The Jazz Best Five

It was recently asked, will Ty EVER start the Jazz' best five players this year? That brings up two quick questions: 1) Who are the Jazz' five best players?, and, 2) Should the Jazz START their five best players?

IMO, the Jazz best players are: Mo, Heyhay, Millsap, Big Al, and Kanter (with Favors not too far behind Kanter). And, they COULD start if we moved Mill to SF, Al, to PF, and started Kanter at Center. If we had greater depth at the Center position, I would actually love the idea of starting those five. But, we don't have better depth at Center, so that lineup is not a realistic starting lineup. My ideal starting Jazz lineup would be Mo, Heyhay, Favors, Millsap, and Big Al. The biggest drawback to this lineup is that we wouldn't have Heyhay coming off the bench to take over the 2nd unit scoring. So, my more pragmatic viable starting lineup would be: Mo, DC (or another guard other than Foye or Heyhay), Favors, Millsap, and Big Al. Kanter, Heyhay, and Foye would be pretty good anchors for a 2nd unit.

One thing I think is important, that we sometimes forget, is that most teams, and particularly the best teams, don't usually start their five best players. And, they shouldn't-- unless a team is willing to play those five for 40+ minutes every night. If the NBA teams played only one game a week, like in the NFL, teams WOULD always start their five best, and play them 40+ minutes a game (and, once a week, I would love to watch basketball). Ginobli is a perfect example of great non-starters. And, every year there's a winner for best 6th man, and they're ALWAYS one of the best five players on their team. Winning teams don't start their five best players for a reason.

You telling me Miami and OKC don't start their 5 best players at position? I agree that some teams are deep enough to stash viable starters as 6th and 7th man, but at the end of the day I think most teams do in fact start their best five
positional players. And because of that I say the starting line-up should look like this:
Mo
Burks
Hey
Sap
Al

Second best with Hey and Sap slightly out of position:

Mo
Hey
Sap
Kanter
Al

I can't recall ever seeing these line-ups playing together?

Great stuff, great stuff. The Jazz best starting 5....hmmmm. My opinion:


Mo: He's still the best PG we have IMO. I LOVE Burks, but we need a guy that can get 7-8 assists regularly. He also can spread the floor hitting the 3.
Hayward: Neck and neck now with Paul as best player on the team. He can do it all, and does it all well. And he keeps getting better. Good defender too. Oh and Calgary, STUD
DC3: Yes, I stick to it that he's the ultimate teammate and starter. Do it all, hustle, rebounding, defense. And can hit the jumper when he's open.
Millsap: No explanation needed.
UnderKanter: a shock maybe to some, I've loved him since day 1. But now he's shown the ability to score WELL, rebound WELL, hustle, not make silly fouls, and he's a good defender. Not capable, but really GOOD.

Teams would HATE facing that unit!! They'd get beat up, out hustled, outside shooting, inside dominating, out rebounded....man, it'd be glorious.
That leaves a second unit of Al and Foye working together, two guys just coming into score. Burks should be in there with starter minutes as should Fav. A second unit of Fav and Al, where Al would be unstoppable, and Fav cleaning up against the opposing second units would be nasty.

Since that is far fetched for this year, I would also be very happy with this:

Mo/Gordo/DC3/Paul/Al
or
Mo/Burks/DC3/Paul/Al (GH great in the 2nd unit)
or
Mo/Foye/DC3/Paul/Al

All those are more likely, the last actually did for a couple games. A bigger question and problem, is the substitutions after the starting 5. Thats where we're losing games.

Next year this will be a much more fun question

MTJazz wrote:

You telling me Miami and OKC don't start their 5 best players at position? I agree that some teams are deep enough to stash viable starters as 6th and 7th man, but at the end of the day I think most teams do in fact start their best five
positional players. And because of that I say the starting line-up should look like this:
Mo
Burks
Hey
Sap
Al

Second best with Hey and Sap slightly out of position:

Mo
Hey
Sap
Kanter
Al

I can't recall ever seeing these line-ups playing together?

