Next Season's PG

Next seasons point guard: Damian Lilliard. I feel like it's all there for the taking, N.O. with the 10th pick and wanting to move it. Utah with pieces, players etc that could entice N.O., no? They say absorbing either Okafor or Ariza's contracts....ok, especially on Ariza.
At 10, Lilliard will be available. He's a hometown boy too. It all fits too well. Can it/will it/should it be done?
What would N.O. take from us for the 10th pick????
http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-are-the-hornets-moving-their-pick

(and then move Al to the Hawks for Josh Smith....yikes!)

PG- Damian Lilliard, Earl Watson, Jamal Tinsley
SG- Gordon Hayward, Alec Burks
SF- Josh Smith, Demarre Carroll, Trevor Ariza
PF- Paul Millsap, Jeremy Evans, FA PF/Center(Okafor?)
C- Derrick Favors, Enes Kanter

While I think Lilliard would be a great asset in that 3-4 year window we have been discussing I don't imagine a deal will be done to move up for a CHANCE at him. I could see a team picking him then executing a pre-set trade with the Jazz but I guarantee that no player named Millsap or Jefferson is going to be in that trade. Maybe the GS pick plus the Okur exception. That would raise a question as to what the Jazz would do about the most glaring need for an outside shooter. Perhaps there is where we would wave goodbye to Milly or Al - but no way they get traded for an unproven asset.

Also sounds like the Jazz have until Thursday to act or not on the team option for Tinsley and Carroll. I thought Carroll was a lock but maybe not?

MTJazz wrote:

While I think Lilliard would be a great asset in that 3-4 year window we have been discussing I don't imagine a deal will be done to move up for a CHANCE at him. I could see a team picking him then executing a pre-set trade with the Jazz but I guarantee that no player named Millsap or Jefferson is going to be in that trade. Maybe the GS pick plus the Okur exception. That would raise a question as to what the Jazz would do about the most glaring need for an outside shooter. Perhaps there is where we would wave goodbye to Milly or Al - but no way they get traded for an unproven asset.

Also sounds like the Jazz have until Thursday to act or not on the team option for Tinsley and Carroll. I thought Carroll was a lock but maybe not?

I dont know man, whats Paul making, like 7 million? Yea, I just looked: 6.7 last year, and will be making 7.2 this year and then expires. Thats pretty freaking attractive to another team because of Pauls abilities, drive, good guy team first attitude. I think Paul Millsap is one of the most all around coveted players right now with who he is, how young he is, what he's shown already and the contract he's on.
Outside of maybe Houston, I dont think anyone will want to trade for Al, with him making 14 then 15m next year. Thats just a ton. He's a very very good Center in this league, but thats alot.
I think whats most probable if a trade with a lotto team happens (unfortunately) is that Paul is included in a trade with either Toronto, Detroit or New Orleans for their pick and a player.

Mutangclan wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

While I think Lilliard would be a great asset in that 3-4 year window we have been discussing I don't imagine a deal will be done to move up for a CHANCE at him. I could see a team picking him then executing a pre-set trade with the Jazz but I guarantee that no player named Millsap or Jefferson is going to be in that trade. Maybe the GS pick plus the Okur exception. That would raise a question as to what the Jazz would do about the most glaring need for an outside shooter. Perhaps there is where we would wave goodbye to Milly or Al - but no way they get traded for an unproven asset.

Also sounds like the Jazz have until Thursday to act or not on the team option for Tinsley and Carroll. I thought Carroll was a lock but maybe not?

I dont know man, whats Paul making, like 7 million? Yea, I just looked: 6.7 last year, and will be making 7.2 this year and then expires. Thats pretty freaking attractive to another team because of Pauls abilities, drive, good guy team first attitude. I think Paul Millsap is one of the most all around coveted players right now with who he is, how young he is, what he's shown already and the contract he's on.
Outside of maybe Houston, I dont think anyone will want to trade for Al, with him making 14 then 15m next year. Thats just a ton. He's a very very good Center in this league, but thats alot.
I think whats most probable if a trade with a lotto team happens (unfortunately) is that Paul is included in a trade with either Toronto, Detroit or New Orleans for their pick and a player.

