Would you take Jimmer?

Mutangclan wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

No way is he worth that. Maybe he GS pick and Bell's contract that's it.

Besides don't we already have a version of him in Ahern? Yeah I know their game isn't excatly the same, but I don't see Fredette being that much if at all better than Blake. Both are good shooters but nothing more. I guess Jimmer would be better at creating his own shot. Either way I'll pass on Jimmer mania.

For THE GS PICK?????!!!! For Jimmer?????? WhAT????!! No way! You guys would give up a lottery pick PLUS other things for a guy who has shown at this point he shouldn't even have been a lottery pick???!!

Gotta agree. That would be to steep of a price to pay. I think Jimmer can still be a good role player, but not worth that.

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Jimmer had a real solid game tonight. Looks like both he and his teammates are getting more comfortable with his game.

But enough about Jimmer, how about Damian Lillard? Holy crap man, that dude is killing the summer league. Averaging 28 pts, 4 rebounds, and 4 assists on 44/40/80 shooting in 34 minutes a game.

Really, really, wish that guy was on our team....

I know man Lilliard is killing, doing it all as a brand new rookie out of Weber St, ughhhhhhhhhh, GS tanking killed us. Even that GD coin toss could have gone our way......UGH!!!!

That still wouldn't have got us Lillard, but it might have got us Harrison Barnes...

Mutangclan wrote:

Sampaguy wrote:

The question I have asked is Fredette an improvement over Earl? I believe so.

Sampa, how can you say that Fredette is an improvement over Earl??? At Earls worst, he doesn't do much on the court, doesn't help, doesn't hurt. IMO, Earl plays above average defense, knows how to run an offense, and is a smart vet.

What does Jimmer do????

I know we all loved and still love Earl, he is what we love from a Jazz man, hustles, leads by example and plays with a ton of heart. But I look at it this way, he's 33 (I think), Jamal Tinsley is 34. How many more years can these guys go on? The improvement I talk about comes from youth and the fact that I believe Jimmer is a better basketball player than he's shown. All those things you said about Earl I believe Fredette can learn, IN THE RIGHT SYSTEM.

We may not even need to trade Earl, I just think that if the price is right (as mentioned here) we should go for it. Sell some tickets, hope for the best. It's a bet I suppose.

TheMagnus wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Jimmer had a real solid game tonight. Looks like both he and his teammates are getting more comfortable with his game.

But enough about Jimmer, how about Damian Lillard? Holy crap man, that dude is killing the summer league. Averaging 28 pts, 4 rebounds, and 4 assists on 44/40/80 shooting in 34 minutes a game.

Really, really, wish that guy was on our team....

I know man Lilliard is killing, doing it all as a brand new rookie out of Weber St, ughhhhhhhhhh, GS tanking killed us. Even that GD coin toss could have gone our way......UGH!!!!

That still wouldn't have got us Lillard, but it might have got us Harrison Barnes...

Barnes was picked #7 and Lillard #8. So he Jazz would have had their choice.

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Jimmer had a real solid game tonight. Looks like both he and his teammates are getting more comfortable with his game.

But enough about Jimmer, how about Damian Lillard? Holy crap man, that dude is killing the summer league. Averaging 28 pts, 4 rebounds, and 4 assists on 44/40/80 shooting in 34 minutes a game.

Really, really, wish that guy was on our team....

I know man Lilliard is killing, doing it all as a brand new rookie out of Weber St, ughhhhhhhhhh, GS tanking killed us. Even that GD coin toss could have gone our way......UGH!!!!

That still wouldn't have got us Lillard, but it might have got us Harrison Barnes...

Barnes was picked #7 and Lillard #8. So he Jazz would have had their choice.

Nah, LIllard was 6th to Portland, Ross was 8 to Toronto.

But had we ended up in the draft, you know KOC would have done what they needed to get Lillard. Portland was talking to everyone leading up to that pick........but forget it!!! Too depressing!

Sampaguy wrote:

I know we all loved and still love Earl...

Not me

Sampaguy wrote:

We may not even need to trade Earl...

May be not you rough man lovers but I need to trade his gorgeous a$$

So his strength coming out of college was scoring. Right? He shot below 40% last year. What does he do well? I dont live in Utah, so ive never been into the jimmer madness.

I am required to vote no on this but I am also not very worried about is since KO isn't trading for him anytime soon.

