Jason Collins comes out

Romoholic wrote:

My wife and I are always dealing with prejudice from the people in this state. We both have a lot of very visible tattoos and you just can't believe the kind of looks and whispers we get going out to eat or to the movies. Of course nobody ever has the balls to come out and say anything, but its obvious as hell. Being gay in this state is about 50x worse than the crap we have to put up with.

Ok rant over!

As long as you don't have a tattoo of Fred Flintstone on your leg, I won't judge you.
Although, if you do.....then...hey everyone, I figured out who Romo is in real life.

The Voice of Reason wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

My wife and I are always dealing with prejudice from the people in this state. We both have a lot of very visible tattoos and you just can't believe the kind of looks and whispers we get going out to eat or to the movies. Of course nobody ever has the balls to come out and say anything, but its obvious as hell. Being gay in this state is about 50x worse than the crap we have to put up with.

Ok rant over!

As long as you don't have a tattoo of Fred Flintstone on your leg, I won't judge you.
Although, if you do.....then...hey everyone, I figured out who Romo is in real life.

No i have real tattoos, That crap Ostertag had is the stupidest shit I have ever seen.

Romoholic wrote:

Richardale wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

Richardale wrote:

Who cares what Karl would say and i could careless who comes out gay anymore. Is that there way of putting it out there they're looking for a lover? Hey girls i'm coming out i'm looking for a women, Anyone care?

That's a pretty simplistic view of it. I know you were probably kidding, but I have quite a few friends and family members that are gay, and it disgust me to see the way they are treated, especially the ones that live in Utah.

I hope your not thinking i'm hating on some guy that came out gay. I to have many friend i work with who are openly gay but its realy not news worthy? And yes i would say some i would say are friends. I live in utah and i hate seeing people lump me in with people that has any hate toward any person! Why is it that someone hates any worst with state lines? Your no better than those people when you go there Roms?

No I didn't think you were hating, but I do think its a big deal. Yeah it would have been a much bigger deal if he would have done it a few years ago, but I also don't think the league or public was ready for it then.

If you look at the comment section on any national story about Jason, you will see just how ignorant and how much hatred there still is for the gay community. I hate to say it, but it's my so called fellow Christians that are the most adamant opponents of LGBT rights.

That's the only cause I really get behind, because I've seen first hand how the hatred of people can destroy a gay persons life. On of my best friends since Jr High is gay and is a social worker and twice a year he hosts a drag show to raise money for homeless gay and lesbian teens. I go every time and even though I'm not gay, I have no problem being around gay men and transgendered people. I'm not afraid they are going to "turn me gay" and I know a lot of these people personally and know they are just like you and me. They just want to be treated like everyone else does. In Utah I think it's kind of a lost cause, but they still deserve it.

My wife and I are always dealing with prejudice from the people in this state. We both have a lot of very visible tattoos and you just can't believe the kind of looks and whispers we get going out to eat or to the movies. Of course nobody ever has the balls to come out and say anything, but its obvious as hell. Being gay in this state is about 50x worse than the crap we have to put up with.

Ok rant over!

My wife is very much invested in the Gay rights cause, and now that we have been out of the state for a while she refuses to go back (I don't hate it, but I don't have a burning desire to go back either) for some of those same reasons. Even though we both grew up and still would nicely fit into the other side of the culture you are talking about.

One thing I have noticed is that it makes people who have felt some of that hyper sensitive to it, to the point that they issue judgement on people they meet much faster and harsher than they themselves are being judged. I actually see that in my wife from time to time.

I also see some of that going on as forums devolve from the issue of gay athletes to the broader issue of gay rights. The internets have the wonderfull horrible interesting quality of turning us all into beligerint ideologues. I'm gad that isn't happening here.

To me, in specific situations where it is about one person and their right (constitutional, natural, human, whatever...) to be honest with themselves and the public, we should be taking our example from the athletes themselves. The ones who are supportive are speaking out in conjunction with the league itself saying that they are proud of Jason and that this is no big deal, and ones who dissagree are keeping their mouths shut.

TheMagnus wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

Richardale wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

Richardale wrote:

Who cares what Karl would say and i could careless who comes out gay anymore. Is that there way of putting it out there they're looking for a lover? Hey girls i'm coming out i'm looking for a women, Anyone care?

That's a pretty simplistic view of it. I know you were probably kidding, but I have quite a few friends and family members that are gay, and it disgust me to see the way they are treated, especially the ones that live in Utah.

I hope your not thinking i'm hating on some guy that came out gay. I to have many friend i work with who are openly gay but its realy not news worthy? And yes i would say some i would say are friends. I live in utah and i hate seeing people lump me in with people that has any hate toward any person! Why is it that someone hates any worst with state lines? Your no better than those people when you go there Roms?

No I didn't think you were hating, but I do think its a big deal. Yeah it would have been a much bigger deal if he would have done it a few years ago, but I also don't think the league or public was ready for it then.

If you look at the comment section on any national story about Jason, you will see just how ignorant and how much hatred there still is for the gay community. I hate to say it, but it's my so called fellow Christians that are the most adamant opponents of LGBT rights.

