We should have a game thread during the games...

...don't ya think?

So, let me sum up what I think of the 2012/13 Jazz, after watching just the 3rd quarter vs. Dallas:

WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW!!!!!!!!!!!

This is exactly what we were hoping for, isn't it?? Size advantage, speed advantage, 2nd team advantage...too many good players for other teams to deal with!! And...3pt daggers, galore.

That was the most dominant stretch of ball I've seen in a very long time....

What did I leave out??

Oh, yeah, the defense looks ferocious too, from the perimeter on in.

Of course, Dallas might be one of the weaker interior teams we face in the West this year, but still, this game looks like the Jazz would win...about 10 out of 10 times. And they beat the Lakers!! Lol!

Man, this is a great, great start to the season. If that one ref didn't have it in for Favors, the Jazz would be up by 20+

BTW, the ESPN league power rankings have the Jazz at 10th, and they haven't done anything to hurt that tonight. http://espn.go.com/nba/powerrankings

I'm concerned by Burks only getting trash time play. If he is going to be one of our future foundations, he really needs to be getting on the court before Carroll and Tinsley (have Foye and Burks handle the ball)!

Let's remember that our opponents were on back to back games on the road. Other than those two points? Brilliant start that could have teams looking over their shoulders and how good we're the Williams', Marvin could be the real deal. If he can play like that all season I hope he opts in next year!

Stats shows that Favors and Kanter have very close and very good results... Honestly, it's about time for Calgary to do some repentance to atone his antiKanter campaign... but he is from the land of most tough and persistent people on the Earth, so I think it will take 5 -0 more such games.

vryadli wrote:

Stats shows that Favors and Kanter have very close and very good results... Honestly, it's about time for Calgary to do some repentance to atone his antiKanter campaign... but he is from the land of most tough and persistent people on the Earth, so I think it will take 5 -0 more such games.

More than that if JV plays well. Don't forget the "objective expert"s opinion of Kanter has little to nothing to do with Kanter. But don't try explaining that to the "Dr.", he'll just inundate us all with articles and stat lines from Toronto, and act like all his bitterness is totally normal for a reasonable Jazz fan, he's just being "objective", the rest of us are the crazy ones.

Tarakaan wrote:

I'm concerned by Burks only getting trash time play. If he is going to be one of our future foundations, he really needs to be getting on the court before Carroll and Tinsley (have Foye and Burks handle the ball)!

Let's remember that our opponents were on back to back games on the road. Other than those two points? Brilliant start that could have teams looking over their shoulders and how good we're the Williams', Marvin could be the real deal. If he can play like that all season I hope he opts in next year!

I was surprised to see no minutes for Burks as well, almost as surprised as I was to see Carroll getting some extended minutes in the first half. Foye played well, and Tinsley was sub-par, be interesting to see if he keeps playing at Burks expense, or if he starts taking Tinsleys minutes at backup PG.

vryadli wrote:

Stats shows that Favors and Kanter have very close and very good results... Honestly, it's about time for Calgary to do some repentance to atone his antiKanter campaign... but he is from the land of most tough and persistent people on the Earth, so I think it will take 5 -0 more such games.

Yes he did hate on Kanter, something that he probably regrets now after seeing how much work and improvement the Big Turkey made over the summer, but his biggest argument was that we should have taken Valanciunas instead. Valanciunas did drop a 12 pnt (6/15) 10 reb (6 offensive) 1 blk double double in his 23 minute debut.

Still hard to compare the two. Val is going to be force fed minutes, he gets to start and he's had a lot more playing experience. Kanter has had to earn everything he's got to this point playing behind two very good vets and Favors, make up for not having played much junior ball and also mature a hell of a lot as a person.

All in all, I'm happy with Kanter, I feel he will compliment Favors more than Val would. I just wish the Jazz could say they had a true 7 footer on their team, but them I'm old school!

TheMagnus wrote:

Tarakaan wrote:

I'm concerned by Burks only getting trash time play. If he is going to be one of our future foundations, he really needs to be getting on the court before Carroll and Tinsley (have Foye and Burks handle the ball)!