I dunno man, didn't Jimmer score like a thousand points in a college game? In the other thread, on SL Trib, we went over Jimmer making it as a pro more than Lindsey Lohan........ looks like it'll never happen, but, never say never.

This thread has merit though. How many games did the Jazz sellout last yr? Lets weigh that against what Watson brings to the table.. Will Watson help the Jazz win a few games that'll help them make the playoffs? Possibly, or perhaps a more accurate pronostication is yes.

Will Jimmer help the Jazz now more than Watson. IMO, no.

Will Watsons helping the Jazz, perhaps, win a few more games to help them make the playoffs (thus making more money for the Jazz) outweigh the potential Jimmer has as a pro if he were to play for the Jazz? IMO yes.

I defended Jimmer (a little) on the last extensive thread that he could be a journeyman before he was drafted and played with the big boys. After seeing Thomas make more of an impact on the Kings than Jimmer I just don't think Jimmers pros outweigh his cons.

Yes it would be great if we got him, the Jazz sold out every game, and Jimmer became a solid player. Still..... because of his lack of speed and size he'll be under-average as a defender and his potential is limited....

outerspacefan wrote:

Sampaguy wrote:

I know we all loved and still love Earl...

Not me

Sampaguy wrote:

We may not even need to trade Earl...

May be not you rough man lovers but I need to trade his gorgeous a$$

lol..

aliveandkickin wrote:

I dunno man, didn't Jimmer score like a thousand points in a college game? In the other thread, on SL Trib, we went over Jimmer making it as a pro more than Lindsey Lohan........ looks like it'll never happen, but, never say never.

This thread has merit though. How many games did the Jazz sellout last yr? Lets weigh that against what Watson brings to the table.. Will Watson help the Jazz win a few games that'll help them make the playoffs? Possibly, or perhaps a more accurate pronostication is yes.

Will Jimmer help the Jazz now more than Watson. IMO, no.

Will Watsons helping the Jazz, perhaps, win a few more games to help them make the playoffs (thus making more money for the Jazz) outweigh the potential Jimmer has as a pro if he were to play for the Jazz? IMO yes.

I defended Jimmer (a little) on the last extensive thread that he could be a journeyman before he was drafted and played with the big boys. After seeing Thomas make more of an impact on the Kings than Jimmer I just don't think Jimmers pros outweigh his cons.

Yes it would be great if we got him, the Jazz sold out every game, and Jimmer became a solid player. Still..... because of his lack of speed and size he'll be under-average as a defender and his potential is limited....

Well think of it this way. Can Earl and Tinsley continue to give us what they do and if so for how long?

I think our back up situation will get worse as the season progresses, either Tinsley or Watson might complain about lack of playing time. Earl will keep hustling and throwing those great alley oops and Tinsley will run things better than Earl but will be a liability on defense. This of course will progressively get worst as age and injuries become a factor and that the fact that we all praise these guys but stats wise they are similar to Jimmer's per 36 min stats.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=watsoea01&y1=2012&p2=tinslja01&y2=2012&p3=fredeji01&y3=2012#per_minute::none

It doesn't even have to be Jimmer but someone younger who can learn within the system, whose confidence can steadily move up and be an effective backup, someone like that hasn't come along since Howard Eisley.

That's my take anyways.

Sampaguy wrote:

It doesn't even have to be Jimmer but someone younger who can learn within the system, whose confidence can steadily move up and be an effective backup, someone like that hasn't come along since Howard Eisley.

That's my take anyways.

I think you're right. But that guy wasn't and isn't available yet. I personally thought Machado would have been a good choice, but Houston got him. We've got two good years left at a minimum with Mo, but probably more. We've got at least another full season in both our backups.
I'm not too pressed since thats the situation, and if it's just the backup pg we're concerned with, well, I've never felt those are too hard to find.

I would take jimmer in a heartbeat for watson, If you run the offence right by hitting jimmer off scenes and drop down and pitch it back out with the bigs JF could be a top sixth man in the league and a lights out shooter. Kings suck about like the hawks did with marvin in the offence they run for him, or lack there of. One thing with jimmer in the game he'll keep the D from sagging off and down on the Bigs.
Right now i'd trade GSW pick straight across for JF just because i think that pick is gonna suck in the next draft. GSW can stay healthy i think they stand a real good chance at making the playoffs.

