interesting thought about josh howard

If you were Tyrone Corbin, and the Jazz, would you invite him to camp, to battle for a roster spot? I didnt think he was good last year or anything, but he should at least get an invite somewhere.

therawns wrote:

If you were Tyrone Corbin, and the Jazz, would you invite him to camp, to battle for a roster spot? I didnt think he was good last year or anything, but he should at least get an invite somewhere.

Na, I'd rather see them focus on young talent, particularly PG and a bigs. I think they should be looking to the future with the training camp invites, they've got plenty of veterans and solid backups like Carroll and Evans for this year, I don't see a good spot for Howard. Besides, I think he is looking for a place he can contribute not just any roster spot, and I think he will find it.

Don't forget, the only player the Jazz have on contract for sure next season is Jeremy Evans. The big 4 young guys have team options, and Marvin has a player option, everybody else will be an unrestricted free agent.

I hated J.Howard signing last year - eventually for the amount of money it did not look that bad, but he was mainly useless ball hog sticking out of Jazz structured offense like white crow in the flock of black ones. No, no and one more time no.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

I hated J.Howard signing last year - eventually for the amount of money it did not look that bad, but he was mainly useless ball hog sticking out of Jazz structured offense like white crow in the flock of black ones. No, no and one more time no.

I think that signing last year is similar to the Foye signing last year. I think it is interesting and awesome that the Jazz have been able to get quality veterans to come and play for very reasonable money on 1 year deals.

TheMagnus wrote:

Calgary Jazz wrote:

I hated J.Howard signing last year - eventually for the amount of money it did not look that bad, but he was mainly useless ball hog sticking out of Jazz structured offense like white crow in the flock of black ones. No, no and one more time no.

I think that signing last year is similar to the Foye signing last year. I think it is interesting and awesome that the Jazz have been able to get quality veterans to come and play for very reasonable money on 1 year deals.

I also thought that Howard was a nice sign last season but his history of being injured did not change, at time's he played well for the Jazz before his injure's later in the season. With that said I don't think there is room for him on this team they need to go with the Young up and coming player's and let him find a team where he has a chance of playing a role of some sort's.

If there is a move to be made I would like to see the Jazz find a big that can grow with the team only having 4 true big's there will be hard pressed if an injure happen's would like to see them get a little deeper at the C/PF positions.

I think the Foye signing is going to turnout to be a very good move for the Jazz he has IMO made big improvements in the last few season and just needs a team like the Jazz who can best utilize the thing's he bring's to the court. The Jazz has a history of getting player's to play at their best and that's what they are going to get from Foye, coming to the Jazz could turnout to be the best thing that has happened to him so far in his basketball career.

dongibby wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Calgary Jazz wrote:

I hated J.Howard signing last year - eventually for the amount of money it did not look that bad, but he was mainly useless ball hog sticking out of Jazz structured offense like white crow in the flock of black ones. No, no and one more time no.

I think that signing last year is similar to the Foye signing last year. I think it is interesting and awesome that the Jazz have been able to get quality veterans to come and play for very reasonable money on 1 year deals.

I also thought that Howard was a nice sign last season but his history of being injured did not change, at time's he played well for the Jazz before his injure's later in the season. With that said I don't think there is room for him on this team they need to go with the Young up and coming player's and let him find a team where he has a chance of playing a role of some sort's.

If there is a move to be made I would like to see the Jazz find a big that can grow with the team only having 4 true big's there will be hard pressed if an injure happen's would like to see them get a little deeper at the C/PF positions.

I think the Foye signing is going to turnout to be a very good move for the Jazz he has IMO made big improvements in the last few season and just needs a team like the Jazz who can best utilize the thing's he bring's to the court. The Jazz has a history of getting player's to play at their best and that's what they are going to get from Foye, coming to the Jazz could turnout to be the best thing that has happened to him so far in his basketball career.

