and he doesn't seem to have a very high basketball IQ or a good feel for the game. I think the Jazz should probably look to sign Paul, I think his game would mesh better with Kanters than Al's would.

Tonight also just confirmed to me what a terrible coach Corbin is. He is obviously wasting the talents of several players on this team. Marvin should be a 10-15 min a night guy. He has done a horrible job in deciding who plays and who doesn't. DC should no way in hell EVER get a DNP. Neither should Burks. Anyone on this team that has had any kind of breakout, has been because Corbin was forced to play them because of injuries, not because of any smart coaching moves. To make matters worse, when the injured player returns, the young guy that had a breakout goes back to riding the bench. Corbin's incompetence has probably cost the Jazz 10 games this season, if not more.

A game like this should leave us Jazz fans feeling great, but for me it's depressing, because it shows a glimpse of what could be, but won't. Would Enes average 20-20? No, but he could be a 20-10 guy. Marvin is just a complete waste. I really think the Jazz management F'd up big time, by not doing a real coaching search when Jerry left.

Crunchtime1 wrote:

Hi scorers were Kanter and Carroll at 23 and 19. And how about Kanter's 22 rebounds? Marvin Williams had one point.

The future looks good with our young guys, but Coach Tyrone Corbin sucks imho. i think we have the players to have a better win loss record than we have. I would call up Nate McMillan.

Agreed. Utah has this "thing" about keeping it all in the family, which is good and bad. In this case, they hired someone who had never even been an assistant coach. Thats pretty ridiculous, unless you're the Bobcats. I said it then I was worried about that, and now it's showing itself.

By the way, ask an Objective Expert about UnderKanters game; doesn't matter, he's going to be a bust and most likely end up in the D league. I've been wondering about my good friend/man-boy lover Calgary, and where he's gone. But then I looked at how unimpressive JV has been in all those starts, and it makes sense CC isn't coming round here.

Not surprised about Kanter tonight. Coined him UnderKanter last year, said he's a stud already for what he had shown, said he's going to be very good. Well look at that, he is a STUD. You ready for the crow yet Calgary??? Or wanna wait till summer for some good eats?

So what are Corbins moves now?? Marvin couldn't even get a decent game against the Bobcats, Watson was terrible right? WHAT WILL TYROOOOOOOOOOONE DO?

Jazz won by 30!
Carroll led all bench players in scoring.

Romoholic wrote:

I hate to be a downer, but I came to the conclusion tonight that the Jazz need to decide on Al OR Milsap and trade Favors. I'm completely unimpressed with his progress or lack of. He has had 10x the opportunity that Kanter has had and he constantly underachieves! I guess the Jazz could keep him as the third big, but Kanter deserves the playing time that Favors is getting. I get that Favors is a good defender, but he is just horrible on offense and he doesn't seem to have a very high basketball IQ or a good feel for the game. I think the Jazz should probably look to sign Paul, I think his game would mesh better with Kanters than Al's would.

Tonight also just confirmed to me what a terrible coach Corbin is. He is obviously wasting the talents of several players on this team. Marvin should be a 10-15 min a night guy. He has done a horrible job in deciding who plays and who doesn't. DC should no way in hell EVER get a DNP. Neither should Burks. Anyone on this team that has had any kind of breakout, has been because Corbin was forced to play them because of injuries, not because of any smart coaching moves. To make matters worse, when the injured player returns, the young guy that had a breakout goes back to riding the bench. Corbin's incompetence has probably cost the Jazz 10 games this season, if not more.

A game like this should leave us Jazz fans feeling great, but for me it's depressing, because it shows a glimpse of what could be, but won't. Would Enes average 20-20? No, but he could be a 20-10 guy. Marvin is just a complete waste. I really think the Jazz management F'd up big time, by not doing a real coaching search when Jerry left.

Couple things here. First of all, it was the Bobcats, worst team in the NBA, no reason to get too excited. I'd say the biggest takeaway is that our young guys are better than theirs and the Jazz will probably always be better than the Bobcats.

Second, no way some lineup tweaks result in 10 more wins, maybe 2-3.

Thirdly, I only watched the first half, but I really liked what I saw out of Favors. He made some sweet moves in the post, asserted himself defensively, and I thought played pretty well. I think foul trouble limited him a lot, and once Kanter got going he rightly deferred. I love the way those two work together, one or two more years of experience and they will be light years ahead of Millsap and Jefferson defensively.