That's the only cause I really get behind, because I've seen first hand how the hatred of people can destroy a gay persons life. On of my best friends since Jr High is gay and is a social worker and twice a year he hosts a drag show to raise money for homeless gay and lesbian teens. I go every time and even though I'm not gay, I have no problem being around gay men and transgendered people. I'm not afraid they are going to "turn me gay" and I know a lot of these people personally and know they are just like you and me. They just want to be treated like everyone else does. In Utah I think it's kind of a lost cause, but they still deserve it.

My wife and I are always dealing with prejudice from the people in this state. We both have a lot of very visible tattoos and you just can't believe the kind of looks and whispers we get going out to eat or to the movies. Of course nobody ever has the balls to come out and say anything, but its obvious as hell. Being gay in this state is about 50x worse than the crap we have to put up with.

Ok rant over!

My wife is very much invested in the Gay rights cause, and now that we have been out of the state for a while she refuses to go back (I don't hate it, but I don't have a burning desire to go back either) for some of those same reasons. Even though we both grew up and still would nicely fit into the other side of the culture you are talking about.

One thing I have noticed is that it makes people who have felt some of that hyper sensitive to it, to the point that they issue judgement on people they meet much faster and harsher than they themselves are being judged. I actually see that in my wife from time to time.

I also see some of that going on as forums devolve from the issue of gay athletes to the broader issue of gay rights. The internets have the wonderfull horrible interesting quality of turning us all into beligerint ideologues. I'm gad that isn't happening here.

To me, in specific situations where it is about one person and their right (constitutional, natural, human, whatever...) to be honest with themselves and the public, we should be taking our example from the athletes themselves. The ones who are supportive are speaking out in conjunction with the league itself saying that they are proud of Jason and that this is no big deal, and ones who dissagree are keeping their mouths shut.

That's an excellent point. I do find myself doing that pretty frequently.

I think it's a pretty big deal. I mean, thinking about the locker room alone, makes this a big deal. Not too long ago, the majority of athletes would NOT have been comfortable with it.

I look at it like this. Jackie Robinson. I mean can you imagine a baseball league now with no black players in it? Seems absurd. Well, 30 years from now I'm sure we'll look at a gay player in the NBA with the same thought, and by then ALL the players will think the same way.
So right now this is a big deal.

Mutangclan wrote:

I think it's a pretty big deal. I mean, thinking about the locker room alone, makes this a big deal. Not too long ago, the majority of athletes would NOT have been comfortable with it.

I look at it like this. Jackie Robinson. I mean can you imagine a baseball league now with no black players in it? Seems absurd. Well, 30 years from now I'm sure we'll look at a gay player in the NBA with the same thought, and by then ALL the players will think the same way.
So right now this is a big deal.

I will second that Tang IF he comes back and plays next year. Something tell me he came out because he knew he was done with the game.

TheMagnus wrote:

Collins isn't really an active player anymore.

Well I haven't seen my somewhat less magnanimous view posted here yet (btw, the word magnanimous has nothing to do with Magnus ). I think Jason Collins is a very smart man, and that this story, where he has got himself, an over the hill center with limited skills --- you might even say "washed up", on the cover of SI and a trending news subject across all media, is more than a coming out story, though I certainly respect that story as well written, truthful and heartfelt.

So having given a salute to Collins' well written, truthful and heartfelt SI story, the other part of this story, imh speculation, is a brilliant self promotion. Collins put together this coming out plan with a very slick, well known NBA agent. The result is that Collins has suddenly gone from an athlete that probably 99.99% of Americans have never heard of, an athlete that many of hard core NBA fans didn't know was still playing, to one of the most famous athletes in the USA. Not only that, now everyone knows he has a Stanford degree, they know he can write very well, speak very well and that he hob knobs with the likes of Joe Kennedy (not that I like the decadent, pompous, elitist, self aggrandizing, often drugged and drunken heirs of the original Joe Kennedy, but the liberal majority is easily impressed by the Kennedy name).

So imo Collins now has potential opportunities that he didn't have before the story. For example, Stern might decide having an openly gay player is good for marketing, and urge one of the teams to take him at an owners' meeting. I am sure Stern is already worrying about damage to the NBA image if no team signs Collins next season. Or alternatively, a team like Golden State might decide on their own that having an openly gay player is good for business. So Collins, who before this story was probably roughly interchangeable with 15 or 20 other washed up big men hoping to catch on with a team next year, may actually have his chances to make an NBA team improved by the story.

Also, Collins has already told us in the SI story that he will be marching next year in a gay rights parade next to Congressman Joe Kennedy. This will be a big media event for Collins and Congressman Kennedy, and lest anybody has forgotten by that time who Jason Collins and Congressman Joe Kennedy are, the media will make sure we are all reminded every year when they march in this parade. So even if Collins doesn't make a team next season, he is suddenly now a rich, famous, smart and more MARKETABLE person who will likely have more opportunities open to him than he had before he and his agent did this story. Maybe he can run for office. At the very least, Obama will probably want to use him for one of his infamous props at an Obama press conference. JMH speculations.

Crunchtime1 wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Collins isn't really an active player anymore.

