Nice read by Locke.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=21435325&nid=304&title=jazz-off-season-mission-accomplished&s_cid=featured-5

I think it's interesting that Mo, Marvin and Randy hit more 3s by themselves than the entire Jazz team last year.

I'm so excited for this season to get underway!

Romoholic wrote:

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=21435325&nid=304&title=jazz-off-season-mission-accomplished&s_cid=featured-5

I think it's interesting that Mo, Marvin and Randy hit more 3s by themselves than the entire Jazz team last year.

I'm so excited for this season to get underway!

Man, I was wondering that, had no idea it was that huge; those 3 hit MORE than the entire Jazz team????! That is huge for this team! I had forgotten I was always looking at Foye last year for my fantasy team because he was hitting so many 3's. Granted thats all he was really doing, but thankfully this isn't fantasy it's real ball. Welcome Randy.

Randy is a good player though, as is Marvin. Its going to be interesting, because I really think Burks is ready for starter minutes. I think it'll work out just fine, but unfortunately the one guy who is going to suffer the most will be Jeremy Evans. He's not going to get any minutes.
MAN I'm ready!
** Sidenote, Dallas in town on Halloween to open the season, PERFECT!!! Derrick will get his payback almost immediately.......watch your head Drrrrrrrk, DFav bringing thunder.

Mutangclan wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=21435325&nid=304&title=jazz-off-season-mission-accomplished&s_cid=featured-5

I think it's interesting that Mo, Marvin and Randy hit more 3s by themselves than the entire Jazz team last year.

I'm so excited for this season to get underway!

Man, I was wondering that, had no idea it was that huge; those 3 hit MORE than the entire Jazz team????! That is huge for this team! I had forgotten I was always looking at Foye last year for my fantasy team because he was hitting so many 3's. Granted thats all he was really doing, but thankfully this isn't fantasy it's real ball. Welcome Randy.

Randy is a good player though, as is Marvin. Its going to be interesting, because I really think Burks is ready for starter minutes. I think it'll work out just fine, but unfortunately the one guy who is going to suffer the most will be Jeremy Evans. He's not going to get any minutes.
MAN I'm ready!
** Sidenote, Dallas in town on Halloween to open the season, PERFECT!!! Derrick will get his payback almost immediately.......watch your head Drrrrrrrk, DFav bringing thunder.

I think Evans will get some minutes. Mainly because you are going to have injuries. If everyone played all 82 games Evans would for sure be the odd man out, but something is going to come up that we can't foresee right now.

Dallas is a good opening game for them. Favors needs to come in and dominate Dirk right off the bat!

Nice read! Really puts things in perspective on how bad the outside shooting was for the jazz last year. I mean, Millsap was probably one of our better 3 point shooters. Yikes!

One thing I didn't really agree with on locke was he said 2 of the 5 starters will be different. Is he assuming either Marvin or Foye will be starting, cause that would mean Burks won't be. I was under the impression that KOC said Burks will be the starting 2 guard with Hayward at the 3. I mean its no big deal, I just really want to see what burks can do with starter minutes. Have the sharp shooters come off the bench.

Subatomic wrote:

Nice read! Really puts things in perspective on how bad the outside shooting was for the jazz last year. I mean, Millsap was probably one of our better 3 point shooters. Yikes!

One thing I didn't really agree with on locke was he said 2 of the 5 starters will be different. Is he assuming either Marvin or Foye will be starting, cause that would mean Burks won't be. I was under the impression that KOC said Burks will be the starting 2 guard with Hayward at the 3. I mean its no big deal, I just really want to see what burks can do with starter minutes. Have the sharp shooters come off the bench.

Well actually at least 2 of the 5 starters are going to be different. Mo is starting and Favors is starting as well. If the Jazz decide to start Foye at the 2 we will have 3 new starters.

Either way our bench is gonna be sick this year!

Oh ya thats right. Forgot got that Favors will be the starting 4 with Millsap coming off the bench. Good stuff. Man I am so excited for the up coming season. The Jazz have a strong starting unit with a strong bench. All we really need now is to just gain more experience. I think this is the year will make a jump to the 5th or 4th seed and then next year we are true contenders!

