Raja refusing a buyout!

He is like a freaking bad case of herpes. Just won't go away.

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/d86ym?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=utah-jazz

I don't know all the details, so probably should not pass judgement, but I am really starting to dislike Bell. Seems like Bell's original theory may have been that he is a very good player, that he should be a starter or at least play major minutes, and that if the Jazz were moving in a different direction and were not going to guarantee him the starting job or minutes, then they should let him go so he can be in that position for another NBA team. If that was indeed the case of Bell's thinking, then the Jazz should have been able to buy him out for very little dollars, with Bell presuming that he is going to be offered the dollars he would have made with the Jazz from another team.

Since the time Bell originally agreed to a buyout, more than likely he and his agent tested the waters and found out that nobody else is interested in picking him up and paying him what he thinks he is worth, or maybe there is no interest at all, so now he likely wants to make sure he gets substantially all the rest of the money on the Jazz contract before he leaves. But from the Jazz point of view, they have already paid him for the two years that he was actually here working for the team, so why should they pay him a lot of the dollars for his third year when he isn't even here?

By the way, if a player retires before his contact is up, does a team have to keep paying him? It looks to me like Portland was still paying Roy big money last year even though he retired, but maybe that was a special medical retirement? I see they amnestied him this year, but somehow the Wolves were able to get him without him going in to the blind pool bidding process. What's up with that?

Lol. Lots of rambling and speculation by me above! If anybody has any more details regarding the Bell situation, I am all ears, but it does seem like Bell sucks.

I think you're right. I think Bell thought there was going to be a market for him. Now he can see there isn't he wants to get as much $ as he can from the Jazz.

Other team's aren't blind. They saw the way Raja played and acted like he was entitled to be a starter and get starter minutes. He isn't a legit NBA player anymore. In hindsight he probably should have gone to the *****, at least there his horrible play would have been somewhat masked by MJ wannabe being a ballhog.

The best thing the Jazz can do now is amnesty him and move on.

actually it's past the amnesty deadline. So there goes that idea

Romoholic wrote:

actually it's past the amnesty deadline. So there goes that idea

Yeah, It is past the amnesty deadline.

From your BleacherReport link in the first post, I read this:

“We’ve been given the greenlight by Utah to go ahead and find something that works for us. We’ve agreed to the terms,” Bell said in July. “So I think it’s safe to say now we are in the market again and we’re entertaining our options at this point.”

It seems possible to me that if O'Conner had a verbal agreement for a reasonable buyout deal with Bell, that he may have made a tactical mistake (or trusting mistake) by letting Bell and his agent explore his options with other teams before the Jazz had Bell legally obligated in writing to carry out that buyout agreement. Bell essentially got to explore his options with other teams while keeping the Jazz contract as a fallback position. On the other hand, maybe O'Conner knew this lack of serious interest from other teams might happen and now expects Bell will come crawling back, behave himself, and be available as a expiring contract to throw in on a trade before the February trade deadline. Who knows? It will be interesting to see what happens on this one.

Crunchtime1 wrote:

It seems possible to me that if O'Conner had a verbal agreement for a reasonable buyout deal with Bell, that he may have made a tactical mistake (or trusting mistake) by letting Bell and his agent explore his options with other teams before the Jazz had Bell legally obligated in writing to carry out that buyout agreement. Bell essentially got to explore his options with other teams while keeping the Jazz contract as a fallback position. On the other hand, maybe O'Conner knew this lack of serious interest from other teams might happen and now expects Bell will come crawling back, behave himself, and be available as a expiring contract to throw in on a trade before the February trade deadline. Who knows? It will be interesting to see what happens on this one.

Yea I think you're pretty close to spot on. But Raja, in his arrogant ways, made a profound mistake in going to the media and announcing that he and the Jazz have come to an agreement. So now he can't even go back ala Boozer did to the Cavs, and say they didn't. So Raja is really screwed for the most part, hah.
I think this goes along with CJ Miles too, who also had an inflated ego and ideas about his worth. Both of them spouted off like they actually had the talent to back it up......So with him, and it's TYPICAL, and the perfect ending to doofy CJ that he now is going to the Fakers. hah!! Typical.

