UnderKanter

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Kanter's Preseason numbers....

Per game:
20.6 Min, 12 pts, 9 reb, .9 ast, .7 stl, .7 blk, 1.1 TO, 57% FG, 74% FT

Kanter has made an indisputable case that he deserves more playing time. If Corbin can't find him 20 minutes a game durring the regular season it will be a travesty.

I'm not arguing that Kanter should get PT, but at who's expense? Most people say that Favors needs close to 30. Al & Sap aren't going to go under 30MPG.

Even if rounded down:
96 minutes to be shared; Al 32 + Paul 32 + Derrick 25 = 89. That only leaves 7 minutes. If Paul plays a few minutes at SF (taking away time from Gordon, Marvin, DeMarre, etc) and then he might be able to get to 12-15MPG.

If Kanter & Favors both show they can both be 25MPG players, then I really don't see any way the Jazz will keep Jefferson & Millsap.

It's gonna be a dilemma for Corbin! That's why I think they play him where they can and if he continues to produce well in limited minutes, there will be a trade before the deadline. If they feel he needs some more development before playing high minutes, they will let the season play out and let Al or Milsap walk. KOC has shown that he doesn't like letting players go for nothing though. I kinda expect to see a move later in the season.

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Kanter's Preseason numbers....

Per game:
20.6 Min, 12 pts, 9 reb, .9 ast, .7 stl, .7 blk, 1.1 TO, 57% FG, 74% FT

Kanter has made an indisputable case that he deserves more playing time. If Corbin can't find him 20 minutes a game durring the regular season it will be a travesty.

I'm not arguing that Kanter should get PT, but at who's expense? Most people say that Favors needs close to 30. Al & Sap aren't going to go under 30MPG.

Even if rounded down:
96 minutes to be shared; Al 32 + Paul 32 + Derrick 25 = 89. That only leaves 7 minutes. If Paul plays a few minutes at SF (taking away time from Gordon, Marvin, DeMarre, etc) and then he might be able to get to 12-15MPG.

If Kanter & Favors both show they can both be 25MPG players, then I really don't see any way the Jazz will keep Jefferson & Millsap.

After the season maybe, but unless things go badly or a sweetheart deal comes up I think it's most likely the Jazz finish the season with all 4 of them.

Given the way everyone is playing I'd say you take a little from everybody.

Demarre is great and all but I think the Jazz have to push up, buck the NBA trends, and go big. There are 5 guys that should be playing 30+ minutes a game, and they are the current starting 5. After that Favors should be getting 25+ and Burks and Kanter 20+. Those are the Jazz core players, and they should be the focus of all of the rotations.

How do you make that happen? Like I said, go big. Play Millsap 10+ minutes a game at SF, make Hayward almost exclusively a SG, give Burks time at PG.

Rotation:

PG: Williams (34), Tinsley/Foye [8], Burks (6)
SG: Hayward (30), Burks (18)
SF: Williams (30), Millsap (12), Carroll (6)
PF: Favors (28), Millsap (18), Kanter (2)
C: Jefferson (30), Kanter (18)

It's not that hard, and I think the Jazz would be much better for it, but it takes a little creativity and a little patience. Creativity and patience that I actually don't think Corbin has, so it probably won't happen.

I think Millsap should start, but I think Corbin needs to go to the bench earlier, get Favors in the game before the 6 minute mark, and don't just send him in for Millsap, send him in where he can make the biggest difference, which sometimes might be for Al, and sometimes might be for Marvin.

again, probably not going to happen.

TheMagnus wrote:

Kanter's Preseason numbers....

Per game:
20.6 Min, 12 pts, 9 reb, .9 ast, .7 stl, .7 blk, 1.1 TO, 57% FG, 74% FT

Kanter has made an indisputable case that he deserves more playing time. If Corbin can't find him 20 minutes a game durring the regular season it will be a travesty.

You know, you are absolutely right. Kanter is flat out looking pretty damn good, way above average at this point. Its not a stretch to say he has outplayed Favors significantly. Try that on for size for a minute. It just doesn't seem right, does it? But he is. Let us all remember the day some of us seriously underestimated the kid's upside, assigning him maybe 7-10 minutes in rotations before we even had the pre-season. Good motor. Sick rebounder. TO's good, FG awesome, Excellent physical condition. The only thing he isn't is "athletic", which I think is an over-used term. His hops and foot speed is way better than last year, he is not a plodding guy anymore.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

He's going to get 8 and 8 averages, which is pretty great for 18mins per. Blocks and assists probably equal at 1.

