Another move coming soon?

Right now, the Jazz have 14 players under contract. This does not count Kevin Murphy. So why would they be talking to Josh Howard? If they sign him, no way they can keep Murphy, unless another move is made, plus they usually only like having 14 players.

The other thing is this gives bell leverage if they signed howard. Bell can then look at Utah and say, you need to waive me, (which means he get all the money), in order to keep Murphy if they like him. Utah has the leverage by saying, they can hold onto him and not be hurt all that much.

From the outside talking to Howard makes no sense, especially if there is not another move coming.

Like discussed in another thread, I dont think there's any way in hell Utah is talking with Howard. It's just his agent trying to build up hope and $$'s for Josh by saying Utah is interested, KNOWING, that KOC wont comment on it anyway. I'm sure Murphy is here to stay, as is Bell until he's moved to Milwaukee or Toronto.

I would be shopping Millsap and or the GS draft pick for a big time point guard, if one doesn't come up, stand pat.

Mutangclan wrote:

Like discussed in another thread, I dont think there's any way in hell Utah is talking with Howard. It's just his agent trying to build up hope and $$'s for Josh by saying Utah is interested, KNOWING, that KOC wont comment on it anyway. I'm sure Murphy is here to stay, as is Bell until he's moved to Milwaukee or Toronto.

What he said for the most part. I think Murphy only has to show he is worth DND's and some development team potential to make the roster. And who knows, (we don't yet), he could be the next Wes Matthews, but we won't have a bead until training camp or beyond.

MTJazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Like discussed in another thread, I dont think there's any way in hell Utah is talking with Howard. It's just his agent trying to build up hope and $$'s for Josh by saying Utah is interested, KNOWING, that KOC wont comment on it anyway. I'm sure Murphy is here to stay, as is Bell until he's moved to Milwaukee or Toronto.

What he said for the most part. I think Murphy only has to show he is worth DND's and some development team potential to make the roster. And who knows, (we don't yet), he could be the next Wes Matthews, but we won't have a bead until training camp or beyond.

He could be the next Wes Matthews, or someone else could be. Remember, Utah drafted Goran Sutan from Michigan State, and they cut him in order to keep matthews.

rorybreaker wrote:

I would be shopping Millsap and or the GS draft pick for a big time point guard, if one doesn't come up, stand pat.

The pick is the thing that keeps coming to mind. We were all bummed when Utah did not get the pick. However, we all love the offseason Utah has had.

Utah has been linked to Andre Igguadala. Hypothetically, let's say Philly is not playing well. (They did lose the 1-2 punch off the bench, that made them good. Young is now a starter though.) Who says no to Iguadala for marvin williams, bell (to even the salaries), and the GS pick for Iggy? Philly cuts 4 million, and Marvin's player option is 7 mil less then iggy's next season. Iggy at 15 million is overpaid, but Utah can swallow it for a year. Just imagine the defense with Hayward, Iggy, and Favors on the floor.

I have always looked at the GS pick as a valuable trading piece rather than a good pick. Now, GS tanking hurts the value, but you catch my drift. I still give KOC an A in the offseason, and he kept the ace in his pocket.

therawns wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Like discussed in another thread, I dont think there's any way in hell Utah is talking with Howard. It's just his agent trying to build up hope and $$'s for Josh by saying Utah is interested, KNOWING, that KOC wont comment on it anyway. I'm sure Murphy is here to stay, as is Bell until he's moved to Milwaukee or Toronto.

What he said for the most part. I think Murphy only has to show he is worth DND's and some development team potential to make the roster. And who knows, (we don't yet), he could be the next Wes Matthews, but we won't have a bead until training camp or beyond.

He could be the next Wes Matthews, or someone else could be. Remember, Utah drafted Goran Sutan from Michigan State, and they cut him in order to keep matthews.

good point, very good one. Trust in KOC!

therawns wrote:

rorybreaker wrote:

I would be shopping Millsap and or the GS draft pick for a big time point guard, if one doesn't come up, stand pat.

The pick is the thing that keeps coming to mind. We were all bummed when Utah did not get the pick. However, we all love the offseason Utah has had.