Absolutely, OKC and Miami DO NOT start their 5 best players. I do, however like your alternate starting fives for the Jazz!

I feel like our best starting lineup is Al Favors Paul Flash Mo with Burks as the sixth man. This lineup will give Enes more time which i think he's ready. This team makes the playoffs.

Mutangclan wrote:

Great stuff, great stuff. The Jazz best starting 5....hmmmm. My opinion:


Mo: He's still the best PG we have IMO. I LOVE Burks, but we need a guy that can get 7-8 assists regularly. He also can spread the floor hitting the 3.
Hayward: Neck and neck now with Paul as best player on the team. He can do it all, and does it all well. And he keeps getting better. Good defender too. Oh and Calgary, STUD
DC3: Yes, I stick to it that he's the ultimate teammate and starter. Do it all, hustle, rebounding, defense. And can hit the jumper when he's open.
Millsap: No explanation needed.
UnderKanter: a shock maybe to some, I've loved him since day 1. But now he's shown the ability to score WELL, rebound WELL, hustle, not make silly fouls, and he's a good defender. Not capable, but really GOOD.

Teams would HATE facing that unit!! They'd get beat up, out hustled, outside shooting, inside dominating, out rebounded....man, it'd be glorious.
That leaves a second unit of Al and Foye working together, two guys just coming into score. Burks should be in there with starter minutes as should Fav. A second unit of Fav and Al, where Al would be unstoppable, and Fav cleaning up against the opposing second units would be nasty.

Since that is far fetched for this year, I would also be very happy with this:

Mo/Gordo/DC3/Paul/Al
or
Mo/Burks/DC3/Paul/Al (GH great in the 2nd unit)
or
Mo/Foye/DC3/Paul/Al

All those are more likely, the last actually did for a couple games. A bigger question and problem, is the substitutions after the starting 5. Thats where we're losing games.

Next year this will be a much more fun question

Mu, I too love DC3. But, there is no way I would leave Big Al out of our "best" current players. Big Al has tremendous defensive (and even several offensive) flaws. Then again, so did Adrian Dantley. We eventually traded Adrain Dantley, but, while he was on our team, he was definitely one of our best players (actually, our best player, and one-time league MVP). Of course, we didn't let Dantley go until we had Stockton and Malone.

Now, you're getting one of the Jazz (and all NBA teams') problems: the substitutions after the starting five. Back to my point that we shouldn't (and good teams don't) start their five best players.

Saint Louis wrote:

Mu, I too love DC3. But, there is no way I would leave Big Al out of our "best" current players. Big Al has tremendous defensive (and even several offensive) flaws. Then again, so did Adrian Dantley. We eventually traded Adrain Dantley, but, while he was on our team, he was definitely one of our best players (actually, our best player, and one-time league MVP). Of course, we didn't let Dantley go until we had Stockton and Malone.

Now, you're getting one of the Jazz (and all NBA teams') problems: the substitutions after the starting five. Back to my point that we shouldn't (and good teams don't) start their five best players.

Last year I wouldnt either. But with this team as it is now, all those guys play really well with and FOR each other. Al, next to Tim Duncan is tops in the league in low post scoring. But everything else about him makes everyone else suffer. Gordo/DC/Marv/Paul/Burks/Kanter/Fav/Mo even Foye all lose a ton of their punch playing with Al. Its either on the offensive or defensive end that they suffer. Foye though probably works best on the court with Al. Even then I bet the stats/%'s say otherwise.

My basic point is that in a team sport, if you have 5 guys that are working together, fluid and making each other better, thats 10x better than one guy who is unstoppable in the post.
So I like Al as a scoring force on the second unit. Even though I know it will never happen.

Best 5 right now is tough for me... but I think I'd go with this...

Burks, Hayward, Carroll, Millsap, Favors.

