What is wrong with the Jazz?

Call it early season jitters or lots of road games but I am already concerned that the Jazz are playing way below their potential, and that 5-6 record should be 8-3 at least. While I'm sure many here feel the Jazz are probably playing at their ability level, I disagree based strictly on the talent on the team. A 2-2 road trip masks the fact they lost to New Orleans and barely got it together to beat the worst team in the league, the Wiz. Following is my take on what is broken so far:

1) Underutilization/performance of the bigs. Pointed out by others, the Jazz have been less than dominant in the paint despite having one of the best rotations on paper in the league in that spot. If Big Al doesn't go off they are collectivley below average on the stats sheets. I put this on coaching - not getting bigs the ball in the right spot and the wholesale abandonment of the pick and roll.

2) Poor outside shooting. Again, another season where most nights the wings scare no one. Foye is streaky as hell, Gordon, while hustling, shows no consistency from range, Burks is AWOL and Marvin and Mo uneven.

3) Mo is not the answer. Great one night, average or below average the next. Feels a lot like the Devin Harris show to me. For all that goes, Tinsley is not the answer, much less Watson. The Jazz are understaffed at the point.

4) Coaching. I don't get it. Formulaic substitutions. Leaving Foye in on nights he can't hit the broad side of the barn, or Millsap, for all that goes. Keeping DC in purgatory until recently even though it was obvious beginning last season he is a valuable intangibles glue guy who should see the floor for 10-15 minutes every night. Also don't think Kanter is getting a fair shake.

5) Dead wood bench. Start with Raja even being on the roster, Watson in suit and tie, (which should stay on for the rest of the season as an assistant coach), Tinsley who should be the insurance 3rd PG, Burks rotting away either because of bad attitude or everyone was wrong and he really isn't very good. What is the purpose of Jeremy Evans if he doesn't get plugged in for 5 high energy minutes every night? Who is Kevin Murphy and what is the point of him on the roster if he doesn't even get garbage minutes?

6) Jazz road curse. For whatever reason the Jazz have proven over the last several years they mentally fall apart on the road, losing to inferior teams with regularity. There is a missing killer mentality when they are on the road, a lack of toughness they show in front of the home fans. If they can't start coming up with more road wins it will be a fight for the last playoff seed like last year - not a season moving forward, one treading water despite the off-season "upgrades".

They're playing good defense but man, move without the ball on offense guys.
These young studs should be pushing it for early breaks then slow it down if nothing materializes.
Im hopeful they'll still be great at home but there's no chance against the Spurs, Thunder, Clips, and Lakers in the playoffs. Even Memphis is looking Stellar.
I'll be happy with sneaking in the playoffs this yr and hopefully getting a stud or two next yr.

MTJazz wrote:

Call it early season jitters or lots of road games but I am already concerned that the Jazz are playing way below their potential, and that 5-6 record should be 8-3 at least. While I'm sure many here feel the Jazz are probably playing at their ability level, I disagree based strictly on the talent on the team. A 2-2 road trip masks the fact they lost to New Orleans and barely got it together to beat the worst team in the league, the Wiz. Following is my take on what is broken so far:

1) Underutilization/performance of the bigs. Pointed out by others, the Jazz have been less than dominant in the paint despite having one of the best rotations on paper in the league in that spot. If Big Al doesn't go off they are collectivley below average on the stats sheets. I put this on coaching - not getting bigs the ball in the right spot and the wholesale abandonment of the pick and roll.

2) Poor outside shooting. Again, another season where most nights the wings scare no one. Foye is streaky as hell, Gordon, while hustling, shows no consistency from range, Burks is AWOL and Marvin and Mo uneven.

3) Mo is not the answer. Great one night, average or below average the next. Feels a lot like the Devin Harris show to me. For all that goes, Tinsley is not the answer, much less Watson. The Jazz are understaffed at the point.

4) Coaching. I don't get it. Formulaic substitutions. Leaving Foye in on nights he can't hit the broad side of the barn, or Millsap, for all that goes. Keeping DC in purgatory until recently even though it was obvious beginning last season he is a valuable intangibles glue guy who should see the floor for 10-15 minutes every night. Also don't think Kanter is getting a fair shake.

