The FINAL Dwill Post...done and done!

Dwill settles those who griped......


"I've really had injuries while I've been with (the Nets) the whole time. And didn't have the talent around me that I did (with the Jazz). And that system (in Utah) was a great system for my style of play. I'm a system player, and I loved Coach (Jerry) Sloan's system. I loved the offense there."

"I understand what they were doing," he said. "It was smart on their [part], because there was a possibility that I wouldn't have come back."

I never had a problem with the trade. I was going to miss Dwill, but knew KOC raped the Nets , when they were absolutely at their lowest. Great move.

Here's a link:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsjazznotes/55485741-62/williams-system-offense-york.html.csp

Sounds to me like Deron may be lobbying publicly for a coaching change and trying to recruit Jerry to be that new coach at the same time.

I'd rather he demanded a trade back to Utah.

zero24gravity wrote:

Sounds to me like Deron may be lobbying publicly for a coaching change and trying to recruit Jerry to be that new coach at the same time.

I'd rather he demanded a trade back to Utah.

Man, would that be unbelieveable or what? With this team.....trade Al or Paul and the pick etc.....Hah. Funny we have the assets too. But never happen.

I do think it's funny now too, because there were plenty of people, certainly on here, that said Sloan ruined Deron etc. Wonder where they are now????

I didn't think it was smart for Deron to sign with the Nets in the off season anyway. He or the Jazz should have tested the waters with the others interest. Deron will never be as good in Brooklyn as he was here.

Deron is like the super hot ex that was great in the sack You know it's probably best that you both moved on, but damn you miss it sometimes.

DWill is still one of my favorite players to watch in the NBA I will always be a fan he has never said any negative stuff at all about the Jazz he is a class guy not too many of them in this league IMO. I like what he says in this link below good stuff.


http://www.hoopsworld.com/deron-williams-i-wont-bad-mouth-utah/

dongibby wrote:

DWill is still one of my favorite players to watch in the NBA I will always be a fan he has never said any negative stuff at all about the Jazz he is a class guy not too many of them in this league IMO. I like what he says in this link below good stuff.


http://www.hoopsworld.com/deron-williams-i-wont-bad-mouth-utah/

Yeah me too. I love watching him play. Even against the Jazz, when he makes a good play I kinda just smile and shake my head.

I definitely don't miss Dwill at all. We've hashed this out many times but: a) he did Utah no favors by making it clear he was not going to re-sign well before his contract was up and the b) locker room turmoil he was dead center in. I see him as a bit of a mercenary, all about him. Would not be the slightest bit surprised to see him on at least a couple more teams before his fading career is over doing some title chasing. Ain't gonna sniff one with the line-up in NJ without another major piece or two. His salary is not going to help make that happen. And speaking of, dude is not playing up to the marquee money he is making. I think very quickly he is going to be in the upper middle tier of NBA PG's (Hollinger has him currently ranked at #20). For example, Lilliard, Irving and Kemba are already outplaying him on rookie contracts.

MTJazz wrote:

I definitely don't miss Dwill at all. We've hashed this out many times but: a) he did Utah no favors by making it clear he was not going to re-sign well before his contract was up and the b) locker room turmoil he was dead center in. I see him as a bit of a mercenary, all about him. Would not be the slightest bit surprised to see him on at least a couple more teams before his fading career is over doing some title chasing. Ain't gonna sniff one with the line-up in NJ without another major piece or two. His salary is not going to help make that happen. And speaking of, dude is not playing up to the marquee money he is making. I think very quickly he is going to be in the upper middle tier of NBA PG's (Hollinger has him currently ranked at #20). For example, Lilliard, Irving and Kemba are already outplaying him on rookie contracts.

Dunno, Mountain-- I kinda have to agree with Don and Romo. D-Will is still a player to watch. I liked our trade of D-Will in part because I overestimated Devin Harris' potential. But, I still like what we got for the trade.