Not going to happen. You dreaming again.

Your crazy if you still think this kid cant do it. I gave you time to see and you just want to bury you head in the sand and act like this aint happening! I'd be surpised if he's not getting at least 20 plus minutes before end of the year. Love #s when this kid gets starter time. Easy! I'm not saying your boy JV is not gonna be good bucause i think he will, We all know he'll get more time with the raps just because they have no one to fight with to earn time. which will make Kanter that much better when the dust settles.

Enes has allstar all over him in a couple years.

Richardale wrote:

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

He's going to get 8 and 8 averages, which is pretty great for 18mins per. Blocks and assists probably equal at 1.

Not going to happen. You dreaming again.

Your crazy if you still think this kid cant do it. I gave you time to see and you just want to bury you head in the sand and act like this aint happening! I'd be surpised if he's not getting at least 20 plus minutes before end of the year. Love #s when this kid gets starter time. Easy! I'm not saying your boy JV is not gonna be good bucause i think he will, We all know he'll get more time with the raps just because they have no one to fight with to earn time. which will make Kanter that much better when the dust settles.

Enes has allstar all over him in a couple years.

I've seen more than enough to see that Kanter is gonna be a very very good player once the minutes are there. If CJ was a real Jazz fan, he would be ecstatic to see the player Kanter is turning into, not still pissy, because the Jazz didn't take the guy he wanted.

I mean follow the guy all you want, but he doesn't play for the Jazz and never will. So why keep trying to beat people over the head with what a mistake it was to take Kanter instead. That's obviously not the case anyway.

From David Locke after the Portland game...

David Locke wrote:

• The pre-season of Kanter ends with an insane flurry. 21 points and 12 rebounds, hitting two outside shots, adding a huge block. Most importantly, it was against Portland playing their top tier guys. The Blazers played this to win and had Adlridge and Hickson getting a majority of the minutes against Kanter. Kanter was terrific.

• The #1 story of the pre-season is the evolution of Kanter. Both on and off the floor he has become a confident force. He is developing at a rate that is hard to impossible to have envisioned. His body, mind, confidence, you name it is different.

http://weareutahjazz.com/lockedonjazz/2012/10/25/emptying-the-noggin-jazz-wrap-pre-season-with-win-over-blazers/

I saw very little bit of the pre-season action, but all the games are over and our boy Kanter finished on top of the league for the tendex per 48 mins. Kanter's score is very impressive no matter who he did it against. Note: A player had to play 20 mins per game or more to qualify in the rankings.

http://www.dougstats.com/12-13Tendex.html

Crunchtime1 wrote:

I saw very little bit of the pre-season action, but all the games are over and our boy Kanter finished on top of the league for the tendex per 48 mins. Kanter's score is very impressive no matter who he did it against. Note: A player had to play 20 mins per game or more to qualify in the rankings.

http://www.dougstats.com/12-13Tendex.html

Couple years and he keeps pushing himself this kid will be a allstar. Not ever going to be the defender favors will. I see him as a Dirk shooting Love on the boards. I'm really high on what i think this kid can do! I heard he can shoot the three with no prob and will soon become part of his game.

Richardale wrote:

Crunchtime1 wrote:

I saw very little bit of the pre-season action, but all the games are over and our boy Kanter finished on top of the league for the tendex per 48 mins. Kanter's score is very impressive no matter who he did it against. Note: A player had to play 20 mins per game or more to qualify in the rankings.

http://www.dougstats.com/12-13Tendex.html

Couple years and he keeps pushing himself this kid will be a allstar. Not ever going to be the defender favors will. I see him as a Dirk shooting Love on the boards. I'm really high on what i think this kid can do! I heard he can shoot the three with no prob and will soon become part of his game.

Was that sarcasm? I think I agree, although I have no idea what "a Dirk shooting Love on the boards" means. Kanter's game will only get better. Is Kanter becoming a 3-pt threat even a remote possibility? Are we dealing with a Memo-like Center here?

Kanter's not Memo at all. Dude's a banger with an advanced feel for the game that Memo only got near the end of his career. Shooting mechanics are high and quick and he's already on his way to become a nice pick and pop mid range threat. Long range will come in due time if he focus a little bit on it, but I'd prefer Kanter to stay in the paint as much as possible exhausting the other team's bigs.

outerspacefan wrote:

Kanter's not Memo at all. Dude's a banger with an advanced feel for the game that Memo only got near the end of his career. Shooting mechanics are high and quick and he's already on his way to become a nice pick and pop mid range threat. Long range will come in due time if he focus a little bit on it, but I'd prefer Kanter to stay in the paint as much as possible exhausting the other team's bigs.

