Off-season roster improvements

dongibby wrote:

[quote=Don have you paid attention to Beasley since coming into the league? And even this past season????? He's the worst dude to add to any team....

On Smith, yes, it does not help the outside shooting, but he has all-star skills in blks/stls/rebs and he's a good scorer. I'm sure Hayward will be much like he was the second half of the season, and maybe better with his shooting. Also, possible upgrade at PG. I'd take Calderon for sure, if it comes down to he or Devin.

Rawns, remind me of the salary cap and where that leaves Utah then.....?

I understand how people think about Beasley because of his off court problems but he brings a lot of things to the court, I have not heard of him acting up in the locker room on any of the team's he has played for so as long as he keep his act together I would have no problem with him, he is the most talented SF in this summer's free agent pool and if the Jazz is going to take on a guy that has been known to be a knuckle head witch both of these guys are then I would have to take Beasley over Smith I think his game pretty much fill's ever need the Jazz has at that position.
[/quote]

He's a ball hog and just got caught smoking weed again earlier this season if I'm not mistaken, for the second time since coming into the league. He's a scorer, with no real 3pt shot, and thats it. Doesn't pass, rebound or play defense.
Josh Smith is 10x the player he is. Not as good a scorer, but still a good scorer and does some of everything.

Speaking of Josh Smith, with Atlanta losing last night to an old Celtics team, I think its certain they make moves. I still want Josh Smith for Al, I think that would be too too sweet. We would be a monster monster defensive team, first and foremost. Only spot where an opposing team would have a weaker defender, would be at PG. The other 4 are all good or great defenders, but with Smith and Favors, MAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNN, nobody would get buckets inside!!! I hate doing this "fantasy hope" thing, but just can't help it. With the players/money/draft picks available, KOC has the assets to make a big splash. Why not get a snubbed All Star two years straight, at a bargain price since ATL will feel forced to make a move, and Smith has been that guy for years!? It will be tough, because Al over the course of the season was and has been a great low post scorer. I'd be worried a bit about replacing that.......but I'd still do it!!

I think that next season, by subtraction alone, this team will be better....more DC, less CJ for example. But also we're going to see improvements IMO, by Burks, Favors, Hayward and Kanter. I love this from Gordon:

"Hayward said his main goal in the offseason is "to become an elite-level shooter."

I tend to believe that he'll achieve that; or maybe its because Hornacek sees something in him that will make it so. Either way, thats huge. Jazz will probably go hard after some outside shooting anyway, whether it's Novak, Belinelli, Mo Williams, Dragic, Reddick, whoever, but to add Hayward's improvement to that, we could go from almost no outside shooting to pretty stellar. Not to mention Burks is a much better jumpshooter than we thought.
Looking good, or actually great moving forward. I just want to see KOC do his magic, use all the assets and not ONLY improve from within. (of course, getting LIlliard and that draft pick could be the "tim duncan" lotto luck of 2012)

Mutangclan wrote:

...Not to mention Burks is a much better jumpshooter than we thought....

IMHO Burks' already a very good jumpshooter out off the dribble or a screen; he's good with the ball in his hands. Still need to be a better spot up shooter, and to react a little bit faster on transition D. But I like his chances to become a solid game-changer for the Jazz.

Ooooooooo yesssssssss, come to daddy joshy....... :

http://tracking.si.com/2012/05/12/hawks-josh-smith-a-little-jealous-of-celtics-fan-support/?sct=nba_t2_a13

Utah fans LOVE their players and team, come on down!!! Lets see a trade KOC!

Pretty significant comments, just read it:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765575627/Utah-Jazz-Offseason-reflections.html

Time to be a wanna-be GM:

Utah gets Josh Smith, Z.Pachulia
Atlanta gets Al Jefferson, Raja Bell and a 2nd round pick (maybe a 1st)

Utah signs Steve Nash

Orlando goes into "blow-up" mode due to Howard bailing and trades Utah Reddick for either a pick or part of the Okur trade exception.

The Bulls, needing someone to fill in while Rose misses half the season, trades for D.Harris. Let's go with Korver and CJ Watson for Harris and Carroll. (Add Carroll because I think the Bulls would want a little more.)

* The rights to Tomic coud be added or subbed into any of the above deals if necessary.

Oh, and the Warriors get jumped in the lottery, giving Utah that pick. (As new GM, I have the power to make that happen.)

So...

PG's: Nash, CJ Watson and rookie PG Marshall or Lillard
SG: Heyward, Burks, Reddick
SF: J.Smith, Korver
PF: Millsap, Pachulia, Evans
C: Favors, Kanter

Size, shooting, versitility, defense, experience, youth, athletisism.