Utah has been linked to Andre Igguadala. Hypothetically, let's say Philly is not playing well. (They did lose the 1-2 punch off the bench, that made them good. Young is now a starter though.) Who says no to Iguadala for marvin williams, bell (to even the salaries), and the GS pick for Iggy? Philly cuts 4 million, and Marvin's player option is 7 mil less then iggy's next season. Iggy at 15 million is overpaid, but Utah can swallow it for a year. Just imagine the defense with Hayward, Iggy, and Favors on the floor.

I have always looked at the GS pick as a valuable trading piece rather than a good pick. Now, GS tanking hurts the value, but you catch my drift. I still give KOC an A in the offseason, and he kept the ace in his pocket.

So what big time Guard?
And Marv, Bell, and GS pick for half a year of Iggy?

Mutangclan wrote:

therawns wrote:

rorybreaker wrote:

I would be shopping Millsap and or the GS draft pick for a big time point guard, if one doesn't come up, stand pat.

The pick is the thing that keeps coming to mind. We were all bummed when Utah did not get the pick. However, we all love the offseason Utah has had.

Utah has been linked to Andre Igguadala. Hypothetically, let's say Philly is not playing well. (They did lose the 1-2 punch off the bench, that made them good. Young is now a starter though.) Who says no to Iguadala for marvin williams, bell (to even the salaries), and the GS pick for Iggy? Philly cuts 4 million, and Marvin's player option is 7 mil less then iggy's next season. Iggy at 15 million is overpaid, but Utah can swallow it for a year. Just imagine the defense with Hayward, Iggy, and Favors on the floor.

I have always looked at the GS pick as a valuable trading piece rather than a good pick. Now, GS tanking hurts the value, but you catch my drift. I still give KOC an A in the offseason, and he kept the ace in his pocket.

So what big time Guard?
And Marv, Bell, and GS pick for half a year of Iggy?

It would be a year and a half. No way iggy opts out of his contract next year at 15 mil.

What PG's would you like? Would you package Millsap and the pick, for a PG?

I think trading millsap wil be complicated for multiple reasons.

First, is you probably need a PF back. Is Evans good enough to be counted on for rotation minutes? If you trade Millsap and to go with what you are saying, just get a PG, that front line is now really thin. According to stats, Williams was better at SF then PF last season.

Is Kanter ready to be the primary big off the bench? Kanter had 13 minutes last year. I want to see that increase, but not to 20+ minutes. Plus, a Kanter Jefferson pairing is just a bad mix. Last to go along here is what happens if Jefferson gets hurt? Kanter a starter is a scary thought at this stage of his career.

This is why I do not see Millsap being traded by himself. Which then gives the Jazz the problem of not having enough roster spots. Now, maybe the Jazz give up Watson/Tinsley or Bell along with Millsap. This is not really an issue at all, but just an observation.

Another reason why it is complicated is because he has rejected a 3 year 25 million deal. How much more does he want? That is a very reasonable offer. This is a two-fold problem. One, the other team is getting an expiring contract, but Millsap is actually a good player. You don't trade for Millsap because he has an expiring contract. You trade for him, because you want the player. The team acquiring Millsap would want to keep him, and he could bolt after the season.

You also have to think he is worth more than 8 mil per year. To me Millsap is in the 8-9 million per year range. I doubt a lot of teams are willing to offer him much more than Utah offered him. If you are willing to offer him, say 10 mil per year, then why trade for him? Why not wait till after the season, and just sign him?

This is why I think trading Millsap is more complicated then any of us think it is.

therawns wrote:

You also have to think he is worth more than 8 mil per year. To me Millsap is in the 8-9 million per year range. I doubt a lot of teams are willing to offer him much more than Utah offered him. If you are willing to offer him, say 10 mil per year, then why trade for him? Why not wait till after the season, and just sign him?

This is why I think trading Millsap is more complicated then any of us think it is.

Because as UFA he will haul down way more than your numbers. The Jazz cannot re-sign him for "what he is worth" in the open market, ergo, the Jazz must move him if he won't accept a reasonable "below market value" extension. That is just smart chess and I believe the FO gets that.

MTJazz wrote:

therawns wrote:

You also have to think he is worth more than 8 mil per year. To me Millsap is in the 8-9 million per year range. I doubt a lot of teams are willing to offer him much more than Utah offered him. If you are willing to offer him, say 10 mil per year, then why trade for him? Why not wait till after the season, and just sign him?

