GTS Utah @ Toronto 11/12/12

Calgary Jazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Wow. Well that pretyt much seals it, I am officially revoking your Jazz fan card.
.

Oh don't tell me you like or liked everybody on the roster equally. I did not like J.Howard when he played for the Jazz last year for example, Mutang hated CJ all the time, does it make you less of the fan? We all have our favorite players and some players we do not like. Don't tell me you would like Carmelo if he somehow would end up playing for the Jazz.

Oh, just shut the hell up would you Calgary Raptor? You are an ignorant trolling dick about Kanter and an obnoxious overzealous fan-boy about Jonas, everybody here knows it, and I'm not going to indulge your compulsive need to prove it, while you simultaneously try to justify it, at every possible opportunity.

I tried to give you a chance to be something else, but it is clearly beyond your capacity, thinking that it wasn't was truly MY BAD, so as always I'm sorry I even brought it up.

TheMagnus wrote:

You are an ignorant trolling dick about Kanter and an obnoxious overzealous fan-boy about Jonas, everybody here knows it

No. I am just right about who was better draft choice for the Jazz and in few years you will look back at it and say - eh, Calgary was right... Same like I was right about AK being underutilized by Sloan - glad some of people here agreed with it finally. Hey who took him in our fantasy league so early? I bet that somebody is enjoying AK's production now. And who was right about AK being better passer then Hayward? Hm... must be me again? I guess I know few things about basketball lol?
You can call me whatever you like, I do not care really. I was happy when Sloan quit, I am happy Howard is gone, will be happy when Kanter will be gone as well. Same as Mutang who was super duper happy when CJ was gone - whats the difference dare I ask? He is "true Jazz fan" and I am troll? ROFL.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

You are an ignorant trolling dick about Kanter and an obnoxious overzealous fan-boy about Jonas, everybody here knows it

No. I am just right about who was better draft choice for the Jazz and in few years you will look back at it and say - eh, Calgary was right... Same like I was right about AK being underutilized by Sloan - glad some of people here agreed with it finally. Hey who took him in our fantasy league so early? I bet that somebody is enjoying AK's production now. And who was right about AK being better passer then Hayward? Hm... must be me again? I guess I know few things about basketball lol?
You can call me whatever you like, I do not care really. I was happy when Sloan quit, I am happy Howard is gone, will be happy when Kanter will be gone as well. Same as Mutang who was super duper happy when CJ was gone - whats the difference dare I ask? He is "true Jazz fan" and I am troll? ROFL.

You really are an intollerable douche, and a troll, but this is all I really want to say....

TheMagnus wrote:

Calgary Jazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

You are an ignorant trolling dick about Kanter and an obnoxious overzealous fan-boy about Jonas, everybody here knows it

No. I am just right about who was better draft choice for the Jazz and in few years you will look back at it and say - eh, Calgary was right... Same like I was right about AK being underutilized by Sloan - glad some of people here agreed with it finally. Hey who took him in our fantasy league so early? I bet that somebody is enjoying AK's production now. And who was right about AK being better passer then Hayward? Hm... must be me again? I guess I know few things about basketball lol?
You can call me whatever you like, I do not care really. I was happy when Sloan quit, I am happy Howard is gone, will be happy when Kanter will be gone as well. Same as Mutang who was super duper happy when CJ was gone - whats the difference dare I ask? He is "true Jazz fan" and I am troll? ROFL.

You really are an intollerable douche, and a troll, but this is all I really want to say....

Breath people, breath. Don't make me put on my mod hat!

Open forum to discuss Jazz opinions & ideas, right? We don't have to agree, but try to be respectful.

Sorry zero, you do what you've got to do, but my tolerance for calg's shtick has been exhausted, and as long as he keeps it up I.m going to keep talking to him in a way consistent with my feelings.

but maybe somebody can help me out? help me to not feel like calgary isn't an intolerable douche troll so that I can stop treating him like one?

TheMagnus wrote:

Sorry zero, you do what you've got to do, but my tolerance for calg's shtick has been exhausted, and as long as he keeps it up I.m going to keep talking to him in a way consistent with my feelings.

but maybe somebody can help me out? help me to not feel like calgary isn't an intolerable douche troll so that I can stop treating him like one?

