UnderKanter

Mutangclan wrote:

JV was playing all that pro-ball, was so much smarter getting all that work in, Enes was "so dumb" for not going and playing more ball verses getting his body ready and working with pros, and yet......UnderKanter is still the better player.

No, he is not. Based on Hollingers advanced stats , PER ( 14.1 vs 13.7) or NBA.com Eff ( 11 vs 7.3) JV is better.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c/qualified/false

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Again, do not forget that Kanter gets his stats vs second units while JV vs starters.

I'm not planning on getting in the middle of this & I haven't seen enough of Jonas to make a comparison. But I will say that when comparing their stats, there is some validity to this particular point made by CJ. (I, however, disagree with other parts of his argument.)

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Wait a second!!! Kanter has a higher FG%, Reb, STls, PTs and fouls less too??? And JV with all his shotblocking is basically tied with Enes??? But wait, JV has all that WINGSPAN!!!

You obviously looking at per 36 min numbers which mean crap to me as low minute players never sustain their production per 36min. It is funny how you say that Kanter leading in steals, 0.5 vs 0.4 yet he is "basically tied" in blocks 1.3 vs 1.8. Very objective lol. Even per 36min JV has more then twice assists, Blocks, way less TO's, better FT% and most importantly he does it with much lower usage rate. Add into fact that he plays vs starters - means vs much better players then Kanter who plays second units 90% of the time and it is not even close.
Again, look at normal stats not per 36min. Nobody is handing contracts or awards based on per 36 min stats. Kanter has advantage in FG% thats it, everything else is JV who has upper hand. Again, do not forget that Kanter gets his stats vs second units while JV vs starters. To me it is very obvious who has better stats at this point. To bad your pink homer glasses blinding you.

Good Point Calgary!!!! Way to go, you are correct. Lets say tied in both....HOWEVER, nobody has been talking about how great Kanter is at stealing the ball. You however, have touted JV's shotblocking ability, when he and Kanter both are getting about one and a half a game.

Hahahaha, you gotta be kidding me with the pink homer stuff.....with how much you talk about JV and how great he is, I'm the homer??? Haha.....

So back to second Unit stuff.....let see, JV is starting yet getting his ass yanked quickly because he's not getting the job done. So when he does come back in the game, who do you think he's going up against??? At 19 mins per.....ummmmm, pretty sure he's not spending all his time against the starters. Not to mention, he's not out there finishing close games, and when he is out there to finish, it's in blowouts, just like the Jazz game. So who exactly is JV getting his minutes against???

I love it. 36 mins per means "crap" to you, unless you're touting the stats JV has over Kanter. And low minute players rarely sustain their production for 36, except for.....that.....Kanter has. And AAAAahahahahaha, I love your ridiculous touting Calgary : Even per 36min JV has more then twice assists, and folks, Calgary is right. JV is averaging TWO ASSISTS, to Kanters 1. Wow, good pull Calgary!! And per 36 JV has more blocks??? You mean 1.3 to 1.8???? Seriously!! Hahaha, you are so freaking silly.

I love it; you'll twist and turn anything you can to try and help your opinions.....

PS- pssssst, Calgary, since you're a Jazz fan, I thought I should tell you you've COMPLETELY forgotten to put in your fan-excitement over how good the 2nd year Center has played, and how the future is looking kinda bright with he and Favors. Just fyi.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Lately is JV getting the "rookie treatment"....um hmmm. Right.

He is getting rookie treatment since first game. Every game he gets called for 1-2 nonsense fouls or obvious fouls on him are not being called. Thats ok, it is not going to last forever, by next season it will be over.

HOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMERRRRRRRR. *

*: your opinions about how JV is treated is NOT, actually fact.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

We now have two matchups; the first being that Nike Summit whatever, where Kanter obliterated JV. But of course, to Calgary that doesn't count.

Obviously it does not count as JV never played vs Kanter in Nike summit whatever.

Which one was it Calgary, when Kanter destroyed JV then?? I know you remember.....