I don't have any doubt that Hayward, Carroll, and Millsap should be in the group, they are the best players at thier positions. I'm hugely conflicted over who should be at C, I could see a good case for any of the three, but I give Favors the nod for his interior D. I'm also a bit torn between Mo and Burks, Mo is better offensively, Burks defensively, I think Burks and Hayward play really well together as PG/SG, Mo is a better PG, but I'm giving the edge to Burks because he has been an impact player for the last month and Mo has really been struggling to get it going, especially defensively.

TheMagnus wrote:

Best 5 right now is tough for me... but I think I'd go with this...

Burks, Hayward, Carroll, Millsap, Favors.

I don't have any doubt that Hayward, Carroll, and Millsap should be in the group, they are the best players at thier positions. I'm hugely conflicted over who should be at C, I could see a good case for any of the three, but I give Favors the nod for his interior D. I'm also a bit torn between Mo and Burks, Mo is better offensively, Burks defensively, I think Burks and Hayward play really well together as PG/SG, Mo is a better PG, but I'm giving the edge to Burks because he has been an impact player for the last month and Mo has really been struggling to get it going, especially defensively.

Mags, who do you think are the Jazz' 5 best players REGARDLESS OF WHICH POSITION THEY PLAY? (i.e. You could go with Favors, Kanter, Big Al, Millsap and Hayward if you wanted to.) I like Burks and DC quite a bit, but, I wouldn't say that either of them are better than Big Al, or, even Mo Will. They may be some day, but not yet.

Saint Louis wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Best 5 right now is tough for me... but I think I'd go with this...

Burks, Hayward, Carroll, Millsap, Favors.

I don't have any doubt that Hayward, Carroll, and Millsap should be in the group, they are the best players at thier positions. I'm hugely conflicted over who should be at C, I could see a good case for any of the three, but I give Favors the nod for his interior D. I'm also a bit torn between Mo and Burks, Mo is better offensively, Burks defensively, I think Burks and Hayward play really well together as PG/SG, Mo is a better PG, but I'm giving the edge to Burks because he has been an impact player for the last month and Mo has really been struggling to get it going, especially defensively.

Mags, who do you think are the Jazz' 5 best players REGARDLESS OF WHICH POSITION THEY PLAY? (i.e. You could go with Favors, Kanter, Big Al, Millsap and Hayward if you wanted to.) I like Burks and DC quite a bit, but, I wouldn't say that either of them are better than Big Al, or, even Mo Will. They may be some day, but not yet.

Mo is playing much better right now, definitely the best PG on the roster, so I'd probably go with him over Burks. Ask me again tomorrow and I might give you a different answer.

As far as the best 5 players, that depends on how you want to quantify "best"...If I'm being true to the stat geek in me then it's probably Millsap, Hayward, Favors, Evans, and Jefferson, with Kanter and Carroll fighting hard to get in to that group. I'd say 5 of the Jazz best 7 players are PF/C's. I broke it down in quite a bit of detail why Jefferson fails to impact games positively, and this season has frankly been one of his worst in that regard, so I don't think he's one of the "best" players on this team most nights, and recently he's been regularly out played by both Kanter and Favors. Mo has been ok, but he's still an average PG at best, his defense has been very disappointing all season, and when his shot isn't falling he becomes a serious negative. When Favors isn't turning the ball over like he's taking a vow of poverty he's good offensively and he's always great defensively.

I think the Favors/Kanter/Jefferson situation is interesting, because they are so vastly different in abilities their approach to the game. I think they are all natural C's right now. Jefferson and Favors are polar opposites, Jefferson is an offensive machine, Favors is a Defensive beast, and Kanter is someplace in the middle, playing better Offense than Favors (and Jefferson some nights) and better D than Jefferson. To me it's really kind of a pick your poison situation, and I go with Favors because on the whole I think he is the "best" player right now, especially with other 4 guys I picked.

I've mentioned before that I'd really like to see a lineup with Millsap, Evans and Favors or Kanter, so my second choice for "best 5" starters would be Mo, Hayward, Millsap, Evans, and Kanter, just for fun to see how it went.