I agree with you on both counts. I liked the howard signing last year and the foye signing this year even more. I think Howard played very well for having two knee surgeries, but he was too inconsistent and had lost a step so he often struggled guarding small forwards who were athletic. He did do some nice things and I'm sure he had some good advice for the young players especially going into the playoffs seeing as how he and raja were the only ones with multiple playoff appearances and raja was being a baby. But that said I don't think bringing him back is a good idea, his inconsistent play would just take minutes away from guys that will get better with those minutes, and Howards improving days are over.
On to the foye signing, I think we got a steal for the price we got him for. He is a player who is boarderline staring caliber and will make a very very solid 7th or 8th man. He brings a lot of qualities to the table that I like for a 2 guard. He can handle the ball well and pass, he can hit the 3 consistenly. He is an athletic, talented guy who is a capable defender and is a solid team player who can get hot and is capable of taking over games. I think he will be a key guy to how high our seed is in the playoffs. I am really excited for the season and can't wait until it starts, our team hasn't been this deep maybe ever and it will be awesome to watch quality players be on the court all game, every game and not have to deal with the depression of seeing cj miles or players alike walking upto the scorers table to check into the game, I don't think I will be upset at all when I see any of our player getting into the game

Zoonie wrote:

I am really excited for the season and can't wait until it starts, our team hasn't been this deep maybe ever and it will be awesome to watch quality players be on the court all game, every game and not have to deal with the depression of seeing cj miles or players alike walking upto the scorers table to check into the game, I don't think I will be upset at all when I see any of our player getting into the game

Yea, good point. Interesting thought on that. Last year went Howard and his actual ball-hogging way checked in, or Turnover Miles checked in, I just hated it. Now, I love DC, love his hustle and heart, and he's going to be like the 11th man it looks like, coming off the bench. And I'll like it!! That right there is a deep deep team.

Zoonie wrote:

dongibby wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

I think that signing last year is similar to the Foye signing last year. I think it is interesting and awesome that the Jazz have been able to get quality veterans to come and play for very reasonable money on 1 year deals.

I think the Foye signing is going to turnout to be a very good move for the Jazz he has IMO made big improvements in the last few season and just needs a team like the Jazz who can best utilize the thing's he bring's to the court. The Jazz has a history of getting player's to play at their best and that's what they are going to get from Foye, coming to the Jazz could turnout to be the best thing that has happened to him so far in his basketball career.

On to the foye signing, I think we got a steal for the price we got him for. He is a player who is boarderline staring caliber and will make a very very solid 7th or 8th man. He brings a lot of qualities to the table that I like for a 2 guard. He can handle the ball well and pass, he can hit the 3 consistenly. He is an athletic, talented guy who is a capable defender and is a solid team player who can get hot and is capable of taking over games. I think he will be a key guy to how high our seed is in the playoffs.

You guys both touched on the thing that I think is so awesome. I mean, the general consensus is that we really got both of those guys for at or below market value, without any long term commitment. Normally veterans won't do that unless they are completely washed up. And while you could make an argument that Howard was a bit of an unknown, there were good indications that he could still play, and that is definitely not the case with Foye, he's a young guy that has alot of good ball in front of him.

So why are these guys, or perhaps more importantly, these guys agents, willing to do these kind of deals?

I think it has everything to do with the Jazz reputation around the league, and these guys are looking to the Jazz to improve their own reputation. The Jazz are a perennially competitive team that doesn't take crap from players and uses a well defined system. If they can prove that they can be rotation players here, then their value skyrockets around the league.

Good post mag. I totally agree with you, guys will get better at playing team basketball in a set system coming to Utah which will give them more value with future signings

Zoonie wrote:

Good post mag. I totally agree with you, guys will get better at playing team basketball in a set system coming to Utah which will give them more value with future signings

Applies to Marv more than anyone. I think KOC recognized this, as did Marv and his agent. I think he becomes a solid starter this year---dependable. Which would be a first for him. Quite possibly he finally "justifies" his draft pick. No star, but good pick.

Mutangclan wrote:

Zoonie wrote:

Good post mag. I totally agree with you, guys will get better at playing team basketball in a set system coming to Utah which will give them more value with future signings

Applies to Marv more than anyone. I think KOC recognized this, as did Marv and his agent. I think he becomes a solid starter this year---dependable. Which would be a first for him. Quite possibly he finally "justifies" his draft pick. No star, but good pick.