5) Dead wood bench. Start with Raja even being on the roster, Watson in suit and tie, (which should stay on for the rest of the season as an assistant coach), Tinsley who should be the insurance 3rd PG, Burks rotting away either because of bad attitude or everyone was wrong and he really isn't very good. What is the purpose of Jeremy Evans if he doesn't get plugged in for 5 high energy minutes every night? Who is Kevin Murphy and what is the point of him on the roster if he doesn't even get garbage minutes?

6) Jazz road curse. For whatever reason the Jazz have proven over the last several years they mentally fall apart on the road, losing to inferior teams with regularity. There is a missing killer mentality when they are on the road, a lack of toughness they show in front of the home fans. If they can't start coming up with more road wins it will be a fight for the last playoff seed like last year - not a season moving forward, one treading water despite the off-season "upgrades".

6-6 after 12 games is great considering they have only had 4 home games. ill take that everyday.

There is nothing wrong with them at this point. It's going to take some time to get everthing worked out. The win tonight moved them into 7th in the west. I know it doesn't mean anything at this point of the season, but I'm loving seeing the lakers in 10th in the west. It just feels right

Romoholic wrote:

There is nothing wrong with them at this point. It's going to take some time to get everthing worked out. The win tonight moved them into 7th in the west. I know it doesn't mean anything at this point of the season, but I'm loving seeing the lakers in 10th in the west. It just feels right

Ya, don't get too comfortable with that. Things are slowly being set right in the West after that weird start.

The Mavericks and Trailblazers coming back to earth after starting way better than they actually are, the T-Wolves are playing the .500 ball we expected when Love got hurt, and the Lakers have won 4 of their last 5 by double digits, their only loss coming by 2 points to the Spurs.

There are 4 teams right now clearly at the top of the West, the Spurs, Grizzlies, Clippers, and Thunder, I think the Lakers will soon join them and those 5 teams will have the top 5 seeds, after that I think it is literally anyone's game...accept the Kings, they are awful. Also, if that does end up being true, I think the last 3 playoff spots all go to the Northwest division, Utah, Minnesota, Denver.

TheMagnus wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

There is nothing wrong with them at this point. It's going to take some time to get everthing worked out. The win tonight moved them into 7th in the west. I know it doesn't mean anything at this point of the season, but I'm loving seeing the lakers in 10th in the west. It just feels right

Ya, don't get too comfortable with that. Things are slowly being set right in the West after that weird start.

The Mavericks and Trailblazers coming back to earth after starting way better than they actually are, the T-Wolves are playing the .500 ball we expected when Love got hurt, and the Lakers have won 4 of their last 5 by double digits, their only loss coming by 2 points to the Spurs.

There are 4 teams right now clearly at the top of the West, the Spurs, Grizzlies, Clippers, and Thunder, I think the Lakers will soon join them and those 5 teams will have the top 5 seeds, after that I think it is literally anyone's game...accept the Kings, they are awful.

Maybe, but the Lakers are still an OLD team with a lot of injuries waiting to happen. Kobe goes down and they don't win a game with him out.

Either way though, the Jazz are going to be a playoff team like we all thought they were. They will struggle to win on the road and will be pretty dominate at home. They obviously aren't ready to challenge in the west like some of us thought they would, but they are still a playoff team, and will finish somewhere between 5th to 8th in the west.

Romoholic wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

There is nothing wrong with them at this point. It's going to take some time to get everthing worked out. The win tonight moved them into 7th in the west. I know it doesn't mean anything at this point of the season, but I'm loving seeing the lakers in 10th in the west. It just feels right

Ya, don't get too comfortable with that. Things are slowly being set right in the West after that weird start.

The Mavericks and Trailblazers coming back to earth after starting way better than they actually are, the T-Wolves are playing the .500 ball we expected when Love got hurt, and the Lakers have won 4 of their last 5 by double digits, their only loss coming by 2 points to the Spurs.

There are 4 teams right now clearly at the top of the West, the Spurs, Grizzlies, Clippers, and Thunder, I think the Lakers will soon join them and those 5 teams will have the top 5 seeds, after that I think it is literally anyone's game...accept the Kings, they are awful.