Richardale wrote:

I would take jimmer in a heartbeat for watson, If you run the offence right by hitting jimmer off scenes and drop down and pitch it back out with the bigs JF could be a top sixth man in the league and a lights out shooter. Kings suck about like the hawks did with marvin in the offence they run for him, or lack there of. One thing with jimmer in the game he'll keep the D from sagging off and down on the Bigs.
Right now i'd trade GSW pick straight across for JF just because i think that pick is gonna suck in the next draft. GSW can stay healthy i think they stand a real good chance at making the playoffs.

Jimmer just shot 30% in Summer League. Summer League. Not only that, but 5 for 29 on 3ptrs. Thats like 18% or something.

Richardale wrote:

Right now i'd trade GSW pick straight across for JF just because i think that pick is gonna suck in the next draft. GSW can stay healthy i think they stand a real good chance at making the playoffs.

Listen to yourself. You think Bogut and Curry can stay healthy?

Mutangclan wrote:

Richardale wrote:

I would take jimmer in a heartbeat for watson, If you run the offence right by hitting jimmer off scenes and drop down and pitch it back out with the bigs JF could be a top sixth man in the league and a lights out shooter. Kings suck about like the hawks did with marvin in the offence they run for him, or lack there of. One thing with jimmer in the game he'll keep the D from sagging off and down on the Bigs.
Right now i'd trade GSW pick straight across for JF just because i think that pick is gonna suck in the next draft. GSW can stay healthy i think they stand a real good chance at making the playoffs.

Jimmer just shot 30% in Summer League. Summer League. Not only that, but 5 for 29 on 3ptrs. Thats like 18% or something.

I had him at 36% and 22% respectively over 5 games.

But if you take out an awful first two games where he still hadn't got his confidence back, and just count the last three games when he said, "Flip this! I'm MOTHERFETCHING Jimmer Fredette! It's Jimmer time!!!" (thanks Troll) he shot a much more respectable 42% from the field, 33% from the 3pt line, averaged 23 points on 20 shots (1.15 PPS), 4 rebounds, 4 assists, and 3 turnovers, in 31 minutes a game.

So lets compare that to someone we know....say, Alec Burks....

Taking away Burks sub-par first game and just going with his solid last 4 games, he shot 45% from the field, 14% from the 3 pt line, averaged 19 points on 16 shots (1.19 PPS), 4 rebounds, and 2 assists, and 2 turnovers, in 29 minutes a game.

Just sayin....

Mutangclan wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Jimmer had a real solid game tonight. Looks like both he and his teammates are getting more comfortable with his game.

But enough about Jimmer, how about Damian Lillard? Holy crap man, that dude is killing the summer league. Averaging 28 pts, 4 rebounds, and 4 assists on 44/40/80 shooting in 34 minutes a game.

Really, really, wish that guy was on our team....

I know man Lilliard is killing, doing it all as a brand new rookie out of Weber St, ughhhhhhhhhh, GS tanking killed us. Even that GD coin toss could have gone our way......UGH!!!!

That still wouldn't have got us Lillard, but it might have got us Harrison Barnes...

Barnes was picked #7 and Lillard #8. So he Jazz would have had their choice.

Nah, LIllard was 6th to Portland, Ross was 8 to Toronto.

But had we ended up in the draft, you know KOC would have done what they needed to get Lillard. Portland was talking to everyone leading up to that pick........but forget it!!! Too depressing!

You're right... my bad.

I looked on ESPN for draft recap and saw Chris Fords Big Board, where Lillard is ranked #8. I failed to look at the actual draft order.

Mutangclan wrote:

Sampaguy wrote:

It doesn't even have to be Jimmer but someone younger who can learn within the system, whose confidence can steadily move up and be an effective backup, someone like that hasn't come along since Howard Eisley.

That's my take anyways.

I think you're right. But that guy wasn't and isn't available yet. I personally thought Machado would have been a good choice, but Houston got him. We've got two good years left at a minimum with Mo, but probably more. We've got at least another full season in both our backups.
I'm not too pressed since thats the situation, and if it's just the backup pg we're concerned with, well, I've never felt those are too hard to find.

I like Machado, then again I like anyone from my country...lol

While I agree on your assessment I still think under the right system (Jazz system) and playing under Earl or Jamal he can grow and be a good player, people always make the argument that college ball is so much different, yeah it's different but at the end of the day the ball has to go through the hoop. Shooters are a commodity. Give his confidence back and he will hit those shots.

