UnderKanter

Calgary Jazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

There you go lying again (we're both having some trouble getting this story straight aren't we?), JV NEVER PLAYED IN THE EUROLEAGUE. I had a bad source and forgot about his Eurobasket 2011 stint, but his numbers and role with his team were even worse than his numbers this summer, and they further reinforce the "representitive and consistent" statement I made earlier, so do you really want me to go there?

magnus, why you arguing?
Check his stats, he played more minutes in Eurobasket 2011 and had way better stats then this summer. He schooled Kaman and Kristic in those games.

http://www.eurobasket2011.com/en/cid_4,w7QjPeH-M,ty138LH2l3.teamID_2135.compID_qMRZdYCZI6EoANOrUf9le2.season_2011.roundID_7526.playerID_62134.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DkzWofJkZk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Bunu1lUoE&feature=relmfu

I already told you he played in Euroleague 2010-2011 season, not last season as his team did not make it. Here is links for his stats:

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=000898


I think you owe me apology for calling me liar.

Dude, did you even look at the stats? He averaged over 5 Turnovers, 6.5 fouls, and only 8 rebounds per 36, that's better?

I'm sorry for calling you a liar, I was wrong, you did not lie about him playing in the Euroleague two years ago.

Your turn....

TheMagnus wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

So here's the question, who would you think needs "game time" and experience MORE?
Is it the player that is not finnishing as well as he should around the basket or hitting his jump shots consistently... or is it the player that can't stay on the court because he's fouling so much and who turns the ball over at nearly double the rate of most of his peers?

Take your time, there are no wrong answers....

hey Calg, you never answered the question...

Still waiting....

TheMagnus wrote:

Dude, did you even look at the stats? He averaged over 5 Turnovers, 6.5 fouls, and only 8 rebounds per 36, that's better?

I'm sorry for calling you a liar, I was wrong, you did not lie about him playing in the Euroleague two years ago.

Your turn....

Not sure how you get 8 reb , 4.1reb per 15 min equals 9.8 per 36. Is my math wrong? I am getting 9.8reb, 20.5pts, 2.64blk per 36min on 66% FG, 75% FT. Yes, fouls and TO is his biggest problems so far. He will need to work on that, otherwise he will have hard time staying on the floor no matter how Casey likes or trusts him.

TheMagnus wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

So here's the question, who would you think needs "game time" and experience MORE?
Is it the player that is not finnishing as well as he should around the basket or hitting his jump shots consistently... or is it the player that can't stay on the court because he's fouling so much and who turns the ball over at nearly double the rate of most of his peers?

Take your time, there are no wrong answers....

hey Calg, you never answered the question...

Still waiting....

They both need as much game experience as possible. Difference is JV played last two years almost non stop including his club games, national team U-19 world championship and Senior team games last year and this year. So you can hardly blame him for not playing as he played every month basicaly. Kanter on the other hand skipped on opportunity to play for his national team. At such young age it is unacceptable in my opinion. No wonder numerous turks in other Jazz forums are so unhappy about it.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

And Picture JV the whole time?

and that is me being juvenile and lame? Weak, romo, weak.

Really? Go back to page 8. You are the one that started the homosexual nonsense. I was just joining the fun..

So if it bothers you to have someone put it back on you don't do it to anyone else anymore.

I don't have a lot to add to the whole Kanter vs JV argument, because there isn't much of an argument to be made by you. You're guy hasn't stepped foot on an NBA court and until he does you really have no ammunition to say how great he is going to be. Even if he turns out to be so much better than Kanter (I highly doubt it) at some point you're going to have to get over it and support the guy that is on the team that you say you love. Either that or change the team you root for!

Calgary Jazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Dude, did you even look at the stats? He averaged over 5 Turnovers, 6.5 fouls, and only 8 rebounds per 36, that's better?

I'm sorry for calling you a liar, I was wrong, you did not lie about him playing in the Euroleague two years ago.

Your turn....