Who would have ever have thought we'd be saying things like Kanter has "an advanced feel for the game" in his second year? He definitely has an instinct for rebounding that is beyond is years; do you really think his overall game feel is advanced? What a bonus if the kid is also a quick study!

MTJazz wrote:

outerspacefan wrote:

Kanter's not Memo at all. Dude's a banger with an advanced feel for the game that Memo only got near the end of his career. Shooting mechanics are high and quick and he's already on his way to become a nice pick and pop mid range threat. Long range will come in due time if he focus a little bit on it, but I'd prefer Kanter to stay in the paint as much as possible exhausting the other team's bigs.

Who would have ever have thought we'd be saying things like Kanter has "an advanced feel for the game" in his second year? He definitely has an instinct for rebounding that is beyond is years; do you really think his overall game feel is advanced? What a bonus if the kid is also a quick study!

After watching Kanter get out to a slow start in summer league play I never would have guessed that he would be at this level with his game in his second season, the Kid is really turning heads no doubt about it.

A few days old, but some more positive coverage for Kanter and Favors below in the Trib and DNews.

SL Trib: Jazz’s Enes Kanter: Raw power, pure fun

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/55037912-87/kanter-jazz-player-center.html.csp

Desert News: Utah Jazz: Favors, Kanter give fans a glimpse into future in win over Portland

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765613814/Utah-Jazz-Favors-Kanter-give-fans-a-glimpse-into-future-in-win-over-Portland.html

Richardale wrote:

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

He's going to get 8 and 8 averages, which is pretty great for 18mins per. Blocks and assists probably equal at 1.

Not going to happen. You dreaming again.

Your crazy if you still think this kid cant do it. I gave you time to see and you just want to bury you head in the sand and act like this aint happening! I'd be surpised if he's not getting at least 20 plus minutes before end of the year. Love #s when this kid gets starter time. Easy!
Enes has allstar all over him in a couple years.

Maybe I am crazy, but I know not to take preseason seriously. So what happened to you "all star" when real games started - 15 min a game...bellow .500 FG, no assists, 2.33TO, 4.2reb, 2.33pts almost 4 fouls a game and looking absolutely clueless and lost. That's why he needed real game experience and play for Turkey more then any kind of workouts.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Richardale wrote:

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

He's going to get 8 and 8 averages, which is pretty great for 18mins per. Blocks and assists probably equal at 1.

Not going to happen. You dreaming again.

Your crazy if you still think this kid cant do it. I gave you time to see and you just want to bury you head in the sand and act like this aint happening! I'd be surpised if he's not getting at least 20 plus minutes before end of the year. Love #s when this kid gets starter time. Easy!
Enes has allstar all over him in a couple years.

Maybe I am crazy, but I know not to take preseason seriously. So what happened to you "all star" when real games started - 15 min a game...bellow .500 FG, no assists, 2.33TO, 4.2reb, 2.33pts almost 4 fouls a game and looking absolutely clueless and lost. That's why he needed real game experience and play for Turkey more then any kind of workouts.

Using your approach - JV played just tiny bit not just as bad... And there is not so much tolerance for Euro rookie slumps in regular NBA coach.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Richardale wrote:

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

He's going to get 8 and 8 averages, which is pretty great for 18mins per. Blocks and assists probably equal at 1.

Not going to happen. You dreaming again.

Your crazy if you still think this kid cant do it. I gave you time to see and you just want to bury you head in the sand and act like this aint happening! I'd be surpised if he's not getting at least 20 plus minutes before end of the year. Love #s when this kid gets starter time. Easy!
Enes has allstar all over him in a couple years.

Maybe I am crazy, but I know not to take preseason seriously. So what happened to you "all star" when real games started - 15 min a game...bellow .500 FG, no assists, 2.33TO, 4.2reb, 2.33pts almost 4 fouls a game and looking absolutely clueless and lost. That's why he needed real game experience and play for Turkey more then any kind of workouts.

You draft a first round quarter back and he throws couple picks you dont give up on the kid. I'm not gonna ask how your boy JV played or if they won because its not fair with those young guys. will take time for both to play up to what we think they can.

How about this for a crazy idea...send kanter to the d-league.

I mean I may completely disagree with calg on the value of international play, especially if that play is for turkey, but we all agree that he needs more on court experience. It's also pretty clear that the jazz need to give more minutes to favors, not to mention the fact that they have evans just rotting on the bench. So why not send kanter to the d-league for a month or two or until someone gets hurt?