Alright, here's what I hear from Calg ..... (Calg, correct me if I'm wrong)

He is a Jazz fan, but doesn't like all Jazz players the same. (I hated Boozer, didn't like CJ much, though Raja acted the fool during his second stint, etc.) Calg thinks that Jonas not only would have been a better pick for the Jazz, but also will be the better player than Enes in the long run. Calg has argued a little that Jonas is better now, but is more focused on the long-term, which nobody here (unless you can see th future) can argue. Something to remember as well is that Calg has seen & will probably continue to see more of Jonas than the rest of us will. But for most of us Jonas is an afterthought on a bad team..."who cares!?!?!". Calg has shown that he isn't a basketball idiot. He's a strong member of our JazzNation community, does well in GTS & is a great resource for us when it comes to Euro-ball. I also can't recall Calg ever reverting to name-calling & crap like that, which is an honorable trait, especially considering his veiws are often in the minority. Calg also didn't love Sloan & his system, which isn't that uncommon among Jazz faithful. He also has a love-affair with AK that I completely understand & will not argue with.

Here's the flip side....

Calg "hated" Kanter before he ever laced 'em up for the Jazz. I didn't love the pick, and still have my questions about him as a viable #3 overall pick, but what I can say is that 99% of Jazz fans probably would find it hard to hate him even if they tried. Enes has obviously worked on his body, and has shown good personality as well. He doesn't appear lazy (Boozer) on the court, just makes young-player-mistakes. Enes has flashes of greatness, but doesn't have it all together yet. A lot of us don't always agree with every decision the team/coach/players make, but Calg often times comes across as being a Jazz hater to get his point across, and doesn't seem to relent even when there's no point in arguing anymore. Of coarse, there are plenty of people that seem more than happy to argue with him, and it's hard for ANYONE to just walk away from a "fight". At some point, Calg, you have to just say "oh well, I didn't love the pick/substitution/signing, etc, but I am a fan of the team & will cheer for them for that reason alone." Calg seems like he WANTS certain Jazz players to fail, just so he can be right, which is why some people (understandably) don't think he's a true fan, and instead is a "troll". As a fan of the team, you should NOT want the players to fail IMO.

I don't think Calg & skiier are coming from the same place either, so treating him the same is unfair IMO. To me, Calg is a Jazz fan, very capable of good back-and-forth conversation, where skiier was just around to start crap, call names, & is probably happier in a hate-filled political/religious forum than he would be here ... which is why he'd not around anymore. Both are stubborn in their points of view, but still totaly different IMO.

So there is my analysis. I don't see the point is attacking, although I understand why it's so tempting. I also don't want forum members to feel that they can't differ in opinion from the masses without getting their a**es handed to them.

Well I see what you are saying, but almost completely dissagree.

You brought up several issues that you think puts him in the minority, but the fact of the matter is that those issues you mentioned are litterally all he EVER talks about.

While every fan is different, here are a few things that distinguish an actual fan from a person who is either a) just a miserable human being who decided to create some personal identity by associating himself wiht a sports team, or b) a banwagon poser that only likes a team for convenience or nostalgia.

In all the time I have known Calg I have not seen any evidence besides he presence here that he is, in fact, a fan of the Utah Jazz. I know he's a fan of AK, he's a fan of Jonas Valanciunas, he's a fan of international basketball, he's deomonstrated all of that very clearly.

But when it comes to actually being a fan of the Utah Jazz, I see exactly zero evidence that he is one.

We've got a lot of posts here on this site, there's a convenient search feature, if somebody can provide me tangible evidence that Calg has said or done anything that would indicate that he is a Jazz fan, or that he has the capacity to discuss antything that is not realted to his three pet topics of Jazz Management/Coaching being terrible, AK being awesome, or the Kanter/JV pissing match, I challenge you to produce it.

And comparing him to skiier is unfair, to skiier. skiier was a bigoted abrasive crazy person, but even he had occational spurts at the start of every season were he would actually get hope for his team and become substantically less dickish. My favorite part about him was that for all of idiocy he was never ashamed of what he was, he never denied who he was, he embraced it, and I respected that.

Calg is everything that was annoying about skiier to me as a Jazz fan, agressively negative, disrespectfull of Jazz tradition and history, midlessly repetitive with his narrow opionions, but instead of being a bigoted crazy person who was possibly mentally handicapped he's smugly arrogant and thinks he is smarter than he is, which makes him about a gagillion times less likeable than skiier in my personal opionion.

My two cents: I would be very disappointed if either Mags or Calgary (or any other members) stopped posting in this forum. We need activity and diversity of opinion. See, I can use a word progressives lay claim to: "diversity".