Not sure how you get 8 reb , 4.1reb per 15 min equals 9.8 per 36. Is my math wrong? I am getting 9.8reb, 20.5pts, 2.64blk per 36min on 66% FG, 75% FT. Yes, fouls and TO is his biggest problems so far. He will need to work on that, otherwise he will have hard time staying on the floor no matter how Casey likes or trusts him.

Ya, the fouls I think he fixes fairly quickly, maybe a season or two at th emost, but the turnovers I think are a cause for concern. I just wonder what the driver is for the high numbers, is it correctable or not? The thing about the NBA is that they play so many games and in only takes so much time for the players to learn eachothers weaknesses and exploit them, if JV is having trouble holding onto the ball in the post the vets are going to eat his lunch.

You saw it with Kanter last year, I can't remember how many times he got the chair pulled on him when he was backing guys down. It's comical to watch a big try to recover from having the chair pulled, and that's why his post moves looked so awful on one play and then so sweet the next. His balance was terrible, and he was used to having inexperienced players just push on him in the post. He still hasn't completely overcome that, I saw it happen to him in summer league, but he's getting better, and if he doesn't completely correct his balance problem then he will never be a good post player in the NBA.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

So here's the question, who would you think needs "game time" and experience MORE?
Is it the player that is not finnishing as well as he should around the basket or hitting his jump shots consistently... or is it the player that can't stay on the court because he's fouling so much and who turns the ball over at nearly double the rate of most of his peers?

Take your time, there are no wrong answers....

hey Calg, you never answered the question...

Still waiting....

They both need as much game experience as possible. Difference is JV played last two years almost non stop including his club games, national team U-19 world championship and Senior team games last year and this year. So you can hardly blame him for not playing as he played every month basicaly. Kanter on the other hand skipped on opportunity to play for his national team. At such young age it is unacceptable in my opinion. No wonder numerous turks in other Jazz forums are so unhappy about it.

Cal the truth to the matter is YOU ARE A KANTER HATTER and no matter what he does you are going to find some way to put him down, even if he did play for his Turkey team you would find something else to go after that is a fact. This crap is getting old and I say let's all give it a rest and let things go until the season starts and Kanter show's one way or the other if the things he has worked on over the summer will work for him and the Jazz or not. As for your opinion on Kanter it is full of hate because the Jazz picked him over JV and I have to say I just don't understand why you would let it go this far.

TheMagnus wrote:

Ya, the fouls I think he fixes fairly quickly, maybe a season or two at th emost, but the turnovers I think are a cause for concern. I just wonder what the driver is for the high numbers, is it correctable or not? The thing about the NBA is that they play so many games and in only takes so much time for the players to learn eachothers weaknesses and exploit them, if JV is having trouble holding onto the ball in the post the vets are going to eat his lunch..

Most of his TO are either offensive fouls setting screens or charging into defender. In Europe and FIBA they sometimes call TO on pass receiver, not passer... for example pass was bad and player who was cathing the ball failed to grab it - in NBA it is TO for passer, in FIBA it may end up TO for receiver . He does not travel, does not make crazy bad passes so those TO numbers are a bit weird, watching him play you would not notice that he turns the ball that much. He will get called for offensive goaltending in NBA a lot as he goes for every offensive tip in until he figures differences of rules. I think defensive 3 second rule will be a problem for him at the begining as well.

dongibby wrote:

Cal the truth to the matter is YOU ARE A KANTER HATTER and no matter what he does you are going to find some way to put him down

Don, it is not hate... hm...how to explain to you, because Kanter was picked so high I have him under magnifying glass...kind of trying to figure out was it really right choice for the Jazz or not.
Don't get me wrong, I liked numerous things what Kanter showed so far in his rookie year - like rebounding for example. And his post defense was way better then advertised or I personaly expected. He was not fouling or turning ball over as other numerous rookie big men do which is very encouraging. On the other hand his lack of explosiveness and lenght is frustrating as well as his tunel vision, poor screens and inablity to pass the ball. He is like poor man's AL Jefferson on offense so far, only post up plays relying on his strenght and not skills, not a single pick and roll or pick and pop converted as far as I remember. His FT shooting at 66% is neither bad nor great and needs to improve. He was advertised as having superior footwork and post moves, but besides up and under he did not really show anything else.

