The NBA Finals

So, for those who are watching the finals, what do you think? Predictions?

Miami is stepping up big and moving the ball better at times than I have seen them do it...ever. Thier non-big-three guys are stepping up, and they play tenacious D.

The thing about the Thunder is that you can't help but feel when you are watching them that they can play a lot better, which is freaking scary given the fact that they are giving the Heat almost more than they can handle right now.

After these first two games though I'm less convinced that the Thunder will win. They should win, but I can't help but think of the last time the Heat won a championship. They were down 20 in game 3 to a Mavs team that was just dominating them for 2 3/4 games and they came back and dominated the Mavs in similar fashion for 3 1/4 games to win the championship. That Mavs team was unquestionably a better team, top to bottom, but the Heat went to waht was effectively a 3-2 zone with two bigs camped in the paint and the guards running the shooters off the 3 pt line and watched with delight as Josh Howard and Jason Terry bricked jump shot after jump shot while Wade drew over 10 fouls (!!!) a game through is uncanny ability to get into the lane and never land on his feet after he shoots.

This series has that kind of feel to me. The Thunder are a better team, top to bottom, but they are prone to turnovers, and at times they can fall in love with the shooting quick jumpers and having lapses on D.

Still, this Thunder team is really good, and this series promises to be a battle to the end.

Which brings me to my final thought... Why am I not more interested in these games?

It's really strange, these games are being played at a good pace, there are lots of amazing plays, starpower, sub-plots...yet I find myself struggling to stay tuned in. Anybody else feeling that?

Probably because it is summer, you aren't an invested fan of either team, and you get the feeling the underdog ain't going to win.

I think the Heat will win the next 3 games and it will be over.

shelley_utahjazzfan wrote:

Probably because it is summer, you aren't an invested fan of either team, and you get the feeling the underdog ain't going to win.

I think the Heat will win the next 3 games and it will be over.

Who do you think is the underdog? After the drubbing OKC gave the Spurs and the injury to Bosh the Thunder came in as the favorites to win it all.

It must be, as you said, the fact that I really have no vested interest in either team. And it's not just in the teams themselves, but I really don't care about any of the players either. Usually there is some kind of local interest, an ex-Jazz man, an ex-Utah college or high school star...but in this series there's nothing. Maynor is out with an injury, Fisher is a negative factor...and that's about it.

Meh, when does free agency start?

I call OKC the underdog since they've never won a championship.

Definitely underdogs now. And to Mags point, last night's game wasn't that engaging if you like team ball versus My Superstars vs Your Superstars play.

Usually I don't talk on the zebras job, but I've got to say that refereeing is kind of functional to Miami... the suffocating, almost "intimate skin-to-skin" defense they play is overly suspicious most of the time...

shelley_utahjazzfan wrote:

I call OKC the underdog since they've never won a championship.

Actually, the team did win a championship in '79, when they were the Seattle Supersonics.

..... just saying

TheMagnus wrote:

Which brings me to my final thought... Why am I not more interested in these games?

It's really strange, these games are being played at a good pace, there are lots of amazing plays, starpower, sub-plots...yet I find myself struggling to stay tuned in. Anybody else feeling that?

I just turned the game off. Close game, rabid crowd, superstars all over the place. And I just don't care. (the loudest cheers have been for foul calls, it seems)

It isn't even basketball. Almost every shot taken is taken in a manner designed, not to make a shot, but to get to the line. Players throw their heads back every time a defender crowds them, hoping to draw a foul (and if it works for James F'ing Jones, it works for everybody). Shooters drop to the ground without contact, expecting a whistle.

It's stupid. Maybe it's some kind of "basketball +", where you play the game of basketball AND some kind of balletic acting game. But screw it. I played on the streets and playgrounds and driveways and nobody who played like that would ever get to a second game, would definitely get laughed at and maybe get beat down.

Whether you prefer the "men don't call fouls" self-regulation of street ball, or the game as laid out in the rulebook, this crap the NBA puts out there isn't it.

Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating, but I don't find it all that compelling.

It WAS interesting to see the famous Derek Fisher involved in the pivotal, game-turning play though.

Seriously, it looked like a turning point and it was.

OKC had come back to tie with what? 7 minutes to go? 5? Less? And they came up with a steal! Fisher "flew" downcourt (in much the same manner a penguin "flies" up a muddy hill) and, momentarily possessed by the spirit of Devin Harris, went 1-on-3 and "lofted" (in much the same manner a 20-year-old dog "lofts" to catch a frisbee) a layup attempt which Bosh blocked with his armpit. Seriously, I could have blocked that shot. My MOTHER could have blocked that shot.

The Magic came back down and made a three and I don't think the Okies ever even tied it up again.

So much for "Finals experience" eh?

ps) approx. 7:30 left, Heat were up 90-83. At 5:50, Westbrook had scored 7 straight to tie it up when Fisher made a steal (I think it was the play where Lebron hurt himself), giving the Okies a chance at the lead...and then boneheaded them out of that chance. OKC never led after that. I had to check...