I kinda agree with what D-Will was saying about the Jazz being a place where he could shine. With the Jazz, when the PG makes the right play, it usually works. With BKN, the players aren't as mechanically sound as a Jazz team-- so, a lot of times D-Will is putting the ball in the right spot but his team is not on the same page.

Geez the NY media is just killing Deron! He should have realized how good he had it here. Things are about to get really bad for him.

http://www.nj.com/ledger-dalessandro/index.ssf/2012/12/dalessandro_deron_williams_holding_on_too_tight.html#incart_river_default

Romoholic wrote:

Geez the NY media is just killing Deron! He should have realized how good he had it here. Things are about to get really bad for him.

http://www.nj.com/ledger-dalessandro/index.ssf/2012/12/dalessandro_deron_williams_holding_on_too_tight.html#incart_river_default

Whew, that was as scathing a critique as I've ever seen, mostly because it was all true.

That was my thing in the year or so before Jerry Sloans retirement and the D-Will trade, I really felt that D-Will had started to go into full blown diva mode, and I didn't like it at all. A lot of people wrote it off as competive nature or whatever, but it was pretty clear that D-Will thought the name on the back of the Jersey was more important than the name on the front, and that he wanted to have things his way or no way. I think that was as much a factor in the Jazz trading him as his unwillingness to commit, he was holding his contract over the Jazz head the same way he held it over the Nets, basically saying "If you don't make some moves that I like, and prove that you will play by my rules, I'm going somewhere else" but unike the Nets the Jazz don't have bottomless pockets or patience for that kind of meddling.

The thing that blows me away is that he didn't learn his lesson when the Jazz traded him and made him suffer through two years in basketball purgatory.

I mean, even Lebron, after he basically did the same thing to Cleveland and then left for Miami, after he signed his deal he stopped with all of the public bitching and trying to play GM and (at least publicly) supported his coach and management and played basketball.

This is one of the things that also makes me leery of Kevin Love, another super competitive guy that continues to go public with his gripes with management and throw his teamates under the bus. I have very little respect or patience for players that think they can lead that way, I just don't think it works, and I don't think emotionally mature people act that way.

Here's a nice article in the Trib where Mo Williams defends D-Will and talks about the Jazz system under Jerry Sloan...

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/55507096-87/jazz-williams-system-offense.html.csp

This is my favorite quote....

Quote :

"I could tell the difference," the Jazz point guard said, sitting courtside before Tuesday’s 104-94 win in Brooklyn. "Trust me."

...

Mo Williams ... said when a player becomes accustomed to the Jazz’s "flex"-based offense, it can be difficult, particularly for a point guard, to adjust to a system dependent on isolation plays, like the one he encountered when he signed with the Milwaukee Bucks in 2004 after spending his rookie year with the Jazz.

"The biggest difference when you leave," he said, "is other players haven’t been at Utah, so they don’t know how that system really is. They don’t know, you can get frustrated at times in the sense that you wonder why guys don’t know how to play the ‘right way.’ "

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/55507096-87/jazz-williams-system-offense.html.csp

I think that is the same thing a lot of us feel when we watch the Jazz and don't see the kind of team oriented offensive system that we became accustomed to for all of those years, like the guys we are watching don't know how to play the game the RIGHT way.

TheMagnus wrote:

Here's a nice article in the Trib where Mo Williams defends D-Will and talks about the Jazz system under Jerry Sloan...

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/55507096-87/jazz-williams-system-offense.html.csp

This is my favorite quote....

Quote :

"I could tell the difference," the Jazz point guard said, sitting courtside before Tuesday’s 104-94 win in Brooklyn. "Trust me."

...

Mo Williams ... said when a player becomes accustomed to the Jazz’s "flex"-based offense, it can be difficult, particularly for a point guard, to adjust to a system dependent on isolation plays, like the one he encountered when he signed with the Milwaukee Bucks in 2004 after spending his rookie year with the Jazz.