The backup pg situation may not be a concern now but I think it'll be, like you said it may be a few years so we might as well start getting ready for it.

TheMagnus wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Jimmer just shot 30% in Summer League. Summer League. Not only that, but 5 for 29 on 3ptrs. Thats like 18% or something.

I had him at 36% and 22% respectively over 5 games.

But if you take out an awful first two games where he still hadn't got his confidence back, and just count the last three games when he said, "Flip this! I'm MOTHERFETCHING Jimmer Fredette! It's Jimmer time!!!" (thanks Troll) he shot a much more respectable 42% from the field, 33% from the 3pt line, averaged 23 points on 20 shots (1.15 PPS), 4 rebounds, 4 assists, and 3 turnovers, in 31 minutes a game.

So lets compare that to someone we know....say, Alec Burks....

Taking away Burks sub-par first game and just going with his solid last 4 games, he shot 45% from the field, 14% from the 3 pt line, averaged 19 points on 16 shots (1.19 PPS), 4 rebounds, and 2 assists, and 2 turnovers, in 29 minutes a game.

Just sayin....

When I look at the Kings and what they have tried to do over the last 3 to 4 season's I see a team that just can't make up it mind on what direction it wants to go, in 1 season they picked a kid that turned out to be the ROY and said that he was going to be their starting PG for many years to come but the next season they brought in a free agent player that took the starting 2 guard spot from him and another rookie PG that also took the starting job and that moved him to the SF position. I really see why Jimmer has had a hard time finding his spot on that team but the thing is when they drafted him they was bringing him on for his shooting ability not for running the team like I said they was thinking they had their guy for that but things just did not work out for them. Jimmers big time skill in the NBA is his shooting ability and that is what he is going to make his money doing there has been a lot of players who are specialist at one thing or another in the league that has been able to make a good living doing it and I feel when it is all said and done Jimmer will be making his from hitting outside shot stretching the defense and maybe along the way he will learn the skills it takes to run a team that will allow him to be a decent starting PG in the NBA lets face it he more than likely will never be good enough at running a team to become the starting PG but he does have the skills to become a pretty good back-up the way I see it but it looks like he needs to go to another team before he will be able to find his best game.

dongibby wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Jimmer just shot 30% in Summer League. Summer League. Not only that, but 5 for 29 on 3ptrs. Thats like 18% or something.

I had him at 36% and 22% respectively over 5 games.

But if you take out an awful first two games where he still hadn't got his confidence back, and just count the last three games when he said, "Flip this! I'm MOTHERFETCHING Jimmer Fredette! It's Jimmer time!!!" (thanks Troll) he shot a much more respectable 42% from the field, 33% from the 3pt line, averaged 23 points on 20 shots (1.15 PPS), 4 rebounds, 4 assists, and 3 turnovers, in 31 minutes a game.

So lets compare that to someone we know....say, Alec Burks....

Taking away Burks sub-par first game and just going with his solid last 4 games, he shot 45% from the field, 14% from the 3 pt line, averaged 19 points on 16 shots (1.19 PPS), 4 rebounds, and 2 assists, and 2 turnovers, in 29 minutes a game.

Just sayin....

When I look at the Kings and what they have tried to do over the last 3 to 4 season's I see a team that just can't make up it mind on what direction it wants to go, in 1 season they picked a kid that turned out to be the ROY and said that he was going to be their starting PG for many years to come but the next season they brought in a free agent player that took the starting 2 guard spot from him and another rookie PG that also took the starting job and that moved him to the SF position. I really see why Jimmer has had a hard time finding his spot on that team but the thing is when they drafted him they was bringing him on for his shooting ability not for running the team like I said they was thinking they had their guy for that but things just did not work out for them. Jimmers big time skill in the NBA is his shooting ability and that is what he is going to make his money doing there has been a lot of players who are specialist at one thing or another in the league that has been able to make a good living doing it and I feel when it is all said and done Jimmer will be making his from hitting outside shot stretching the defense and maybe along the way he will learn the skills it takes to run a team that will allow him to be a decent starting PG in the NBA lets face it he more than likely will never be good enough at running a team to become the starting PG but he does have the skills to become a pretty good back-up the way I see it but it looks like he needs to go to another team before he will be able to find his best game.