Let's remember that our opponents were on back to back games on the road. Other than those two points? Brilliant start that could have teams looking over their shoulders and how good we're the Williams', Marvin could be the real deal. If he can play like that all season I hope he opts in next year!

I was surprised to see no minutes for Burks as well, almost as surprised as I was to see Carroll getting some extended minutes in the first half. Foye played well, and Tinsley was sub-par, be interesting to see if he keeps playing at Burks expense, or if he starts taking Tinsleys minutes at backup PG.

I really hope that he does take Tinsley from the rotation. He's a great vet to have on the bench and in the locker room (now it seems anyway), a better coach to have work with Burks, and a great third/fallback point. But I just think Foye is a shooter and Burks who can flat out score, get to the rack and create, are both in desperate need of minutes, why settle for experienced mediocrity!

TheMagnus wrote:

More than that if JV plays well. Don't forget the "objective expert"s opinion of Kanter has little to nothing to do with Kanter. But don't try explaining that to the "Dr.", he'll just inundate us all with articles and stat lines from Toronto, and act like all his bitterness is totally normal for a reasonable Jazz fan, he's just being "objective", the rest of us are the crazy ones.

Actually, JV played even better. But that is not the pont of his crusade, he claimed that Kanter is not good enough for position 3 in rather weak draft. And I think Kanter already proved that he is. I was pretty sceptical myself - I think he was too heavy for his age and thought that it is because he doesn't train enough. As soon as I heard that he lost weight, I lost tree quarter of my scepticizm and now nothing left.

I'd put it that way: even if JV will be next Dunkan (hardly Sabonis... just not that type... Sabas was superb passer (may best ever passing center) and very decent 3p shooter), choosing of Kanter will be counted not as a loss, but just as a missed profit. Anyhow JV future is just side topic, though I'm mildly interested in.

[quote="Tarakaan"]

vryadli wrote:

. I just wish the Jazz could say they had a true 7 footer on their team, but them I'm old school!

May be it will pleased you: I just looked through player stats and - surpruse! - Al is listed as one of HEAVIEST players. And not that hi is fat. So if Jazz can't boast a true 7 footer, they are proud owners of true 289 pounder! That is decent margin over Dunkan, Garnet Gasols and so on.

vryadli wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

More than that if JV plays well. Don't forget the "objective expert"s opinion of Kanter has little to nothing to do with Kanter. But don't try explaining that to the "Dr.", he'll just inundate us all with articles and stat lines from Toronto, and act like all his bitterness is totally normal for a reasonable Jazz fan, he's just being "objective", the rest of us are the crazy ones.

Actually, JV played even better. But that is not the pont of his crusade, he claimed that Kanter is not good enough for position 3 in rather weak draft. And I think Kanter already proved that he is. I was pretty sceptical myself - I think he was too heavy for his age and thought that it is because he doesn't train enough. As soon as I heard that he lost weight, I lost tree quarter of my scepticizm and now nothing left.

I'd put it that way: even if JV will be next Dunkan (hardly Sabonis... just not that type... Sabas was superb passer (may best ever passing center) and very decent 3p shooter), choosing of Kanter will be counted not as a loss, but just as a missed profit. Anyhow JV future is just side topic, though I'm mildly interested in.

I don't think JV is a Duncan type, he doesn't have Duncan's jumper or footwork, definitely not a Sabonis...it's kind of hard to pin him down because there just haven't been a lot of super aggressive pick and roll 7 footers who also care about defense in the NBA, most of those types are Power Forwards. He's still pretty raw anyways, as he matures I'm sure he will draw more definitive comparisons.

Also, for all of his supposed height advantage on Kanter he's only got 1.5" more standing reach (9'1.5" vs 9'3")

Kanter is just a bull right now, but I actually see him developing into a taller, whiter, easier to love, better defensively, Carlos Boozer. Maybe Kevin Love is a closer comparison, but I don't think he will ever have Love's range or all-around feel for the game. I think Kanter will continue to develop his jumper and his post moves, he will keep rebounding like a monster, and he will be a position defender that doesn't get a lot of blocks or steals but is solid at getting position and making guys shoot over him. That's pretty much Carlos Boozer, only Kanter will actually try and play help D.