Anyway, so I kind of think KOC now is leaning back saying yea, Raja, what a moron. Either way, they buy him out, or send him to Milwaukee as an expiring and he doesn't play there either.

Now I'm not saying the Jazz should keep him, but maybe just maybe now that he knows that there is close to zero interest in him from other teams, he might be able to STFU and be our 14th man. Yeah he sucks offensively but is still a decent defender.

I don't know though. I really have no interest in ever seeing him in a Jazz uniform again. I feel stupid as hell for actually being excited about the Jazz signing him in the first place.

I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing. With Bell the Jazz have 15 guys. They usually only like to have 14 since it gives them roster flexibility. However, let's just throw Bell out, and say they have 14. Do the Jazz really sign someone else? Outside of backup PG, this team is deep. (These numbers assume they keep Murphy.)

Unless someone blows them away in training camp, like Wesley Matthews, what is the harm in holding onto Bell? I have always felt like they should hold onto him, to see if they can dangle him in a trade, as a salary dump by another team. For example, the Jazz get an injury to the wing, and want help on the wing in mid-december. KOC calls up Danny Ferry and says, "Look, you are a bad team. We both know it. I can save the Hawks 1.5 million. How about a bell/korver swap?" Mutual benefit.

I have said before, unless the Jazz were saving a lot of money, I would like to hold onto him. Now, easy for me to say because it is not my money. However, telling him to not even report to training camp might by the best option. I keep thinking of him used like they used Godon Giricek, where they use an additional asset, but used Giricek to match the salaries in a trade. Remember, Utah still has GS pick, which will be better then Utah's own draft pick if given to Utah, so the Jazz dont really need another one.

Other ideas: I have mentioned bell+Watson+2nd round pick for Udrih if Mil is out of the playoff hunt at the deadline. Prorate the salaries since its halfway through the season, and Mil saves about 1 mil plus get a 2nd round pick. Maybe not enough. Not giving up a 1st round pick, but you get the point.

Juicy idea: Philly struggles. (The one-two punch of lou williams and thaddeus young off the bench is no more, and that is what made them a descent team. Young is still there, but starting.) It looks like GS is in the race, so Utah will probably get the pick. To shed salary, the 76ers give up iggy for marvin williams raja bell and the GS pick. Without bell the salaries dont work.

These are just a few things I have thought of where Bell still helps out Utah. I really look at him as an optional trade exception.

therawns wrote:

I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing. With Bell the Jazz have 15 guys. They usually only like to have 14 since it gives them roster flexibility. However, let's just throw Bell out, and say they have 14. Do the Jazz really sign someone else? Outside of backup PG, this team is deep. (These numbers assume they keep Murphy.)

Unless someone blows them away in training camp, like Wesley Matthews, what is the harm in holding onto Bell? I have always felt like they should hold onto him, to see if they can dangle him in a trade, as a salary dump by another team. For example, the Jazz get an injury to the wing, and want help on the wing in mid-december. KOC calls up Danny Ferry and says, "Look, you are a bad team. We both know it. I can save the Hawks 1.5 million. How about a bell/korver swap?" Mutual benefit.

I have said before, unless the Jazz were saving a lot of money, I would like to hold onto him. Now, easy for me to say because it is not my money. However, telling him to not even report to training camp might by the best option. I keep thinking of him used like they used Godon Giricek, where they use an additional asset, but used Giricek to match the salaries in a trade. Remember, Utah still has GS pick, which will be better then Utah's own draft pick if given to Utah, so the Jazz dont really need another one.

Other ideas: I have mentioned bell+Watson+2nd round pick for Udrih if Mil is out of the playoff hunt at the deadline. Prorate the salaries since its halfway through the season, and Mil saves about 1 mil plus get a 2nd round pick. Maybe not enough. Not giving up a 1st round pick, but you get the point.

Juicy idea: Philly struggles. (The one-two punch of lou williams and thaddeus young off the bench is no more, and that is what made them a descent team. Young is still there, but starting.) It looks like GS is in the race, so Utah will probably get the pick. To shed salary, the 76ers give up iggy for marvin williams raja bell and the GS pick. Without bell the salaries dont work.