Subatomic wrote:

Oh ya thats right. Forgot got that Favors will be the starting 4 with Millsap coming off the bench. Good stuff. Man I am so excited for the up coming season. The Jazz have a strong starting unit with a strong bench. All we really need now is to just gain more experience. I think this is the year will make a jump to the 5th or 4th seed and then next year we are true contenders!

Ye this team is growing together. Kinda reminds me of OKC.

You need to come over and hang before we move back to Dallas.

For sure buddy, just text me. I could probably do something tonight or next weekend. Whenever you got time man.

I would not bet the farm that Favors starts over Millsap. At least not to start the year.

The Voice of Reason wrote:

I would not bet the farm that Favors starts over Millsap. At least not to start the year.

If not then Corbin is an idiot!

I think it will be real interesting to see what Corbin does. he has a lot of options. He could start Jefferson, Favors and Millsap. Or he could bring one of either favors or Millsap off the bench. I know Favors is improving, and we all see tons of potential, but I am still not sure he has wrestled the starting position away from Millsap yet. Millsap has been, in my opinion, the jazz best and most clutch player the last two years. Favors has shown glimpses of promise, but I just don't know if he has shown enough consistently to be handed the starting position. However I think he is going to start to get irritated if he doesn't start, so I think there will definitely be a problem there.
There is just a lot of talent on this jazz team, which is a good problem to have. I'm just glad I'm not the one that has to determine who gets the minutes and when.

The Voice of Reason wrote:

I think it will be real interesting to see what Corbin does. he has a lot of options. He could start Jefferson, Favors and Millsap. Or he could bring one of either favors or Millsap off the bench. I know Favors is improving, and we all see tons of potential, but I am still not sure he has wrestled the starting position away from Millsap yet. Millsap has been, in my opinion, the jazz best and most clutch player the last two years. Favors has shown glimpses of promise, but I just don't know if he has shown enough consistently to be handed the starting position. However I think he is going to start to get irritated if he doesn't start, so I think there will definitely be a problem there.
There is just a lot of talent on this jazz team, which is a good problem to have. I'm just glad I'm not the one that has to determine who gets the minutes and when.

Yeah I still think Milsap at this point is better than Favors, but the torch has to be passed now. Milsap will destroy the opposing teams 2nd string. It's just time for Favors to be our center piece.

Corbin does have some tough decisions to make, but I'm sure he would much rather be faced with this task than not having enough talent. Our bench is a borderline starting unit in their own right.

Romoholic wrote:

The Voice of Reason wrote:

I think it will be real interesting to see what Corbin does. he has a lot of options. He could start Jefferson, Favors and Millsap. Or he could bring one of either favors or Millsap off the bench. I know Favors is improving, and we all see tons of potential, but I am still not sure he has wrestled the starting position away from Millsap yet. Millsap has been, in my opinion, the jazz best and most clutch player the last two years. Favors has shown glimpses of promise, but I just don't know if he has shown enough consistently to be handed the starting position. However I think he is going to start to get irritated if he doesn't start, so I think there will definitely be a problem there.
There is just a lot of talent on this jazz team, which is a good problem to have. I'm just glad I'm not the one that has to determine who gets the minutes and when.

Yeah I still think Milsap at this point is better than Favors, but the torch has to be passed now. Milsap will destroy the opposing teams 2nd string. It's just time for Favors to be our center piece.

Corbin does have some tough decisions to make, but I'm sure he would much rather be faced with this task than not having enough talent. Our bench is a borderline starting unit in their own right.

I agree.
A second unit of Tinsley, Foye, Marvin, Millsap and Kanter would be dangerous. Could beat a lot of starting lineups, I think.

During training camp, I want to hear Corbin come out and talk about starting and how much it DOESN'T matter. Favors will start to get irritated if he doesn't start over Paul? Well what has DFav proven? Nothing yet, Paul has.......Paul is saying he deserves to start? Well, maybe, but I think the Jazz and Jazz fans "deserve" a winner, how about that? So I dont care who starts, and DFav shouldn't care, and neither should Paul, Burks, Marv or Randy, or anyone else.

Only thing that should be cared about, is if enough playtime is given to Derrick, because he HAS earned that. Same with Burks and some others. I think Mo/Gordo/Marv/Paul/Al/Fav/Burks all need starter type minutes for us to be the best team we can. Thats tough to do, but the talent is there. I think Randy is not far behind, and Kanter needs more minutes than last year. Tough job for Ty and his staff, but thats the very nice problem we have.