Well I haven't seen my somewhat less magnanimous view posted here yet (btw, the word magnanimous has nothing to do with Magnus ). I think Jason Collins is a very smart man, and that this story, where he has got himself, an over the hill center with limited skills --- you might even say "washed up", on the cover of SI and a trending news subject across all media, is more than a coming out story, though I certainly respect that story as well written, truthful and heartfelt.

So having given a salute to Collins' well written, truthful and heartfelt SI story, the other part of this story, imh speculation, is a brilliant self promotion. Collins put together this coming out plan with a very slick, well known NBA agent. The result is that Collins has suddenly gone from an athlete that probably 99.99% of Americans have never heard of, an athlete that many of hard core NBA fans didn't know was still playing, to one of the most famous athletes in the USA. Not only that, now everyone knows he has a Stanford degree, they know he can write very well, speak very well and that he hob knobs with the likes of Joe Kennedy (not that I like the decadent, pompous, elitist, self aggrandizing, often drugged and drunken heirs of the original Joe Kennedy, but the liberal majority is easily impressed by the Kennedy name).

So imo Collins now has potential opportunities that he didn't have before the story. For example, Stern might decide having an openly gay player is good for marketing, and urge one of the teams to take him at an owners' meeting. I am sure Stern is already worrying about damage to the NBA image if no team signs Collins next season. Or alternatively, a team like Golden State might decide on their own that having an openly gay player is good for business. So Collins, who before this story was probably roughly interchangeable with 15 or 20 other washed up big men hoping to catch on with a team next year, may actually have his chances to make an NBA team improved by the story.

Also, Collins has already told us in the SI story that he will be marching next year in a gay rights parade next to Congressman Joe Kennedy. This will be a big media event for Collins and Congressman Kennedy, and lest anybody has forgotten by that time who Jason Collins and Congressman Joe Kennedy are, the media will make sure we are all reminded every year when they march in this parade. So even if Collins doesn't make a team next season, he is suddenly now a rich, famous, smart and more MARKETABLE person who will likely have more opportunities open to him than he had before he and his agent did this story. Maybe he can run for office. At the very least, Obama will probably want to use him for one of his infamous props at an Obama press conference. JMH speculations.

Allow me to retort. I think your post is unnecessary cynicism. Jason Collins is a very intelligent man, a Stanford grad from a fairly prominent family in the LA area. He made over $30 million during his career, which isn't necessarily over, as you assert. I would be willing to bet good money that, unlike other dopey NBA players who throw all of their money away, Jason has a very substantial nest egg. He doesn't need to go through a self-promotion campaign for money reasons, and I highly doubt if he's looking for fame, at least not this way.

Are you aware of how difficult it is to "come out" in this homophobic society? Yes, he got a lot of public support for what he did, but if you scan any comment board on the news story, it doesn't take long to encounter hatred and vitriol. Jason Collins is now going to have to watch his back (fortunately he's a 7 footer) because there are a lot of people who would do ill to him just because he's gay. His announcement means that all of his personal and professional relationships will have to be reevaluated and, in some cases, adjusted, when he encounters people who can't accept his homosexuality.

This is not some simple frolic through the park for Jason Collins. He could have just faded away, enjoyed his money and had his privacy. He has chosen to take on a great responsibility because he knows what it means to be a person of stature who is gay. Most gay people in this country are powerless, and live at the whim of the majority. They don't have equal rights, and many of them live in fear of reprisals from virulent homophobes. Jason Collins can provide another voice to speak for the powerless, and he has chosen that responsibility, despite many obvious risks.

Try and be a little more empathetic and less suspicious. Not everyone out there has "evil" intentions. I'm pretty sure Jason Collins has good intentions.

thejazzkickazz wrote:

Crunchtime1 wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Collins isn't really an active player anymore.

Well I haven't seen my somewhat less magnanimous view posted here yet (btw, the word magnanimous has nothing to do with Magnus ). I think Jason Collins is a very smart man, and that this story, where he has got himself, an over the hill center with limited skills --- you might even say "washed up", on the cover of SI and a trending news subject across all media, is more than a coming out story, though I certainly respect that story as well written, truthful and heartfelt.

So having given a salute to Collins' well written, truthful and heartfelt SI story, the other part of this story, imh speculation, is a brilliant self promotion. Collins put together this coming out plan with a very slick, well known NBA agent. The result is that Collins has suddenly gone from an athlete that probably 99.99% of Americans have never heard of, an athlete that many of hard core NBA fans didn't know was still playing, to one of the most famous athletes in the USA. Not only that, now everyone knows he has a Stanford degree, they know he can write very well, speak very well and that he hob knobs with the likes of Joe Kennedy (not that I like the decadent, pompous, elitist, self aggrandizing, often drugged and drunken heirs of the original Joe Kennedy, but the liberal majority is easily impressed by the Kennedy name).

So imo Collins now has potential opportunities that he didn't have before the story. For example, Stern might decide having an openly gay player is good for marketing, and urge one of the teams to take him at an owners' meeting. I am sure Stern is already worrying about damage to the NBA image if no team signs Collins next season. Or alternatively, a team like Golden State might decide on their own that having an openly gay player is good for business. So Collins, who before this story was probably roughly interchangeable with 15 or 20 other washed up big men hoping to catch on with a team next year, may actually have his chances to make an NBA team improved by the story.