Dude, have you seen what serviceable NBA centers are making these days? Jefferson was a top 5 Center this year. Top 5 NBA Centers get at least 8 figures a year if they don't get the max. Hell, top 20 centers sometimes get 8 figures a year. Jefferson may not be quite as attractive as Millsap, but he's still got good value, especially if he is traded for another guy with a big contract, like Iggy or Josh Smith.

TheMagnus wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

I dont know man, whats Paul making, like 7 million? Yea, I just looked: 6.7 last year, and will be making 7.2 this year and then expires. Thats pretty freaking attractive to another team because of Pauls abilities, drive, good guy team first attitude. I think Paul Millsap is one of the most all around coveted players right now with who he is, how young he is, what he's shown already and the contract he's on.
Outside of maybe Houston, I dont think anyone will want to trade for Al, with him making 14 then 15m next year. Thats just a ton. He's a very very good Center in this league, but thats alot.
I think whats most probable if a trade with a lotto team happens (unfortunately) is that Paul is included in a trade with either Toronto, Detroit or New Orleans for their pick and a player.

TheMagnus wrote:

Dude, have you seen what serviceable NBA centers are making these days? Jefferson was a top 5 Center this year. Top 5 NBA Centers get at least 8 figures a year if they don't get the max. Hell, top 20 centers sometimes get 8 figures a year. Jefferson may not be quite as attractive as Millsap, but he's still got good value, especially if he is traded for another guy with a big contract, like Iggy or Josh Smith.

Hey Magnus, I hope you're right. I hope upon HOPE that Al is traded for Josh Smith. Thats my A#1 Top Most Coveted Hooters and Wings choice. HOWEVER, where Al has some detractors still(certainly on this board!) who say he can't win, doesn't play D etc, Paul Millsap has none. Like, NONE. Everybody loves everything about him. We just so happen to mostly duplicate big man skills.

You're right, they make alot of money. And I'm pretty sure you're echoing my rah rah Al Jeff is great sentiments. And if it involves Philly, Houston or Atl then obviously it would not be Paul Millsap going, it would be Al. But those other teams, I dont think Al is as attractive. UNLESS, it's like you say, a "good value" trade, where Al is traded for someone with an equally large contract. But I think it's limited to those teams for Al, whereas I believe there are a ton of other teams who would want Paul.

Tang, my point is why would the Jazz get rid of one of their best, fairly payed or underpaid players (Millsap), or as Magnus noted a TOP 5 Center at a fair salary, for a mid-lotto pick prospect? That "throw-in" player the other team would have to come up with better have Starter or 6th Man in large capital letters on his new tat! How would you react as a fan if the Jazz had traded Sap for Burks, about the same gamble. Yeah, Burks has upside and I bet Lilliard does as well, but trading a proven on the cusp level all-star at the peak of their prime for potential? I could see it if the Jazz were going after a Dwill caliber player but no one is going there with Lilliard and rightly so. Downgrading in the paint for a new PG, when that position is already well-staffed doesn't make sense IMO. Jazz need a shooter, damnit, and yes, I would wave a sad goodbye to Al or Sap if that hole was significantly upgraded.

MTJazz wrote:

Tang, my point is why would the Jazz get rid of one of their best, fairly payed or underpaid players (Millsap), or as Magnus noted a TOP 5 Center at a fair salary, for a mid-lotto pick prospect? That "throw-in" player the other team would have to come up with better have Starter or 6th Man in large capital letters on his new tat! How would you react as a fan if the Jazz had traded Sap for Burks, about the same gamble. Yeah, Burks has upside and I bet Lilliard does as well, but trading a proven on the cusp level all-star at the peak of their prime for potential? I could see it if the Jazz were going after a Dwill caliber player but no one is going there with Lilliard and rightly so. Downgrading in the paint for a new PG, when that position is already well-staffed doesn't make sense IMO. Jazz need a shooter, damnit, and yes, I would wave a sad goodbye to Al or Sap if that hole was significantly upgraded.