I am one helluva GM

Zero!!!! Bravo sir!

Think Atlanta may want more, but like it like it! Smith possible, Nash possible, draft pick possible. Nice pull on Chicago needing a pg, and Devin perfect part time vet PG. Highly probably. I like it even if we dont get Nash. I still have this feeling we're getting GS's pick this year too.....MAN!! Can't wait for the lotto and the off-season!

I think most people are looking at the three (four counting Ahearn) that probably won't be back, the eight that should be the basis of the roster. Use Millsap, Big Al and Harris plus GS's draft pick as trade bait. With that KOC needs to do his thing, hopefully he's thinking more long term than short.
I think to get to the next level besides what he has in the eight players he needs- an elite PG, and elite SF/SG and two "good" big's. Harris is fine until he can be replaced by a better option, Big Al or Millsap are good but in the end their contracts and lack of size together will not get the Jazz over the hump.
KOC needs to pick up one need at a time or do a whopper and get a two or three player swap, I have confidence he will do good.
My dream pickups would be get FA's Dragic, Ellyasova, trade for Danny Granger and luck into GS's pick this year, not too much to ask, right?
Any chance of a 2 year $5 million a year deal for AK, he might want to stay in Utah for his kids and feels that he owes the Jazz a cut for the money he already made?

rorybreaker wrote:

My dream pickups would be get FA's Dragic, Ellyasova, trade for Danny Granger and luck into GS's pick this year, not too much to ask, right?
Any chance of a 2 year $5 million a year deal for AK, he might want to stay in Utah for his kids and feels that he owes the Jazz a cut for the money he already made?

Ilyasova would be an awesome pickup. Love his all-around game and grit. My kind of guy.
Dragic would be massive, as he would be for everyone else who will try to get him.
Still love Granger, but he's Scottie Pippen, not Jordan, so would need another.

Interesting thought on AK though isn't it??? He sure banked quite a bit, and mentioned once about giving it back or whatever. Well, nows his chance. Sign for something reasonable.

Mutangclan wrote:

Zero!!!! Bravo sir!

Think Atlanta may want more, but like it like it! Smith possible, Nash possible, draft pick possible. Nice pull on Chicago needing a pg, and Devin perfect part time vet PG. Highly probably. I like it even if we dont get Nash. I still have this feeling we're getting GS's pick this year too.....MAN!! Can't wait for the lotto and the off-season!

Just realized that the Bulls have a team option on Korver (R.Brewer as well) that they may not excercise because they are in a rough spot financially (thanks mostly to Boooooozer). Jazz may just be able to sign him without the trade. Wonder if he'd come back. Seems like he liked it here.... hell, there are still thousands of pink Korver jerseys worn every day around the state.

zero24gravity wrote:

Just realized that the Bulls have a team option on Korver (R.Brewer as well) that they may not excercise because they are in a rough spot financially (thanks mostly to Boooooozer). Jazz may just be able to sign him without the trade. Wonder if he'd come back. Seems like he liked it here.... hell, there are still thousands of pink Korver jerseys worn every day around the state.

And then the Trib writes this:
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/54107927-87/jazz-korver-shooting-bulls.html.csp

Oh definitely, I'd take Korver back in a heartbeat. And I dont know why his defense is talked about really at all. I watched him hustle and move his feet very well, and was easily, EASILY better than CJ ever was. Not to mention he is one of those hustle players.
Korver, Novak, Ryan Anderson......any of them are better than what we had in CJ and Raja. Combined actually.

Korver would be awesome.

Another name that has come up as possibly being available is OJ Mayo. He's not a guy I would want to start, but for a couple Mil a year I think he could do a nice job in CJ Miles off-the-bench role.

TheMagnus wrote:

Korver would be awesome.

Another name that has come up as possibly being available is OJ Mayo. He's not a guy I would want to start, but for a couple Mil a year I think he could do a nice job in CJ Miles off-the-bench role.

What about our buddy Mo Williams if we are going to reconstitute around former players? I'd say a Korver and Williams pick up would go along way towards making the Jazz better with a seamless transition. Now if we could get back that dude we let Portland steal....Reunion Time!

MTJazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Korver would be awesome.

Another name that has come up as possibly being available is OJ Mayo. He's not a guy I would want to start, but for a couple Mil a year I think he could do a nice job in CJ Miles off-the-bench role.

What about our buddy Mo Williams if we are going to reconstitute around former players? I'd say a Korver and Williams pick up would go along way towards making the Jazz better with a seamless transition. Now if we could get back that dude we let Portland steal....Reunion Time!