I really want to hear him lay down the law, and say he doesn't care who starts, he shouldn't matter on this team when there are so many deserving players and he just wants 110% from every one.

Mutangclan wrote:

During training camp, I want to hear Corbin come out and talk about starting and how much it DOESN'T matter. Favors will start to get irritated if he doesn't start over Paul? Well what has DFav proven? Nothing yet, Paul has.......Paul is saying he deserves to start? Well, maybe, but I think the Jazz and Jazz fans "deserve" a winner, how about that? So I dont care who starts, and DFav shouldn't care, and neither should Paul, Burks, Marv or Randy, or anyone else.

Only thing that should be cared about, is if enough playtime is given to Derrick, because he HAS earned that. Same with Burks and some others. I think Mo/Gordo/Marv/Paul/Al/Fav/Burks all need starter type minutes for us to be the best team we can. Thats tough to do, but the talent is there. I think Randy is not far behind, and Kanter needs more minutes than last year. Tough job for Ty and his staff, but thats the very nice problem we have.

I really want to hear him lay down the law, and say he doesn't care who starts, he shouldn't matter on this team when there are so many deserving players and he just wants 110% from every one.

You're right it doesn't really matter who starts. Unfortunately for NBA players it does matter. Starters make a lot more money and are more respected. So who do you piss of by not starting them, our future all star or a guy that has been one of our best players for the past few seasons? Not an easy decision.

I say start Favors it is beyond important that we are able to sign Favors when his contract is up. Paul is a great player, but he isn't the Jazz future.

I get what you are saying though. As long as they are both getting starter minutes and playing well, its a win for everyone.

Romoholic wrote:

You're right it doesn't really matter who starts. Unfortunately for NBA players it does matter. Starters make a lot more money and are more respected. So who do you piss of by not starting them, our future all star or a guy that has been one of our best players for the past few seasons? Not an easy decision.

I say start Favors it is beyond important that we are able to sign Favors when his contract is up. Paul is a great player, but he isn't the Jazz future.

You never know man, maybe Al is moved and our starting bigs for the future are Paul and Fav.......
I realize it does to most, but this is one of the few teams that has 7 or 8 guys who could legitimately start and "deserve" to. This isnt the Bulls with 5 definite starters, and then the definite bench. Ty needs to start either now, or on the first day of training camp, letting guys know that it's going to be this type of team, where you may not start, but just because you start doesn't mean you'll finish. Let guys know they're going to play, and need to play both ends of the court to stay on the court.
Its been done in the past, and can be done again. Their own play will determine who plays.......for the record, I think our best starting 5 that lends to a phenomenal bench is Mo/GH/Marv/Fav/Al. I also think Paul should play more than Marv, and Burks should play just as much as Marv.

Mutangclan wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

You're right it doesn't really matter who starts. Unfortunately for NBA players it does matter. Starters make a lot more money and are more respected. So who do you piss of by not starting them, our future all star or a guy that has been one of our best players for the past few seasons? Not an easy decision.

I say start Favors it is beyond important that we are able to sign Favors when his contract is up. Paul is a great player, but he isn't the Jazz future.

You never know man, maybe Al is moved and our starting bigs for the future are Paul and Fav.......
I realize it does to most, but this is one of the few teams that has 7 or 8 guys who could legitimately start and "deserve" to. This isnt the Bulls with 5 definite starters, and then the definite bench. Ty needs to start either now, or on the first day of training camp, letting guys know that it's going to be this type of team, where you may not start, but just because you start doesn't mean you'll finish. Let guys know they're going to play, and need to play both ends of the court to stay on the court.
Its been done in the past, and can be done again. Their own play will determine who plays.......for the record, I think our best starting 5 that lends to a phenomenal bench is Mo/GH/Marv/Fav/Al. I also think Paul should play more than Marv, and Burks should play just as much as Marv.

I don't really care who start as long as Corbin's rotations are good. Either way we are gonna have probably the best bench in the league. Corbin can't be like Jerry was and have a set rotation, he needs to have the hot hand on the court at all time. If Pauls having a bad game then Favors plays the majority of the minutes. We now have the depth at every position to be able to play the hot guy and not have to worry about the drop in play with the reserves.