I agree with the fact that it applies to marv more than anyone, but he still has the talent to be a star and if he gets it together he could become one, but by all means he will never be a good solo star because his skillset isn't a break you down 1 on 1 and make you look stupid, but I think he could become a good compliment star, only time will tell, but I think it's possible but it would take more than this year to show that he is moving toward becoming that star, but the guy does have a good IQ and makes good cuts and can execute plays and comes off screens well, I'm really happy this guy is getting his chance to play in a system that compliments his skill set, this trade could save his career and earn him millions of dollars more on his next contract than if he would have stayed with Atlanta

I think that Marvin Williams was forced into being a top pick, and then also expected to be a Michael Jordan, Olajuwon type draft pick. When now, I think he should shoot to be the best Scottie Pippen he can be. Take what the defense gives you, play man on, tenacious defense, and affect the game in other ways besides scoring. He could be a very good Pippen type complimentary player with some points, very good D, a 3ptr when open, some assists, some rebounds, some steals and a block. Actually, he and Gordo both, need to shoot to be that type of game changer/player, and its a recipe for success IMO.

Mutangclan wrote:

I think that Marvin Williams was forced into being a top pick, and then also expected to be a Michael Jordan, Olajuwon type draft pick. When now, I think he should shoot to be the best Scottie Pippen he can be. Take what the defense gives you, play man on, tenacious defense, and affect the game in other ways besides scoring. He could be a very good Pippen type complimentary player with some points, very good D, IMO.

Since when Marvin Williams and defense is in the same sentence? I was reading some Hawks forums after that trade and their fans were so happy to see him gone. He was called lazy, injury prone and poor defender. Granted, I did not see him play a lot but his defense was nothing special. Why do you guys think he is going to be defensive force on the Jazz? J.Howard at lest had "defensive player reputation" on his resume before coming to the Jazz.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

I think that Marvin Williams was forced into being a top pick, and then also expected to be a Michael Jordan, Olajuwon type draft pick. When now, I think he should shoot to be the best Scottie Pippen he can be. Take what the defense gives you, play man on, tenacious defense, and affect the game in other ways besides scoring. He could be a very good Pippen type complimentary player with some points, very good D, IMO.

Since when Marvin Williams and defense is in the same sentence? I was reading some Hawks forums after that trade and their fans were so happy to see him gone. He was called lazy, injury prone and poor defender. Granted, I did not see him play a lot but his defense was nothing special. Why do you guys think he is going to be force on the Jazz? J.Howard at lest had "defensive player reputation" on his resume before coming to the Jazz.

Well Josh Howard was in his 30's, has a bum knee, and wasn't nearly athletic enough to guard athletic SF's and he is 6'6 with shoes. Marvin Williams is 6'9 with shoes and has long arms, he is more athletic than Howard, and him being 6'9 and long with being athletic enough to guard mostly any SF in the league makes him a much better defender than his actual skill at defending the perimeter might suggest and plus if he starts playing in a system than compliments him and he feels important to the team and really wants to upgrade his status in the league, it might motivate him to try harder and hustle more on a daily basis, I wish we still had Jerry as our coach, I think it would benefit every player on the team more, because Jerry got guys to run his system better than Corbin ever will

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

I think that Marvin Williams was forced into being a top pick, and then also expected to be a Michael Jordan, Olajuwon type draft pick. When now, I think he should shoot to be the best Scottie Pippen he can be. Take what the defense gives you, play man on, tenacious defense, and affect the game in other ways besides scoring. He could be a very good Pippen type complimentary player with some points, very good D, IMO.

Since when Marvin Williams and defense is in the same sentence? I was reading some Hawks forums after that trade and their fans were so happy to see him gone. He was called lazy, injury prone and poor defender. Granted, I did not see him play a lot but his defense was nothing special. Why do you guys think he is going to be defensive force on the Jazz? J.Howard at lest had "defensive player reputation" on his resume before coming to the Jazz.