Maybe, but the Lakers are still an OLD team with a lot of injuries waiting to happen. Kobe goes down and they don't win a game with him out.

Either way though, the Jazz are going to be a playoff team like we all thought they were. They will struggle to win on the road and will be pretty dominate at home. They obviously aren't ready to challenge in the west like some of us thought they would, but they are still a playoff team, and will finish somewhere between 5th to 8th in the west.

I'm not going all negative, but beating up on an undermanned Houston at home doesn't make me question what I did. While I hope the Jazz do sort out the "growing pains" they are patterning on the last 3 years of horrible road play and streaky outside shooting. Last night Marvin and Foye had it dialed which makes me predict that next game they stink it up. There is a mental issue as much as anything going on and that indirectly ties into coaching, getting the team focused and dialed, the killer instinct to put teams away among other things.

And yes, how sweet is the Lakies sitting at #10, given they have played what, like 2 road games so far? Sweet!

therawns wrote:

6-6 after 12 games is great considering they have only had 4 home games. ill take that everyday.

The record is fine, but it's been ugly. Even the wins aren't what I would consider "quality". They've won most of those games based on hustle, hitting 3's, running, etc, but not on actually executing any kind of real offense. If they don't score in transition then they seem to be screwed, playing one on one ball. Well coached teams that play good defense won't be beat by the Jazz at this point IMO. Teams that are willing to get into a track meet & play some good rec league ball, are the teams the Jazz can/should beat.

I'm happy to see some of the new rotations. It shows that coach is willing to try some new things & understands that the way things are currently aren't working, but I am getting seriously worried about the complete lack of execution on this team. It seems like they are trying to rely purely individual talents instead of working as a unit.

zero24gravity wrote:

therawns wrote:

6-6 after 12 games is great considering they have only had 4 home games. ill take that everyday.

The record is fine, but it's been ugly. Even the wins aren't what I would consider "quality". They've won most of those games based on hustle, hitting 3's, running, etc, but not on actually executing any kind of real offense. If they don't score in transition then they seem to be screwed, playing one on one ball. Well coached teams that play good defense won't be beat by the Jazz at this point IMO. Teams that are willing to get into a track meet & play some good rec league ball, are the teams the Jazz can/should beat.

I'm happy to see some of the new rotations. It shows that coach is willing to try some new things & understands that the way things are currently aren't working, but I am getting seriously worried about the complete lack of execution on this team. It seems like they are trying to rely purely individual talents instead of working as a unit.

Yeah, what you said. What is up with the lack of a half-court game offense, anyway? Unless they somehow adjust/gel they are going to lose to a lot of teams who play disciplined defense. Remember when the problem was the opposite? The Jazz had a fearful half court game but not "athletic" enough to win a track meet. Again, barring some patience here as things sort out, I really question why the coaching staff hasn't drilled down on a structured half court offense. Its one thing if the wings are actually hitting outside shots, but when they are just OK or plain suck, where is the offense coming from? Without Big Al I feel like there is no inside avenue of scoring, and the team can't ride Al every night.

MTJazz wrote:

Without Big Al I feel like there is no inside avenue of scoring, and the team can't ride Al every night.

Problem with riding Big Al is that he seems to have regressed in his defensive rotations & also is falling back into being the "black hole". I wonder if he is feeling like his scoring average isn't high enough or something, because I think he's fallen back a step when it comes to being a more well-rounded player.

zero24gravity wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

Without Big Al I feel like there is no inside avenue of scoring, and the team can't ride Al every night.

Problem with riding Big Al is that he seems to have regressed in his defensive rotations & also is falling back into being the "black hole". I wonder if he is feeling like his scoring average isn't high enough or something, because I think he's fallen back a step when it comes to being a more well-rounded player.