It isn't going to be a one for one, Millsap for lotto pick. And actually it can't in the rulebooks. It'll be a combination of pieces. And the throw in player doesn't have to be a starter. We already have our other starter ready to go: Derrick Favors. Thats no downgrade in the paint and room needs to be made for him. Also, we have holes that need to be filled. (btw, I'm not sure I look at Al's contract, and who I have been big time behind all year, as a "fair salary when he makes double what Paul does. Al 2x Paul???)
Just for example, say it's with Detroit for number 9 and Ben Gordon, or with NO for 10 and Belinelli, or if the rumors are true and Nash to Toronto, then say Paul Millsap or Al go to Toronto for Calderon and number 8????(that would be extreme I admit). New PG and a 3pt shooter, both things we need.
And the teams that are talking about moving their pick, are all saying the same things: they want a starter/young proven player(Millsap). Lilliard has rocketed up all the way to #5 on some draft boards now, he's looking like a starter/star. And we have some duplicated skill sets and need to fill the other holes. Not to mention, Lilliard really is sky-rocketing.
All the GM's say you draft for talent and trade for need. Well, Utah making a trade would be out of need, as would one of those teams getting our guys.

The thing is most teams trading out will want the other team to take off there bad contract player/players and would want a good player back. Thats why KOC has said teams are wanting the moon and stars for a first round pick. We're gonna be taking back a bad contract if the jazz move into the first round this year. Its selling a dream of landing that allstar type player that has a huge price tah. jazz mite be better off going after a free agent than taking on a rookie and a bad contract this year. I'd like to see Nash and Ak signed and see where that takes us. Maybe try Hayward at PG. He can pass and handle the ball pretty good. Dragic would be a nice sign aswell. Things are bright in jazz land.

MTJazz wrote:

Tang, my point is why would the Jazz get rid of one of their best, fairly payed or underpaid players (Millsap), or as Magnus noted a TOP 5 Center at a fair salary, for a mid-lotto pick prospect? That "throw-in" player the other team would have to come up with better have Starter or 6th Man in large capital letters on his new tat! How would you react as a fan if the Jazz had traded Sap for Burks, about the same gamble. Yeah, Burks has upside and I bet Lilliard does as well, but trading a proven on the cusp level all-star at the peak of their prime for potential? I could see it if the Jazz were going after a Dwill caliber player but no one is going there with Lilliard and rightly so. Downgrading in the paint for a new PG, when that position is already well-staffed doesn't make sense IMO. Jazz need a shooter, damnit, and yes, I would wave a sad goodbye to Al or Sap if that hole was significantly upgraded.

I'm telling you guys!!! :

The Blazers, Warriors, Raptors and Hornets are also looking at various options with their picks. I think the Blazers at No. 6 or No. 11 are the likeliest of that bunch to make a trade. They have interest in Jazz forward Paul Millsap and Rockets guard Kyle Lowry.
ESPN.com

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog?name=nba_draft&id=8096957&_slug_=2012-nba-draft-anthony-davis-worth-hype-other-key-questions&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fblog%3fname%3dnba_draft%26id%3d8096957%26_slug_%3d2012-nba-draft-anthony-davis-worth-hype-other-key-questions

Mutangclan wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

Tang, my point is why would the Jazz get rid of one of their best, fairly payed or underpaid players (Millsap), or as Magnus noted a TOP 5 Center at a fair salary, for a mid-lotto pick prospect? That "throw-in" player the other team would have to come up with better have Starter or 6th Man in large capital letters on his new tat! How would you react as a fan if the Jazz had traded Sap for Burks, about the same gamble. Yeah, Burks has upside and I bet Lilliard does as well, but trading a proven on the cusp level all-star at the peak of their prime for potential? I could see it if the Jazz were going after a Dwill caliber player but no one is going there with Lilliard and rightly so. Downgrading in the paint for a new PG, when that position is already well-staffed doesn't make sense IMO. Jazz need a shooter, damnit, and yes, I would wave a sad goodbye to Al or Sap if that hole was significantly upgraded.