My thoughts exactly. It's always so much about the system and it's stability. We take for granted how well the Jazz are ran (not perfect but better then the Kings). I am pretty sure Jimmer would do better here, or a place like San Antonio. You are right. He is a specialist, get him confidence and i agree that he can be hit those shots and be a good player in the NBA.

therawns wrote:

Richardale wrote:

Right now i'd trade GSW pick straight across for JF just because i think that pick is gonna suck in the next draft. GSW can stay healthy i think they stand a real good chance at making the playoffs.

Listen to yourself. You think Bogut and Curry can stay healthy?

Lol yea, because thats the luck the jazz has had lately. I think next year your looking at a 50 win team with GSW,

therawns wrote:

Richardale wrote:

Right now i'd trade GSW pick straight across for JF just because i think that pick is gonna suck in the next draft. GSW can stay healthy i think they stand a real good chance at making the playoffs.

Listen to yourself. You think Bogut and Curry can stay healthy?

\

Your sharp Therawn. Whats your take going into next year with GSW? Both players will be well rested and you know A Bogut will have a chip on his shoulder and something to prove to there fans.

If Jimmer gets his confidence back he can indeed become a one-trick NBA pony, the shooter who can't guard a paper bag blowing by. On most good teams that failure on D will negate him ever going head-to-head with the opponents starting PG, sending him to the backup PG position forever, (where I think he could make for a long career in the NBA). That said, look at Nash and Kidd, neither of those guys could play legit D right out of college but they were such students of the game, and hard workers, they at least got their D up to "not embarrassing" and more than made up for that on the other end of the floor. The difference between Jimmer and them, however, is those guys had uncanny game feel and passing skills. Jimmer is a volume shooter who would work out great if he had the size of a SG, but he's too small to make it at SG and he was never asked to rack assists and run a team in his college days -- steep learning curve on that in NBA game time.

I will keep in mind, however, that when Jimmer got picked KOC mentioned he was higher on their board than where he got picked. Since KOC is way better than me at judging potential talent, I would guess that they felt the Jimmer could be coached into something special. Fer instance, D-will did not necessarily blow me away his rookie season, (though he did shine a bit brighter than Mr. Kanter's), but he sure as hell came on strong in years 2 and 3. End of the day they aren't going to let Jimmer go for a price where most teams can develop him from the 3rd string PG slot.

Richardale wrote:

therawns wrote:

Richardale wrote:

Right now i'd trade GSW pick straight across for JF just because i think that pick is gonna suck in the next draft. GSW can stay healthy i think they stand a real good chance at making the playoffs.

Listen to yourself. You think Bogut and Curry can stay healthy?

\

Your sharp Therawn. Whats your take going into next year with GSW? Both players will be well rested and you know A Bogut will have a chip on his shoulder and something to prove to there fans.

Curry's ankles are made of glass. Bogut has played 70+ games twice. You have not even mentioned arguably their best player. Klay Thompson. If they can stay healthy, they battle for a playoff spot. I just dont trust Curry or Bogut to do that. (BTW ill be doing power rankings in about a week. I have not really sat down to analyze them all that much in my free time.)

therawns wrote:

Richardale wrote:

therawns wrote:

Richardale wrote:

Right now i'd trade GSW pick straight across for JF just because i think that pick is gonna suck in the next draft. GSW can stay healthy i think they stand a real good chance at making the playoffs.

Listen to yourself. You think Bogut and Curry can stay healthy?

\

Your sharp Therawn. Whats your take going into next year with GSW? Both players will be well rested and you know A Bogut will have a chip on his shoulder and something to prove to there fans.

Curry's ankles are made of glass. Bogut has played 70+ games twice. You have not even mentioned arguably their best player. Klay Thompson. If they can stay healthy, they battle for a playoff spot. I just dont trust Curry or Bogut to do that. (BTW ill be doing power rankings in about a week. I have not really sat down to analyze them all that much in my free time.)

If id have to put a guess on the rankings, just putting in the west, here it goes, without really looking at additions/subtractions on a website, and doing it at the top of my head.

1. OKC
2. SA
3. Lak ers
4. Memphis
5. Clippers
6. Denver
7. Utah
8. Dallas

Is GS better than any of them? Dallas has carlisle as the coach, that could bump them up. I can very easily see the standings being like they were in 2007-08 or 2009-10 where the west was jam packed and everyday it seemed like you win you climb up 2 spots, you lose you lose 2 spots.