Also, Collins has already told us in the SI story that he will be marching next year in a gay rights parade next to Congressman Joe Kennedy. This will be a big media event for Collins and Congressman Kennedy, and lest anybody has forgotten by that time who Jason Collins and Congressman Joe Kennedy are, the media will make sure we are all reminded every year when they march in this parade. So even if Collins doesn't make a team next season, he is suddenly now a rich, famous, smart and more MARKETABLE person who will likely have more opportunities open to him than he had before he and his agent did this story. Maybe he can run for office. At the very least, Obama will probably want to use him for one of his infamous props at an Obama press conference. JMH speculations.

Allow me to retort. I think your post is unnecessary cynicism. Jason Collins is a very intelligent man, a Stanford grad from a fairly prominent family in the LA area. He made over $30 million during his career, which isn't necessarily over, as you assert. I would be willing to bet good money that, unlike other dopey NBA players who throw all of their money away, Jason has a very substantial nest egg. He doesn't need to go through a self-promotion campaign for money reasons, and I highly doubt if he's looking for fame, at least not this way.

Are you aware of how difficult it is to "come out" in this homophobic society? Yes, he got a lot of public support for what he did, but if you scan any comment board on the news story, it doesn't take long to encounter hatred and vitriol. Jason Collins is now going to have to watch his back (fortunately he's a 7 footer) because there are a lot of people who would do ill to him just because he's gay. His announcement means that all of his personal and professional relationships will have to be reevaluated and, in some cases, adjusted, when he encounters people who can't accept his homosexuality.

This is not some simple frolic through the park for Jason Collins. He could have just faded away, enjoyed his money and had his privacy. He has chosen to take on a great responsibility because he knows what it means to be a person of stature who is gay. Most gay people in this country are powerless, and live at the whim of the majority. They don't have equal rights, and many of them live in fear of reprisals from virulent homophobes. Jason Collins can provide another voice to speak for the powerless, and he has chosen that responsibility, despite many obvious risks.

Try and be a little more empathetic and less suspicious. Not everyone out there has "evil" intentions. I'm pretty sure Jason Collins has good intentions.

I have to agree with you here. Anyone that is close to a gay male knows the pain they endure from hiding who they are all the time.

I honestly think Jason is at the point in his career that he doesn't need to play anymore, It would probably been a bad idea to come out earlier in his career. THe league and society wasn't' ready for it. His career very well could have been cut short.

I don't think he has any motive, besides freeing himself from the burden of hiding his true self and being a public voice for the gay community.

Who cares if Jason came out for the exposure to benefit him. If you take him for what he said, paraphrasing- "I came out because I went to extraordinary lengths to hide my identity, now I'm happy to be complete. " then good for him. I believe him and am glad he's happier.
As far as Christians being less tolerate of gays, some even claiming that a gay Christian is an oxymoron - who cares! ! Let the self-righteous throw their stones while they can't remove the beam from their own hypocritical lives.
As far as gays not being given positions of power- this is understandable because the vast majority of ppl that are Christian are indeed homophobic. Gays are less likely to get in public office because most voters are Christian - that believe gays are openly sinners ..where they quote Bible verses and point fingers- again, not seemingly caring about their own faults they don't want to repent from.
But, there are venues, like at my hospital, where a few gays have more authority and responsibility than others... homophobia iow isn't everywhere.
Finally, on the flip side, society has believed the lie that if you don't go with popular trends, that you're intolerant and a bigot.
Faith notwithstanding, lets hope ppl let others live their lives the way that makes them happiest. I'm glad we live in America where for the most part - ppl can be themselves. I hope Jason plays again in the NBA and blocks or dunks on a peer that openly opposes his lifestyle ..but I doubt it'll happen that often because he's getting older and wasn't that good to begin with. I really doubt a player would be ostracized from the NBA if he put up 20/10 numbers but I guarantee there are players that would make fun of his lifestyle behind his back.

Great post JKA, I'd agree with you.

And either way, it's still a tough step in the right direction, big or small.

thejazzkickazz wrote:

Crunchtime1 wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Collins isn't really an active player anymore.

Well I haven't seen my somewhat less magnanimous view posted here yet (btw, the word magnanimous has nothing to do with Magnus ). I think Jason Collins is a very smart man, and that this story, where he has got himself, an over the hill center with limited skills --- you might even say "washed up", on the cover of SI and a trending news subject across all media, is more than a coming out story, though I certainly respect that story as well written, truthful and heartfelt.

So having given a salute to Collins' well written, truthful and heartfelt SI story, the other part of this story, imh speculation, is a brilliant self promotion. Collins put together this coming out plan with a very slick, well known NBA agent. The result is that Collins has suddenly gone from an athlete that probably 99.99% of Americans have never heard of, an athlete that many of hard core NBA fans didn't know was still playing, to one of the most famous athletes in the USA. Not only that, now everyone knows he has a Stanford degree, they know he can write very well, speak very well and that he hob knobs with the likes of Joe Kennedy (not that I like the decadent, pompous, elitist, self aggrandizing, often drugged and drunken heirs of the original Joe Kennedy, but the liberal majority is easily impressed by the Kennedy name).