Saint Louis wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Best 5 right now is tough for me... but I think I'd go with this...

Burks, Hayward, Carroll, Millsap, Favors.

I don't have any doubt that Hayward, Carroll, and Millsap should be in the group, they are the best players at thier positions. I'm hugely conflicted over who should be at C, I could see a good case for any of the three, but I give Favors the nod for his interior D. I'm also a bit torn between Mo and Burks, Mo is better offensively, Burks defensively, I think Burks and Hayward play really well together as PG/SG, Mo is a better PG, but I'm giving the edge to Burks because he has been an impact player for the last month and Mo has really been struggling to get it going, especially defensively.

Mags, who do you think are the Jazz' 5 best players REGARDLESS OF WHICH POSITION THEY PLAY? (i.e. You could go with Favors, Kanter, Big Al, Millsap and Hayward if you wanted to.) I like Burks and DC quite a bit, but, I wouldn't say that either of them are better than Big Al, or, even Mo Will. They may be some day, but not yet.

Saint I could be wrong, but it seems you're getting at the best players and starting while kind of disagreeing with my choice and Mags.

My best 5 overall talent/players on the team: Gordo/Paul/Kanter/Fav/Burks/Mo/Al. Yea, there's 7 really good players on this team.
But then looking at who should start and play together, and off the bench:

My 5 starters on the team: Mo/Gordo/DC/Paul/Kanter

The best scorer on the team doesn't need to start. I see Al as Jamal Crawford, great scorers. Also, I think Kanter is every bit the defender Favors is, he just doesn't block shots like that. But he plays great defense with his body and movement.
Secondly, you know bball is a team sport. It takes 5 guys to play together, and play well. Rhythm, balance, spacing, vision, hustle and skills that compliment each others skills. Thats why I chose the 5 I did, and why I put Al on the bench. He's the teams best scorer, but he doesn't make anyone else better.

TheMagnus wrote:

Best 5 right now is tough for me... but I think I'd go with this...

Burks, Hayward, Carroll, Millsap, Favors.

Not getting your fandom of Favors over Kanter. Yes, he can swat shots but he negates all that with his foul, failure to show up nights and TO issues. Kanter is IMO a more well-rounded player. He would be great as a defensive beast and rebounder on a squad with shooters but that isn't now nor looks to be anytime in the near future a scoring team that resembles the Jazz. Fav = Perkins (but without the attitude. Some nights he looks totally uninterested). But we don't have KD, Westbrook et al to carry the O load.

Mutangclan wrote:

Saint Louis wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Best 5 right now is tough for me... but I think I'd go with this...

Burks, Hayward, Carroll, Millsap, Favors.

I don't have any doubt that Hayward, Carroll, and Millsap should be in the group, they are the best players at thier positions. I'm hugely conflicted over who should be at C, I could see a good case for any of the three, but I give Favors the nod for his interior D. I'm also a bit torn between Mo and Burks, Mo is better offensively, Burks defensively, I think Burks and Hayward play really well together as PG/SG, Mo is a better PG, but I'm giving the edge to Burks because he has been an impact player for the last month and Mo has really been struggling to get it going, especially defensively.

Mags, who do you think are the Jazz' 5 best players REGARDLESS OF WHICH POSITION THEY PLAY? (i.e. You could go with Favors, Kanter, Big Al, Millsap and Hayward if you wanted to.) I like Burks and DC quite a bit, but, I wouldn't say that either of them are better than Big Al, or, even Mo Will. They may be some day, but not yet.

Saint I could be wrong, but it seems you're getting at the best players and starting while kind of disagreeing with my choice and Mags.