These are just a few things I have thought of where Bell still helps out Utah. I really look at him as an optional trade exception.

I agree Bell has value simply because he's an expiring contract which can be thrown in to make the salaries match on a trade or as we near the mid-season trade deadline and some teams begin looking towards next years salary cap space, are willing to make a deal to financially improve their position in preparation for next years draft and free agency.

Only downside I can see, is him being a cancer in the locker room on a team which is quite young, talented and possibly impressionable. This could become quite a headache for the coaching staff.

ptaz66 wrote:

therawns wrote:

I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing. With Bell the Jazz have 15 guys. They usually only like to have 14 since it gives them roster flexibility. However, let's just throw Bell out, and say they have 14. Do the Jazz really sign someone else? Outside of backup PG, this team is deep. (These numbers assume they keep Murphy.)

Unless someone blows them away in training camp, like Wesley Matthews, what is the harm in holding onto Bell? I have always felt like they should hold onto him, to see if they can dangle him in a trade, as a salary dump by another team. For example, the Jazz get an injury to the wing, and want help on the wing in mid-december. KOC calls up Danny Ferry and says, "Look, you are a bad team. We both know it. I can save the Hawks 1.5 million. How about a bell/korver swap?" Mutual benefit.

I have said before, unless the Jazz were saving a lot of money, I would like to hold onto him. Now, easy for me to say because it is not my money. However, telling him to not even report to training camp might by the best option. I keep thinking of him used like they used Godon Giricek, where they use an additional asset, but used Giricek to match the salaries in a trade. Remember, Utah still has GS pick, which will be better then Utah's own draft pick if given to Utah, so the Jazz dont really need another one.

Other ideas: I have mentioned bell+Watson+2nd round pick for Udrih if Mil is out of the playoff hunt at the deadline. Prorate the salaries since its halfway through the season, and Mil saves about 1 mil plus get a 2nd round pick. Maybe not enough. Not giving up a 1st round pick, but you get the point.

Juicy idea: Philly struggles. (The one-two punch of lou williams and thaddeus young off the bench is no more, and that is what made them a descent team. Young is still there, but starting.) It looks like GS is in the race, so Utah will probably get the pick. To shed salary, the 76ers give up iggy for marvin williams raja bell and the GS pick. Without bell the salaries dont work.

These are just a few things I have thought of where Bell still helps out Utah. I really look at him as an optional trade exception.

I agree Bell has value simply because he's an expiring contract which can be thrown in to make the salaries match on a trade or as we near the mid-season trade deadline and some teams begin looking towards next years salary cap space, are willing to make a deal to financially improve their position in preparation for next years draft and free agency.

Only downside I can see, is him being a cancer in the locker room on a team which is quite young, talented and possibly impressionable. This could become quite a headache for the coaching staff.

The team simply cuts/releases him after the trade. Giricek was not in philly very long after being traded along with a first round pick for korver. I have been saying hold onto him, but dont have him in camp. Tell him to stay away. That also would give Utah more leverage in a buy out if Bell really wants to play.

therawns wrote:

ptaz66 wrote:

therawns wrote:

I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing. With Bell the Jazz have 15 guys. They usually only like to have 14 since it gives them roster flexibility. However, let's just throw Bell out, and say they have 14. Do the Jazz really sign someone else? Outside of backup PG, this team is deep. (These numbers assume they keep Murphy.)

Unless someone blows them away in training camp, like Wesley Matthews, what is the harm in holding onto Bell? I have always felt like they should hold onto him, to see if they can dangle him in a trade, as a salary dump by another team. For example, the Jazz get an injury to the wing, and want help on the wing in mid-december. KOC calls up Danny Ferry and says, "Look, you are a bad team. We both know it. I can save the Hawks 1.5 million. How about a bell/korver swap?" Mutual benefit.

I have said before, unless the Jazz were saving a lot of money, I would like to hold onto him. Now, easy for me to say because it is not my money. However, telling him to not even report to training camp might by the best option. I keep thinking of him used like they used Godon Giricek, where they use an additional asset, but used Giricek to match the salaries in a trade. Remember, Utah still has GS pick, which will be better then Utah's own draft pick if given to Utah, so the Jazz dont really need another one.