IMO the Jazz would be a better team right now if Jefferson was replaced with Favors, but I know I'm in the minority around here on that feeling, heck after last night I might be in the minority thinking Favors is a better overall player than Kanter, but the more I watch the Jazz and look at the team numbers the more I really really... really really really...really really want to see the Jazz let Jefferson go this summer and move forward with Millsap, Jefferson, Kanter, and Evans.

Speaking of Evans, that guy just flat out gets it done when he's in the game. I know he's got his shortcomings, but by all counts he's been working hard on his jumper, he's a freak athlete, and it's clear he can produce in most situations he's put in, I think he's worthy of a turn in the rotation.

TheMagnus wrote:

IMO the Jazz would be a better team right now if Jefferson was replaced with Favors, but I know I'm in the minority around here on that feeling, heck after last night I might be in the minority thinking Favors is a better overall player than Kanter, but the more I watch the Jazz and look at the team numbers the more I really really... really really really...really really want to see the Jazz let Jefferson go this summer and move forward with Millsap, Jefferson, Kanter, and Evans.

Speaking of Evans, that guy just flat out gets it done when he's in the game. I know he's got his shortcomings, but by all counts he's been working hard on his jumper, he's a freak athlete, and it's clear he can produce in most situations he's put in, I think he's worthy of a turn in the rotation.

It really was just the Bobcats, horrendous front line. So this has got to be tempered some. It was a good win, and showed our talent. But really was just a decent win that we 100% should have gotten.

You've got one more on your side Mag, I am converted. But I'll say this, its only after seeing the team growth this year, that I want to let Al go now. After last year, I didn't think there was enough talent and scoring ability. Now, there is. Let Al go this summer.

Funny, I didn't even see the game, and it's too bad I guess. But you guys remember, Favors was never wanted for his offensive game. And that was the biggest reason they drafted UnderKanter so that he was the O, and Fav was the D. Its going to be great. Couple years from now, Kanter goes 20/12 nightly, while Fav goes 12/12/3 nightly. Going to be NASTY.

I was going to put the same thing on here, that I'm more surprised by Evans than anyone last night. I'd be fine if Marv didn't take his option, and Jeremy was put into the 9th spot on the rotation.

So yea, I agree Mag, going forward with that crew. And all the money this summer to spend, I want to see Foye brought back, or Korver in his spot. Let Al go, bring back Paul, go hunting for a PG and/or bring back Mo.

What happens on Monday against the Bucks??? Al and Paul probably back. DC showed for the millionth time how good he is, and the EXACT type of line/game that makes him good 19/3/3steals and hustle.....could Tyrone make the move?

TheMagnus wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

I hate to be a downer, but I came to the conclusion tonight that the Jazz need to decide on Al OR Milsap and trade Favors. I'm completely unimpressed with his progress or lack of. He has had 10x the opportunity that Kanter has had and he constantly underachieves! I guess the Jazz could keep him as the third big, but Kanter deserves the playing time that Favors is getting. I get that Favors is a good defender, but he is just horrible on offense and he doesn't seem to have a very high basketball IQ or a good feel for the game. I think the Jazz should probably look to sign Paul, I think his game would mesh better with Kanters than Al's would.

Tonight also just confirmed to me what a terrible coach Corbin is. He is obviously wasting the talents of several players on this team. Marvin should be a 10-15 min a night guy. He has done a horrible job in deciding who plays and who doesn't. DC should no way in hell EVER get a DNP. Neither should Burks. Anyone on this team that has had any kind of breakout, has been because Corbin was forced to play them because of injuries, not because of any smart coaching moves. To make matters worse, when the injured player returns, the young guy that had a breakout goes back to riding the bench. Corbin's incompetence has probably cost the Jazz 10 games this season, if not more.

A game like this should leave us Jazz fans feeling great, but for me it's depressing, because it shows a glimpse of what could be, but won't. Would Enes average 20-20? No, but he could be a 20-10 guy. Marvin is just a complete waste. I really think the Jazz management F'd up big time, by not doing a real coaching search when Jerry left.

Couple things here. First of all, it was the Bobcats, worst team in the NBA, no reason to get too excited. I'd say the biggest takeaway is that our young guys are better than theirs and the Jazz will probably always be better than the Bobcats.