This is why I think trading Millsap is more complicated then any of us think it is.

Because as UFA he will haul down way more than your numbers. The Jazz cannot re-sign him for "what he is worth" in the open market, ergo, the Jazz must move him if he won't accept a reasonable "below market value" extension. That is just smart chess and I believe the FO gets that.

You helped illustrate the problem. If the Jazz need to move him now, in order to get something for him, don't other teams know this? Don't forget sign-and-trade is a possibility. (Remember, Boozer was sign-and-traded for a trade exception. The best option might be to sign-and-trade after the season.)

therawns wrote:

rorybreaker wrote:

I would be shopping Millsap and or the GS draft pick for a big time point guard, if one doesn't come up, stand pat.

The pick is the thing that keeps coming to mind. We were all bummed when Utah did not get the pick. However, we all love the offseason Utah has had.

Utah has been linked to Andre Igguadala. Hypothetically, let's say Philly is not playing well. (They did lose the 1-2 punch off the bench, that made them good. Young is now a starter though.) Who says no to Iguadala for marvin williams, bell (to even the salaries), and the GS pick for Iggy? Philly cuts 4 million, and Marvin's player option is 7 mil less then iggy's next season. Iggy at 15 million is overpaid, but Utah can swallow it for a year. Just imagine the defense with Hayward, Iggy, and Favors on the floor.

I have always looked at the GS pick as a valuable trading piece rather than a good pick. Now, GS tanking hurts the value, but you catch my drift. I still give KOC an A in the offseason, and he kept the ace in his pocket.

Never have been big on Iggy and really hate his contract. I do like the thought process behind going for a big piece instead of a bunch of small ones. Josh Howard coming back, really? Keep it simple and go for a home run.

If there is a big move it could be pretty interesting. Some combination of AL or Mill with Raja Expiring and the GS pick should be worth a star player. But, as discussed on other threads and here, a serviceable big would be needed to replace the big we gave up, (presumably a back-up), so that "star" player ain't gonna be a Big Star -- just not enough assets to get both a decent big and a game changer. This leads me to expect that there is not in fact a big move coming, that the GS pick, Mr. Expiring and maybe Watson or Tinsley get turned into an interesting prospect, either a big guy or a shooter. The real fire works will start next season or perhaps in Feb if for some reason it is real clear that Mill won't take an extension. Tricky shit, this GM stuff, its never obvious unless you have an endlessly deep pocketed owner.

rorybreaker wrote:

therawns wrote:

rorybreaker wrote:

I would be shopping Millsap and or the GS draft pick for a big time point guard, if one doesn't come up, stand pat.

The pick is the thing that keeps coming to mind. We were all bummed when Utah did not get the pick. However, we all love the offseason Utah has had.

Utah has been linked to Andre Igguadala. Hypothetically, let's say Philly is not playing well. (They did lose the 1-2 punch off the bench, that made them good. Young is now a starter though.) Who says no to Iguadala for marvin williams, bell (to even the salaries), and the GS pick for Iggy? Philly cuts 4 million, and Marvin's player option is 7 mil less then iggy's next season. Iggy at 15 million is overpaid, but Utah can swallow it for a year. Just imagine the defense with Hayward, Iggy, and Favors on the floor.

I have always looked at the GS pick as a valuable trading piece rather than a good pick. Now, GS tanking hurts the value, but you catch my drift. I still give KOC an A in the offseason, and he kept the ace in his pocket.

Never have been big on Iggy and really hate his contract. I do like the thought process behind going for a big piece instead of a bunch of small ones. Josh Howard coming back, really? Keep it simple and go for a home run.

Well Iggy is going to Denver in a trade involving the Lakers who will be getting Howard, the Magic who is getting Arron Afflalo, Al Harrington, Nikola Vucevic, rookie swingman Moe Harkless and three first-round draft picks and Sixers who is getting Andrew Bynum along with Jason Richardson from what is being reported so Iggy is off the table for a trade.