Mags, truth is, I agree with you much more than Calg. But I do think he is a fan. Just a fan that has a different way of expression his desire for the team to do well. His desire for the team to do well appears to be high, and he doesn't seemto be able to accept anything that he feels isn't the best solution, whether it's PT, signings, drafting, etc.. Now, maybe that is him thinking he is smarter than he is (as many of us armchair GM's do), but to me, it's just a different way of being a "fan". If he didn't want the team to do well, then why would he want the Jazz to draft the player he thinks is better?

Like I said, I do agree with you on a lot of things, just trying to see both sides here.

Man, thought I'd come on here today since I have an hour to waste in the office and ....well, I see I haven't missed much, or rather things haven't changed much. Hah!

I'm well known as the anti-Calgary, but here's my bottom line here on Calgary and his anti-Jazz stuff (IMO) and also why he's such a douche (just my opinion Calgary!).

As for JV vs Kanter and that 3rd pick, I dont think anyone on this entire site has EVER said that JV would NOT have been a better pick, or that Kanter is better than JV. EVER. I for one have never said that Kanter is better than JV, nor that he was a better pick than JV. I only came into that conversation once the Euro ball was happening, and Calgary was ranting and raving at how horrible Enes was and how he would be out of the league or maybe D league after his rookie contract, and even that he wouldn't even be able to rebound like he was, once in the NBA. I was able to see that on the contrary, Enes was bringing some skills, and elite level at that, to this team. And that was before he even got any training. So Calgary and I got into it so much, because Calgary desperately wants to prove that his choice for the 3rd pick was so much better. Meanwhile, he ran off at the mouth so much about how horrible Kanter is/was/will be, saying he wont be able to rebound, saying his workout regimen was a poor decision, just everything Kanter did was a bad decision. And that he'll be out of the league. Well, I can see that Calgary can't evaluate talent to save his life, OR, he's got so much pride in himself that he can't admit he was wrong about Kanter and what he's done to this point. And it's that ideal, that wont even let him compare the two on level playing fields, side by side.

In the end, my problem with Calgary was not that he preferred someone else. It was that he bashed Kanter to no end, when he didn't have the foggiest clue about his abilities, and still can't see that Kanter isn't going anywhere and is going to be a good player. And calling me and others a Homer, clueless etc all for recognizing the talent Kanter has, while Calgary would just deny it all. Kanter was never even and still isn't given a fair shake by Calgary. And thats fine, it's hilarious when Kanter proves Calgary wrong so often, and will continue to do so. Certainly all of us with half a brain on here can see that Calgarys rants about how Kanter is so horrible, he wont even be on the Jazz after year three is absurd, and does show some inability to evaluate talent by the self proclaimed "Objective Expert" Calgary, and certainly shows a complete lack of objectivity. Calgary is right, and you all know it, that I HATED CJ Miles on this team, hated it. Cant' stand his way of playing, lack of intelligence etc. Difference is, I gave CJ a chance, and go ahead an look at what he's doing in Cleveland; big fat nothing. There's an I told you so there....but I gave him a chance, and was proven right. Thats the difference Calgary.

And now that Kanter has already WAAAaaay surpassed Calgary's bashings of Kanter, and deep down Calgary knows Enes is going to prove him wrong, all he has now is this mythical comparison between the two that he focuses on all the time, to prove that JV was the better pick. When in actuality, nobody ever said JV wouldn't be a good or better player. Nobody ever said that Kanter was a better pick over JV. Calgary, YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE ARGUING THAT JV WILL OR WILL NOT BE BETTER THAN KANTER. You're it bucko, nobody else. And thats why he doesn't appear to me to be a Jazz fine either, because he wants Kanter to fail, and "his guy" to be a stud.

If you're a Jazz fan, and certainly now 2 years after the draft, WHO THE F CARES ABOUT THE RAPTORS AND JV?????!

zero24gravity wrote:

Mags, truth is, I agree with you much more than Calg. But I do think he is a fan. Just a fan that has a different way of expression his desire for the team to do well. His desire for the team to do well appears to be high, and he doesn't seemto be able to accept anything that he feels isn't the best solution, whether it's PT, signings, drafting, etc.. Now, maybe that is him thinking he is smarter than he is (as many of us armchair GM's do), but to me, it's just a different way of being a "fan". If he didn't want the team to do well, then why would he want the Jazz to draft the player he thinks is better?

Like I said, I do agree with you on a lot of things, just trying to see both sides here.

Solid points. I appreciate both your glass-is-half-full view of Calg and your desire for peace.

Well, I think I've vented out my share.