To my point about relying on Big Al - a bit of a gamble, (though last night he made some nice passes out of the post). We need a structured half-court offense where the first look is a lay-up/dunk, the second a post-up and third is the open wing. That means all five guys on the floor via picks, cuts and spotting up have a chance for a good shot. It could even include sending in Jeremy Evans for 3 minutes and 3 alley-oops

There is reason for concern for sure, but I just think it's going to take some time to get the kinks worked out. Plus we had a shit ton of road games to start the year out. I'm not going to be all that concerned until maybe the all star break. If they are still struggling to stay around .500 then I might get worried.

Plus I think if Corbin keeps starting Favors, he will improve a lot as the year goes on. Not to mention Milsap getting more comfortable at the 3. He probably should have had that lineup installed in the pre season though.

Romoholic wrote:

There is reason for concern for sure, but I just think it's going to take some time to get the kinks worked out. Plus we had a shit ton of road games to start the year out. I'm not going to be all that concerned until maybe the all star break. If they are still struggling to stay around .500 then I might get worried.

Plus I think if Corbin keeps starting Favors, he will improve a lot as the year goes on. Not to mention Milsap getting more comfortable at the 3. He probably should have had that lineup installed in the pre season though.

Dude, you have gotten so reasonable and patient! I'm trying to inflame passions - work with me, bro.

Seriously though, I am not even close to happy with 0.500 at the All-Star break, that is not going to represent the talent on the floor. Call me a homer or failing to realize the other teams all got better as well, but I see no reason in the world the Jazz can't go end-to-end, with the talent they have today, bouncing around between the 4-5 seed, which is going to take way more than 0.500 ball. Let us hope when the schedule tide shifts to shitloads of home games the Jazz can separate a little bit. In the end, as we have learned over the last 3 years, if you can't win on the road against shitty EC teams it is pretty bleak in the WCF seedings. I will respectfully expect much more out of the players and coaches until...I hold my head and weep.

MTJazz wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

There is reason for concern for sure, but I just think it's going to take some time to get the kinks worked out. Plus we had a shit ton of road games to start the year out. I'm not going to be all that concerned until maybe the all star break. If they are still struggling to stay around .500 then I might get worried.

Plus I think if Corbin keeps starting Favors, he will improve a lot as the year goes on. Not to mention Milsap getting more comfortable at the 3. He probably should have had that lineup installed in the pre season though.

Dude, you have gotten so reasonable and patient! I'm trying to inflame passions - work with me, bro.

Seriously though, I am not even close to happy with 0.500 at the All-Star break, that is not going to represent the talent on the floor. Call me a homer or failing to realize the other teams all got better as well, but I see no reason in the world the Jazz can't go end-to-end, with the talent they have today, bouncing around between the 4-5 seed, which is going to take way more than 0.500 ball. Let us hope when the schedule tide shifts to shitloads of home games the Jazz can separate a little bit. In the end, as we have learned over the last 3 years, if you can't win on the road against shitty EC teams it is pretty bleak in the WCF seedings. I will respectfully expect much more out of the players and coaches until...I hold my head and weep.

I guess I have just come to accept that until Favors, Hayward, and Kanter start playing at a higher level, we aren't going to be a real contender. Al, Milsap, Mo and Foye are fine, but we need the young guys to show that the are going to be consistent high level contributors for the Jazz to have any real chance at competing.

I also think that we may have all gotten a little too exited about the additions of Mo, Marvin and Foye. I mean they are all decent players, but none of them are consistent. Mo is a upgrade to Devin, but still makes a lot of stupid plays and tends to get on his chucker sprees too often. Marvin is about the same guy he was in Atlanta and Foye will come in and knock down a couple threes a game, but doesn't do much else. Al and Milsap have dropped off big time this season. Some games Sap can't throw it in the ocean, but still rebounds well. Al on the other had, when he struggles on offense, he is a worthless player. Favors has only shown glimpses of what we are all expecting to be, just like last season, and Kanter has just been flat out bad when he gets on the court. Like everyone else he has his flashes, but that's about it.

Hayward just isn't as good as I though he would be. I know there is a lot of debate on here about how long it should take him to develop, but I'm gonna stand by my thought that he is already what he is ever going to be.

I guess the bottom line is, we have a lot of good players, but not one great one. This Jazz team is full of inconsistent players. We never get more than 2 guys playing lights out on the same night. That's not going to cut it in the west. The team just doesn't have the talent that we all thought the had.