I'm telling you guys!!! :

The Blazers, Warriors, Raptors and Hornets are also looking at various options with their picks. I think the Blazers at No. 6 or No. 11 are the likeliest of that bunch to make a trade. They have interest in Jazz forward Paul Millsap and Rockets guard Kyle Lowry.
ESPN.com

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog?name=nba_draft&id=8096957&_slug_=2012-nba-draft-anthony-davis-worth-hype-other-key-questions&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fblog%3fname%3dnba_draft%26id%3d8096957%26_slug_%3d2012-nba-draft-anthony-davis-worth-hype-other-key-questions

No way I do millsap for the #6. Maybe 6 and 11. I think it's high time we give the blazers a taste of their own medicine and make a godfather offer to nic batum.

TheMagnus wrote:

No way I do millsap for the #6. Maybe 6 and 11. I think it's high time we give the blazers a taste of their own medicine and make a godfather offer to nic batum.

Hahaha, hmmm, now I like the way you're thinking!! Batum would be sweeeeeet, adds the defense and 3pt shooting we need. Wonder if thats do-able...

In all seriousness, I can't think of the players that would need to be involved for this actually TO happen. Any help here? I mean if a trade involving Utah and Portland with Millsap going to Portland and #6 coming to Utah happened, what other realistic parts would be needed? You can't trade a 7m a year player for a lottery pick....and obviously Utah wouldn't trade proven stud Paul for unproven lotto pick.

Alright, few of us were high on Mo Williams coming back. I think he is a definite upgrade over Devin. Better shooter, probably slightly
better scorer, better free throw shooter, definitely better 3pt shooter, better passer, better defender. Clippers want to bring Odom back
to LA but need a 3rd team with the Mavs to take Mo's 8.5m contract on so no money comes back to the Mavs. Utah's TPE anyone???
If nothing else is on the horizon for PG help,and the TPE does need to be used by December I believe then.... I think I'm pretty good with this one. Question is do you all feel this would be an upgrade, a "good enough" upgrade, and the foreseeable future PG we needed? I say I fall in the good enough upgrade and would be happy rolling out our lineup with Mo as our guy.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/8100397/sources-los-angeles-clippers-engaged-dallas-mavericks-trade-talks-lamar-odom

Mutangclan wrote:

Alright, few of us were high on Mo Williams coming back. I think he is a definite upgrade over Devin. Better shooter, probably slightly
better scorer, better free throw shooter, definitely better 3pt shooter, better passer, better defender. Clippers want to bring Odom back
to LA but need a 3rd team with the Mavs to take Mo's 8.5m contract on so no money comes back to the Mavs. Utah's TPE anyone???
If nothing else is on the horizon for PG help,and the TPE does need to be used by December I believe then.... I think I'm pretty good with this one. Question is do you all feel this would be an upgrade, a "good enough" upgrade, and the foreseeable future PG we needed? I say I fall in the good enough upgrade and would be happy rolling out our lineup with Mo as our guy.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/8100397/sources-los-angeles-clippers-engaged-dallas-mavericks-trade-talks-lamar-odom

I am on the Mo Williams bus no doubt about it his outside shooting alone would be worth trading for and is one of the Jazz's biggest needs, he would be a big improvement at the PG position for sure.

Jazz Try to Move Up to Grab Lillard?

Fear not, Jazz fans. GM Kevin O’Connor is exploring ways to move up in the draft. They have the Warriors’ pick in 2013 (top-six-protected) and veterans like Paul Millsap, Al Jefferson and Devin Harris, and they might even be willing to add another young player (as long as you don’t ask for Derrick Favors or Enes Kanter).

The question is, how high can they go? Their presumed target is Weber State’s (Damian) Lillard. They need a point guard and know him better than any team in the league. But if they could get higher and get an even better prospect, they would. They like (Bradley) Beal and (Michael) Kidd-Gilchrist a lot, too.

via Chad Ford of ESPN

How freaking reliable is Chad Ford, becuaaaaaaase uhhhh, thats huge. Lilliard?? But then BEAL or MKG????!!!! Whoa. I would love LOVE to get MKG. Nasty, athlete multifaceted. Oi vey.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/jazz-try-to-move-up-to-grab-lillard

If there's a way to get Lilliard/MGK without giving up our 2 big young fellas I say go for it.