Calgary Raptors probably didn't deserve all of that, so I guess I'm sorry. And I agree with Crunch, I don't want him to go away. Perhaps we can both just be a little more mindfull of the attitudes of the rest of the posters here in future.

So, with that being said, I'm off to pick up my son and go see the Jazz whip the Celtics in the Garden! Never been to the Garden, super excited to see how many Celtics fans want to fight me for yelling "Paul Pierce is a sissy!!!"

Mutangclan wrote:

Man, thought I'd come on here today since I have an hour to waste in the office and ....well, I see I haven't missed much, or rather things haven't changed much. Hah!

I'm well known as the anti-Calgary, but here's my bottom line here on Calgary and his anti-Jazz stuff (IMO) and also why he's such a douche (just my opinion Calgary!).

As for JV vs Kanter and that 3rd pick, I dont think anyone on this entire site has EVER said that JV would NOT have been a better pick, or that Kanter is better than JV. EVER. I for one have never said that Kanter is better than JV, nor that he was a better pick than JV. I only came into that conversation once the Euro ball was happening, and Calgary was ranting and raving at how horrible Enes was and how he would be out of the league or maybe D league after his rookie contract, and even that he wouldn't even be able to rebound like he was, once in the NBA. I was able to see that on the contrary, Enes was bringing some skills, and elite level at that, to this team. And that was before he even got any training. So Calgary and I got into it so much, because Calgary desperately wants to prove that his choice for the 3rd pick was so much better. Meanwhile, he ran off at the mouth so much about how horrible Kanter is/was/will be, saying he wont be able to rebound, saying his workout regimen was a poor decision, just everything Kanter did was a bad decision. And that he'll be out of the league. Well, I can see that Calgary can't evaluate talent to save his life, OR, he's got so much pride in himself that he can't admit he was wrong about Kanter and what he's done to this point. And it's that ideal, that wont even let him compare the two on level playing fields, side by side.

In the end, my problem with Calgary was not that he preferred someone else. It was that he bashed Kanter to no end, when he didn't have the foggiest clue about his abilities, and still can't see that Kanter isn't going anywhere and is going to be a good player. And Kanter was never even and still isn't given a fair shake by Calgary. And thats fine, it's hilarious when Kanter proves Calgary wrong so often, and will continue to do so. Certainly all of us with half a brain on here can see that Calgarys rants about how Kanter is so horrible, he wont even be on the Jazz after year three is absurd, and does show some inability to evaluate talent by the self proclaimed "Objective Expert" Calgary, and certainly shows a complete lack of objectivity. Calgary is right, and you all know it, that I HATED CJ Miles on this team, hated it. Cant' stand his way of playing, lack of intelligence etc. Difference is, I gave CJ a chance, and go ahead an look at what he's doing in Cleveland; big fat nothing. There's an I told you so there....but I gave him a chance, and was proven right. Thats the difference Calgary.

And now that Kanter has already WAAAaaay surpassed Calgary's bashings of Kanter, and deep down Calgary knows Enes is going to prove him wrong, all he has now is this mythical comparison between the two that he focuses on all the time, to prove that JV was the better pick. When in actuality, nobody ever said JV wouldn't be a good or better player. Nobody ever said that Kanter was a better pick over JV. Calgary, YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE ARGUING THAT JV WILL OR WILL NOT BE BETTER THAN KANTER. You're it bucko, nobody else. And thats why he doesn't appear to me to be a Jazz fine either, because he wants Kanter to fail, and "his guy" to be a stud.

If you're a Jazz fan, and certainly now 2 years after the draft, WHO THE F CARES ABOUT THE RAPTORS AND JV?????!

Hey there MU!!!! I figured this might bring you back....mission accomplished.

TheMagnus wrote:

Oh, just shut the hell up would you Calgary Raptor? You are an ignorant trolling dick about Kanter and an obnoxious overzealous fan-boy about Jonas, everybody here knows it, and I'm not going to indulge your compulsive need to prove it, while you simultaneously try to justify it, at every possible opportunity.

I tried to give you a chance to be something else, but it is clearly beyond your capacity, thinking that it wasn't was truly MY BAD, so as always I'm sorry I even brought it up.
.............
may be somebody can help me out?

Somebody can try at least. Here:

you can consider couple steps for consustency. Like decide are the Kanter so really great versus that he was so bed that he deserved to benched any time for any time length in favor of big three. (I looked in dictionary... looks like it is callsed "talking with two side of the mouth?)