The thing that stood out to me was that Westbrook scored at will last night, but still cost the team any chance at a win.

The bone-head foul that sent the Heat to the line with under 20 seconds left was only bettered by Chris Webber's Time Out Call in college. He had no idea that the clock was reset from 0.8 seconds to 5 seconds on the jump ball. He thought he had a free shot at the Heat player cause the shot clock had ran out..... dumb.

Then he just loses the ball as he tried to race down the court to get a quick score. ... careless.

Westbrook is a helluva player, but he really seems to have a serious basketball brain injury sometimes.

Trollificus wrote:

I just turned the game off. Close game, rabid crowd, superstars all over the place. And I just don't care. (the loudest cheers have been for foul calls, it seems)

It isn't even basketball. Almost every shot taken is taken in a manner designed, not to make a shot, but to get to the line. Players throw their heads back every time a defender crowds them, hoping to draw a foul (and if it works for James F'ing Jones, it works for everybody). Shooters drop to the ground without contact, expecting a whistle.

It's stupid. Maybe it's some kind of "basketball +", where you play the game of basketball AND some kind of balletic acting game. But screw it. I played on the streets and playgrounds and driveways and nobody who played like that would ever get to a second game, would definitely get laughed at and maybe get beat down.

Whether you prefer the "men don't call fouls" self-regulation of street ball, or the game as laid out in the rulebook, this crap the NBA puts out there isn't it.

No. You're not exagerating. Not even a little.

I feel the exact same way and reacted in the exact same fashion, I can't watch this crap, it's awful.

What is happening in these NBA finals is basketball for idots and posers. I think Miami went two full quarters without setting a screen away from the ball. There was a stretch there in the third where for no less than 8 minutes of game time there was a clear flop/flail on every posession with each and every one resulting in prodigious whining no matter what the outcome was.

It may have been longer than 8 minutes, but that was when I gave up and decided to fill my need for basketball by spending an hour putting together a spreadsheet of stats and writing that rediculously long post in the Jazz forum. I don't know what it is that the Thunder and Heat are doing out there, but it sure as hell aint the game of basketball that I know and love.

Thanks, Mags. I think that flop/flail sequence was when I came in and posted that first post.

I feel a little less 'crazy curmudgeon' and more Defender of the True Game now.

Trollificus wrote:

Thanks, Mags. I think that flop/flail sequence was when I came in and posted that first post.

I feel a little less 'crazy curmudgeon' and more Defender of the True Game now.

The Beefy Arm of Trogdor will stand for nothing less.

Aye. Who can withstand such consumate "V"s??

Trollificus wrote:

Aye. Who can withstand such consumate "V"s??

No two people are not on fire!

Trollificus wrote:

Aye. Who can withstand such consumate "V"s??

Hah, just seeing this. Couldn't agree more. That was the least watched Finals in history......well, at my house. I really didn't care at all. One on one basketball at it's worst. Even the fans got annoying and just like the ***** fans, booing everytime one of their guys gets fouled, or even just touched. So ugly and annoying. The flopping that team is doing is so much that Stern is changing the game.
I think that will be the great Lebrons only title though, at least with this Miami team. They can't get any better really.
I can't believe how much I really dont care though, heh.

Well, I for one am shocked the Thunder got rolled after what they did to San Antonio. Whether it was the individual one on one play or the key game by game emergence of differnent players other than the Big 3, that team destroyed the best the West could offer up.

Very curious to hear more from the more technical pundits on this board on how come the Heat were so effective dismantling the Thunder. Did it really boil down to LeBron's transcendent game outshining Durant's. One thing for sure is the Thunder did not get meaningful help from anyone not named Durant or Westbrook - was that the difference? That the Heat simply had better support for the superstars?

With all that said, and contrary to Mu's prediction this is the one and only, why won't the Heat be the team to beat for several more years with healthy superstars and the pick of the litter with respect to quality support personnel?

Despite my WCF bias I found myself actually hoping the Heat won - simply because of the Fisher factor. I have hated on LeBron while he was hatable, but as a baller in this series he was a force and earned my respect.

MTJazz wrote:

Well, I for one am shocked the Thunder got rolled after what they did to San Antonio. Whether it was the individual one on one play or the key game by game emergence of differnent players other than the Big 3, that team destroyed the best the West could offer up.

Very curious to hear more from the more technical pundits on this board on how come the Heat were so effective dismantling the Thunder. Did it really boil down to LeBron's transcendent game outshining Durant's. One thing for sure is the Thunder did not get meaningful help from anyone not named Durant or Westbrook - was that the difference? That the Heat simply had better support for the superstars?

With all that said, and contrary to Mu's prediction this is the one and only, why won't the Heat be the team to beat for several more years with healthy superstars and the pick of the litter with respect to quality support personnel?

Despite my WCF bias I found myself actually hoping the Heat won - simply because of the Fisher factor. I have hated on LeBron while he was hatable, but as a baller in this series he was a force and earned my respect.