I think the front office is starting to realize this and I see at least one trade coming soon. IF we could ever get all our starters clicking at the same time, we could have a deadly team

While I agree with some of what you say, (Jazz not a contender yet, but we didn't expect that yet, right?), I think you are being too hard on GH and Enes. GH is putting in 14 ppg and making a lot of other stuff happen most nights. And Kanter is still top 10 rebounder in league per, given that he doesn't get serious minutes and is showing more than flashes. Agree that the braintrust is probably scheming a deal to shake things up as so far the talent isn't meshing as it should on paper and damn, the Jazz have trade assets up the butt in expirings and throw-ins. I was pretty bullish on the current roster until I watched them play 12 games and now I'm like, "What the hell, lets shake it up a bit with a lateral but good long-term deal or two. Paul has been the big disappointment in my book; as you say, regression. Al seems the same if not a tiny bit fading. At this rate it will be same old same old, so why not roll the dice? You know KOC wasn't happy about Paul not extending and Al never got the offer as far as we know. Things are gonna shake.

MTJazz wrote:

While I agree with some of what you say, (Jazz not a contender yet, but we didn't expect that yet, right?), I think you are being too hard on GH and Enes. GH is putting in 14 ppg and making a lot of other stuff happen most nights. And Kanter is still top 10 rebounder in league per, given that he doesn't get serious minutes and is showing more than flashes. Agree that the braintrust is probably scheming a deal to shake things up as so far the talent isn't meshing as it should on paper and damn, the Jazz have trade assets up the butt in expirings and throw-ins. I was pretty bullish on the current roster until I watched them play 12 games and now I'm like, "What the hell, lets shake it up a bit with a lateral but good long-term deal or two. Paul has been the big disappointment in my book; as you say, regression. Al seems the same if not a tiny bit fading. At this rate it will be same old same old, so why not roll the dice? You know KOC wasn't happy about Paul not extending and Al never got the offer as far as we know. Things are gonna shake.

I don't know, Maybe I am being to hard on Gordo. I just don't see him impact the game when it matters most. Damn I want the kid to be a stud, I just don't know if its coming. As far as Kanter goes, he is just not going to get the minutes to really develop. At least not until Al or Paul are gone.

I just rarely come away from a game where I was really impressed with any single player. Favors flashes, but fouls too much and is still only getting 24 mins a game. A lot of the fouls are horseshit calls though. It's like the refs can't believe someone can make that kind of defensive play so they blow the whistle. I've seen probably 15 blocks this year that Favors was called a foul on that were clean as hell.

MTJazz wrote:

While I agree with some of what you say, (Jazz not a contender yet, but we didn't expect that yet, right?), I think you are being too hard on GH and Enes. GH is putting in 14 ppg and making a lot of other stuff happen most nights. And Kanter is still top 10 rebounder in league per, given that he doesn't get serious minutes and is showing more than flashes. Agree that the braintrust is probably scheming a deal to shake things up as so far the talent isn't meshing as it should on paper and damn, the Jazz have trade assets up the butt in expirings and throw-ins. I was pretty bullish on the current roster until I watched them play 12 games and now I'm like, "What the hell, lets shake it up a bit with a lateral but good long-term deal or two. Paul has been the big disappointment in my book; as you say, regression. Al seems the same if not a tiny bit fading. At this rate it will be same old same old, so why not roll the dice? You know KOC wasn't happy about Paul not extending and Al never got the offer as far as we know. Things are gonna shake.

Come on, you can't expect consistent play when roster and PT is shuffled all the time. And any trade will make things (chemistry) worse. That was what killed Boston chances for secon ring - "tinkling" and stirring around "big four". Perkins, House, Rasheed for the start - and then just non-stop. That was also the reason why I stop to root for Boston completely.

Jazz have to harmonize and TUNE their team according COACH VISION (Sloan at least hd some!) but not shake roster hoping that puzzle somehow falls in rught pattern. It is possible, but will need zillion of years for that.

vryadli wrote:

Come on, you can't expect consistent play when roster and PT is shuffled all the time. And any trade will make things (chemistry) worse. That was what killed Boston chances for secon ring - "tinkling" and stirring around "big four". Perkins, House, Rasheed for the start - and then just non-stop. That was also the reason why I stop to root for Boston completely.