The fact that I compared him to two PF's isn't an accident either, I think that will probably end up being his natural position, just like C will end up being Favors natural position.

Tarakaan wrote:

Still hard to compare the two. Val is going to be force fed minutes, he gets to start and he's had a lot more playing experience. Kanter has had to earn everything he's got to this point playing behind two very good vets and Favors, make up for not having played much junior ball and also mature a hell of a lot as a person.

All in all, I'm happy with Kanter, I feel he will compliment Favors more than Val would. I just wish the Jazz could say they had a true 7 footer on their team, but them I'm old school!

Solid Solid points, I absolutely agree.

True 7 footers are overrated, and if it makes you feel any better Favors standing reach is only 1" shorter than JV's.

I'm gonna just come out and say it. Yeah the win was awesome, Marvin and Mo were great, but 2 min for Burks and 17 and 14 mins for Favors and Kanter is ludicrous. Corbin needs to pull his head out of his ass and figure out a better way to distribute the minutes. If you have to trade Milsap or Al to force Corbin to use the young weapons, then do it. He just flat out can not subscribe to the Sloan use of young guys. When Jerry did it he had two Legends to fall back on, Corbin doesn't. This Jazz team has so much potential, but Corbin will ruin it all if something doesn't change soon. Ok rant over, that was an awesome way to start the season. Marvin and Mo are going to kill it for us this year

vryadli wrote:

Stats shows that Favors and Kanter have very close and very good results... Honestly, it's about time for Calgary to do some repentance to atone his antiKanter campaign... but he is from the land of most tough and persistent people on the Earth, so I think it will take 5 -0 more such games.

It was not anti-Kanter campaign. It is more anti O'Connor draft choice campaign. I sincerely believe JV will be better player from those two from what I have seen to this point - and before draft it was not even close. Kanter is proving to me that he is better then what I thought/seen before draft but still not better then JV. I am not hating, I am happy he is hard worker and improved his game to the point where he will be valuable asset for the Jazz, but I still have right to be sad/frustrated that Jazz missed on better player IMHO.
It certainly will be interesting to see how things will develop. But you can't deny impressive debut by JV - he became just second rookie in Toronto's history to record double double in debut game. And it was against taller and stronger Hibber whom I consider second best center in Eastern Conference, not some kind of bench warmer or pushover. Jazz Dog knew what he was doing when he drafted him just infront of me in our fantasy league....

Anyway, great way to start the season! Taking care of tired back to back playing teams at home is a must and those wins will come handy in Spring. We will see if Jazz can play with same intensity on the road - that's where my biggest questions are about this team.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

It was not anti-Kanter campaign. It is more anti O'Connor draft choice campaign. I sincerely believe JV will be better player from those two from what I have seen to this point - and before draft it was not even close. Kanter is proving to me that he is better then what I thought/seen before draft but still not better then JV. I am not hating, I am .

Exactly my point. True, I was not clear enough on first time, but explained later. Even if JV will be good enough for FIRST pick, it will no mean that KOC made significant "negative" mistake on THIRD. May be he missed move of genius, and made just very good pick.

I had to tell "antiKanter for a 3-rd pick as proof inability KOC to choose on first draft". I think the poibt is now moot and in retrospective it's more like "unhealthy combination of Sloan and young players woth non-stanard set of skills".

It was great to see our new guys, Mo, Marvin and Foye, start out the first game fulfilling our three point hopes, nailing 6 of 11!! Gotta love holding the Mavs to 31 points in the second half too.

Very good second half in their debut. The first half was pretty ugly though. The defense was weak & the offense looked totaly scrambled. Even in the second half, they really didn't do much in the half court, they were just able to run & gun.

Burks, to me, is by FAR the biggest story of the game. Maybe Ty will play him a bunch of minutes in the next game. It's possible he is still trying to figure out the rotations. Burks was great in summer league & one of the teams best players in the preseason. No way Foye simply beat him out for those minutes. I like what Foye can add to the team, but if Ty doesn't feel either of them can play point, (I thought Jamal was fine vs DAL) then the easy decision in my eyes is to give the minutes to the guys who; both earned it, and is the future of the team .... not the vet on a 1 year contract. I'm going to wait to see what happens over the first few games before panicing about Burks though.