Another point O'Connor wanted to emphasize about the organization's decision-making process when it comes to starters and minutes: "We don't play contracts. We play players."

Good, great, wonderful. Players need to understand that too, or dont need to be here.....

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765593001/Utah-Jazz-Inquiring-minds-want-to-know-2-whos-going-to-start-for-Jazz.html

Good article. Interesting too, they have a poll to vote for who you think should start. With about 400 votes for each position, looks like my preference for starters is also what a massive majority agree with: Mo/Gordo/Marv/Fav/Al.
Whats even more exciting for me about that, is the awesome bench unit that can come in, Tinsley/Watson, Burks, Millsap, Foye, Kanter, DC.......any combination of that is good enough to start too. And actually, looking at that, maybe Rawns is right, and Foye plays some 1, with he and Burks both playing together at the 1. High scoring/in your face bench unit, kind of like the old Mob or whatever they were in Sac with Jon Barry. Wouldn't be able to lead as well as Earl or Tinsley but Foye-Burks-DC-Paul-Kanter is pretty sick, hmmm.....Versatility and bench play, what a bonus!

Still haven't heard a good reason to start favors, just a lot of nonsense about making him happy.

the weakness of that argument tells me two things, he hasn't earned the spot, and jazz fans STILL criminally undervalue Millsap. He's the guy we should be worried about losing.

TheMagnus wrote:

Still haven't heard a good reason to start favors, just a lot of nonsense about making him happy.

the weakness of that argument tells me two things, he hasn't earned the spot, and jazz fans STILL criminally undervalue Millsap. He's the guy we should be worried about losing.

A team needs its best players on the floor when a game starts and Favors is the Jazz best Defensive player in the paint and that is why he needs to start IMO, he also needs to be in at the end of game's for the same reason. If either Milsap or Jefferson is not OK coming off of the bench then the Jazz should trade them because one of them is going to have to come off of it if Favors is the starter like he should be. I myself think Milsap should be the starter with Favors because he is the better defender but can see why he would be good coming off the bench. Jefferson is the better scorer and would do well coming off the bench maybe a little better than Milsap because that's what you want out of a guy coming off of the bench he could very well become the 6th man of the year doing it.

Romoholic wrote:

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=21435325&nid=304&title=jazz-off-season-mission-accomplished&s_cid=featured-5

I think it's interesting that Mo, Marvin and Randy hit more 3s by themselves than the entire Jazz team last year.

I'm so excited for this season to get underway!

In 2011-2012 the Jazz avg.d 4.1 3PM and 12.8 3PA
In 2009-2010 the Jazz avg.d 5.4 3PM and 14.7 3PA that was with Okur, Korver, D Will etc., 2 more attempted, 1 more made. I don't think the Jazz will be different this year even if they had a young Korver, Okur and D Will instead of these guys.

rorybreaker wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=21435325&nid=304&title=jazz-off-season-mission-accomplished&s_cid=featured-5

I think it's interesting that Mo, Marvin and Randy hit more 3s by themselves than the entire Jazz team last year.

I'm so excited for this season to get underway!

In 2011-2012 the Jazz avg.d 4.1 3PM and 12.8 3PA
In 2009-2010 the Jazz avg.d 5.4 3PM and 14.7 3PA that was with Okur, Korver, D Will etc., 2 more attempted, 1 more made. I don't think the Jazz will be different this year even if they had a young Korver, Okur and D Will instead of these guys.

Thats completely ignoring how strong are bigs are now verses then. Thats the key to this team being successful. Strong bigs down low create open shots outside and vice versa good 3pt shooters create more spacing for bigs to operate down low.

TheMagnus wrote:

Still haven't heard a good reason to start favors, just a lot of nonsense about making him happy.

the weakness of that argument tells me two things, he hasn't earned the spot, and jazz fans STILL criminally undervalue Millsap. He's the guy we should be worried about losing.