Jazz have to harmonize and TUNE their team according COACH VISION (Sloan at least hd some!) but not shake roster hoping that puzzle somehow falls in rught pattern. It is possible, but will need zillion of years for that.

While I get your point V, even if the chemistry was there, what is the realistic cieling for this team? Does this team approach that even if every thing was just left the way it is? Even if the Chemistry was perfect, could this team contend?

If the answer to the last two questions is no, and I'd argue that it is, then the difference between shaking the etch-a-sketch one more time and not really isn't all that big.

The thing that kept the Celtics from a second championship was the fact that thier window was closing before they won their first championship, from that point on every one of their key players accept Rondo was either hurt or regressing.


Also, I think the word you were looking for is "tinkering" not "tinkling".

Romoholic wrote:

I don't know, Maybe I am being to hard on Gordo. I just don't see him impact the game when it matters most. Damn I want the kid to be a stud, I just don't know if its coming. As far as Kanter goes, he is just not going to get the minutes to really develop. At least not until Al or Paul are gone.

I just rarely come away from a game where I was really impressed with any single player. Favors flashes, but fouls too much and is still only getting 24 mins a game. A lot of the fouls are horseshit calls though. It's like the refs can't believe someone can make that kind of defensive play so they blow the whistle. I've seen probably 15 blocks this year that Favors was called a foul on that were clean as hell.

Wheler will be good, not a stud but close for most nights; but it will be later in his career, probably at 28 or 29, when his lack of toughness will be overshadowed by his natural character development.

Kanter needs to play, and he won't until Al and/or Paul finally part ways with Utah. As much as I like Paul, in my mind he's the odd man out if the Jazz decide to let go only one of the pair.

Favors won't get respect until the Jazz play him 30+ minutes. If you use him as a role dude don't ask the refs to cal him as a star. That said you're right, he's been called some BS fouls.

TheMagnus wrote:

While I get your point V, even if the chemistry was there, what is the realistic cieling for this team? Does this team approach that even if every thing was just left the way it is? Even if the Chemistry was perfect, could this team contend?

If the answer to the last two questions is no, and I'd argue that it is, then the difference between shaking the etch-a-sketch one more time and not really isn't all that big.

The thing that kept the Celtics from a second championship was the fact that thier window was closing before they won their first championship, from that point on every one of their key players accept Rondo was either hurt or regressing.


Also, I think the word you were looking for is "tinkering" not "tinkling".

Yes, tinkering.

Window of posiibilities? Look on last Rasheed Wolees performaces. Look on Tim D. and Spurs. Allen window closed? Relly?

No, I don't think window was closed on third or 4-th year, not because of age anyhow. If older guys sloed ltiny bit, Rondo was improving each year. The biggest problem was lack of cohesion in second unit.

Realistcally which is more realistic for that team- to improve cohesion and develop young players - which gives a strong sinergy or to get 3 superstar to compete with Miami and Lakers?

I think current team going first direction can hope for conference final. On the second direction play-off are very quiestonable. The only exception on star-wway for small market team is to get a player with Dunkan-Durant mentality, the perennial stud who will attract other stars. But guest-stars will do no good.

MtJazz wrote:

Paul has been the big disappointment in my book; as you say, regression.

I am not worried about whether Millsap is going to perform. If we had checked the various productivity stats per 48 after 10 games instead of 12, I think he would have been about where he was last season at most stat services, which was pretty darn good. Even when checking a few stat services right now, after a couple of sub par offensive games, he is pretty close to where he was the end of last season. And how about the increased rebounds per game and 55% three point shooting? That is a nice development.

NBA Efficiency/48 mins: 29.99 now versus 30.73 last season.
Tendex/48 mins: 29.52 now versus 29.67 last season.
ESPN PER: 20.57 now versus 21.85 last season.