Nice to get a win right out of the gates, but it's early & there is a lot of work to do.

Romoholic wrote:

I'm gonna just come out and say it. Yeah the win was awesome, Marvin and Mo were great, but 2 min for Burks and 17 and 14 mins for Favors and Kanter is ludicrous. Corbin needs to pull his head out of his ass and figure out a better way to distribute the minutes. If you have to trade Milsap or Al to force Corbin to use the young weapons, then do it. He just flat out can not subscribe to the Sloan use of young guys. When Jerry did it he had two Legends to fall back on, Corbin doesn't. This Jazz team has so much potential, but Corbin will ruin it all if something doesn't change soon. Ok rant over, that was an awesome way to start the season. Marvin and Mo are going to kill it for us this year

Well the interesting thing is that Jefferson only played 29 minutes, and Millsap led the team but still only played 33 minutes, and they were both just dominant on the boards. I was actually surprised, and a little dissapointed to see Corbin put the starters back in during the 4th quarter when the second unit was maintaining and even extending the lead, if he had just let the starters rest in the 4th like he could/should have there wouldn't have been a single Jazz player with 30+ minutes.

What you are talking about really is a win now/win later proposition. I don't think this is just a "falling back on the vets" situation, because I don't think there is any question that Millsap and Jefferson are better than Kanter and Favors right now, and the Jazz will be a better team right now with them getting the majority of the minutes. So the question is, is it worth it? How good can this team be? Do you play today to be the best today or to make a possibly better future come quicker?

I'm in the "play to win now" camp, but really hope we see a lot of games where none of the big 4 plays more than 30 minutes and all of them play more than 20, but I am excited to see this team, as it is right now, come together and play the full season.

TheMagnus wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

I'm gonna just come out and say it. Yeah the win was awesome, Marvin and Mo were great, but 2 min for Burks and 17 and 14 mins for Favors and Kanter is ludicrous. Corbin needs to pull his head out of his ass and figure out a better way to distribute the minutes. If you have to trade Milsap or Al to force Corbin to use the young weapons, then do it. He just flat out can not subscribe to the Sloan use of young guys. When Jerry did it he had two Legends to fall back on, Corbin doesn't. This Jazz team has so much potential, but Corbin will ruin it all if something doesn't change soon. Ok rant over, that was an awesome way to start the season. Marvin and Mo are going to kill it for us this year

Well the interesting thing is that Jefferson only played 29 minutes, and Millsap led the team but still only played 33 minutes, and they were both just dominant on the boards. I was actually surprised, and a little dissapointed to see Corbin put the starters back in during the 4th quarter when the second unit was maintaining and even extending the lead, if he had just let the starters rest in the 4th like he could/should have there wouldn't have been a single Jazz player with 30+ minutes.

What you are talking about really is a win now/win later proposition. I don't think this is just a "falling back on the vets" situation, because I don't think there is any question that Millsap and Jefferson are better than Kanter and Favors right now, and the Jazz will be a better team right now with them getting the majority of the minutes. So the question is, is it worth it? How good can this team be? Do you play today to be the best today or to make a possibly better future come quicker?

I'm in the "play to win now" camp, but really hope we see a lot of games where none of the big 4 plays more than 30 minutes and all of them play more than 20, but I am excited to see this team, as it is right now, come together and play the full season.

I'm with ya one the win now thing. But if the young guys are getting it done, leave them in the game! Also you can't play burks only 2 mins in garbage time! It was good to see Al only take 11 shots last night and play under 30. If they can keep minutes spread like that we should be pretty fresh late in the season

TheMagnus wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

I'm gonna just come out and say it. Yeah the win was awesome, Marvin and Mo were great, but 2 min for Burks and 17 and 14 mins for Favors and Kanter is ludicrous. Corbin needs to pull his head out of his ass and figure out a better way to distribute the minutes. If you have to trade Milsap or Al to force Corbin to use the young weapons, then do it. He just flat out can not subscribe to the Sloan use of young guys. When Jerry did it he had two Legends to fall back on, Corbin doesn't. This Jazz team has so much potential, but Corbin will ruin it all if something doesn't change soon. Ok rant over, that was an awesome way to start the season. Marvin and Mo are going to kill it for us this year

