The real problem to finish out this season...

I know there's a lot of hand wringing over Corbin, but the real problem down the stretch here is that the Jazz have one of the toughest schedules in the league, while the Lakers, Rockets, and Warriors have some of the easiest...



Image from Ed Kupfer (@EdKupfer)



Just yesterday ESPN 5-on-5 the panel universally chose the Lakers to get in and the Jazz to be left out.

If the want to have any hope of overcomming that the guys that are playing for the Jazz are going to have to be better from here on out.

TheMagnus wrote:

If the want to have any hope of overcomming that the guys that are playing for the Jazz are going to have to be better from here on out.

Mags, I hear what you are saying about it being up to the players, and that Corbin isn't all to blame. But when your team is teetering on the playoff boarder, then a "small thing" like coaching/sub-patterns/starting line-ups can make enough of a difference to make or break a team.

Letting the players decide, through their play, is the best way to get into the playoffs. But while other teams are playing their top dogs, the Jazz have to deal with Watson & Marv (sometimes Tinley & Foye) who, based off their season long performances, shouldn't be seeing the court at all.

Sometimes blaming the coach, refs or other outside forces is just the easy way out for fans. But is there really any question that based off; stats, numbers, advanced stats, casual fan perspective, hard-core fan perspective, etc, that Corbin has been more than questionable in many of his choices this year when it comes to personelle?

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

If the want to have any hope of overcomming that the guys that are playing for the Jazz are going to have to be better from here on out.

Mags, I hear what you are saying about it being up to the players, and that Corbin isn't all to blame. But when your team is teetering on the playoff boarder, then a "small thing" like coaching/sub-patterns/starting line-ups can make enough of a difference to make or break a team.

Letting the players decide, through their play, is the best way to get into the playoffs. But while other teams are playing their top dogs, the Jazz have to deal with Watson & Marv (sometimes Tinley & Foye) who, based off their season long performances, shouldn't be seeing the court at all.

Sometimes blaming the coach, refs or other outside forces is just the easy way out for fans. But is there really any question that based off; stats, numbers, advanced stats, casual fan perspective, hard-core fan perspective, etc, that Corbin has been more than questionable in many of his choices this year when it comes to personelle?

I'll add to that with the exception of Marv, Watson, Tinsley and sometimes Foye, the other Jazz players are playing at a high level - not sure those guys actually have another gear to go to, its a pretty high gear already. For me, the signature condemnation of Corbin is that he now has two games where THREE of his starters didn't score a damn point whereas the subs for these starters have had very impressive games. It just doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the offending 3 players need to be moved to the bench yesterday so that the superior lineup can begin jelling as starters and those guys start getting used to sub minutes. If the Jazz need to count on Marv, Watson, Tinsley and Foye to step up their games it certainly is lottery days ahead for the Jazz!

It's a tired, tired argument from me at this point, and I realize that. We've known about the schedule all year, that was never the problem. It was Corbin since December at least, who was not doing what was best for the team. And now, here we are, after the 6th and 7th seed were lost, and 8th is teetering. Corbin HAS been the problem, because there could have been changes that were made. The schedule wasn't going to change. But doing whats best for the team, letting the players play dictate who plays, and doing whatever it takes to win ball games wasn't done, so now, here we sit. And it's only going to get tougher.

And we probably were spoiled by Jerry, who didn't care who made what and for the most part played the guys that should be. So we've been spoiled. But with how Corbin has hamstrung this team this year, I think he's running neck and neck with Smart in Sac for Least Coach of the Year.

That schedule is a real problem going forward. But it can either be crushing, or manageable......Is Corbin going to make our uphill climb stay in quicksand also, or is he at least going to let our REAL climbers climb??!!

zero24gravity wrote:

Mags, I hear what you are saying about it being up to the players, and that Corbin isn't all to blame. But when your team is teetering on the playoff boarder, then a "small thing" like coaching/sub-patterns/starting line-ups can make enough of a difference to make or break a team.

Letting the players decide, through their play, is the best way to get into the playoffs. But while other teams are playing their top dogs, the Jazz have to deal with Watson & Marv (sometimes Tinley & Foye) who, based off their season long performances, shouldn't be seeing the court at all.

Sometimes blaming the coach, refs or other outside forces is just the easy way out for fans. But is there really any question that based off; stats, numbers, advanced stats, casual fan perspective, hard-core fan perspective, etc, that Corbin has been more than questionable in many of his choices this year when it comes to personelle?

First off, I think it is interesting that this outcry against Corbin has built to a fever pitch now. There are many people here who have been critical of Corbins lineup madness for the better part of the season. Over the last few games Corbin has been leaning heavily on the players that everybody (including Corbin) knows need to be playing, and playing the players that shouldn't be playing less, but the fever pitch is rising now because Corbin refuses to change the starting lineup. I think starting is actually a much more trivial issue than who's getting the minutes, and I think that's why I don't really feel like taking part in the growing fury. I've been dissapointed with Corbin all year, and I don't see what he's doing now as much better or worse than what he's been doing, it's just that it matters more now.

That said, in my previous post I was purposely ambiguous, there are many ways to get the players on the court to play better, one of those ways is to replace worse players with better ones. Still, whether they are starting or coming off the bench, the Jazz will need a better effort from Randy, Marvin, and I'm going to include Jefferson and Mo in that too, if they are going to finish this season strong. Every single one of those guys have performed below their career averages this season, and all accept Mo have been worse than that recently.

I don't really have any hopes for Tinsley and Watson, I can only hope that Watson has played his final minutes as an NBA player, and that Tinsley will see spot duty at most, but my guess is that's not going to happen.