Mutangclan wrote:

So back to second Unit stuff.....let see, JV is starting yet getting his ass yanked quickly because he's not getting the job done. So when he does come back in the game, who do you think he's going up against??? At 19 mins per.....ummmmm, pretty sure he's not spending all his time against the starters. Not to mention, he's not out there finishing close games, and when he is out there to finish, it's in blowouts, just like the Jazz game. So who exactly is JV getting his minutes against???

And you know this exactly how? Based on one JV's game you watched vs Jazz? Don't be ridiculous.

Here, watch how he is "not getting job done".

22pts, 7reb, 3ast,3blk, vs Duncan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuCi6cQmVO8

12pts/10reb in his NBA debut vs Hibbert

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-BQS-ho7NE

16pts10reb,2ast, 1blk vs Charlotte
11pts/11reb, 3ast,3blk, vs Sixers.

Yup, not getting job done, lol. 3 double doubles as rookie in 21 games while Kanter had 87games to post exactly 1.

Mutangclan wrote:

You however, have touted JV's shotblocking ability, when he and Kanter both are getting about one and a half a game.

You got to love the way you twist stats to make it look better. 1.1 bl vs 0.6 is not 1.5 half per game in 36min. It is 1.8 vs 1.3. If you want to round up, fine it is 2 vs 1.5 - learn some basic math!

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

You however, have touted JV's shotblocking ability, when he and Kanter both are getting about one and a half a game.

You got to love the way you twist stats to make it look better. 1.1 bl vs 0.6 is not 1.5 half per game in 36min. It is 1.8 vs 1.3. If you want to round up, fine it is 2 vs 1.5 - learn some basic math!

Ummmmmm, well.....I put in there on that last page 1.3 to 1.8 soooooo, not sure what you're referring to....but....nice to see your feet stomping is still there. So funny whenever Kanter makes you look foolish, you come back like an angry juvenile.... Thats cute. Try to temper your temper there Canuck, and read the posts before you rant. Makes you look silly.

So 1.5 to 2 blks per 36.....but JV is the "obviously" better shotblocker???? Oh yea, he's killing Kanter in that category....

Calgary Jazz wrote:

And you know this exactly how? Based on one JV's game you watched vs Jazz? Don't be ridiculous.

Here, watch how he is "not getting job done".

22pts, 7reb, 3ast,3blk, vs Duncan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuCi6cQmVO8

12pts/10reb in his NBA debut vs Hibbert

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-BQS-ho7NE

16pts10reb,2ast, 1blk vs Charlotte
11pts/11reb, 3ast,3blk, vs Sixers.

Yup, not getting job done, lol. 3 double doubles as rookie in 21 games while Kanter had 87games to post exactly 1.

Actually Angry Doctor, I've seen alot of the Raptors games. I have the NBA ticket out here in Maryland (even tho I'm not a rich doctor !!) , so I've seen plenty of the Raptors games. Not to mention I enjoy watching Lowry, not the least of which because I have him in both my leagues. Sooooo dont be so douchey.

Secondly, lets act like grownups here, and give actual meaningful stats. What matters more, 87 games to 21 games, or the ACTUAL fact of 21 starts to 1 start???? Hmmmm????

Mutangclan wrote:

Actually Angry Doctor, I've seen alot of the Raptors games. I have the NBA ticket out here in Maryland (even tho I'm not a rich doctor !!) , so I've seen plenty of the Raptors games. Not to mention I enjoy watching Lowry, not the least of which because I have him in both my leagues. Sooooo dont be so douchey.

Secondly, lets act like grownups here, and give actual meaningful stats. What matters more, 87 games to 21 games, or the ACTUAL fact of 21 starts to 1 start???? Hmmmm????

You enjoy watching Lowry??? To me he is one of the main reasons Raptors lost so many close games ( vs Charlotte and Detroit for example if you watched then) due to his his "hero ball", chucking idiotic shots early in the clock, gambling on steals and leaving his man open or chasing offensive rebounds he has no business of getting while leaving his man for easy fast breaks. Lowry is great fantasy player, would never want it on my team or play with player like that. No basketball IQ at all, dumb as brick one man show. Greta heart and hustle though.
Starts mean nothing I already told you and not sure why you implying on starts as some kind of value. Ginobili is not starting, Koufos is starting. Does it mean anything in the big picture?