So imo Collins now has potential opportunities that he didn't have before the story. For example, Stern might decide having an openly gay player is good for marketing, and urge one of the teams to take him at an owners' meeting. I am sure Stern is already worrying about damage to the NBA image if no team signs Collins next season. Or alternatively, a team like Golden State might decide on their own that having an openly gay player is good for business. So Collins, who before this story was probably roughly interchangeable with 15 or 20 other washed up big men hoping to catch on with a team next year, may actually have his chances to make an NBA team improved by the story.

Also, Collins has already told us in the SI story that he will be marching next year in a gay rights parade next to Congressman Joe Kennedy. This will be a big media event for Collins and Congressman Kennedy, and lest anybody has forgotten by that time who Jason Collins and Congressman Joe Kennedy are, the media will make sure we are all reminded every year when they march in this parade. So even if Collins doesn't make a team next season, he is suddenly now a rich, famous, smart and more MARKETABLE person who will likely have more opportunities open to him than he had before he and his agent did this story. Maybe he can run for office. At the very least, Obama will probably want to use him for one of his infamous props at an Obama press conference. JMH speculations.

Allow me to retort. I think your post is unnecessary cynicism. Jason Collins is a very intelligent man, a Stanford grad from a fairly prominent family in the LA area. He made over $30 million during his career, which isn't necessarily over, as you assert. I would be willing to bet good money that, unlike other dopey NBA players who throw all of their money away, Jason has a very substantial nest egg. He doesn't need to go through a self-promotion campaign for money reasons, and I highly doubt if he's looking for fame, at least not this way.

Are you aware of how difficult it is to "come out" in this homophobic society? Yes, he got a lot of public support for what he did, but if you scan any comment board on the news story, it doesn't take long to encounter hatred and vitriol. Jason Collins is now going to have to watch his back (fortunately he's a 7 footer) because there are a lot of people who would do ill to him just because he's gay. His announcement means that all of his personal and professional relationships will have to be reevaluated and, in some cases, adjusted, when he encounters people who can't accept his homosexuality.

This is not some simple frolic through the park for Jason Collins. He could have just faded away, enjoyed his money and had his privacy. He has chosen to take on a great responsibility because he knows what it means to be a person of stature who is gay. Most gay people in this country are powerless, and live at the whim of the majority. They don't have equal rights, and many of them live in fear of reprisals from virulent homophobes. Jason Collins can provide another voice to speak for the powerless, and he has chosen that responsibility, despite many obvious risks.

Try and be a little more empathetic and less suspicious. Not everyone out there has "evil" intentions. I'm pretty sure Jason Collins has good intentions.

Very nice response. Could not have said it better myself.

I think the sad truth is that the kind of thing that Crunchtime is talking about is not uncommon, especially in the world of politics, so it's not like his assumptions or arguments there lack basis.

I do feel that take is overly cynical though, and is realy an Appeal to Motive fallacy.

Regardless of whatever personal gain or persecution he gets from this, he's the one that jumped into the fog. He's the one that decided it was time for someone to stand up and say, "I'm gay, and I'm going to play in the NBA as a gay man."

Whether that risk was calculated or impulsive, whether it leads to fortune and fame or calumny and shame really doesn't matter. He was the first. He was the one that stepped up and was willing to "raise his hand" and see what came next.

JazzkickAzz, I am saying I believe there are two parts to this story, and there being a second part of the story does not invalidate the coming out story or make the process "evil" in any way. I think Collins is getting a great burden off his chest and saying things he has long wanted to say AND is self promoting at the same time. He hired Arn Tellum, who is widely considered one of the greatest sports agents ever, to manage his coming out story for the latter purpose. And now one week later, Jason Collins is taking a call from President Obama and is being talked about across all media, not just sports media, as a Jackie Robinson type figure. Arn Tellum strikes again.

Quote :

Are you aware of how difficult it is to "come out" in this homophobic society?

I am sure coming out is very tough, but it would arguably be a tougher and more courageous act for a guy working on a construction project in Richfield, Utah than it is for Collins. I have lived in Silicon Valley a majority of the year for each of the last two years (grew up here too), and if Collins decides to come back here where he went to Stanford, I am certain that he will have more opportunity, not less, as a result of this story. And this is not to say that he would not have had plenty of good career opportunities following basketball anyway. Stanford and Harvard graduates are given great opportunities throughout life over and over again, regardless of personal merit or performance, which phenomenon is gladly and openly referred to as The Halo Effect by people on the Stanford campus. And in Collins case, he appears to have both the Stanford degree and the useful smarts that is supposed to go along with that Stanford degree.

Collins was already part the athletic and monied elite by virtue of playing in the NBA for 12 years, and he was already part of the Stanford elite. The Stanford elite hold very powerful positions in this country, and as a whole, they are far from homophobic. This new Jackie Robinson figure in the making, under management of Arn Tellum, will get more opportunities out of this story, not less, and there is nothing wrong with that. That is my opinion and I am sticking to it.

Crunchtime1 wrote:

JazzkickAzz, I am saying I believe there are two parts to this story, and there being a second part of the story does not invalidate the coming out story or make the process "evil" in any way. I think Collins is getting a great burden off his chest and saying things he has long wanted to say AND is self promoting at the same time. He had Arn Tellum, who is widely considered one of the greatest sports agents ever, manage his coming out story for the latter purpose. And now one week later, Jason Collins is taking a call from President Obama and is being talked about across all media, not just sports media, as a Jackie Robinson type figure. Arn Tellum strikes again.