Rumor has it Dragic is signing with Houston, Lowry is on the blocks with Toronto or Sacramento a likely home and the Jazz not on Nash's short list. Brian Smith just also posted that while the Jazz tried to move up nothing materialized. So, to no one's real surprise, it looks highly likely the Jazz PG situation will not be altered this week unless somehow they draft an unknown at #47. Who knows what the rest of the summer will bring but I really doubt the Jazz will look much different at the point in 12-13, which isn't a big deal in my book. Will be interesting to see how they address the glaring outside shooting need between now and February.

dongibby wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

dongibby wrote:

One other free-agent PG that I would like to see the Jazz try to sign would be Mo Williams I think he would be another guy that would take the Jazz to the next level.

Well Don I know you've been all about Mo Williams for quite awhile, whats his status? Contract? He can shoot the 3 and is a pretty good scorer, but is he enough of a distributor?? I'm not so sure. Seems he's more Monta Ellis.... I dont know. But having him over Devin I guess I would say Mo better, but not by a landslide.

Mo is not up there is assist with Nash or DWill I think his best season was 7 assist's a game and he has gone up and down from there to 6 and 5 assist's a game so he is not all that bad in that department but I think he bring's leadership to the table and that could really help this group of Kids in the long run. I think with his shooting ablity he will be able to spreed the court for sure and give the bigs room to operate in the paint, they will have to stay home with him for sure.

What would you think about Mo Williams AND Devin Harris?

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8108044/sources-utah-jazz-help-lamar-odom-los-angeles-clippers-deal

What would you think about Mo Williams AND Devin Harris?

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8108044/sources-utah-jazz-help-lamar-odom-los-angeles-clippers-deal[/quote]

That would be an upgrade but good luck deciding who would get starter minutes. Plus, Mo has made it clear he wants to start and will only go to a team with that opening. I also think it would emasculate Harris during a contract year, him knowing that the Jazz would not re-sign him, and that could lead to bad locker room vibe. Someone needs to help me out on the whole PG thing anyway. While the Jazz need to get a PG of the future, there biggest need is an outside scoring 2/3. KOC noted that very thing at the end of the season. Why all this effort to marginally upgrade what Devin can provide? Sure, Mo is a better 3-baller but after that I call it a wash. I would have thought that if the Jazz were going to use the TPE plus take on $8+ million in new salary that would be aimed at acquiring the needed shooter. If anything, on the eve of the draft you'd think Utah would be trolling hard for Portland's 6th pick to snag Lillard, (though I'm sure the Blazers have already said, "Sure, we'll do that tomorrow if you give us Millsap").

MTJazz wrote:

That would be an upgrade but good luck deciding who would get starter minutes. Plus, Mo has made it clear he wants to start and will only go to a team with that opening. I also think it would emasculate Harris during a contract year, him knowing that the Jazz would not re-sign him, and that could lead to bad locker room vibe. Someone needs to help me out on the whole PG thing anyway. While the Jazz need to get a PG of the future, there biggest need is an outside scoring 2/3. KOC noted that very thing at the end of the season. Why all this effort to marginally upgrade what Devin can provide? Sure, Mo is a better 3-baller but after that I call it a wash. I would have thought that if the Jazz were going to use the TPE plus take on $8+ million in new salary that would be aimed at acquiring the needed shooter. If anything, on the eve of the draft you'd think Utah would be trolling hard for Portland's 6th pick to snag Lillard, (though I'm sure the Blazers have already said, "Sure, we'll do that tomorrow if you give us Millsap").

...to which KOC said, "um, no."

I think both of them would get starter minutes, I think Mo could actually be fighting to start at SG as well as PG. Either way, they would both get starter minutes because one or the other of them would log significant minutes at SG. Mo is a combo guard, and actually played most of his minutes at shooting guard this year, so my guess is that is what the Jazz have in mind. They bring in Mo and basically have the team ready to go for next season. Not that they will stop looking for good deals of moves that could bring in top quality players, but if they add Mo they are pretty much good to go with him, Harris and Burks to hold down the guard spots with Hayward giving spot duty, Millsap gets more minutes at SF to fill the gap and make time for the young guys down low while Evans, Carrol, Watson, and random-player-x round out the bench.