Romoholic wrote:

Really? Go back to page 8. You are the one that started the homosexual nonsense. I was just joining the fun..

So if it bothers you to have someone put it back on you don't do it to anyone else anymore.

Well... there was quite a difference. Not in a single post in my life I was posting how great JV's body looks .

Calgary Jazz wrote:

They both need as much game experience as possible. Difference is JV played last two years almost non stop including his club games, national team U-19 world championship and Senior team games last year and this year. So you can hardly blame him for not playing as he played every month basicaly. Kanter on the other hand skipped on opportunity to play for his national team. At such young age it is unacceptable in my opinion. No wonder numerous turks in other Jazz forums are so unhappy about it.

Trying to help your personal attacking views on Kanter again.....

I would love, LOVE to see some examples of this Calgary. Enlighten us.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

dongibby wrote:

Cal the truth to the matter is YOU ARE A KANTER HATTER and no matter what he does you are going to find some way to put him down

Don, it is not hate... hm...how to explain to you, because Kanter was picked so high I have him under magnifying glass...kind of trying to figure out was it really right choice for the Jazz or not.
Don't get me wrong, I liked numerous things what Kanter showed so far in his rookie year - like rebounding for example. And his post defense was way better then advertised or I personaly expected. He was not fouling or turning ball over as other numerous rookie big men do which is very encouraging. On the other hand his lack of explosiveness and lenght is frustrating as well as his tunel vision, poor screens and inablity to pass the ball. He is like poor man's AL Jefferson on offense so far, only post up plays relying on his strenght and not skills, not a single pick and roll or pick and pop converted as far as I remember. His FT shooting at 66% is neither bad nor great and needs to improve. He was advertised as having superior footwork and post moves, but besides up and under he did not really show anything else.

Oh that is rich.....I knew you would have to act like you were spouting positives about him all last year......you said his rebounding was overrated, his defense was extremely poor.......what a shocker you are changing your tune now......

Mutangclan wrote:

Trying to help your personal attacking views on Kanter again.....

I would love, LOVE to see some examples of this Calgary. Enlighten us.

here we go:

http://www.slcdunk.com/2012/7/21/3174529/savsa

And some quotes from some posts:

Originally Posted by PKM
Explain the whole Turkish thing to me, one of you Turkeys. What makes one a Turkish national and have the 'responsibility' to play for the Turkish team? I only ask because Enes was born in Switzerland, played ball in Turkey only a few years, and was really harmed by Fenerbahce in his desire to play college ball in America.
Just curious the politics..

He has nothing to do with Switzerland except he was born in Zurich. His family is from Van which is my city too.
The bad decisions of his career is not only Fenerbahce's fault, he made all the stupid mistakes that he can so far for his career. Maybe it's his agent or his family etc I can't know that but he could have had a much better career path than he actually had, I believe in that way.
About being Turkish and responsibility, ahem I can't explain it really you have to be one of us to know
35 year Kerem Gönlüm canceled his holiday with his family now and took the road to join instead of Enes. It's that kind of attitude a Turkish would expect from Kanter.

The way I see it, ( as a fenerbahce fan) he betrayed the team that invested in him for several years and let him play in a Euroleague game at the age of 16. In my view, if he did not lose couple of years in US and had played in Euroleague, he would have been much better player at the moment. Of course the contrary might be true : everyone would have seen the flaws in his game and he might have not been drafted at 3.
As a young player, we expect him to have pride in playing for National team.

That was a good chance for Enes to compensate his lack of game experience. Actually it was a golden chance since our coach would play him as one of our main players since Aşık and Ersan won't be in the team also. Enes spurned the opportunity and I think it's silly unless he has a very logical and valid reason.
Anyway, so it's not only petty warm-um games, our opponents won't be so strong but they will do everything to qualify for the Eurobasket 2013, and they are looking for an upset since Turkey will be shorn of many main players like Hedo/Ersan/Aşık/Onan/Tunçeri.
And we are angry at Enes, because he said he was gonna join to the team after orlando summer league but he changed his mind suddenly and dumped the NT without giving any reason or explanation.
I still can not believe how he doesn't want to seize this golden opportunity to play at least 15-20 decent games as one of the main players of the Turkish NT

Seriously, this is as disheartening or more disheartening as his summer league performance. He's either an idiot or acting on the counsel of idiots. And this is not new, playing professionally then trying to play in the NCAA was a dumb move. Not playing in Europe or China during the lockout was a dumb move. His decisions leading up to the draft were also poor, despite being picked 3rd overall.