Or you can not. Of course consistency makes lconversations easier, but some fellas like tough challenges

I added to my above post to say that I think we need more activity and diversity of opinion here than we already have. I don't want to see any members go. I have seen some formerly good forums slowly die out altogether when people start getting too riled up with people they disagree with. Glad to see Mu back too.

Anybody agree or disagree with my "DWill Advantage Has Shrunk" post in the Stat Geekery thread on the The Rest of the League side?

Mutangclan wrote:

Man, thought I'd come on here today since I have an hour to waste in the office and ....well, I see I haven't missed much, or rather things haven't changed much. Hah!

I'm well known as the anti-Calgary, but here's my bottom line here on Calgary and his anti-Jazz stuff (IMO) and also why he's such a douche (just my opinion Calgary!).

As for JV vs Kanter and that 3rd pick, I dont think anyone on this entire site has EVER said that JV would NOT have been a better pick, or that Kanter is better than JV. EVER. I for one have never said that Kanter is better than JV, nor that he was a better pick than JV. I only came into that conversation once the Euro ball was happening, and Calgary was ranting and raving at how horrible Enes was and how he would be out of the league or maybe D league after his rookie contract, and even that he wouldn't even be able to rebound like he was, once in the NBA. I was able to see that on the contrary, Enes was bringing some skills, and elite level at that, to this team. And that was before he even got any training. So Calgary and I got into it so much, because Calgary desperately wants to prove that his choice for the 3rd pick was so much better. Meanwhile, he ran off at the mouth so much about how horrible Kanter is/was/will be, saying he wont be able to rebound, saying his workout regimen was a poor decision, just everything Kanter did was a bad decision. And that he'll be out of the league. Well, I can see that Calgary can't evaluate talent to save his life, OR, he's got so much pride in himself that he can't admit he was wrong about Kanter and what he's done to this point. And it's that ideal, that wont even let him compare the two on level playing fields, side by side.

In the end, my problem with Calgary was not that he preferred someone else. It was that he bashed Kanter to no end, when he didn't have the foggiest clue about his abilities, and still can't see that Kanter isn't going anywhere and is going to be a good player. And calling me and others a Homer, clueless etc all for recognizing the talent Kanter has, while Calgary would just deny it all. Kanter was never even and still isn't given a fair shake by Calgary. And thats fine, it's hilarious when Kanter proves Calgary wrong so often, and will continue to do so. Certainly all of us with half a brain on here can see that Calgarys rants about how Kanter is so horrible, he wont even be on the Jazz after year three is absurd, and does show some inability to evaluate talent by the self proclaimed "Objective Expert" Calgary, and certainly shows a complete lack of objectivity. Calgary is right, and you all know it, that I HATED CJ Miles on this team, hated it. Cant' stand his way of playing, lack of intelligence etc. Difference is, I gave CJ a chance, and go ahead an look at what he's doing in Cleveland; big fat nothing. There's an I told you so there....but I gave him a chance, and was proven right. Thats the difference Calgary.

And now that Kanter has already WAAAaaay surpassed Calgary's bashings of Kanter, and deep down Calgary knows Enes is going to prove him wrong, all he has now is this mythical comparison between the two that he focuses on all the time, to prove that JV was the better pick. When in actuality, nobody ever said JV wouldn't be a good or better player. Nobody ever said that Kanter was a better pick over JV. Calgary, YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE ARGUING THAT JV WILL OR WILL NOT BE BETTER THAN KANTER. You're it bucko, nobody else. And thats why he doesn't appear to me to be a Jazz fine either, because he wants Kanter to fail, and "his guy" to be a stud.

If you're a Jazz fan, and certainly now 2 years after the draft, WHO THE F CARES ABOUT THE RAPTORS AND JV?????!

Oh Mu we miss you around here, Stick around brother!

It gets old hearing the same old crap that Kanter's gonna be out of the league in a year or two when we all know he's anti Enes as they come for what ever the F reason? Its freaking same OLD chit Jonas walks on water and his shit dont stink! I'm sick of hearing about it. He plays for the raps, Enes plays hear do we need to know anymore!

Richardale wrote:

It gets old hearing the same old crap that Kanter's gonna be out of the league in a year or two when we all know he's anti Enes as they come for what ever the F reason? Its freaking same OLD chit Jonas walks on water and his shit dont stink! I'm sick of hearing about it. He plays for the raps, Enes plays hear do we need to know anymore!

Correct! Any further talk about JV needs to go in the rest of the league forum, where it belongs.