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Actually Angry Doctor, I've seen alot of the Raptors games. I have the NBA ticket out here in Maryland (even tho I'm not a rich doctor !!) , so I've seen plenty of the Raptors games. Not to mention I enjoy watching Lowry, not the least of which because I have him in both my leagues. Sooooo dont be so douchey.

Secondly, lets act like grownups here, and give actual meaningful stats. What matters more, 87 games to 21 games, or the ACTUAL fact of 21 starts to 1 start???? Hmmmm????

You enjoy watching Lowry??? To me he is one of the main reasons Raptors lost so many close games ( vs Charlotte and Detroit for example if you watched then) due to his his "hero ball", chucking idiotic shots early in the clock, gambling on steals and leaving his man open or chasing offensive rebounds he has no business of getting while leaving his man for easy fast breaks. Lowry is great fantasy player, would never want it on my team or play with player like that. No basketball IQ at all, dumb as brick one man show. Greta heart and hustle though.
Starts mean nothing I already told you and not sure why you implying on starts as some kind of value. Ginobili is not starting, Koufos is starting. Does it mean anything in the big picture?

Boy oh boy, that was a lot of ignoring of posts there Calgary.....interesting.

Yea, I enjoy watching Lowry because he is a fantasy stud, and on both my teams. When I want to watch my team and good basketball from young studs, I watch the Jazz. You know, because I'm a Jazz fan, not a fan of some other team or certain player.

Excuse me, I thought we were being logical. When I say "starts" I'm also referring to minutes. Kanter in all those games, has never gotten the minutes JV has, because unlike JV, Kanter is playing behind two all star caliber players. I actually thought you were going to be logical.......my bad. MINUTES, minutes are what we'll say, and the big picture. And the whole point of talking about the START, was that they were facing off. And Kanter won, again. He's 2-0 against JV. And even though JV has been getting a SHIT TON more minutes than Kanter, he's still easily right there statistically. Even the vaunted shotblocking ability that according to you, JV brings, Kanter is right there, 1.3 to 1.8. Soooooooo, yea, not so much.
Actually.......ehhhhhhhhh, this is really like talking with a wall again. As a well learned rich Doctor, you dont even discuss this situation like one....soooo I'm tired of it.

You go ahead and stick to your "Expert" guns, that Hayward and Kanter were terrible picks and will be off the Jazz, or in Kanters case out of the league entirely. And I'll stick to my guns that both of them will show they were great picks, and be very good players for the Jazz.

Mutangclan wrote:

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Actually Angry Doctor, I've seen alot of the Raptors games. I have the NBA ticket out here in Maryland (even tho I'm not a rich doctor !!) , so I've seen plenty of the Raptors games. Not to mention I enjoy watching Lowry, not the least of which because I have him in both my leagues. Sooooo dont be so douchey.

Secondly, lets act like grownups here, and give actual meaningful stats. What matters more, 87 games to 21 games, or the ACTUAL fact of 21 starts to 1 start???? Hmmmm????

You enjoy watching Lowry??? To me he is one of the main reasons Raptors lost so many close games ( vs Charlotte and Detroit for example if you watched then) due to his his "hero ball", chucking idiotic shots early in the clock, gambling on steals and leaving his man open or chasing offensive rebounds he has no business of getting while leaving his man for easy fast breaks. Lowry is great fantasy player, would never want it on my team or play with player like that. No basketball IQ at all, dumb as brick one man show. Greta heart and hustle though.
Starts mean nothing I already told you and not sure why you implying on starts as some kind of value. Ginobili is not starting, Koufos is starting. Does it mean anything in the big picture?

Boy oh boy, that was a lot of ignoring of posts there Calgary.....interesting.

Yea, I enjoy watching Lowry because he is a fantasy stud, and on both my teams. When I want to watch my team and good basketball from young studs, I watch the Jazz. You know, because I'm a Jazz fan, not a fan of some other team or certain player.