He made announcements like that in the past. He's young, he's surrounded buy people who tell him exaggerated things about his value and therefore he sees himself higher above many things he should be dealing with. That's natural for his situation, but at the same time, the reactions that will come back from the Turkish supporters will be natural. Us Turks are emotional when it comes to nationalist issues -especially about sports issues- so Kanter will taste a bite from that cake. If he cares about gaining appreciation in his hometown -although I definitely think he does not judging by his mood to route his career- the only way is through supporting the national team for whole of his career. Okur once refused to come and he became a traitor in the eyes of many Turks without delay.
I think this is being too hard on the star players. They have individual careers to take care of, on which they'll build their whole life. And hometown crowds won't have much real impact on those careers that's for sure. Same for Enes, he'll have to take care of himself. That includes watching out for black-hearted exploiting dickweeds up from his manager to the people hw sees the least. But, both Enes and players like him that suddenly looked like an acehole in the public eye must feel the necessity to erase that image, gesture them, make them feel like you always care about the NT and will support it whenever possible. Otherwise, it'll be one hell of a negative kharma on ya pal.

I do not know who is fooler. Kanter's agent Max Ergul or Kanter. It is not about being emotional but keeping your promises. Kanter's behaved as a 9 year old child and hiden behind of his dad. And his dad's declaration is just a piece of ....
If you look at the event as Jazz, it sucks again too. Turkish national team's manager has just told that jazz let him to play in the tournament, gain experience and the federation paid 70 K for the insurance stuff.

I am pissed. Enes didn't give a **** to find time for a simple explanation. His father wrote something that doesn't include Enes' reasoning. Like I said in another thread, We want to be successful in basketball arenas, and we (Turkey) need our best players to achieve it. In USA you may pick up players from trees, but that's not the case for Turkey. I, for one, want to beat the USA in finals in Olympics or World Championship.

I CALL BULLSH*T ON ALL OF THAT CRAP the guy is pissed because Kanter did not want to play for them and is running off at the mouth just like Cal. LOL

We heard what this clown had to say about Corbin not knowing anything about basketball or how to coach witch is also a bunch of bull, again I say there is a reason why all of those Turkey player's did not want to play this year and if that reason is good enough for them to not want to return then it is good enough for Kanter as well.

(What makes one a Turkish national and have the 'responsibility' to play for the Turkish team)

It goes for all of the other players that did not want to play for the Turkey team this season they also have the same responsiblitys to play as Kanter did but I don't see this Clown spouting off at the mouth about those guys. You are grasping at straws Cal for anything you can use to put this Kid down make's you look pretty dam little IMO.

so Turks are all butt hurt that he didn't play for the national team, who can blame them? I mean he was supposed to be a great hope for them, they see in him great potential, and being not from the USA think that any decision to stay in the USA and play in the NCAA, D-League, or just work out with other NBA players is the height of stupidity. That's a bias that is so ingrained in foreigners I wonder if they have subliminal messages encoded in Al-Jezeera and the BBC that repeat the mantra's of football, European basketball, and death to America non-stop.

Bias. Ya, I meant to say that, because that is all it is. Dumb bias. There is pretty much zero evidence that playing for a national team or playing in the euro-league has any positive effect on a players NBA career. In fact I'd argue that if they want to play in the NBA they are better off coming over and playing in the NCAA, and if they want to improve their NBA skills they are better off working with team trainers and playing summer league and pickup games with their NBA and NCAA peers, and I've got examples 10 to 1 that prove that I'd be right.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Trying to help your personal attacking views on Kanter again.....