Other ideas: I have mentioned bell+Watson+2nd round pick for Udrih if Mil is out of the playoff hunt at the deadline. Prorate the salaries since its halfway through the season, and Mil saves about 1 mil plus get a 2nd round pick. Maybe not enough. Not giving up a 1st round pick, but you get the point.

Juicy idea: Philly struggles. (The one-two punch of lou williams and thaddeus young off the bench is no more, and that is what made them a descent team. Young is still there, but starting.) It looks like GS is in the race, so Utah will probably get the pick. To shed salary, the 76ers give up iggy for marvin williams raja bell and the GS pick. Without bell the salaries dont work.

These are just a few things I have thought of where Bell still helps out Utah. I really look at him as an optional trade exception.

I agree Bell has value simply because he's an expiring contract which can be thrown in to make the salaries match on a trade or as we near the mid-season trade deadline and some teams begin looking towards next years salary cap space, are willing to make a deal to financially improve their position in preparation for next years draft and free agency.

Only downside I can see, is him being a cancer in the locker room on a team which is quite young, talented and possibly impressionable. This could become quite a headache for the coaching staff.

The team simply cuts/releases him after the trade. Giricek was not in philly very long after being traded along with a first round pick for korver. I have been saying hold onto him, but dont have him in camp. Tell him to stay away. That also would give Utah more leverage in a buy out if Bell really wants to play.

This last thought makes it even more appealing. No distractions, while maintaining the upside. Nice!

I just wish they could send his ass to the D-League or make him report everyday and be a ball boy until he decides to go away.

rorybreaker wrote:

I just wish they could send his ass to the D-League or make him report everyday and be a ball boy until he decides to go away.

perfect!!! Right where he belongs!! Freaking pussie cant stand by his word. WE DONT WANT YOU HERE BELL! Cancer last year and its time to cut our losses.

I've got it. I joked about sending Raja to Milwaukee, but now I think it's perfect. Larry Sanders is on a rookie contract, and looking like the odd man out with all their bigs. Said he needs to show something serious or he's gone. He's still very young, is a good shot blocker, and plenty of time to improve.
The Bucks are looking to get into the playoffs, and only thing they really could use is some veteran guard leadership. Enter Raja. Perfect fit. He's also expiring so they could just use him to help the players to the playoffs, then he's gone. And Jazz get another young big that can play PF or Center.
That'd be nice.

Mutangclan wrote:

I've got it. I joked about sending Raja to Milwaukee, but now I think it's perfect. Larry Sanders is on a rookie contract, and looking like the odd man out with all their bigs. Said he needs to show something serious or he's gone. He's still very young, is a good shot blocker, and plenty of time to improve.
The Bucks are looking to get into the playoffs, and only thing they really could use is some veteran guard leadership. Enter Raja. Perfect fit. He's also expiring so they could just use him to help the players to the playoffs, then he's gone. And Jazz get another young big that can play PF or Center.
That'd be nice.

Bell strait up for someone? Bell has negative trade value. Everybody knows that Utah wants to get rid of him. The going rate for an early 2nd rounder is usually about 3 mil. With Utah probably getting mid-late 2nd round pick, im not even sure they could call a team up and tell them we will give you bell, if you take our 2nd round pick. 2nd rounders is too much to give up. Let him stay, if he causes a problem, tell him to leave. Hold onto his contract, use it as a salary filler, or just let it run out. It is not really harming Utah cap wise. It is only 3.5 mil, which is not a ton NBA standards.

The thing I keep going back to is the locker room clean out comments. Are those comments the reason why nobody wants him? Yes, Utah has never won it all, but they have to be one of the most respected franchises in the league. (I mean how many bad seasons have they had over the past 25 years?) Utah knows what they are doing. I am not saying they are perfect, but I wonder if some teams look at this by saying, do we trust Utah or Bell more? I dont think Bell has bad credibility around the league, but I wonder, if him bashing the franchise has anything to do with not being signed anywhere else yet.

therawns wrote:

Bell strait up for someone? Bell has negative trade value. Everybody knows that Utah wants to get rid of him. The going rate for an early 2nd rounder is usually about 3 mil. With Utah probably getting mid-late 2nd round pick, im not even sure they could call a team up and tell them we will give you bell, if you take our 2nd round pick. 2nd rounders is too much to give up. Let him stay, if he causes a problem, tell him to leave. Hold onto his contract, use it as a salary filler, or just let it run out. It is not really harming Utah cap wise. It is only 3.5 mil, which is not a ton NBA standards.