Earned a spot...... What does that even mean? Plays the hardest? Gordo? Scores the most? Thats Al. Toughest? That may even be Kanter. Longevity in the league? If thats the case then Earl should start. Its not like Favors hasn't done everything the Jazz have asked him too, he has. He's been great, and he plays balls-out. Same with Paul. So whats "earning a spot" mean??? (and you know I dont mean that in a disrespectful way mag) I think thats the thing that is nonsense. Start the best balanced 5 out there, that also gives us a balanced and strong bench. I have posted and acknowledged I dont think anyone should be starting just to make them happy. Who gives a shhhh about that. But I do think that a starting 5 of Mo/GH/Marv/Fav/Al is the best 5 to start out. I think that gives us a REDIC strong, vet smart beast balanced bench that way. Roye/Burks/Paul/UnderK can bring outside shooting, slashing, mid-range, rebounding, post play too.

I have already mentioned I think Paul should play more minutes than Marv, as should Burks. I think that gives us 5 players out there that can attack from everywhere, gives us rebounding, shot blocking, passing and 3pt shooting. Spaces the floor for our bigs, and with that 5, what is the downside? Any? (Sidenote, there is a small situation there that I DO think should be looked at as the great "starting" position: Marv. He could benefit most I think from Utah saying we want you to start us off, on his fresh start team.) Notably, we are not undersized at any position, we have 5 guys that can defend their guy. Also, if we get pick and rolled with bigs, Derrick can guard the PF or Center and at least not be outsized. Bynum/Gasol, Ibaka/Perkins, Dirk/Kaman, Love/Pekovic and on and on: starting Paul and Al, Paul would be undersized against all of them, and we've seen the Jazz suffer from that. Staring Fav and Al, we are not undersized, and can guard those all those twin towers more efficiently.

Paul has consistently shown over there years he can dominate with the second unit. Again, James Harden said he doesn't mind coming off the bench as long as they win, and that guy is an Olympian. Coming off the bench he can also come in for either Al or Fav, or even come in as the SF. His versatility is the best on the team and an asset; why not use it? Paul plays 32mins a night, then whats the problem??

Lastly, Paul should care about winning games, not starting.

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Still haven't heard a good reason to start favors, just a lot of nonsense about making him happy.

the weakness of that argument tells me two things, he hasn't earned the spot, and jazz fans STILL criminally undervalue Millsap. He's the guy we should be worried about losing.

Earned a spot...... What does that even mean? Plays the hardest? Gordo? Scores the most? Thats Al. Toughest? That may even be Kanter. Longevity in the league? If thats the case then Earl should start. Its not like Favors hasn't done everything the Jazz have asked him too, he has. He's been great, and he plays balls-out. Same with Paul. So whats "earning a spot" mean??? (and you know I dont mean that in a disrespectful way mag) I think thats the thing that is nonsense. Start the best balanced 5 out there, that also gives us a balanced and strong bench. I have posted and acknowledged I dont think anyone should be starting just to make them happy. Who gives a shhhh about that. But I do think that a starting 5 of Mo/GH/Marv/Fav/Al is the best 5 to start out. I think that gives us a REDIC strong, vet smart beast balanced bench that way. Roye/Burks/Paul/UnderK can bring outside shooting, slashing, mid-range, rebounding, post play too.

I have already mentioned I think Paul should play more minutes than Marv, as should Burks. I think that gives us 5 players out there that can attack from everywhere, gives us rebounding, shot blocking, passing and 3pt shooting. Spaces the floor for our bigs, and with that 5, what is the downside? Any? (Sidenote, there is a small situation there that I DO think should be looked at as the great "starting" position: Marv. He could benefit most I think from Utah saying we want you to start us off, on his fresh start team.) Notably, we are not undersized at any position, we have 5 guys that can defend their guy. Also, if we get pick and rolled with bigs, Derrick can guard the PF or Center and at least not be outsized. Bynum/Gasol, Ibaka/Perkins, Dirk/Kaman, Love/Pekovic and on and on: starting Paul and Al, Paul would be undersized against all of them, and we've seen the Jazz suffer from that. Staring Fav and Al, we are not undersized, and can guard those all those twin towers more efficiently.

Paul has consistently shown over there years he can dominate with the second unit. Again, James Harden said he doesn't mind coming off the bench as long as they win, and that guy is an Olympian. Coming off the bench he can also come in for either Al or Fav, or even come in as the SF. His versatility is the best on the team and an asset; why not use it? Paul plays 32mins a night, then whats the problem??

Lastly, Paul should care about winning games, not starting.