"The biggest difference when you leave," he said, "is other players haven’t been at Utah, so they don’t know how that system really is. They don’t know, you can get frustrated at times in the sense that you wonder why guys don’t know how to play the ‘right way.’ "

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/55507096-87/jazz-williams-system-offense.html.csp

I think that is the same thing a lot of us feel when we watch the Jazz and don't see the kind of team oriented offensive system that we became accustomed to for all of those years, like the guys we are watching don't know how to play the game the RIGHT way.

Agree 100%. For over 20 years Sloan was able to win by getting his players to play in his system. Sloan was criticized a whole lot, because this was a predictable strategy. Sloan was also criticized a lot for not calling time-outs in end-of-game situations or when other teams went on a scoring run (even though the Jazz won more often than not due to this strategy). Sloan coached his team to know what to do in any given situation-- and we frequently won because the opposing team hadn't been as well-coached.

I think D-Will was completely spoiled by coming into the Jazz organization. (I also think Carlos Boozer was spoiled by becoming part of such a well-oiled machine.) After D-Will was traded, he saw the difference between a team and a bunch of talented players wearing the same colored uniforms. I have very little doubt "Stockton" and "Malone" would be almost meaningless names if Stockton and Malone had played anywhere other than Utah. D-Will (and, maybe even Boozer) missed out on an amazing possibility (probably due to ignorance and bad advice from their agents).

D-Will (and, maybe even Boozer) is a very talented player So, D-Will still has a chance to be a well-respected talent that has played in the NBA. As it stands, I don't think D-Will (or Boozer) will come anywhere close to the Legends Stockton and Malone have become.

The things about Sloan's system, that some of his players and most of his critics didn't understand were:
a) it worked. It always worked, even if teams knew it was coming. This isn't football, with blocking assignments, pass routes and reads that can lead to success based on the play call...it's basketball. If you execute, the ball has a good chance of going in the basket even if everybody in the building knows what you're doing.

and b) it works with good players, less good players, and/or not-very-good players. This was important for the small-market Jazz, who couldn't (and still can't) count on getting a team of superior players. I think Layden saw that when he stepped down for Sloan.

Now the critics weren't entirely wrong, because there ARE players who don't take to Sloan's system and he wasn't really very flexible about it. The end-of-game situations ("They should know what to do.") and opponent run situations ("They should be men. Play through it. Stop the run by playing defense and getting baskets.") were just a reflection of who Sloan was and who he wanted his team to be. Strategically optimal? Maybe not. But sports commentators are all idiots who love that "Get a TO, baby, get a TO!!!" because it's a tiny bit of basketball "strategy" that they can understand. Kind of like football commentators who drool over blitzes and more blitzes-it's a strategy they can see, understand and recognize when it works. (Note that they never, EVER, call coaches out when the blitz gets burned by a good QB. EVER. And this happens ALL THE F'ING TIME!!)

One thing D-Will IS right about is that he is a terrific "system" PG. If he was a little more humble and disciplined, he might've been almost as good at it as Stockton was. He's pretty good one-on-one style, but not for a whole game, game after game, for a whole season. The Jazz teams he was on were good, but not quite contenders...and I'd argue they were brilliantly put together teams, but each player needed to be 5-10% better to win a championship. And they just weren't. Nice try, O'Connor.

Has anyone noticed Joe Johnson's contract? In 2015-16, Johnson will be pulling down nearly 25 million dollars and DWill 21 million dollars. That's a huge obligation for a couple of players who Hollinger currently has ranked 163 and 77 respectively on PER and who quite possibly have already seen their best days as NBA players. I suspect some of Williams shooting woes, however, may be related to wrist injury rather than lack of work or lack of system. If he really is practicing less, it may be because taking a lot of shots aggravates his wrist. I recently posted an article in another thread where Deron said his wrist was troubling him again. I can't see Dwill willfilly accepting life as a 39% shooter. And maybe Joe Johnson just needs to get acclimated better. But if I was a Net fan, I would really be getting worried! Just my speculative opinions.