Excuse me, I thought we were being logical. When I say "starts" I'm also referring to minutes. Kanter in all those games, has never gotten the minutes JV has, because unlike JV, Kanter is playing behind two all star caliber players. I actually thought you were going to be logical.......my bad. MINUTES, minutes are what we'll say, and the big picture. And the whole point of talking about the START, was that they were facing off. And Kanter won, again. He's 2-0 against JV. And even though JV has been getting a SHIT TON more minutes than Kanter, he's still easily right there statistically. Even the vaunted shotblocking ability that according to you, JV brings, Kanter is right there, 1.3 to 1.8. Soooooooo, yea, not so much.
Actually.......ehhhhhhhhh, this is really like talking with a wall again. As a well learned rich Doctor, you dont even discuss this situation like one....soooo I'm tired of it.

You go ahead and stick to your "Expert" guns, that Hayward and Kanter were terrible picks and will be off the Jazz, or in Kanters case out of the league entirely. And I'll stick to my guns that both of them will show they were great picks, and be very good players for the Jazz.

That was asinine in the first place, but even more so now that we have seen the progress the Big Turkey is making.

Romoholic wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

You go ahead and stick to your "Expert" guns, that Hayward and Kanter were terrible picks and will be off the Jazz, or in Kanters case out of the league entirely. And I'll stick to my guns that both of them will show they were great picks, and be very good players for the Jazz.

That was asinine in the first place, but even more so now that we have seen the progress the Big Turkey is making.

Hah, of course it was. I could see the talent in there, I imagine others could too. Lol, but there was only one person calling himself the Objective Expert

Mutangclan wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

You go ahead and stick to your "Expert" guns, that Hayward and Kanter were terrible picks and will be off the Jazz, or in Kanters case out of the league entirely. And I'll stick to my guns that both of them will show they were great picks, and be very good players for the Jazz.

That was asinine in the first place, but even more so now that we have seen the progress the Big Turkey is making.

Hah, of course it was. I could see the talent in there, I imagine others could too. Lol, but there was only one person calling himself the Objective Expert

When has KOC ever let us down with a number 3 pick? Never, all 2 of them. As an unabashed Kanter fan I will go on record right here and predict that Kanter is going to be a more complete baller than Favors. There is no reason Kanter can't learn better D tactics - Favors has a 1 year head start (only counting pro ball) - and Kanter clearly has every bit the paint moves not to mention an outside shot. If anyone doesn't live up to the third pick it is gonna be Favors, though I think he clearly is going to be a good player in the league for a long time.

MTJazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

You go ahead and stick to your "Expert" guns, that Hayward and Kanter were terrible picks and will be off the Jazz, or in Kanters case out of the league entirely. And I'll stick to my guns that both of them will show they were great picks, and be very good players for the Jazz.

That was asinine in the first place, but even more so now that we have seen the progress the Big Turkey is making.

Hah, of course it was. I could see the talent in there, I imagine others could too. Lol, but there was only one person calling himself the Objective Expert

When has KOC ever let us down with a number 3 pick? Never, all 2 of them. As an unabashed Kanter fan I will go on record right here and predict that Kanter is going to be a more complete baller than Favors. There is no reason Kanter can't learn better D tactics - Favors has a 1 year head start (only counting pro ball) - and Kanter clearly has every bit the paint moves not to mention an outside shot. If anyone doesn't live up to the third pick it is gonna be Favors, though I think he clearly is going to be a good player in the league for a long time.

Hey, I'm right there with you MT, you know I've been calling him a stud since Euro ball after he was drafted. I went on and on about the skills he was showing, and got alot of folk saying they weren't ready yet to get on the UnderKanter train. But, I've liked him since the beginning, regardless of naysayers!

Kanter showed that he had elite level rebounding, a good outside shot for a Center, is a physical specimen, and that was all before getting ZERO professional coaching and camps. This year it's already showing. And this is year 2. One thing I dont think he gets enough credit for, is how great he is at getting this huge body in the way of guys in the paint trying to go up, or just stepping in front of someone driving. He gets called for it some, but plenty of that you can attribute to him not going to get many calls yet. But if you look at it, his arms straight up, just get in the way to alter shots, its actually really really good. He just doesn't make silly fouls like so many young guys do; I mean seriously, he NEVER makes silly fouls, compared to so many young guys. Thats huge IMO.