For the young guys I think Burks and Favors need to step it up and be more consistent, and Demarre needs to stop having lapses where he thinks he can just freelance and really ends up hurting the team.

TheMagnus wrote:

First off, I think it is interesting that this outcry against Corbin has built to a fever pitch now. There are many people here who have been critical of Corbins lineup madness for the better part of the season. Over the last few games Corbin has been leaning heavily on the players that everybody (including Corbin) knows need to be playing, and playing the players that shouldn't be playing less, but the fever pitch is rising now because Corbin refuses to change the starting lineup. I think starting is actually a much more trivial issue than who's getting the minutes, and I think that's why I don't really feel like taking part in the growing fury. I've been dissapointed with Corbin all year, and I don't see what he's doing now as much better or worse than what he's been doing, it's just that it matters more now.

That said, in my previous post I was purposely ambiguous, there are many ways to get the players on the court to play better, one of those ways is to replace worse players with better ones. Still, whether they are starting or coming off the bench, the Jazz will need a better effort from Randy, Marvin, and I'm going to include Jefferson and Mo in that too, if they are going to finish this season strong. Every single one of those guys have performed below their career averages this season, and all accept Mo have been worse than that recently.

I don't really have any hopes for Tinsley and Watson, I can only hope that Watson has played his final minutes as an NBA player, and that Tinsley will see spot duty at most, but my guess is that's not going to happen.

For the young guys I think Burks and Favors need to step it up and be more consistent, and Demarre needs to stop having lapses where he thinks he can just freelance and really ends up hurting the team.

Well it would make sense that more people noticed things after awhile of them being pointed out. But you know for me, I've been calling him a bonehead since last April when he removed DC after the great playoff push for Josh Howard. But it DOES matter now. Most people thought Corbin would learn from "mistakes" make adjustments, improve the team. But now here we are teetering on even making the playoffs when were were looking at even homecourt in the first round, and Corbin still hasn't changed the most glaring problem. One of the trib writers called it Marvins "season long slump". Is there any arguing that?? Move his ass out man!!

Usually starting isn't that big a deal (except for when we were talking about Millsap coming off the bench, and I seem to remember a different Mag tune but for this team, those 1st and 3rd quarters are literally killing this team. Killing them. So starting is a huge problem right now. And would you not rather see Marvin going up against teams second units? I know I would, and shhhhhhhhiiiiii, it would probably help Marv too! DC's game doesn't matter where he plays or against who, he hustles. Gets extra possessions. That translates everywhere. He does freelance, and sometimes it hurts. But just as often he's helping the team and getting extra possessions.

The word is BALANCE. And I dont think Corbin knows how to do that, or is completely too stubborn, selfish and arrogant to admit he was wrong. For this team to get to the playoffs, and to play well, he needs to be balanced. Mo will help, DC will crush it.

Mutangclan wrote:

Usually starting isn't that big a deal (except for when we were talking about Millsap coming off the bench, and I seem to remember a different Mag tune but for this team, those 1st and 3rd quarters are literally killing this team. Killing them. So starting is a huge problem right now. And would you not rather see Marvin going up against teams second units? I know I would, and shhhhhhhhiiiiii, it would probably help Marv too! DC's game doesn't matter where he plays or against who, he hustles. Gets extra possessions. That translates everywhere. He does freelance, and sometimes it hurts. But just as often he's helping the team and getting extra possessions.

The word is BALANCE. And I dont think Corbin knows how to do that, or is completely too stubborn, selfish and arrogant to admit he was wrong. For this team to get to the playoffs, and to play well, he needs to be balanced. Mo will help, DC will crush it.

I mostly agree with you here. And if you recall my primary reason for starting Millsap were that he was the Jazz best player, and he still is. I've been with you all season on the need to change the starting lineup, but I'm also willing to acknowlege that changing the minutes like he has is a step in the right direction.

DC does usually crush it, but he really hurt the Jazz in OT against the Bucks. The good news is that is a fixable problem, one that will get better with experience, which he should be getting now.

TheMagnus wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Usually starting isn't that big a deal (except for when we were talking about Millsap coming off the bench, and I seem to remember a different Mag tune but for this team, those 1st and 3rd quarters are literally killing this team. Killing them. So starting is a huge problem right now. And would you not rather see Marvin going up against teams second units? I know I would, and shhhhhhhhiiiiii, it would probably help Marv too! DC's game doesn't matter where he plays or against who, he hustles. Gets extra possessions. That translates everywhere. He does freelance, and sometimes it hurts. But just as often he's helping the team and getting extra possessions.

The word is BALANCE. And I dont think Corbin knows how to do that, or is completely too stubborn, selfish and arrogant to admit he was wrong. For this team to get to the playoffs, and to play well, he needs to be balanced. Mo will help, DC will crush it.

I mostly agree with you here. And if you recall my primary reason for starting Millsap were that he was the Jazz best player, and he still is. I've been with you all season on the need to change the starting lineup, but I'm also willing to acknowlege that changing the minutes like he has is a step in the right direction.

DC does usually crush it, but he really hurt the Jazz in OT against the Bucks. The good news is that is a fixable problem, one that will get better with experience, which he should be getting now.

Hah, I know, just couldn't help a little nudge. And I agree with you Paul is their best player.

I'm agreeing too, it's a step in the right direction, but it's baby steps when we're taking giant leaps backward. It's great and all he's doing what is so blatantly obvious, but how do you pat the guy on the back when it's still an environment for failure?

I dont know about DC really hurting the Jazz in OT. He made mistakes, but also played great D on Monta contesting those buckets that could have been game winners. In the end, DC and his mistakes plus his skills severely out-weigh Marv. So it's still a no-brainer.