C'mon man, you know what it means. Favors hasn't earned crap over Millsap, not offensively, not defensively, not anything, whether you're talking about starting or minutes, and Favors doesn't balance the starting lineup out any betther than Millsap.

And your aguments with Harden, guarding the pick-and-roll, and winning over starting are still bogus as argued in another post, they all apply better to Favors than they do to Millsap, and that is exactly my point.

Favors belongs to the Jazz for at least two years and most likely 5. Millsap is a free agent after this year, he is and has been the best player on the team for the last 2 years, he has been nothing but a warrior and a great team guy, he WANTS to play for the Jazz, and here Jazz fans are acting like they are over him and that if he isn't happy with whatever role then he should just leave now. That's stupid on so many levels that it boggles my mind, and here I am the only one trying to explain it.

Sorry, I'm just kind of ranting here Mu, nothing personal, but that shit really pisses me off, it makes me a little ashamed to be a Jazz fan.

TheMagnus wrote:

C'mon man, you know what it means. Favors hasn't earned crap over Millsap, not offensively, not defensively, not anything, whether you're talking about starting or minutes, and Favors doesn't balance the starting lineup out any betther than Millsap.

And your aguments with Harden, guarding the pick-and-roll, and winning over starting are still bogus as argued in another post, they all apply better to Favors than they do to Millsap, and that is exactly my point.

Favors belongs to the Jazz for at least two years and most likely 5. Millsap is a free agent after this year, he is and has been the best player on the team for the last 2 years, he has been nothing but a warrior and a great team guy, he WANTS to play for the Jazz, and here Jazz fans are acting like they are over him and that if he isn't happy with whatever role then he should just leave now. That's stupid on so many levels that it boggles my mind, and here I am the only one trying to explain it.

Sorry, I'm just kind of ranting here Mu, nothing personal, but that shit really pisses me off, it makes me a little ashamed to be a Jazz fan.

No Mag, of course I do know what it means, and I wasn't trying to disrespect you nor act like I'm playing dumb. But you and I have a difference of opinion.
What I was saying was when you have a 3rd year player who has been great for this team up to this point, why does Paul "earn" the spot over him? Pauls been great, but we've all seen that Fav is ready to rock. At what point does a player keep "earning" the starting spot over another? Training camp is coming, Favors has shown some really good skills. But when you start talking about "earning" then I guess it comes down to consistently putting up good numbers and being a good teammate. Thats fine and all, but then what if his numbers are better coming off the bench, and Derricks skills mesh better with Al and the other starters? I can't think of a good example of this right now, only one really is when David Benoit came over from Europe and Ty Corbin was moved to the bench. Ty wanted to be there, played his ass off etc, but he got moved to a 6th man type role. They felt Benoits skills worked better with the starting unit right? I think thats the case here. Ty was still a good player too.....I mean, we need a solid 1-2 punch with our starters and bench because we're one of those teams that dont and can't seem to get superstars. So we desperately need that balance. With Mo/GH/Al and Marv, we need rebounding/size/shot blocking defense. Dont need the scoring Paul would bring. That second unit on the other hand, would need that type of scoring, the vet leadership/toughness etc. I really just think its a good fit.

And Mag, Paul IS undersized against those guys! Its not bogus. What is Paul going to do with Gasol/Dirk/Ibaka?? He can't guard them man! And I know, nobody shuts those guys down, but they make them work for it on both ends. Derrick is quick enough, long enough and big enough to match up with them. Paul just isn't man.

Last, I've posted elsewhere, I want this team as is. I dont even want Josh Smith necessarily anymore for him......well.....maybe I'd entertain that....Anyway! Dont want anyone else for Paul, and want him to stay. But this: "he is and has been the best player on the team for the last 2 years, he has been nothing but a warrior and a great team guy, he WANTS to play for the Jazz So that means he needs to start??? Come on man, Paul is great, GREAT, I love his play and everything. But that still doesn't mean he needs to start! Have to start the players that give Utah the best chance to win, right? Utah has missed the playoffs the last two years and then got smoked last year by San An. We need to improve! And as the best player, Paul disappeared last year. I know how good the Spurs were, but our best player didn't even play well. That matters. Paul isn't getting it done well enough, no matter how much of a warrior he is, nor how good or not he's been as the best player.