I would love, LOVE to see some examples of this Calgary. Enlighten us.

here we go:

http://www.slcdunk.com/2012/7/21/3174529/savsa

And some quotes from some posts:

Wow. What a waste of space that was......Don you are exactly right, just running his mouth off like....and Mag too of course: Butt Hurt. Thats it.

Quite simply, Enes plays for the best league in the world now, missed the hugely important first off season during the lockout, and needed and WANTED to make up for that, with the best training in the world, verses just playing in some lesser games. With his coaches(bosses) LOVING his decision. Simple.

PS Calgary: love how you're NOWwwwwwww saying that Kanter had all these positives. Keep it up, I've been saying it all along...... Num num num, tastes good.....

PPS: I can imagine what you'd say, but would you say that UnderKanter and JV are getting the same starting point this season? Both get all the offseason training, both get training camps, both played professionally last year. So comparing both of their seasons this year would be fair? Or are you going to just want to compare rookie seasons, something lame like that.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

dongibby wrote:

Cal the truth to the matter is YOU ARE A KANTER HATTER and no matter what he does you are going to find some way to put him down

Don, it is not hate... hm...how to explain to you, because Kanter was picked so high I have him under magnifying glass...kind of trying to figure out was it really right choice for the Jazz or not.
Don't get me wrong, I liked numerous things what Kanter showed so far in his rookie year - like rebounding for example. And his post defense was way better then advertised or I personaly expected. He was not fouling or turning ball over as other numerous rookie big men do which is very encouraging. On the other hand his lack of explosiveness and lenght is frustrating as well as his tunel vision, poor screens and inablity to pass the ball. He is like poor man's AL Jefferson on offense so far, only post up plays relying on his strenght and not skills, not a single pick and roll or pick and pop converted as far as I remember. His FT shooting at 66% is neither bad nor great and needs to improve. He was advertised as having superior footwork and post moves, but besides up and under he did not really show anything else.

Instead of piling on Calg, I'm going to say that this particular explanation of Enes is very similar to how I feel about him. I have hope for him, but have just as many concerns. His lack of NBA level speed & athletisism has always worried me. He was supposed to be the next coming of Okur from a jump shooting perspective, but I didn't see that at all last season. He definitely has big time rebounding skills and knows how to clear space. He also has more than enough stregth & an NBA body. It'll be interesting to see how things work out for him. I'm rooting for him, but I also have lower expectations for him than other people in this forum, despite being the #3 overall pick (in what was considered a very weak draft). I also really don't think he'll even get a chance to shine unless an injury or a trade happes with Favors, Millsap or Al.

Mutangclan wrote:

Wow. What a waste of space that was......Don you are exactly right, just running his mouth off like....and Mag too of course: Butt Hurt. Thats it.

his? that's quotes from like 5 different posters.

Mutangclan wrote:

PPS: I can imagine what you'd say, but would you say that UnderKanter and JV are getting the same starting point this season? Both get all the offseason training, both get training camps, both played professionally last year. So comparing both of their seasons this year would be fair? Or are you going to just want to compare rookie seasons, something lame like that.

Why should we not compare rookie seasons? JV will need time to get used to NBA rules. As I mentioned he will get called for defensive 3 seconds and defensive and offensive goaltending untill he figures it out. Those instincts to go for the ball on the rim are difficult to control for European players when they come to NBA. Actually I can't wait for NBA to get rid of the stupidest from all - above the cylinder rule, as it is so subjective and makes no sense at all.
But even if it is JV's rookie season he most likely will have better overall numbers then Kanter anyway. Just because he has lots of playing time waiting for him while Kanter is stuck behind Big AL, Favors and Millsap unless trades or injuries happens. So yeah, at the end we can certainly watch how they both do this season.
I think that JV will have better FG, FT, BLK and AST numbers. Kanter will have better REB and will have less TO and PF. PTS and STL could be close.
What is your realistic, ( not most optimistic) prediction for Kanter this season?
I say 8pts/6reb, 0.3ast, 0.5stl, 0.5blk in 17min of playing time. I really hope he improves his FT to at least 75%, 66% is not acceptable.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

PPS: I can imagine what you'd say, but would you say that UnderKanter and JV are getting the same starting point this season? Both get all the offseason training, both get training camps, both played professionally last year. So comparing both of their seasons this year would be fair? Or are you going to just want to compare rookie seasons, something lame like that.