I don't remember Marv Williams ever being a great defender myself seem's he was just a guy that could hit shot's at a good % and he was not really doing good at that in the last few season. I am not sure what kind of player he is going to be for the Jazz but I am hoping that they can get the best out of him for both of their sake's.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

I think that Marvin Williams was forced into being a top pick, and then also expected to be a Michael Jordan, Olajuwon type draft pick. When now, I think he should shoot to be the best Scottie Pippen he can be. Take what the defense gives you, play man on, tenacious defense, and affect the game in other ways besides scoring. He could be a very good Pippen type complimentary player with some points, very good D, IMO.

Since when Marvin Williams and defense is in the same sentence? I was reading some Hawks forums after that trade and their fans were so happy to see him gone. He was called lazy, injury prone and poor defender. Granted, I did not see him play a lot but his defense was nothing special. Why do you guys think he is going to be defensive force on the Jazz? J.Howard at lest had "defensive player reputation" on his resume before coming to the Jazz.

Get off my nuts Calgary, this following me around like a lost puppy just looking for an argument stuff is getting old.

I did watch Hawks games with my ATL buddy who always spoke about Marvs defense. Do you even guess at the topic, or just immediately argue whatever I say??? Here, how about this:

Read towards the bottom, all the defensive ratings
http://www.nbapostup.com/marvin-williams-scouting-report-2009

Read ATL fans:
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1196985&start=15

This article is even about him being a bust and still says he's a good defender:
http://thefrontofficenews.com/2012/04/11/lets-just-say-it-marvin-williams-is-a-bust/

And lastly, this one that refers to him as a fairly great defender:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1245899-nba-free-agents-2012-can-marvin-williams-resurrect-his-career-with-utah-jazz

Good enough Calgary?

Well, he may be better defender then I though, thanks for those links. I guess it won't matter until he starts playing for the Jazz and we can see it and judge it on regular basis.
It is just I remember reading about him being lazy and that is opposite of good defender.

http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2012/02/22/williams-speaks-out-on-trade-rumor/

Here is comment from one of the Hawks fans.

"Marvin may be fat.
Marvin may not be able to take it to the hole.
Marvin may be lazy.
Marvin may be overpaid.
Marvin may be covered with tattoes.
Marvin may stink at everything but a Randy Whitmanesque jumper.

But he’s right. He does not complain. I’ll give him that".

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Well, he may be better defender then I though, thanks for those links. I guess it won't matter until he starts playing for the Jazz and we can see it and judge it on regular basis.
It is just I remember reading about him being lazy and that is opposite of good defender.

http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2012/02/22/williams-speaks-out-on-trade-rumor/

Here is comment from one of the Hawks fans.

"Marvin may be fat.
Marvin may not be able to take it to the hole.
Marvin may be lazy.
Marvin may be overpaid.
Marvin may be covered with tattoes.
Marvin may stink at everything but a Randy Whitmanesque jumper.

But he’s right. He does not complain. I’ll give him that".

Calgary, you're listening to opinions from guys on a blog??? You believe those guys as fact??? You can't do that.....I mean, even on this forum, there's some guys on here who say that Kanter was a horrible draft pick and wont even be in the league in 2 years.

Mutangclan wrote:

Calgary, you're listening to opinions from guys on a blog???

Some of your links are not very reputable either...Bleacherreport for example... those contributors are fans like us.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Calgary, you're listening to opinions from guys on a blog???

Some of your links are not very reputable either...Bleacherreport for example... those contributors are fans like us.

...but then there was the very first link which was a detailed statistics based scouting report...nah, lets focus on the one from bleacherreport and pretend like we offered a coherent rebuttal, that's a better plan.

Marvin was a bust, now he's just a slightly overpaid role player, and I think he's going to do very well for the Jazz this year, his perimeter D and ability to match up with bigger scoring SF's is going to be very usefull.

TheMagnus wrote:

Marvin was a bust, now he's just a slightly overpaid role player, and I think he's going to do very well for the Jazz this year, his perimeter D and ability to match up with bigger scoring SF's is going to be very usefull.

Lets hope so.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Calgary, you're listening to opinions from guys on a blog???

Some of your links are not very reputable either...Bleacherreport for example... those contributors are fans like us.

Right right right......Calgary keeps up his impeccable, predictable ways.....ignore the rest, try and find some little tidbit to detract.......