I mean, lets look at it. It's still only December, but did we see this much success from Favors last year? Most were saying Favors should start this season, in year 3 for him. Kanter though already has shown more skills than Favors had at this point......by the end of this season, are most going to say KANTER should be the starting big next year??? I dont know. But I do know I have loved this pick from the beginning, and this kid is showing big time improvement already, and this after only one actual year of coaching.

Favors and Kanter, with their skill sets, are going to be the perfect pairing, and it's why KOC was the smart one making that draft pick, over guys like JV. Great, great pick.

Mutangclan wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

You go ahead and stick to your "Expert" guns, that Hayward and Kanter were terrible picks and will be off the Jazz, or in Kanters case out of the league entirely. And I'll stick to my guns that both of them will show they were great picks, and be very good players for the Jazz.

That was asinine in the first place, but even more so now that we have seen the progress the Big Turkey is making.

Hah, of course it was. I could see the talent in there, I imagine others could too. Lol, but there was only one person calling himself the Objective Expert

When has KOC ever let us down with a number 3 pick? Never, all 2 of them. As an unabashed Kanter fan I will go on record right here and predict that Kanter is going to be a more complete baller than Favors. There is no reason Kanter can't learn better D tactics - Favors has a 1 year head start (only counting pro ball) - and Kanter clearly has every bit the paint moves not to mention an outside shot. If anyone doesn't live up to the third pick it is gonna be Favors, though I think he clearly is going to be a good player in the league for a long time.

Hey, I'm right there with you MT, you know I've been calling him a stud since Euro ball after he was drafted. I went on and on about the skills he was showing, and got alot of folk saying they weren't ready yet to get on the UnderKanter train. But, I've liked him since the beginning, regardless of naysayers!

Kanter showed that he had elite level rebounding, a good outside shot for a Center, is a physical specimen, and that was all before getting ZERO professional coaching and camps. This year it's already showing. And this is year 2. One thing I dont think he gets enough credit for, is how great he is at getting this huge body in the way of guys in the paint trying to go up, or just stepping in front of someone driving. He gets called for it some, but plenty of that you can attribute to him not going to get many calls yet. But if you look at it, his arms straight up, just get in the way to alter shots, its actually really really good. He just doesn't make silly fouls like so many young guys do; I mean seriously, he NEVER makes silly fouls, compared to so many young guys. Thats huge IMO.

I mean, lets look at it. It's still only December, but did we see this much success from Favors last year? Most were saying Favors should start this season, in year 3 for him. Kanter though already has shown more skills than Favors had at this point......by the end of this season, are most going to say KANTER should be the starting big next year??? I dont know. But I do know I have loved this pick from the beginning, and this kid is showing big time improvement already, and this after only one actual year of coaching.

Favors and Kanter, with their skill sets, are going to be the perfect pairing, and it's why KOC was the smart one making that draft pick, over guys like JV. Great, great pick.

I had honesty never heard of Kanter until the few days leading up to the draft, when people were talking about the Jazz drafting him. Even then I couldn't find to much video on him, so I wasn't sure, but I trusted KOC knew what he was doing, and knew there was NO chance he was going to be out of the league in a couple of years.

"Under Kanter" I cannot slog through this deviant thread without, well, envisioning the deviance.

Kanter is good. Can we not pervert anything?

Professo_Sloan wrote:

"Under Kanter" I cannot slog through this deviant thread without, well, envisioning the deviance.

Kanter is good. Can we not pervert anything?

Then dont slog through it.
And yes, indeed. Can we not?

[/quote] I had honesty never heard of Kanter until the few days leading up to the draft, when people were talking about the Jazz drafting him. Even then I couldn't find to much video on him, so I wasn't sure, but I trusted KOC knew what he was doing, and knew there was NO chance he was going to be out of the league in a couple of years. [/quote]

I was the same way did not really know anything about him other than what I could read when searching him on the computer and I was not really sold on him as the Jazz 3rd pick in the draft but now after seeing everything he has done so far I am liking what I see from the Kid and if he keeps working as hard as he has so far he is going to be a very good player in this league no doubt about it.

I think he has shown enough growth with his game to make any Jazz fan happy he is on the team, even if you don't like the Kid you have to give him credit for how far he has come with his game and his body he is a legit NBA player no doubt about it.