Quote :

Are you aware of how difficult it is to "come out" in this homophobic society?

I am sure it is tough, but it would be a lot tougher and more courageous for a guy working on a construction project in Richfield, Utah to come out than Collins. I have lived in Silicon Valley a majority of the year for each of the last two years (grew up here too), and if Collins decides to come back here where he went to Stanford, I am certain that he will have more opportunity, not less, as a result of this story. And this is not to say that he would not have had plenty of good career opportunities following basketball anyway. Stanford and Harvard graduates are given great opportunities throughout life over and over again regardless of merit or performance, which phenomenon is gladly and openly referred to as The Halo Effect by people around the Stanford campus. And in Collins case, he appears to have both the Stanford degree and the useful smarts that is supposed to go along with that degree.

Collins was already part the athletic and monied elite by virtue of playing in the NBA for 12 years, and he was already part of the Stanford elite. The Stanford elite hold very powerful positions in this country and as a whole they are far from homophobic. This new Jackie Robinson figure in the making, under management of Arn Tellum, will get more opportunities out of this story, not less, and there is nothing wrong with that. That is my opinion and I am sticking to it.

Crunch, while I lean a little bit bit more towards the majority in this one (that Jason came out with little intent on using this info as a way to get ahead), I do have to admit that what you are saying did cross my mind & in no way can be simply pushed aside as a negative & absured way of looking at things. So while I don't think it's true, it is entirely possible that Mr.Collins & his agent planned this out, or at the very least, Jason planned on simply coming out & was "nudged" to make this info into a bigger deal by an agent that saw $$$. (Afterall, it's the whole reason to have an agent and the "American Way", right?)

........... oh, and just to add to the common theme ..... I have freinds that belong to the LGBT community as well. Good people that do have to put up with things that the straight folks don't even have to think about.

zero24gravity wrote:

Crunchtime1 wrote:

JazzkickAzz, I am saying I believe there are two parts to this story, and there being a second part of the story does not invalidate the coming out story or make the process "evil" in any way. I think Collins is getting a great burden off his chest and saying things he has long wanted to say AND is self promoting at the same time. He had Arn Tellum, who is widely considered one of the greatest sports agents ever, manage his coming out story for the latter purpose. And now one week later, Jason Collins is taking a call from President Obama and is being talked about across all media, not just sports media, as a Jackie Robinson type figure. Arn Tellum strikes again.

Quote :

Are you aware of how difficult it is to "come out" in this homophobic society?

I am sure it is tough, but it would be a lot tougher and more courageous for a guy working on a construction project in Richfield, Utah to come out than Collins. I have lived in Silicon Valley a majority of the year for each of the last two years (grew up here too), and if Collins decides to come back here where he went to Stanford, I am certain that he will have more opportunity, not less, as a result of this story. And this is not to say that he would not have had plenty of good career opportunities following basketball anyway. Stanford and Harvard graduates are given great opportunities throughout life over and over again regardless of merit or performance, which phenomenon is gladly and openly referred to as The Halo Effect by people around the Stanford campus. And in Collins case, he appears to have both the Stanford degree and the useful smarts that is supposed to go along with that degree.

Collins was already part the athletic and monied elite by virtue of playing in the NBA for 12 years, and he was already part of the Stanford elite. The Stanford elite hold very powerful positions in this country and as a whole they are far from homophobic. This new Jackie Robinson figure in the making, under management of Arn Tellum, will get more opportunities out of this story, not less, and there is nothing wrong with that. That is my opinion and I am sticking to it.

Crunch, while I lean a little bit bit more towards the majority in this one (that Jason came out with little intent on using this info as a way to get ahead), I do have to admit that what you are saying did cross my mind & in no way can be simply pushed aside as a negative & absured way of looking at things. So while I don't think it's true, it is entirely possible that Mr.Collins & his agent planned this out, or at the very least, Jason planned on simply coming out & was "nudged" to make this info into a bigger deal by an agent that saw $$$. (Afterall, it's the whole reason to have an agent and the "American Way", right?)

........... oh, and just to add to the common theme ..... I have freinds that belong to the LGBT community as well. Good people that do have to put up with things that the straight folks don't even have to think about.

See I'm on the opposite side here. I don't think there is any way you pull something like this off, the way he did it, without a LOT of planning and there is not doubt in my mind that he had a whole team of folks helping him to control his message and properly align it for the media.

My feeling is that it doesn't matter, even a little, and I think pointing it out in a way that says "ya, that's nice and all, but here's what he's REALLY doing..." is alwasy going to come off as a bit cynical and jaded.

Not that that is a bad thing, there will always be value in the cynic, I just think sometimes it is unecessary.

TheMagnus wrote:

See I'm on the opposite side here. I don't think there is any way you pull something like this off, the way he did it, without a LOT of planning and there is not doubt in my mind that he had a whole team of folks helping him to control his message and properly align it for the media.