TheMagnus wrote:

How about this for a crazy idea...send kanter to the d-league.

I mean I may completely disagree with calg on the value of international play, especially if that play is for turkey, but we all agree that he needs more on court experience. It's also pretty clear that the jazz need to give more minutes to favors, not to mention the fact that they have evans just rotting on the bench. So why not send kanter to the d-league for a month or two or until someone gets hurt?

Ummm....no. Last night against OKC clearly demonstrated why Kanter needs more minutes on the floor. PER he is one of the most effective players on the team but Corbin has not seen fit to play him more than 7-10 minutes every night until last. Dude was confidently hitting jumpers, 7 OFFENSIVE rebounds, playing decent D. Its a wait and see thing but if I'm KOC Sap or Jefferson is gone by Feb - the future is now!

MTJazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

How about this for a crazy idea...send kanter to the d-league.

I mean I may completely disagree with calg on the value of international play, especially if that play is for turkey, but we all agree that he needs more on court experience. It's also pretty clear that the jazz need to give more minutes to favors, not to mention the fact that they have evans just rotting on the bench. So why not send kanter to the d-league for a month or two or until someone gets hurt?

Ummm....no. Last night against OKC clearly demonstrated why Kanter needs more minutes on the floor. PER he is one of the most effective players on the team but Corbin has not seen fit to play him more than 7-10 minutes every night until last. Dude was confidently hitting jumpers, 7 OFFENSIVE rebounds, playing decent D. Its a wait and see thing but if I'm KOC Sap or Jefferson is gone by Feb - the future is now!

I'm as excited about Kanter's recent success as anybody, and absolutely agree that he needs more minutes, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. These last few games have just pulled him up to below average in terms of his overall production on the season, he's still a long long way away from being the most effective player on the team by any measure.

He should get some more minutes now with Favors being out, I'm excited to see how he does with those minutes.

As we get closer to the trade deadline I think we will get a feel for where the Jazz are this year. If they are still a .500 ball club then I definitely thing the Jazz will be aggressive in making some moves and pretty much everybody but Favors will be on the table, but if they get it together and look like a 50ish win team that won't embarrass itself in the playoffs (again) then I think there will be a lot less urgency to make a move.

Well, it's starting to look like whoever it was who said Kanter might be the least-coached[b] player to enter the NBA in some time* was absolutely right, and to correct that, he needs minutes on the floor!

Look at the nature of his improvement (when he's shown it):

1) A little confidence in his jumper! And why not? It's a perfectly smooth stroke, except when he's not sure he should be taking it at all. A few take-and-makes IN GAMES, not practice, seem to have helped a lot.

2) Awareness of flopping! Kanter seems to expect people to resist his brutal offensive bumps and only game situations (and reffing) will teach him which guys will bump back and which will go flying (flop rules be damned! Plus, he really bumps hard sometimes!). Hard to teach that flop anticipation stuff in practice.

3) A lot less panic when he receives a pass down low! He doesn't automatically start an immediate back-down move when he gets the ball. Less time pressure when he realizes it IS possible to kick it back out.

These improvements don't show every single game, every single possession of course, and I haven't seem as much of that high-energy sellout defense he showed sometimes last year, but his development is FAR from the most disappointing thing I've seen from the Jazz this year.

*-Oh, I just checked, and it was me who said that.

Well hello boys and girls, seems a good time to add a few words. I may have been able to catch that Toronto game last night, and got to see Kanters first start ever; and it just so happened to be against JV. Due to JV being completely ineffective in the first 3 quarters, getting out played and into foul trouble and having to sit ,we didn't get to see that much of Kanter v JV.

But the 4th did show it, and JV obviously couldn't do much of anything. He couldn't even keep up with Kanter on that break away layup. No rebounding, no nothing from JV, and his only competition was Kanter. Who dominated the matchup. JV couldn't even be effective against little ole Enes, Calgary! haha.

But look at the bottom line: In Kanters very first start ever, he goes for a good 18 and 8 on 7 of 16 shooting, 4 of 5 FTs and ONLY ONE TURNOVER and 3 fouls. +/- +15 too. In his first start EVER.

What did JV do??? I can tell you, COMPLETELY INEFFECTIVE. And this is what, like his 20th start??? And all he had to do was go up against measly little OVERRATED Kanter??? Oh, right, his line: 6, 5, 4 and 2. That'd be 6pts, 5 fouls, 4 rebs and 2 turnovers. -24 +/-........ can you say completely ineffective?????