Second, no way some lineup tweaks result in 10 more wins, maybe 2-3.

Thirdly, I only watched the first half, but I really liked what I saw out of Favors. He made some sweet moves in the post, asserted himself defensively, and I thought played pretty well. I think foul trouble limited him a lot, and once Kanter got going he rightly deferred. I love the way those two work together, one or two more years of experience and they will be light years ahead of Millsap and Jefferson defensively.

IMO the Jazz would be a better team right now if Jefferson was replaced with Favors, but I know I'm in the minority around here on that feeling, heck after last night I might be in the minority thinking Favors is a better overall player than Kanter, but the more I watch the Jazz and look at the team numbers the more I really really... really really really...really really want to see the Jazz let Jefferson go this summer and move forward with Millsap, Jefferson, Kanter, and Evans.

Speaking of Evans, that guy just flat out gets it done when he's in the game. I know he's got his shortcomings, but by all counts he's been working hard on his jumper, he's a freak athlete, and it's clear he can produce in most situations he's put in, I think he's worthy of a turn in the rotation.

Yeah it was the Bobcats, but that doesn't take anything away from Kanter's play last night! How many guys have put up 20-20 on the Bobcats this season?

I also have no doubt in my mind that with a better coach we would be around 10 games better. It's not just a few minor rotation tweaks either. It the basic idea that Corbin doesn't ride the hot hand and will throw the "vets" back in anytime the bench gets us a lead!

I'll give you the fact that the young guys are not going to all come together like they did last night, but they showed that they deserve more time than they are getting. It's pretty obvious that Kanter is better than Favors right now, with a shit ton less experience!

Romoholic wrote:

I'll give you the fact that the young guys are not going to all come together like they did last night, but they showed that they deserve more time than they are getting. It's pretty obvious that Kanter is better than Favors right now, with a shit ton less experience!

Yeah, Mags, I think it is obvious at this point, despite your affection for Favors, Kanter simply is more productive when given similar minutes. Plus, Favors, in his third season, still doesn't have the foul thing figured out yet. And, well beyond last night, it is obvious that Favors has nowhere near the offensive game that Kanter has. His main calling card IMO is he is a very good post defender, better right now than Kanter. On the other hand, I think Kanter can close that gap whereas I don't expect Favors to suddenly add a mid-range jumper into his repertoire. Plus, while not showing in the box score, did you notice how active Kanter was without the ball? He was in constant motion, setting picks and screens. Favors just doesn't have the same court smarts.

Romoholic wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

I hate to be a downer, but I came to the conclusion tonight that the Jazz need to decide on Al OR Milsap and trade Favors. I'm completely unimpressed with his progress or lack of. He has had 10x the opportunity that Kanter has had and he constantly underachieves! I guess the Jazz could keep him as the third big, but Kanter deserves the playing time that Favors is getting. I get that Favors is a good defender, but he is just horrible on offense and he doesn't seem to have a very high basketball IQ or a good feel for the game. I think the Jazz should probably look to sign Paul, I think his game would mesh better with Kanters than Al's would.

Tonight also just confirmed to me what a terrible coach Corbin is. He is obviously wasting the talents of several players on this team. Marvin should be a 10-15 min a night guy. He has done a horrible job in deciding who plays and who doesn't. DC should no way in hell EVER get a DNP. Neither should Burks. Anyone on this team that has had any kind of breakout, has been because Corbin was forced to play them because of injuries, not because of any smart coaching moves. To make matters worse, when the injured player returns, the young guy that had a breakout goes back to riding the bench. Corbin's incompetence has probably cost the Jazz 10 games this season, if not more.

A game like this should leave us Jazz fans feeling great, but for me it's depressing, because it shows a glimpse of what could be, but won't. Would Enes average 20-20? No, but he could be a 20-10 guy. Marvin is just a complete waste. I really think the Jazz management F'd up big time, by not doing a real coaching search when Jerry left.

Couple things here. First of all, it was the Bobcats, worst team in the NBA, no reason to get too excited. I'd say the biggest takeaway is that our young guys are better than theirs and the Jazz will probably always be better than the Bobcats.

Second, no way some lineup tweaks result in 10 more wins, maybe 2-3.