My best 5 overall talent/players on the team: Gordo/Paul/Kanter/Fav/Burks/Mo/Al. Yea, there's 7 really good players on this team.
But then looking at who should start and play together, and off the bench:

My 5 starters on the team: Mo/Gordo/DC/Paul/Kanter

The best scorer on the team doesn't need to start. I see Al as Jamal Crawford, great scorers. Also, I think Kanter is every bit the defender Favors is, he just doesn't block shots like that. But he plays great defense with his body and movement.
Secondly, you know bball is a team sport. It takes 5 guys to play together, and play well. Rhythm, balance, spacing, vision, hustle and skills that compliment each others skills. Thats why I chose the 5 I did, and why I put Al on the bench. He's the teams best scorer, but he doesn't make anyone else better.

Great posts all around, Mu and Mag. I started this thread to point out the difference between a team's "Best Players" and who a team should start. We've all done a good job of pointing out how subjective the term "Best Player" is (which was one of my first two points). And, I think, we've all come to the conclusion that there are certain combinations of players that work better together for starters and non-starters-- and, who we think should start is NOT the same thing as who we think are our best players (which was my 2nd point).

As I've already said, most teams (and, particularly good teams) do not usually start their "5 best players." I haven't really given examples of this, but, I'm pretty sure anyone would be able to look at all the teams in playoff contention and demonstrate that they do not start their 5 "best players." Instead, most teams (and particularly the best teams) look at their projected line-ups for an entire game, and try to maintain a balance.

The only thing I disagree with (and, it's probably because Mu and Mag are looking at it differently than I am) is that if you look at an objective list of "Who are the Jazz' 'best five players'?" I don't think there would be a single respected professional NBA analyst that would leave Al Jefferson off of that list. AND, I think most of the experts would put Big Al at either #1 or #2.

MTJazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Best 5 right now is tough for me... but I think I'd go with this...

Burks, Hayward, Carroll, Millsap, Favors.

Not getting your fandom of Favors over Kanter. Yes, he can swat shots but he negates all that with his foul, failure to show up nights and TO issues. Kanter is IMO a more well-rounded player. He would be great as a defensive beast and rebounder on a squad with shooters but that isn't now nor looks to be anytime in the near future a scoring team that resembles the Jazz. Fav = Perkins (but without the attitude. Some nights he looks totally uninterested). But we don't have KD, Westbrook et al to carry the O load.

I'm leaning with MTJazz on this one. IMO, Favors came to the Jazz as a "better player" than Kanter, but Kanter has lifted his game slightly above Favors. Favors probably has more potential than Kanter, but, except for the shoulder injury I'd say Kanter is slightly "better."

Saint Louis wrote:

The only thing I disagree with (and, it's probably because Mu and Mag are looking at it differently than I am) is that if you look at an objective list of "Who are the Jazz' 'best five players'?" I don't think there would be a single respected professional NBA analyst that would leave Al Jefferson off of that list. AND, I think most of the experts would put Big Al at either #1 or #2.

I'd disagree with your last statement. All the analysts, pundits, scouts etc all talk about all of the negatives Al brings on the court. It's not anything close to a secret.

Problem is the premium placed on low post scoring. It's important, but not too cool when the other team is scoring all these other points on that low post scorer.
I think I'd go back to my comparison of Al to Jamal Crawford. I think Al gets more credence to being a the "best" player because he scores down low.
Personally, I dont think Jamal is one of the 5 best Clippers either, but think Al=Jamal

Saint Louis wrote:

As I've already said, most teams (and, particularly good teams) do not usually start their "5 best players." I haven't really given examples of this, but, I'm pretty sure anyone would be able to look at all the teams in playoff contention and demonstrate that they do not start their 5 "best players." Instead, most teams (and particularly the best teams) look at their projected line-ups for an entire game, and try to maintain a balance.