So whats it going to be Calgary??? Which excuses will you use today?? They didn't matchup that much? They dont pass to him??? Yea, I"m sure they'll come.

BOTTOM LINE: Kanter? EFFECTIVE AND HELPED HIS TEAM WIN.
BOTTOM LINE: JV? INEFFECTIVE AND COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT IN THE GAME.

Mutangclan wrote:

Well hello boys and girls, seems a good time to add a few words. I may have been able to catch that Toronto game last night, and got to see Kanters first start ever; and it just so happened to be against JV. Due to JV being completely ineffective in the first 3 quarters, getting out played and into foul trouble and having to sit ,we didn't get to see that much of Kanter v JV.

But the 4th did show it, and JV obviously couldn't do much of anything. He couldn't even keep up with Kanter on that break away layup. No rebounding, no nothing from JV, and his only competition was Kanter. Who dominated the matchup. JV couldn't even be effective against little ole Enes, Calgary! haha.

But look at the bottom line: In Kanters very first start ever, he goes for a good 18 and 8 on 7 of 16 shooting, 4 of 5 FTs and ONLY ONE TURNOVER and 3 fouls. +/- +15 too. In his first start EVER.

What did JV do??? I can tell you, COMPLETELY INEFFECTIVE. And this is what, like his 20th start??? And all he had to do was go up against measly little OVERRATED Kanter??? Oh, right, his line: 6, 5, 4 and 2. That'd be 6pts, 5 fouls, 4 rebs and 2 turnovers. -24 +/-........ can you say completely ineffective?????

So whats it going to be Calgary??? Which excuses will you use today?? They didn't matchup that much? They dont pass to him??? Yea, I"m sure they'll come.

BOTTOM LINE: Kanter? EFFECTIVE AND HELPED HIS TEAM WIN.
BOTTOM LINE: JV? INEFFECTIVE AND COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT IN THE GAME.

I really wish I would have rememberd to set my dvr up to record it

Mutangclan wrote:

What did JV do??? I can tell you, COMPLETELY INEFFECTIVE. And this is what, like his 20th start??? And all he had to do was go up against measly little OVERRATED Kanter??? Oh, right, his line: 6, 5, 4 and 2. That'd be 6pts, 5 fouls, 4 rebs and 2 turnovers. -24 +/-........ can you say completely ineffective?????

So whats it going to be Calgary??? Which excuses will you use today?? They didn't matchup that much? They dont pass to him??? Yea, I"m sure they'll come.

BOTTOM LINE: Kanter? EFFECTIVE AND HELPED HIS TEAM WIN.
BOTTOM LINE: JV? INEFFECTIVE AND COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT IN THE GAME.

How predictable that you would show up and start gloating after Kanter had arguably best game of the season ( despite less then .500FG and 5 BA). Where were you after game in Toronto or throughout numerous games Kanter sucked?
Why you do not pay attention that Kanter was equally ineffective playing while matched vs JV. He scored 2 pts vs JV while missing 3 shots, rest of his points came vs other players.
Even if Kanter won this battle it is JV who is leading in the war. One significant advantage Kanter has for now is he already has NBA body while JV is still filing up. After 2-3 years it will be no contest.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

BOTTOM LINE: Kanter? EFFECTIVE AND HELPED HIS TEAM WIN.
BOTTOM LINE: JV? INEFFECTIVE AND COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT IN THE GAME.

How predictable that you would show up and start gloating after Kanter had arguably best game of the season ( despite less then .500FG and 5 BA). Where were you after game in Toronto or throughout numerous games Kanter sucked?
Why you do not pay attention that Kanter was equally ineffective playing while matched vs JV. He scored 2 pts vs JV while missing 3 shots, rest of his points came vs other players.
Even if Kanter won this battle it is JV who is leading in the war. One significant advantage Kanter has for now is he already has NBA body while JV is still filing up. After 2-3 years it will be no contest.

Oh Calgary, you are so pathetic..... hahahaha, and bitter.
And absolutely, I can find a minute to jump on here after they finally face each other, it a real reason to debate!

Because two all star caliber bigs play in front of Kanter, how many starts has he had? None. That was his first. And also the first time he has faced JV. So it's finally a good debate.

And JV was ineffective, unable to do anything against Kanter or anyone else. Enes on the other hand dropped 18 and 8. He's off to the D league soon, right??? Off the Jazz soon!!!
But hey, why would I expect you to look at it without your Rosy JV glasses??!! I dont, never any props to Kanter.
Enjoy watching your bf JV while he looses his starting spot there soon.