Crunchtime1 wrote:

Has anyone noticed Joe Johnson's contract? In 2015-16, Johnson will be pulling down nearly 25 million dollars and DWill 21 million dollars. That's a huge obligation for a couple of players who Hollinger currently has ranked 163 and 77 respectively on PER and who quite possibly have already seen their best days as NBA players. I suspect Williams shooting woes, however, are related to wrist injury rather than lack of work. If he really is practicing less, it may be because taking a lot of shots aggravates his wrist. I recently posted an article in another thread where Deron said his wrist was troubling him again. I can't see Dwill willfilly accepting life as a 39% shooter. And maybe Joe Johnson just needs to get acclimated better. But if I was a Net fan, I would really be getting worried! Just my speculative opinions.

Yep. I'm not saying Johnson will be a bust, but, I think this is a perfect example of a team making decisions only on numbers without really understanding team basketball. I think NJ/BKN looked at D-Will and Johnson as one of the best PGs playing with one of the best SGs-- and that would somehow equate into the best PG/SG combo. They may eventually figure things out on their own, but I don't think the NBA is going to give them enough time. This leaves BKN with a great PG who is capable of creating on his own, and a great SG who is also pretty good at creating things on his own. To me, it looks like BKN has some good players who happen to wear the same uniforms-- and unless those players are absolutely better than the five they face, they won't win.

I think that's where a lot of frustration comes in now. Before you had guys like Greg Foster and Ostertag that were more than servicable in the system. We have the most talented set of bigs the Jazz have ever had, but it doesn't run the same way. If sloan were still the coach this team would probable be 5-7 games better at this point in the season. I would like to see Horny get a shot at coaching the Jazz! He was a main cog in Jerry's system and would be able to implement it better than Corbin, who was always a role player.

Crunchtime1 wrote:

Has anyone noticed Joe Johnson's contract? In 2015-16, Johnson will be pulling down nearly 25 million dollars and DWill 21 million dollars. That's a huge obligation for a couple of players who Hollinger currently has ranked 163 and 77 respectively on PER and who quite possibly have already seen their best days as NBA players. I suspect some of Williams shooting woes, however, may be related to wrist injury rather than lack of work or lack of system. If he really is practicing less, it may be because taking a lot of shots aggravates his wrist. I recently posted an article in another thread where Deron said his wrist was troubling him again. I can't see Dwill willfilly accepting life as a 39% shooter. And maybe Joe Johnson just needs to get acclimated better. But if I was a Net fan, I would really be getting worried! Just my speculative opinions.

Yeah, but...

I think we may soon see the most irresponsible disregard of the salary cap, luxury tax, and financial responsibility in general ever in the history of professional sports. I think Big Russian adds ANOTHER max contract next year in an attempt to improve the team by brute financial force.

Which would be totally worth it if we got to hear Buss or Dolan complain about teams "trying to buy a championship".

Trollificus wrote:

Crunchtime1 wrote:

Has anyone noticed Joe Johnson's contract? In 2015-16, Johnson will be pulling down nearly 25 million dollars and DWill 21 million dollars. That's a huge obligation for a couple of players who Hollinger currently has ranked 163 and 77 respectively on PER and who quite possibly have already seen their best days as NBA players. I suspect some of Williams shooting woes, however, may be related to wrist injury rather than lack of work or lack of system. If he really is practicing less, it may be because taking a lot of shots aggravates his wrist. I recently posted an article in another thread where Deron said his wrist was troubling him again. I can't see Dwill willfilly accepting life as a 39% shooter. And maybe Joe Johnson just needs to get acclimated better. But if I was a Net fan, I would really be getting worried! Just my speculative opinions.

Yeah, but...

I think we may soon see the most irresponsible disregard of the salary cap, luxury tax, and financial responsibility in general ever in the history of professional sports. I think Big Russian adds ANOTHER max contract next year in an attempt to improve the team by brute financial force.

Which would be totally worth it if we got to hear Buss or Dolan complain about teams "trying to buy a championship".

Actually, no, dont agree at all. This year is the last year of financial swingers....it all changes next year.