My feeling is that it doesn't matter, even a little, and I think pointing it out in a way that says "ya, that's nice and all, but here's what he's REALLY doing..." is alwasy going to come off as a bit cynical and jaded.

Not that that is a bad thing, there will always be value in the cynic, I just think sometimes it is unecessary.

Like I said, I am on that side of the fence as well, but I can't say with 100% certainty that there is just no way there wasn't any other motive. I doubt it, but it could be. There are stories every day in the news of people doing things that I just can't imagine happening ... you just never know.

But as it has also been said ... "who cares?" I hope this leads to more tolerance regardless of motive.

I'm happy this kid feel full now and can go on with his life. But from the posts i'm seeing about slaming anyone should not have a place in here,Talk about hate guys? I like to think i love our heavenly father above and all people here on this earth. People want to call me another person here (self righteous) because i have differrent beliefs is someone full of hate! Stop and think. I think if someone is gay they should be given the same rights, Right to devorce courts and alimony but i think they should do it under some other peice of paper not called a marriage license. You want to hate me and call me names because of that go ahead. Take your vote and if you want me out of here i'm be done. I thought this forum was gonna be better and diffirent than the other? My bad for being one of those so called self righteous.

Richardale wrote:

I'm happy this kid feel full now and can go on with his life. But from the posts i'm seeing about slaming anyone should not have a place in here,Talk about hate guys? I like to think i love our heavenly father above and all people here on this earth. People want to call me another person here (self righteous) because i have differrent beliefs is someone full of hate! Stop and think. I think if someone is gay they should be given the same rights, Right to devorce courts and alimony but i think they should do it under some other peice of paper not called a marriage license. You want to hate me and call me names because of that go ahead. Take your vote and if you want me out of here i'm be done. I thought this forum was gonna be better and diffirent than the other? My bad for being one of those so called self righteous.

I'm pretty sure nobody here is having, or is interested in having that conversation in this forum. And if they were we would shut it down because this isn't the place for it.

We are kind of dancing around it a bit though, perhaps it is time to move on to another topic...

TheMagnus wrote:

Richardale wrote:

I'm happy this kid feel full now and can go on with his life. But from the posts i'm seeing about slaming anyone should not have a place in here,Talk about hate guys? I like to think i love our heavenly father above and all people here on this earth. People want to call me another person here (self righteous) because i have differrent beliefs is someone full of hate! Stop and think. I think if someone is gay they should be given the same rights, Right to devorce courts and alimony but i think they should do it under some other peice of paper not called a marriage license. You want to hate me and call me names because of that go ahead. Take your vote and if you want me out of here i'm be done. I thought this forum was gonna be better and diffirent than the other? My bad for being one of those so called self righteous.

I'm pretty sure nobody here is having, or is interested in having that conversation in this forum. And if they were we would shut it down because this isn't the place for it.

We are kind of dancing around it a bit though, perhaps it is time to move on to another topic...

I agree.

Richardale wrote:

I'm happy this kid feel full now and can go on with his life. But from the posts i'm seeing about slaming anyone should not have a place in here,Talk about hate guys? I like to think i love our heavenly father above and all people here on this earth. People want to call me another person here (self righteous) because i have differrent beliefs is someone full of hate! Stop and think. I think if someone is gay they should be given the same rights, Right to devorce courts and alimony but i think they should do it under some other peice of paper not called a marriage license. You want to hate me and call me names because of that go ahead. Take your vote and if you want me out of here i'm be done. I thought this forum was gonna be better and diffirent than the other? My bad for being one of those so called self righteous.

Wow were did this come from? Nobody called you out personally. If you are taking the comments others are making and projecting them on yourself that's not right. I also don't recall gay marriage even being brought up in the conversation.

And lastly this forum is different than others, take a peek around some of the other sports forums.

Romoholic wrote:

Richardale wrote:

I'm happy this kid feel full now and can go on with his life. But from the posts i'm seeing about slaming anyone should not have a place in here,Talk about hate guys? I like to think i love our heavenly father above and all people here on this earth. People want to call me another person here (self righteous) because i have differrent beliefs is someone full of hate! Stop and think. I think if someone is gay they should be given the same rights, Right to devorce courts and alimony but i think they should do it under some other peice of paper not called a marriage license. You want to hate me and call me names because of that go ahead. Take your vote and if you want me out of here i'm be done. I thought this forum was gonna be better and diffirent than the other? My bad for being one of those so called self righteous.

Wow were did this come from? Nobody called you out personally. If you are taking the comments others are making and projecting them on yourself that's not right. I also don't recall gay marriage even being brought up in the conversation.

And lastly this forum is different than others, take a peek around some of the other sports forums.

Relax, Mr. Richard Dale. I think everyone here can respect each other's opinion and there doesn't have to be anything personal. I know that I am fine with yours and Crunchtime's and everyone else's opinions I have seen so far here. We are just talking about an interesting topic here, and there are some differing opinions on why Jason Collins came out when he did...nothing too controversial.

As has been stated above, we have hashed this out a little, as we should have, being an NBA-related forum, but it's probably time to move on and talk about other subjects like the playoffs, the draft and what the hell the Utah Jazz are going to do to help make their fans happier next season.