Why should we not compare rookie seasons? JV will need time to get used to NBA rules. As I mentioned he will get called for defensive 3 seconds and defensive and offensive goaltending untill he figures it out. Those instincts to go for the ball on the rim are difficult to control for European players when they come to NBA. Actually I can't wait for NBA to get rid of the stupidest from all - above the cylinder rule, as it is so subjective and makes no sense at all.
But even if it is JV's rookie season he most likely will have better overall numbers then Kanter anyway. Just because he has lots of playing time waiting for him while Kanter is stuck behind Big AL, Favors and Millsap unless trades or injuries happens. So yeah, at the end we can certainly watch how they both do this season.
I think that JV will have better FG, FT, BLK and AST numbers. Kanter will have better REB and will have less TO and PF. PTS and STL could be close.

What is your realistic, ( not most optimistic) prediction for Kanter this season?

I say 8pts/6reb, 0.3ast, 0.5stl, 0.5blk in 17min of playing time. I really hope he improves his FT to at least 75%, 66% is not acceptable.

Solid post and solid question. I do side with Mu though on the season comparison, you have been relentlessly touting JV's experience and performance abroad and Kanters lack thereof, so going back on all that and comparing 19 year old Kanter against 20 year old JV as if none of that mattered seems like a HUGE cop out.

I agree with your assesment of winners and losers (as long as we are talking per36 numbers) with the exception of assists, neither of them are good passers so I'd move AST into the tossup category with steals.

Per game I think that Kanters numbers will be lower pretty much accross the board though, because I think JV will play almost twice as much as he does. There simply isn't any room in the rotation for Kanter unless somebody gets hurt, while the biggest thing holding JV back from 30 minutes a game in a terrible Raptors frontcourt will be foul trouble.

Per36 I think Kanter gets 14 pts, 12 reb, 1 ast, 1 stl, 1 blk, and 2ish TO on 50% fg and 70% ft.

Per game I think Kanter only pulls down about 12 minutes and so his averages are something like 5/4/.3/.3/.3/1.

TheMagnus wrote:

I agree with your assesment of winners and losers (as long as we are talking per36 numbers) with the exception of assists, neither of them are good passers so I'd move AST into the tossup category with steals.

Per game I think that Kanters numbers will be lower pretty much accross the board though, because I think JV will play almost twice as much as he does. There simply isn't any room in the rotation for Kanter unless somebody gets hurt, while the biggest thing holding JV back from 30 minutes a game in a terrible Raptors frontcourt will be foul trouble.

Per36 I think Kanter gets 14 pts, 12 reb, 1 ast, 1 stl, 1 blk, and 2ish TO on 50% fg and 70% ft.

Per game I think Kanter only pulls down about 12 minutes and so his averages are something like 5/4/.3/.3/.3/1.

JV is much better passer then Kanter. I have seen him pulling out no look passes or very accurate passes to the baseline cutters. Kanter on the other hand has hard time completing even simple passes. Total of 8 assists last season?
I am surprised you expect Kanter to play less then last season... I think he will get few more minutes then last year injuries or not... you just can't keep your 3d pick on the bench for so long. It is not Sloan's Jazz anymore...

Calgary Jazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

I agree with your assesment of winners and losers (as long as we are talking per36 numbers) with the exception of assists, neither of them are good passers so I'd move AST into the tossup category with steals.

Per game I think that Kanters numbers will be lower pretty much accross the board though, because I think JV will play almost twice as much as he does. There simply isn't any room in the rotation for Kanter unless somebody gets hurt, while the biggest thing holding JV back from 30 minutes a game in a terrible Raptors frontcourt will be foul trouble.

Per36 I think Kanter gets 14 pts, 12 reb, 1 ast, 1 stl, 1 blk, and 2ish TO on 50% fg and 70% ft.

Per game I think Kanter only pulls down about 12 minutes and so his averages are something like 5/4/.3/.3/.3/1.