Well the interesting thing is that Jefferson only played 29 minutes, and Millsap led the team but still only played 33 minutes, and they were both just dominant on the boards. I was actually surprised, and a little dissapointed to see Corbin put the starters back in during the 4th quarter when the second unit was maintaining and even extending the lead, if he had just let the starters rest in the 4th like he could/should have there wouldn't have been a single Jazz player with 30+ minutes.

What you are talking about really is a win now/win later proposition. I don't think this is just a "falling back on the vets" situation, because I don't think there is any question that Millsap and Jefferson are better than Kanter and Favors right now, and the Jazz will be a better team right now with them getting the majority of the minutes. So the question is, is it worth it? How good can this team be? Do you play today to be the best today or to make a possibly better future come quicker?

I'm in the "play to win now" camp, but really hope we see a lot of games where none of the big 4 plays more than 30 minutes and all of them play more than 20, but I am excited to see this team, as it is right now, come together and play the full season.

I agree/disagree with yoru take on the starters in the 4th. I tweeted out after the mandatory TO after the 9:00 mark of the 4th i was a little surprised a starter or two didnt come back in. Utah was up by I think 17 at one point, and Dallas had their first unit in early in the 4th, and I thought after a quick little like 6-0 run to cut it to 11 or 12 I thought it was time for Corbin to bring in the starters.

I agree however, that bringin in the starters a few minutes later might not have been the best move. The bench countered the Mavs run, and got it back to 14-15 point lead before the starters came back in. I thought at that point the bench should have stayed in, but with a quick leash for the next 2 minutes. Dallas gets it back to a 10-11 point game before the 6:00 mark, call a 20, and put in the starters.

Overall though, i was a little surprised like you were to see them come back in when they did. Obviously, the minutes will be an ongoing theme all year. However, lets look at it from a different perspective. This depth might make it hard for burks to get in, and there might be some disgruntled players, but does utah really ever put anybody in for 40 minutes? That is nice for a starter. This saves their legs, especially in back to backs.

Thinking of back to backs i watched the Lakers in the 4th. Wow. (First, let's all enjoy the Lakers struggles. Will it continue? No, but let's enjoy it while it lasts.) Look at the minutes played in the 2nd game of the season and a back to back.

dwight 41 minutes.
gasol 40 minutes
kobe 38 minutes
nash left game early due to a bruised leg.

Really? kobe is a very old 33 after putting on all those late playoff runs, and gasol is 32. Dwight is recovering from offseason surgery. There is a difference between aldridge for 38, batum, for 40 and matthews for 36 and playing the minutes the Lakers played. The blazers listed are relatively young, lakers are old. the Lakers cant keep playing like this.

Its not the 0-2 that would worry me if i was a lakers fan, its the fact they are already playing playoff game minutes, in back-to-backs, AND are 0-2. No way can these guys keep playing these minutes. When they do have to get less, who do the lakers put in? ebanks? hill? blake? Haha. Jamison is above average at this stage of his career. again, the 0-2 dosent make me happy, but its they have nobody on that bench, and they are playing their guys playoff minutes, and losing.

The thing about Burks is that he can create off the dribble and is aggressive with the ball, he gives us another tool. When we traded Harris, we lost that skill. Mo is a shooter and a leader, Hayward can, but he is more a take what the offense gives him, and Marvin seems similar with less team passing and better outside shooting. Tinsley seems to be good at getting the team into their sets, but isn't going to beat anyone with the ball except maybe Nash! So with all those guys we are reliant on the offense doing its thing and creating offense, not that that's a bad thing! But there is no creator, and thats why I think we should be getting Burks out there, have someone who can get to the rack off the dribble rather than a cut or screen, create fouls, make the defense think. If Ty is concerned he's not a pg, team him Foye, between them there is a least the equivalent of one pg. It's all about having options, especially later in the season, and Burks has the one thing we're now missing!