Romoholic wrote:

Richardale wrote:

I'm happy this kid feel full now and can go on with his life. But from the posts i'm seeing about slaming anyone should not have a place in here,Talk about hate guys? I like to think i love our heavenly father above and all people here on this earth. People want to call me another person here (self righteous) because i have differrent beliefs is someone full of hate! Stop and think. I think if someone is gay they should be given the same rights, Right to devorce courts and alimony but i think they should do it under some other peice of paper not called a marriage license. You want to hate me and call me names because of that go ahead. Take your vote and if you want me out of here i'm be done. I thought this forum was gonna be better and diffirent than the other? My bad for being one of those so called self righteous.

Wow were did this come from? Nobody called you out personally. If you are taking the comments others are making and projecting them on yourself that's not right. I also don't recall gay marriage even being brought up in the conversation.

And lastly this forum is different than others, take a peek around some of the other sports forums.

Thanks Rom. I think we have a lot of good people in this state period. I started a tat on my arm 30 years ago and i've seen a lot of great tats. Sometimes i'll tell the person that nice and other times i see some really bad tats and i bite my tonge and move on.What i'm trying to say is when people put them on i feel their to look at and check out and i hope i dont affend anyone when i do it.Both my boys have tats and i love them and if one came out guy,I would still love them. I feel my church has been judge pretty hard in passed because they beleive in the family.Its really not about seeing other people hurt. If my boy said he was gay he would know i still love him and want the best for him and to see him happy.I'm NOT here on this earth to judge anyone.

Richardale wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

Richardale wrote:

I'm happy this kid feel full now and can go on with his life. But from the posts i'm seeing about slaming anyone should not have a place in here,Talk about hate guys? I like to think i love our heavenly father above and all people here on this earth. People want to call me another person here (self righteous) because i have differrent beliefs is someone full of hate! Stop and think. I think if someone is gay they should be given the same rights, Right to devorce courts and alimony but i think they should do it under some other peice of paper not called a marriage license. You want to hate me and call me names because of that go ahead. Take your vote and if you want me out of here i'm be done. I thought this forum was gonna be better and diffirent than the other? My bad for being one of those so called self righteous.

Wow were did this come from? Nobody called you out personally. If you are taking the comments others are making and projecting them on yourself that's not right. I also don't recall gay marriage even being brought up in the conversation.

And lastly this forum is different than others, take a peek around some of the other sports forums.

Thanks Rom. I think we have a lot of good people in this state period. I started a tat on my arm 30 years ago and i've seen a lot of great tats. Sometimes i'll tell the person that nice and other times i see some really bad tats and i bite my tonge and move on.What i'm trying to say is when people put them on i feel their to look at and check out and i hope i dont affend anyone when i do it.Both my boys have tats and i love them and if one came out guy,I would still love them. I feel my church has been judge pretty hard in passed because they beleive in the family.Its really not about seeing other people hurt. If my boy said he was gay he would know i still love him and want the best for him and to see him happy.I'm NOT here on this earth to judge anyone.

I just didn't want you to think anyone was targeting you personally, because it would never be allowed and I don't think there is anyone on here that would do it in the first place. I honestly don't care what religion someone is as long as they are a good person and treat others with compassion and caring.

Romoholic wrote:

Richardale wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

Richardale wrote:

I'm happy this kid feel full now and can go on with his life. But from the posts i'm seeing about slaming anyone should not have a place in here,Talk about hate guys? I like to think i love our heavenly father above and all people here on this earth. People want to call me another person here (self righteous) because i have differrent beliefs is someone full of hate! Stop and think. I think if someone is gay they should be given the same rights, Right to devorce courts and alimony but i think they should do it under some other peice of paper not called a marriage license. You want to hate me and call me names because of that go ahead. Take your vote and if you want me out of here i'm be done. I thought this forum was gonna be better and diffirent than the other? My bad for being one of those so called self righteous.

Wow were did this come from? Nobody called you out personally. If you are taking the comments others are making and projecting them on yourself that's not right. I also don't recall gay marriage even being brought up in the conversation.

And lastly this forum is different than others, take a peek around some of the other sports forums.

Thanks Rom. I think we have a lot of good people in this state period. I started a tat on my arm 30 years ago and i've seen a lot of great tats. Sometimes i'll tell the person that nice and other times i see some really bad tats and i bite my tonge and move on.What i'm trying to say is when people put them on i feel their to look at and check out and i hope i dont affend anyone when i do it.Both my boys have tats and i love them and if one came out guy,I would still love them. I feel my church has been judge pretty hard in passed because they beleive in the family.Its really not about seeing other people hurt. If my boy said he was gay he would know i still love him and want the best for him and to see him happy.I'm NOT here on this earth to judge anyone.

I just didn't want you to think anyone was targeting you personally, because it would never be allowed and I don't think there is anyone on here that would do it in the first place. I honestly don't care what religion someone is as long as they are a good person and treat others with compassion and caring.

I feel like a part of me has been targeted And i dont feel like anyone needs to be under fire for there religion or desires in this world as long as they're not out trying to hurting anyone while doing it. I've talked a little sports trash out of fun in here but i'm not out to hurt anyone feeling. If i have, i'm sorry.

Hey guys....stepped away for a day or two. Time to lock this thread yet?