Thanks for the "agree" on your previous post but gonna call you out on "haven't given you examples". I took the time to look, and while just IMO, it is rare a team that can stash one of their top 5 players for juice off the bench. Really rare, like maybe 2-4 teams out of 16 playoff bound teams:

WEST
SA - Danny Green over Manu; clearly Manu better
OKC- Thabo over Martin; toss up
Den- Kosta over Magee; toss up
Clips - Chauncy over Jamal; clearly Jamal is better
Grizz - start their best 5
Rox - start their best 5
GS - start their best 5
Lakers - Metta over Antwan; Metta by a hair

EAST
Miami- start their best 5
Indiana - ditto
NY - Kidd over JR - JR a better gunner
Nets - start best 5
Bulls - start best 5
Hawks- ditto
Boston - ditto
Bucks - ditto

Please be specific if you disagree, which is fair enough, but I think you narrative is flawed.

MTJazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Best 5 right now is tough for me... but I think I'd go with this...

Burks, Hayward, Carroll, Millsap, Favors.

Not getting your fandom of Favors over Kanter. Yes, he can swat shots but he negates all that with his foul, failure to show up nights and TO issues. Kanter is IMO a more well-rounded player. He would be great as a defensive beast and rebounder on a squad with shooters but that isn't now nor looks to be anytime in the near future a scoring team that resembles the Jazz. Fav = Perkins (but without the attitude. Some nights he looks totally uninterested). But we don't have KD, Westbrook et al to carry the O load.

You guys are crazy if you think Kanter has the defensive impact that Favors does, completely nuts. Not only does Favors play good position D just like Kanter, but he gets blocks, steals, AND REBOUNDS at a higher rate than Kanter, people change the way they play when he comes in the game. Kanter is a more efficient offensive player, but he's got many issues of his own that need to be worked out. Sorry guys, if I've got a choice between an elite interior defender with good enough offensive skills and a great post player whose strong defensively but not great, I'm taking the elite defender every time. Carlos Boozer and Al Jefferson taught me that.

TheMagnus wrote:

Sorry guys, if I've got a choice between an elite interior defender with good enough offensive skills and a great post player whose strong defensively but not great, I'm taking the elite defender every time. Carlos Boozer and Al Jefferson taught me that.

Yeah, Booz and Al have had really terrible careers, those damn GM's just don't get it - scoring in the post and rbs really don't ad up. Hmmm, let me think of all the big money career bigs that made a living on defense and rbs. Eaton. Rodman. Perkins. I run out of names, though I'm sure there are many more but I am not going to do the research. Favors is missing two ingredients: 1) gonna kick your ass attitude every night and 2) offensive skills. And, I might add, until you bust some advanced stats on me I'm just not buying that Kanter is weak, (Al and Boozer weak) on D. It is disingenuous to put Kanter in that group. Favors is great, he just isn't at this point looking like he is going to be a great starter. Feel free to call me out when he becomes an all star.

MTJazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Sorry guys, if I've got a choice between an elite interior defender with good enough offensive skills and a great post player whose strong defensively but not great, I'm taking the elite defender every time. Carlos Boozer and Al Jefferson taught me that.

Yeah, Booz and Al have had really terrible careers, those damn GM's just don't get it - scoring in the post and rbs really don't ad up. Hmmm, let me think of all the big money career bigs that made a living on defense and rbs. Eaton. Rodman. Perkins. I run out of names, though I'm sure there are many more but I am not going to do the research. Favors is missing two ingredients: 1) gonna kick your ass attitude every night and 2) offensive skills. And, I might add, until you bust some advanced stats on me I'm just not buying that Kanter is weak, (Al and Boozer weak) on D. It is disingenuous to put Kanter in that group. Favors is great, he just isn't at this point looking like he is going to be a great starter. Feel free to call me out when he becomes an all star.

What?

I never said Kanter was weak on D, in fact I said he was strong. And I'm not sure what point you thought you were trying to make by trotting out examples of players who had ZERO offensive game, most of whom helped their teams to be more successful than any offense oriented post players ever did, and then follow it up by throwing out one ingredient that none of them ever had, and another that is nonsense, and then saying that Favors needs them?!?