Thirdly, I only watched the first half, but I really liked what I saw out of Favors. He made some sweet moves in the post, asserted himself defensively, and I thought played pretty well. I think foul trouble limited him a lot, and once Kanter got going he rightly deferred. I love the way those two work together, one or two more years of experience and they will be light years ahead of Millsap and Jefferson defensively.

IMO the Jazz would be a better team right now if Jefferson was replaced with Favors, but I know I'm in the minority around here on that feeling, heck after last night I might be in the minority thinking Favors is a better overall player than Kanter, but the more I watch the Jazz and look at the team numbers the more I really really... really really really...really really want to see the Jazz let Jefferson go this summer and move forward with Millsap, Jefferson, Kanter, and Evans.

Speaking of Evans, that guy just flat out gets it done when he's in the game. I know he's got his shortcomings, but by all counts he's been working hard on his jumper, he's a freak athlete, and it's clear he can produce in most situations he's put in, I think he's worthy of a turn in the rotation.

Yeah it was the Bobcats, but that doesn't take anything away from Kanter's play last night! How many guys have put up 20-20 on the Bobcats this season?

I also have no doubt in my mind that with a better coach we would be around 10 games better. It's not just a few minor rotation tweaks either. It the basic idea that Corbin doesn't ride the hot hand and will throw the "vets" back in anytime the bench gets us a lead!

I'll give you the fact that the young guys are not going to all come together like they did last night, but they showed that they deserve more time than they are getting. It's pretty obvious that Kanter is better than Favors right now, with a shit ton less experience!

I don't think there is a real basis for the things you are saying about Corbin in general. Analytically there has been quite a bit of discussion about weather such a thing as a "hot hand" actually exists, but in terms of Corbin I have felt that one of his strengths was being willing to play the players that are playing best in the 4th quarter. Obviously that doesn't offset what I view as his major flaw, giving significant minutes to unproductive veterans over productive young players, but I think it is different than what you are talking about, and on the whole if you swapped Carroll's minutes with DC and Burks with Tinsley/Watson you are looking at a 2-3 game improvement overall, maybe 5 tops. That's a huge swing by itself, and would have the Jazz in 5th place right now. 10 games would make the Jazz an elite team on the level of OKC and the Spurs, and that is just not realistic.

With regards to Kanter, My point was really just to counter the notion that we should possibly get rid of Favors, as I think that is ludicrous, but since I;m never one to shy away from this type of argument...

To borrow a phrase: one game does not one better make.

Definitely didn't mean to take anything away form Kanter with what I said, I 100% think that his game was legit and incredibly impressive. But don't forget the game before last where Favors put up 17 and 15 along with 3 assists and 3 blocks while only getting 2 turnovers to Kanters 5.

Kanter is still very raw, and even with his massive outburst he and Favors have almost identical rebounding and scoring numbers. Offensively Kanter still turns the ball over WAY too much and he's still a terrible passer out of the post. He shoots a higher percentage than Favors on his shots but draws far fewer fouls, so between that and the turnovers their Points per Minute and Points per Possession are almost equal. Defensively he's not even in the same ball park as Favors. Favors averages 1.4 steals and 2.3 blocks to Kanter's 1 steal and 1.3 blocks. Favors does foul to much, but so does Kanter. Kanter may be better in the long run and, like I said, I think Jefferson has to be the odd man out, but right now if I'm setting the rotation Favors is in front of Kanter.

First. UnderKanter/DFav = Yin and Yang. They compliment each other perfectly, and are even showing the ability to play off each other. You dont do an thing to this building two-headed monster.

As for Favors, he may not have had the line last night, but I wonder how many shots he "altered" out there. Something that doesn't show up in the boxscore, but that is a huge difference maker.

Kanter is never going to be known as a shot blocker. He'll probably peak at the type of shotblocker Paul is. But lets let these guys roll man, dont go talking about getting rid of them.
I wouldn't be surprised if now on Monday Favors has the monster game, and Kanter is a bit quieter.

My opinion, NOW Corbin is letting the hot hand or group go. He absolutely is doing this now. The problem is it took him 2 months two long, at a minimum. Much like our current SF problem. How overdue is it for DC to take that spot??? Once Corbin does it, he wont be getting many props from me for "making such a genius move playing the journeyman DC over the vet Marv".....