With all of the talented young PG's in the league right now guys like Mo Williams and Andre Miller are smoking crack if they think they can start at PG in the NBA next year. It aint gonna happen, and I don't think it will take either of them all that long to come to grips with that reality.

Basketball wise Mo Williams would be a great addition, independently of Harris staying or leaving. If there's no way to kind of miraculously land Lilliard (or may be Dragic), Mo is a right way to try to go IMHO. On the money side of it, he's got one season remaining if the trade actually happen.
Given the circumstances I just can't imagine any better... Jazz really need to address the PG and jumpshooting situations...

outerspacefan wrote:

Basketball wise Mo Williams would be a great addition, independently of Harris staying or leaving. If there's no way to kind of miraculously land Lilliard (or may be Dragic), Mo is a right way to try to go IMHO. On the money side of it, he's got one season remaining if the trade actually happen.
Given the circumstances I just can't imagine any better... Jazz really need to address the PG and jumpshooting situations...

I think the idea would be that Clippers extend him then trade him, ( he has a player option for '12-13 now). Otherwise the Jazz would be adding 8 million to the payroll with both PG's contracts expiring next year. I suppose there is more to Mo than meets the eye but I just don't see why adding his salary in a duplicated slot is very strategic given other needs. Then again, I can surmise that the Jazz FO probably figures that incremental improvements across the board, a little better outside shooting from the PG spot, (and no let up on offense from that spot with the second unit), improved play from Burks, Hayward, Kanter and Favors, inclusive of the former two working diligently on their outside shooting over the summer, will make the Jazz more competitive next year. And, taking a longer view, they are going to have shitloads of salary room to re-tool around the youngsters with at the end of next year. Add a veteran sniper like Korver this year and who knows how good they could be.

TheMagnus wrote:

I think both of them would get starter minutes, I think Mo could actually be fighting to start at SG as well as PG. Either way, they would both get starter minutes because one or the other of them would log significant minutes at SG. Mo is a combo guard, and actually played most of his minutes at shooting guard this year, so my guess is that is what the Jazz have in mind. They bring in Mo and basically have the team ready to go for next season. Not that they will stop looking for good deals of moves that could bring in top quality players, but if they add Mo they are pretty much good to go with him, Harris and Burks to hold down the guard spots with Hayward giving spot duty, Millsap gets more minutes at SF to fill the gap and make time for the young guys down low while Evans, Carrol, Watson, and random-player-x round out the bench.

With all of the talented young PG's in the league right now guys like Mo Williams and Andre Miller are smoking crack if they think they can start at PG in the NBA next year. It aint gonna happen, and I don't think it will take either of them all that long to come to grips with that reality.

Whoa Magnus, you can't possibly put Andre Miller and Mo Williams in the same conversation. Andre is savvy, while Mo can do it all as a PG. I think you guys are vastly under-estimating him. I mean, he hasn't been able to show what he can do almost forever. Can't play PG because of CP3 and before that he was with ball hog Lebron. Either way he still managed to score a bunch and is a very good 3pt shooter.

And I disagree. I think the Jazz thinking is that Mo is being brought in to be the starting PG from now on. He is a starting PG in this league IMO. He is a much better player than Devin, in the team aspect. He is a better shooter, scorer, 3pt shooter, passer and defender. IF, and a big IF Devin is still here, I think he's going to be the change of pace type back up PG.

I'm going to move over to Romo's post on this btw, purely Mo Williams stuff.

I'm on here way too much lately.....

Here's to hoping we hold onto Golden States pick for next year. The chances of Bogut and Curry getting seriously injured are high, they have a second year and rookie probably starting, and David Lee who is only the ultimate role player. The West is still tough.
As excited as I am about Mo, his best years are now and for the next two probably if we resign him or extend him. So we still need a franchise PG.
Hope we keep the pick and its great next year, or we have it for 2013-14.

Also, somewhat related, Scott Machado is playing for Houston in Summer League. Too bad, I was a huge fan of Utah bringing him in and on the team. Still could happen, but slim.