The thing I keep going back to is the locker room clean out comments. Are those comments the reason why nobody wants him? Yes, Utah has never won it all, but they have to be one of the most respected franchises in the league. (I mean how many bad seasons have they had over the past 25 years?) Utah knows what they are doing. I am not saying they are perfect, but I wonder if some teams look at this by saying, do we trust Utah or Bell more? I dont think Bell has bad credibility around the league, but I wonder, if him bashing the franchise has anything to do with not being signed anywhere else yet.

Veteran leader/tough guy/3pt shooter/expiring contract, for a young big that the Bucks feel is totally expendable. You dont think the Bucks would be interested?

Mutangclan wrote:

therawns wrote:

Bell strait up for someone? Bell has negative trade value. Everybody knows that Utah wants to get rid of him. The going rate for an early 2nd rounder is usually about 3 mil. With Utah probably getting mid-late 2nd round pick, im not even sure they could call a team up and tell them we will give you bell, if you take our 2nd round pick. 2nd rounders is too much to give up. Let him stay, if he causes a problem, tell him to leave. Hold onto his contract, use it as a salary filler, or just let it run out. It is not really harming Utah cap wise. It is only 3.5 mil, which is not a ton NBA standards.

The thing I keep going back to is the locker room clean out comments. Are those comments the reason why nobody wants him? Yes, Utah has never won it all, but they have to be one of the most respected franchises in the league. (I mean how many bad seasons have they had over the past 25 years?) Utah knows what they are doing. I am not saying they are perfect, but I wonder if some teams look at this by saying, do we trust Utah or Bell more? I dont think Bell has bad credibility around the league, but I wonder, if him bashing the franchise has anything to do with not being signed anywhere else yet.

Veteran leader/tough guy/3pt shooter/expiring contract, for a young big that the Bucks feel is totally expendable. You dont think the Bucks would be interested?

Is a guy that had a blow up with a coach, and bashed the organization after the year, a leader? Yes, veteran, but i wouldnt say leader.

Gotta give some more props to Corbin here...

Who were the two guys that everybody could point to and say "those guys are veterans, but they just aren't getting it done"?

CJ Miles and Raja Bell.

Who are the guys that got cut out of the rotation and started bitching about "not being treated well" and "bad communication"?

CJ Miles and Raja Bell.

I think Corbin proved that his promise to play the best players wasn't just lip service, and the fact that he really seems to be able to identify who his best players are is a good sign for his future in coaching.

therawns wrote:

Veteran leader/tough guy/3pt shooter/expiring contract, for a young big that the Bucks feel is totally expendable. You dont think the Bucks would be interested?

Is a guy that had a blow up with a coach, and bashed the organization after the year, a leader? Yes, veteran, but i wouldnt say leader. [/quote]

Not my opinion, just how he may be looked at. And with a no-nonsense veteran Coach, they may feel Raja would fit right in. I'm sure Skiles feels he could convince Raja to buy in, whether he could or couldn't, and that it was simply the young Corbin that couldn't communicate with Raja.
We all know better.

And Mag, yea agree. Last year I mentioned a few times, how nice it was for Corbin to lay down the law in games, and if you didn't get it done, like CJ, he put his butt on the bench. Very very enjoyable to watch.

Mutangclan wrote:

therawns wrote:

Veteran leader/tough guy/3pt shooter/expiring contract, for a young big that the Bucks feel is totally expendable. You dont think the Bucks would be interested?

Is a guy that had a blow up with a coach, and bashed the organization after the year, a leader? Yes, veteran, but i wouldnt say leader.

Not my opinion, just how he may be looked at. And with a no-nonsense veteran Coach, they may feel Raja would fit right in. I'm sure Skiles feels he could convince Raja to buy in, whether he could or couldn't, and that it was simply the young Corbin that couldn't communicate with Raja.
We all know better.