I think one huge part is that Harden disappeared. I can't say for sure, because I truly didn't even watch; even when it was on my tv. But seems he lost his confidence. Not sure why. I think Scott Brooks made mistakes. And I hate to say it, but I even feel like the referring was subpar, treating Lebron and Wade like superstars every night all game long, instead of just calling the game.

As for the future, this is why I said what I did. With the Miami $$$ situation, I dont think much can change with their team. So there are what they are. And this year that was enough. But even for just the Thunder, I think they get much better. Durant will be better, as will Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka next year. They're all so young. And they'll stay together for a mimimum of one more year, but I"m sure many years. They're going to be crazy good, unfortunately for us Jazz fans. Going to be tough to beat them.
Other teams too are going to get better. I just dont think the Heat are dominant; I just think they won it this year. Much like Dallas last year.

shelley_utahjazzfan wrote:

Probably because it is summer, you aren't an invested fan of either team, and you get the feeling the underdog ain't going to win.

I think the Heat will win the next 3 games and it will be over.

I'm good.

MTJazz wrote:

Well, I for one am shocked the Thunder got rolled after what they did to San Antonio. Whether it was the individual one on one play or the key game by game emergence of differnent players other than the Big 3, that team destroyed the best the West could offer up.

Very curious to hear more from the more technical pundits on this board on how come the Heat were so effective dismantling the Thunder. Did it really boil down to LeBron's transcendent game outshining Durant's. One thing for sure is the Thunder did not get meaningful help from anyone not named Durant or Westbrook - was that the difference? That the Heat simply had better support for the superstars?

With all that said, and contrary to Mu's prediction this is the one and only, why won't the Heat be the team to beat for several more years with healthy superstars and the pick of the litter with respect to quality support personnel?

Despite my WCF bias I found myself actually hoping the Heat won - simply because of the Fisher factor. I have hated on LeBron while he was hatable, but as a baller in this series he was a force and earned my respect.

I'm probably about as technical a guy as you find on this board, but I personally think the Heat just broke the Thunder mentaly. It wasn't about basketball talent in the purest sense, it was about experience, and will, and toughness.

It's easy to forget how young the Thunder are. The older, stronger (mentally and physically) Heat made the game ugly (as we have discused above), and the young guys weren't mentally tough enough to play through it. You could see their frustration boiling over and thier confidence flowing out in games 3 and 4 when, with their 3rd frustratingly close loss in a row, the series was effectively over.

Battier was a huge difference maker for Miami. He was tenatious, crafty, dirty, and most importantly, he hit shots. Lebron was legendary. The NBA hasn't seen a guy that could dominate the game like him since Shaq was in his prime.

But when it really comes down to it, these teams played basicly to a draw four games in a row. The first 4 games all came down to the final minutes and either team could have won all four, but Miami won 3. And I really believe that in this case the difference wasn't about numbers or talent or who had the most help, it was just good old fashioned experience and toughness that won the day.

As I watched last nights final game I couldn't help but notice the difference in how much more the supporting cast of the the Heat supplied. Battier was really solid on both ends of the floor. Miller shot lights out from 3-point range. Chalmers had some really good moments.

There was even some really good moments where both team had good spacing and made some good passes, as opposed to just individual star dominated play, which seemed to be overwhelmingly present in this series. I remember Durant making a really nice pass on a fast break. Likewise, James hit Chalmers with a nice pass for a three after Chalmers drove the lane, then created spacing by moving to the corner for a spot-up shot.

I agree with Magnus, it appeared the Thunder simply got wore down mentally by a relentless Heat team, while playing on the road in a hostile arena.

shelley_utahjazzfan wrote:

shelley_utahjazzfan wrote:

Probably because it is summer, you aren't an invested fan of either team, and you get the feeling the underdog ain't going to win.

I think the Heat will win the next 3 games and it will be over.

I'm good.

Well. I guess you are. Damn.

Good call, and a "+".

HOW THEY WON IT DEPT:
I thought it was excellent crunch time defense by the Heat that won it for them. Each game, they upped their defensive effort late and the Okies had some bad possessions as a result, when they could afford it least. They D'd up on Durant better than any other team and they took Harden very seriously, shutting him down with sheer effort. And if it was Spoelstra who figured that Westbrook was the guy they could afford to let dominate them, it was some very genius figuring (especially since they didn't really have a matchup to slow him down anyway).

AMERICA YAWNS DEPARTMENT:
Last Thursday night I was at a meeting with 14, 15 other guys, regular guys, not ironic hipsters or mega-geek guys, but real guys, guys who like sports, y'know? And I did not hear one mention of the NBA finals game being played at the same time. Take THAT, Stern! You had better address the officiating, Emperor Stern, rather than making some Jedi hand gestures and telling 50 million complaining customers "You didn't see what you saw. These aren't the rules you're looking for."

Stern suffers from perception bias brought on by hanging mostly around people whose livelihoods depend on the NBA. He clearly has a misimpression of how significant his league is to people living in the real world.

Oh, and speaking of...