Mo wants to start, IMO he's very much good enough to start, and could be had at a somewhat discounted rate since he's gotten very little of the Clippers hype. I know he was pretty dejected when they went and got Chris Paul, he thought it was going to be the MO/Blake show up there. Mo is a good player, well rounded, plays good enough D I believe, (can't really remember) hits the 3 with consistency. And what is really a big part of the attraction, is he wants to be looked at with all the other elite PG's. So he wants to be good. He may be my first choice I think, more so than Dragic.
And adding Korver would go a looooong way to making this team whole. And it can't be understated MT, that it would be just about a seamless transition with those two. I think adding those two would vault this team into the 4th-5th seed talk. Maybe better. And thats just next year.

I don't think Mo is a good fit for the Jazz, expecially not as a starting PG. In fact I don't think he's a good fit as a starting PG for most teams. He had his best years playing second fiddle to Lebron in Cleveland, he's not a great passer, he's not a guy who can control the tempo of a game... in fact he's a lot like Devin Harris, only he'd rather shoot a jumper than attack the rim. I like him as a backup/change of pace guy, but I don't think he's the answer as a starting PG.

TheMagnus wrote:

I don't think Mo is a good fit for the Jazz, expecially not as a starting PG. In fact I don't think he's a good fit as a starting PG for most teams. He had his best years playing second fiddle to Lebron in Cleveland, he's not a great passer, he's not a guy who can control the tempo of a game... in fact he's a lot like Devin Harris, only he'd rather shoot a jumper than attack the rim. I like him as a backup/change of pace guy, but I don't think he's the answer as a starting PG.

The change of pace guy was what I was thinking. As a backup he is a serious upgrade over Watson and Tinsley plus I like the fact he can stick the jumper. The Jazz are a good passing team - don't need a major distributor in the second unit. Don't think he'll sign for backup money, though.

TheMagnus wrote:

I don't think Mo is a good fit for the Jazz, expecially not as a starting PG. In fact I don't think he's a good fit as a starting PG for most teams. He had his best years playing second fiddle to Lebron in Cleveland, he's not a great passer, he's not a guy who can control the tempo of a game... in fact he's a lot like Devin Harris, only he'd rather shoot a jumper than attack the rim. I like him as a backup/change of pace guy, but I don't think he's the answer as a starting PG.

I dont know, I think you guys are just looking at the situations he was put in. Not to mention, he'd rather shoot a jumper than attack the rim; since when is that a bad thing for this team???? Thats what we need.
I mean, throw out Cleveland first. He played with ball dominant Lebron. What else would he do besides be a shooter? Shoot, even Wade now is being corralled next to Lebron. Not to mention, have you forgotten his play in Milwaukee? He was averaging 6+ asts a night, and around 15pts per for 4 seasons, all while on average to bad teams there. After that, he went to Cleve and then the Clips. This year would have been the year for him to shine, until CP3 went there.
Either way, when he was the PG in Milwaukee, on bad teams, he was pretty good. Put him on this team, where he finally has a chance to be a PG again, I think it'd be nice. And he's a better passer than Devin, 100%. Just look at last seasons mid-season trade to the Clips. He was rolling over there.

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

I don't think Mo is a good fit for the Jazz, expecially not as a starting PG. In fact I don't think he's a good fit as a starting PG for most teams. He had his best years playing second fiddle to Lebron in Cleveland, he's not a great passer, he's not a guy who can control the tempo of a game... in fact he's a lot like Devin Harris, only he'd rather shoot a jumper than attack the rim. I like him as a backup/change of pace guy, but I don't think he's the answer as a starting PG.

I dont know, I think you guys are just looking at the situations he was put in. Not to mention, he'd rather shoot a jumper than attack the rim; since when is that a bad thing for this team???? Thats what we need.
I mean, throw out Cleveland first. He played with ball dominant Lebron. What else would he do besides be a shooter? Shoot, even Wade now is being corralled next to Lebron. Not to mention, have you forgotten his play in Milwaukee? He was averaging 6+ asts a night, and around 15pts per for 4 seasons, all while on average to bad teams there. After that, he went to Cleve and then the Clips. This year would have been the year for him to shine, until CP3 went there.
Either way, when he was the PG in Milwaukee, on bad teams, he was pretty good. Put him on this team, where he finally has a chance to be a PG again, I think it'd be nice. And he's a better passer than Devin, 100%. Just look at last seasons mid-season trade to the Clips. He was rolling over there.

That's what I was thinking! We need shooters. Not someone driving in where we already have 2-3 guys already in the paint. I think that's part of the problem Devin has in this system. The paint is always packed with our bigs and their defenders. That leaves very little room for a guy like Harris who's strength is driving the lane.