I think a key to our team will be Mo continuing to make progress going from a shoot first, Vinnie the microwave type guy off the bench to a more traditional point guard. He is working on it. 6.8 apg isn't a bad start. Our big men should be beneficiaries as Mo continues to make the transition. JMO. Good article about Mo here:

Mo Williams Still Finding His Way With the Team
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/55318488-87/williams-jazz-guard-game.html.csp

Crunchtime1 wrote:

MtJazz wrote:

Paul has been the big disappointment in my book; as you say, regression.

I am not worried about whether Millsap is going to perform. If we had checked the various productivity stats per 48 after 10 games instead of 12, I think he would have been about where he was last season at most stat services, which was pretty darn good. Even when checking a few stat services right now, after a couple of sub par offensive games, he is pretty close to where he was the end of last season. And how about the increased rebounds per game and 55% three point shooting? That is a nice development.

NBA Efficiency/48 mins: 29.99 now versus 30.73 last season.
Tendex/48 mins: 29.52 now versus 29.67 last season.
ESPN PER: 20.57 now versus 21.85 last season.

I think a key to our team will be Mo continuing to make progress going from a shoot first, Vinnie the microwave type guy off the bench to a more traditional point guard. He is working on it. 6.8 apg isn't a bad start. Our big men should be beneficiaries as Mo continues to make the transition. JMO. Good article about Mo here:

Mo Williams Still Finding His Way With the Team
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/55318488-87/williams-jazz-guard-game.html.csp

good article, I like his effort and mentality to learn his new team mates sweet spots on the floor. We'll see, though, I'm not convinced he can become the assist guy the team needs. Or at least someone else, (Gordo?) has to pick up some of the slack on facilitating other guys game. Tinsley is schooling everyone with his assists per but unfortunately he can't guard a paper bag.

TheMagnus wrote:

While I get your point V, even if the chemistry was there, what is the realistic cieling for this team? Does this team approach that even if every thing was just left the way it is? Even if the Chemistry was perfect, could this team contend?

If the answer to the last two questions is no, and I'd argue that it is, then the difference between shaking the etch-a-sketch one more time and not really isn't all that big.

The thing that kept the Celtics from a second championship was the fact that thier window was closing before they won their first championship, from that point on every one of their key players accept Rondo was either hurt or regressing.


Also, I think the word you were looking for is "tinkering" not "tinkling".

I'm all for tinkling and I'm usually pretty conservative in that department. I'm thinking the team is showing some ceiling already and I think it has to do with only getting OK performance out of the wings. Foye is not the answer at the 2 spot and apparently Burks isn't either. And there is the question of development time for Enes, which I would like to see acccelerated. Millsap or Al plus parts would equal a quality starting wing.

What the jazz need to do is trade for Tyreke Evans. He will be the solution at pg. The kings have mishandled him very bad. The dude had a better rookie season than any of the stars in the league today, like lebron and KD. And he did it when he played pg. The kings then moved him to Sg in his second season and he regressed then moved him to sf in his third and he regressed some more. Had they just left him at pg the kings would be much better and tyreke would be a top 3 guard. This is just my opinion but I think that would be a huge step to becoming true contenders. If we could pull some trades to get Evans and Rudy Gay while keeping Favors and Gordon, we would be contenders and our perimeter defense and penetration would be top 5 in the league, plus we would be getting rid of our pick and roll problems solved. What do you guys think about that scenario

T-Wick wrote:

What the jazz need to do is trade for Tyreke Evans. He will be the solution at pg. The kings have mishandled him very bad. The dude had a better rookie season than any of the stars in the league today, like lebron and KD. And he did it when he played pg. The kings then moved him to Sg in his second season and he regressed then moved him to sf in his third and he regressed some more. Had they just left him at pg the kings would be much better and tyreke would be a top 3 guard. This is just my opinion but I think that would be a huge step to becoming true contenders. If we could pull some trades to get Evans and Rudy Gay while keeping Favors and Gordon, we would be contenders and our perimeter defense and penetration would be top 5 in the league, plus we would be getting rid of our pick and roll problems solved. What do you guys think about that scenario

He is a restricted FA after the year. utah could very very easily go after him in the offseason. This is intriguing.