And Mag, yea agree. Last year I mentioned a few times, how nice it was for Corbin to lay down the law in games, and if you didn't get it done, like CJ, he put his butt on the bench. Very very enjoyable to watch. [/quote]

Bell didnt get it done last year either. Miles has one thing Bell does not. Time. Miles can still turn it around. I doubt it, but he is still young. Bell on the other hand is done. I am not giving anything up for a player probably in his final year that is at the end of the bench.

According to the Trib, Bell isn't expected to show up to camp even though he's still technically on contract, and all parties seem to feel that his time in Utah is done.

That's good news to me, I was afraid that he would back out on the buyout when he saw nobody else wanted him and the Jazz, being who they are, would just call it water under the bridge and put him back with the team, but it looks like that isn't going to happen, and I think that is a good thing.

TheMagnus wrote:

According to the Trib, Bell isn't expected to show up to camp even though he's still technically on contract, and all parties seem to feel that his time in Utah is done.

That's good news to me, I was afraid that he would back out on the buyout when he saw nobody else wanted him and the Jazz, being who they are, would just call it water under the bridge and put him back with the team, but it looks like that isn't going to happen, and I think that is a good thing.

What is your guess? Buy-out? A trade for a low second round pick? Surely there is a good team out there that needs 5 minutes a night of Bell's better than average, (not shut down anymore) defense, 3rd option shooting guard?????

MTJazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

According to the Trib, Bell isn't expected to show up to camp even though he's still technically on contract, and all parties seem to feel that his time in Utah is done.

That's good news to me, I was afraid that he would back out on the buyout when he saw nobody else wanted him and the Jazz, being who they are, would just call it water under the bridge and put him back with the team, but it looks like that isn't going to happen, and I think that is a good thing.

What is your guess? Buy-out? A trade for a low second round pick? Surely there is a good team out there that needs 5 minutes a night of Bell's better than average, (not shut down anymore) defense, 3rd option shooting guard?????

He will be bought out IF there is a wesley matthews in camp. I have been preaching unless they save a boat load of money, there is little upside to buying him out. With Bell, you have 15 guys. No need to cut anybody. I look at Bell as an insurance policy. Let's say there is an injury. The Jazz use a future pick + bell as the salary filler to replace the injured player in a trade. Similar to the Korver trade where they used giricek as the salary filler.

therawns wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

According to the Trib, Bell isn't expected to show up to camp even though he's still technically on contract, and all parties seem to feel that his time in Utah is done.

That's good news to me, I was afraid that he would back out on the buyout when he saw nobody else wanted him and the Jazz, being who they are, would just call it water under the bridge and put him back with the team, but it looks like that isn't going to happen, and I think that is a good thing.

What is your guess? Buy-out? A trade for a low second round pick? Surely there is a good team out there that needs 5 minutes a night of Bell's better than average, (not shut down anymore) defense, 3rd option shooting guard?????

He will be bought out IF there is a wesley matthews in camp. I have been preaching unless they save a boat load of money, there is little upside to buying him out. With Bell, you have 15 guys. No need to cut anybody. I look at Bell as an insurance policy. Let's say there is an injury. The Jazz use a future pick + bell as the salary filler to replace the injured player in a trade. Similar to the Korver trade where they used giricek as the salary filler.

Fair point Rawns, but doesn't having him "on the team" but such a cancer that he can't practice or be in the facility kind of kill his value to like next to nothing? Seems like a bad call on both his and the team's part. If I'm Raja and actually want to still play in the league his only shot is getting started somewhere else right now. Also, I'm not sure the Wes Matthews bar is appropriate. Those guys don't come along that often yet there are craploads of guys with potential, like Murphy for instance. If you're going to carry 15 guys why not have guy #15 be a guy with potential that another team can see as well? If I'm the other team I'd rather have potential than a salary filler who I was then going to waive anyway. Am I missing something?

Without definitely knowing all the ins and outs of it all, I'm looking at Raja the way Kaman was handled last year. And he's even a good player. The Hornets told him flat out to stay home. That they were looking at ways to trade him, or move him somehow or buy him out.
With what the Trib is saying, maybe they just do tell him to stay home. Hopefully.