By almost every concievable measure Devin Harris >>> Mo Williams. I just don't really get why you would want to replace Harris with a guy who overall isn't an upgrade over Harris just to get some more shooting? I'd love to see Williams replace Watson, but if he's our starting PG we will have taken a step backwards.

TheMagnus wrote:

By almost every concievable measure Devin Harris >>> Mo Williams. I just don't really get why you would want to replace Harris with a guy who overall isn't an upgrade over Harris just to get some more shooting? I'd love to see Williams replace Watson, but if he's our starting PG we will have taken a step backwards.

I'd rather have Mo than Devin as the #2 PG. Mo would bring better outside shooting. I also think Mo is more willing to take the backup role, and would likely be less expensive.

I'm not happy with Harris as the Jazz' PG, but if we're talking about a starting PG gig, then I think Devin is a better choice than Mo. Devin is the overall better player IMO.

So I guess my choice between the two depends on what role the Jazz are trying to fill.

TheMagnus wrote:

By almost every concievable measure Devin Harris >>> Mo Williams. I just don't really get why you would want to replace Harris with a guy who overall isn't an upgrade over Harris just to get some more shooting? I'd love to see Williams replace Watson, but if he's our starting PG we will have taken a step backwards.

I dont know if you're just looking at numbers magnus, or what it is exactly, but I dont see how Devin is that much better than Mo. Other than Mo has been relegated to off and on start/bench/pull/push whatever, with no real role.
I'd look at them has about equal, except Mo is a much better outside shooter. What is Devin better than Mo at? Maybe a bit quicker when driving to the basket, but other than that.....

Harris actually shot the ball better than Mo this last season. And even When Harris isn't hitting 3's, he draws fouls at such a high rate that his TS% is equal to Mo's. Harris defensive stats are better, and they are pretty much the same when it comes to passing the ball. Harris career Per and WinScore are both higher than Williams. Maybe the triple arrow was a little excessive, but overall I have to give the advantage to Harris. He was better this year, and he's been better over their careers.

TheMagnus wrote:

Harris actually shot the ball better than Mo this last season. And even When Harris isn't hitting 3's, he draws fouls at such a high rate that his TS% is equal to Mo's. Harris defensive stats are better, and they are pretty much the same when it comes to passing the ball. Harris career Per and WinScore are both higher than Williams. Maybe the triple arrow was a little excessive, but overall I have to give the advantage to Harris. He was better this year, and he's been better over their careers.

I think the thing that sucks, is you really can't compare the two very well right now. Devin has been a starting PG, and because of the Clipper situation, Mo was thrust into a 6th man/scoring role, so they aren't even seeing the same type of court time and we really are comparing a PG to a 2guard. But Mo has steadfastly said he is a PG.

But either way, Devin may have shot better over all, by 2pct points that is, but Mo shot 2pct points better than Devin on 3's. Not to mention Devin got alot of his fg% from layups, while Mo got alot of his from jumpshots(Jazz anyone?) Then Mo shot 90% on FT's, compared to Devin's 75%. ugh. They both averaged a steal a game, and the same TO's. Devin averaged 5ast (in a passer friendly offense I'm sure we agree) compared to Mo's 3ast per in his 6th man role. Mo scored 13per game, and Devin 11 per game. Mo also played alot of minutes with backups too.
I think looking at it, Mo is the better player for this team. Devin's drives to the basket are an asset and useful, then again only hitting 3/4's of his ft's hurts that. Mo's jumpshooting also not only is useful, it helps open things up for everyone else. Also Mo would I think on this team, at a MINIMUM, be able to duplicate Devin's assist totals all while being a better 3pt shooter, (he did it while taking more of them). Personally from watching Clipper games, I think he's a better passer than Devin and while looking less to drive to the basket, he sees the court better. His jump shooting game cannot be understated as something this team definitely needs though.
Bottom line for me, they're fairly similar though I think we've seen the best of Devin's game and only a 6th man view of Mo. While being similar, if Mo was put on the Jazz he brings things Devin doesn't, and at least duplicates things Devin does. It wouldn't be a massive move to sign Mo and trade Devin, but I do believe it's an upgrade.

I haven't seen enough of Mo to know how comparable they are. If he indeed does duplicate Devin in most catagories then it's a no-brainer for KOC. Try to get Mo for less, trade Devin for a need- including a draft pick....... Perhaps to a bottom feeder that'll have a good pick would be ideal. Even if the current player they get is a bum- as long as he's a bum with an expiring contract would bring some worth for Devin.

That scenario above is classic KOC. Meaning, at least the team will be the same but having potential with a draft pick is good business.