JV is much better passer then Kanter. I have seen him pulling out no look passes or very accurate passes to the baseline cutters. Kanter on the other hand has hard time completing even simple passes. Total of 8 assists last season?
I am surprised you expect Kanter to play less then last season... I think he will get few more minutes then last year injuries or not... you just can't keep your 3d pick on the bench for so long. It is not Sloan's Jazz anymore...

Whatever man, JV wasn't much better, he averaged around 1 assist in 23 minutes per game with his club, and he had exactly 1 assist in 135 minutes of action this summers Olympic tournaments. Kanter didn't pass much as a rookie, but averaged 1.5 ast in 26 minutes of action per game in the summer league where passing isn't exactly at a premium, he had at least 1 assist in every game, and that is as good or better than JV has ever done.

This isn't going ot turn into another "AK is a better passer than Hayward" thing is it?

Maybe if JV stoped thinking he was Rubio throwing no-look passes he wouldn't be turning the ball over so much?

TheMagnus wrote:

Per36 I think Kanter gets 14 pts, 12 reb, 1 ast, 1 stl, 1 blk, and 2ish TO on 50% fg and 70% ft.

Per game I think Kanter only pulls down about 12 minutes and so his averages are something like 5/4/.3/.3/.3/1.

That looks about right. As I mentioned in another post if Kanter is able to put up those numbers on limited minutes, on a per 36 he is more than capable of starting AFTER this year is over. My guess is the Jazz are more than happy to develop him all season, get him just enough minutes to be involved and to learn. He is very much part of the future of the Jazz, twinned with Favors in the paint, Heyward and Burks on the wings and Mo running the point. A nice mix of young veterans and the prime of career quaterback. Where Sap and/or Big Al fit in...really hard to know at this point. If the Jazz can find good offensive production in a balanced attack my guess is Al is odd man out. I have absolutely no reservation that Kanter will become worthy of the 3rd pick in a weak draft, his potential is off the charts as a solid big man who has a very decent shot, with minutes, of leading the lead in rebounds.

TheMagnus wrote:

Per36 I think Kanter gets 14 pts, 12 reb, 1 ast, 1 stl, 1 blk, and 2ish TO on 50% fg and 70% ft.

Calg :" I say 8pts/6reb, 0.3ast, 0.5stl, 0.5blk in 17min of playing time. I really hope he improves his FT to at least 75%, 66% is not acceptable. "

Which = 16.9 pts, 12.7 reb, 0.6 ast, 1.1 stl, 1.1 blk per 36 minutes.

.......... looks like even though you seem to be on different ends of this debate you pick Enes to have almost identical production. As a matter of fact, Calg's predictions are slighly higher in all cat's except assists .... interesting

TheMagnus wrote:

Whatever man, JV wasn't much better, he averaged around 1 assist in 23 minutes per game with his club, and he had exactly 1 assist in 135 minutes of action this summers Olympic tournaments. Kanter didn't pass much as a rookie, but averaged 1.5 ast in 26 minutes of action per game in the summer league where passing isn't exactly at a premium, he had at least 1 assist in every game, and that is as good or better than JV has ever done.

This isn't going ot turn into another "AK is a better passer than Hayward" thing is it?

See, you judge by stats which could be deceiving as in FIBA they do not give assist to the guy if scorer made any dribble or two steps before converting the basket. In NBA I have seen assists given after player received ball at 3 pt line, drove all the way to the basket and scored layup. Thats why Rubio assist numbers in Europe were not even close to what he is averaging in NBA.
I judge from the games I saw. JV is good passer, Kanter is not. I honestly think passing is worst part of Kanter's game. So even if we look at stats in similar conditions like in Eurobasket 2011 Kanter had 0.5ast per game in 17.8 min, JV had 0.9 ast in 15.7min. Convert to 36min stats and it is 1 to 2. I could bet anything JV will have more assists then Kanter next season.

TheMagnus wrote:

Solid post and solid question. I do side with Mu though on the season comparison, you have been relentlessly touting JV's experience and performance abroad and Kanters lack thereof, so going back on all that and comparing 19 year old Kanter against 20 year old JV as if none of that mattered seems like a HUGE cop out.

Calgary????