GM's do get it, that is why the smart ones, the ones that are building CONTENDERS get guys like Perkins, and Udonis Haslem, and Tyson Chandler, and Joakim Noah, and Dwight Howard, Serge Ibaka, and ... (do I really need to go on?) to anchor their teams and protect the paint. Kanter will never be that kind of defender. He's not that kind of athlete, and he's not that kind of player. Favors ALREADY IS THAT KIND OF DEFENDER. Sure the offence needs some polish,and the solution to that may be to just let Kanter or Hayward or Millsap take the shots and leave Favors to do what he does best, but the bottom line is that Favors has something that contending teams need, that this team needs, and I think that fact, along with his overall play and impact on the game, makes him BETTER than Kanter right now.

TheMagnus wrote:

GM's do get it, that is why the smart ones, the ones that are building CONTENDERS get guys like Perkins, and Udonis Haslem, and Tyson Chandler, and Joakim Noah, and Dwight Howard, Serge Ibaka, and ... (do I really need to go on?) to anchor their teams and protect the paint. Kanter will never be that kind of defender.

Really? What is your evidence? I'm using my eyes. You are all in on Favors and my eye says, "Sorry about the high pick, you are going to be a really good journeyman". Kanter has O that kills already, he will learn D. Favors is a great teammate in a role, and he isn't going to learn O.

Wow, the last posts by MTJazz and Mag both illustrate my point about "who are the best five." I started another thread on the other category of teams other than the Jazz which addresses some of MTJazz' points he made here about teams other than the Jazz. It's a good discussion, but, I don't want to take up space on the Jazz category to talk about all the teams other than the Jazz.

MTJazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

GM's do get it, that is why the smart ones, the ones that are building CONTENDERS get guys like Perkins, and Udonis Haslem, and Tyson Chandler, and Joakim Noah, and Dwight Howard, Serge Ibaka, and ... (do I really need to go on?) to anchor their teams and protect the paint. Kanter will never be that kind of defender.

Really? What is your evidence? I'm using my eyes. You are all in on Favors and my eye says, "Sorry about the high pick, you are going to be a really good journeyman". Kanter has O that kills already, he will learn D. Favors is a great teammate in a role, and he isn't going to learn O.

Well your eyes are what they are, what I can tell you is that your perception of development is completely backwards from the way it really is, but if you want to believe it I can't stop you.

You can teach a guy to play offense. You can teach him how to pass. You can teach him how to post up. You can teach a guy how to position himself on defense. You can teach a guy how to maximize his strength on both ends to get rebounds.

You can't teach him a 35 inch vertical. You can't teach him how to block 3 shots a game. You can't teach him the athleticism it takes to come form the back side and knock a shot that is already 12 feet in the air into the stands. And you can't teach him how to dominate his opponents with sheer athleticism if he doesn't have it.

I believe Kanter will be a great player, but he's not yet. Neither is Favors. But Kanter will never have what Favors has, and he will never be able to do the things athletically and defensively that Favors is doing right now, no matter what your eyes are telling you.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=kanteen01&y1=2013&p2=favorde01&y2=2013

As far as I can see there, Favors has been better than Kanter in pretty much every way except shooting the basketball.

Hard for me to say who is or who will be better between Favors and Kanter. They are too different of players to say who is better. Two totally different skill sets. And by damn, they compliment each other so well. The future is bright in jazz land, says I.

The Voice of Reason wrote:

Hard for me to say who is or who will be better between Favors and Kanter. They are too different of players to say who is better. Two totally different skill sets. And by damn, they compliment each other so well. The future is bright in jazz land, says I.

This is exactly what I was going to say.

The Jazz are blessed to have two young guys that can get it done and are both improving. The fact that they are different and compliment each others skill sets makes it completely unnecessary (and difficult) to compare them.

The Voice of Reason wrote:

Hard for me to say who is or who will be better between Favors and Kanter. They are too different of players to say who is better. Two totally different skill sets. And by damn, they compliment each other so well. The future is bright in jazz land, says I.

Exactly. The argument over who is better is pretty much entirely subjective, I certainly don't fault MT for going with Kanter, I just find it bazar when people think that the one that isn't "better" is expendable.