It looks like Denver is over stocked with SF's now so if the Jazz are looking to make a trade I would not mind seeing them trade for Wilson Chandler and Timofey Mozgov using the GS pick, Watson and Mar Williams if it could get done but not Milsap at this point in time I think the Jazz needs to wait to see how things shake out before they start thinking about trading him.

dongibby wrote:

It looks like Denver is over stocked with SF's now so if the Jazz are looking to make a trade I would not mind seeing them trade for Wilson Chandler and Timofey Mozgov using the GS pick, Watson and Mar Williams if it could get done but not Milsap at this point in time I think the Jazz needs to wait to see how things shake out before they start thinking about trading him.

I agree with you Don, I'd like to see that. I've liked Wilson Chandler for quite some time. And I think Mozgov is a good backup to starter quality center. I wonder if something will happen, because as far as I know, Denver doesn't really even have a PF. But right now I think Marv and Wilson are pretty much the same skill level player. Though Marv may now have more potential coming to a team that actually will use him correctly.

Mutangclan wrote:

dongibby wrote:

It looks like Denver is over stocked with SF's now so if the Jazz are looking to make a trade I would not mind seeing them trade for Wilson Chandler and Timofey Mozgov using the GS pick, Watson and Mar Williams if it could get done but not Milsap at this point in time I think the Jazz needs to wait to see how things shake out before they start thinking about trading him.

I agree with you Don, I'd like to see that. I've liked Wilson Chandler for quite some time. And I think Mozgov is a good backup to starter quality center. I wonder if something will happen, because as far as I know, Denver doesn't really even have a PF. But right now I think Marv and Wilson are pretty much the same skill level player. Though Marv may now have more potential coming to a team that actually will use him correctly.

Soooooo ... how long until Denver can trade Iggy?

Paul, Watson and Bell for Iggy and Mozgov

Denver desperately needs a PF, right?

zero24gravity wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

dongibby wrote:

It looks like Denver is over stocked with SF's now so if the Jazz are looking to make a trade I would not mind seeing them trade for Wilson Chandler and Timofey Mozgov using the GS pick, Watson and Mar Williams if it could get done but not Milsap at this point in time I think the Jazz needs to wait to see how things shake out before they start thinking about trading him.

I agree with you Don, I'd like to see that. I've liked Wilson Chandler for quite some time. And I think Mozgov is a good backup to starter quality center. I wonder if something will happen, because as far as I know, Denver doesn't really even have a PF. But right now I think Marv and Wilson are pretty much the same skill level player. Though Marv may now have more potential coming to a team that actually will use him correctly.

Soooooo ... how long until Denver can trade Iggy?

Paul, Watson and Bell for Iggy and Mozgov

Denver desperately needs a PF, right?

Looking at the RealGM trade checker the Jazz would have to trade Paul, Watson and Bell just to get Iggy and I am not so sure he would be worth all of that so with that I think it would be best for the Jazz if they went after Wilson Chandler & Timofey Mozgov for Marv Williams, Watson if they could get Denver to go for it, if they had to add the GS pick to get it done I think I would still do it.

zero24gravity wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

dongibby wrote:

It looks like Denver is over stocked with SF's now so if the Jazz are looking to make a trade I would not mind seeing them trade for Wilson Chandler and Timofey Mozgov using the GS pick, Watson and Mar Williams if it could get done but not Milsap at this point in time I think the Jazz needs to wait to see how things shake out before they start thinking about trading him.

I agree with you Don, I'd like to see that. I've liked Wilson Chandler for quite some time. And I think Mozgov is a good backup to starter quality center. I wonder if something will happen, because as far as I know, Denver doesn't really even have a PF. But right now I think Marv and Wilson are pretty much the same skill level player. Though Marv may now have more potential coming to a team that actually will use him correctly.

Soooooo ... how long until Denver can trade Iggy?

Paul, Watson and Bell for Iggy and Mozgov

Denver desperately needs a PF, right?

Throw in a couple unprotected first round picks and they might consider that. You really need Jefferson's contract and skills to make a trade for Iggy work. Millsap gets paid about half of what Iggy does and with Iggy being more combo forward than wing he's too close to him in terms of position.

Denver just got a massive upgrade though, holy crap, Denver and Philly made out like bandits in that deal if you ask me.

Denver traded Afflalo, Harrington, a protected first round pick and a second rounder for Iggy.

Philly traded Iggy, Moe Harkless, Nikola Vucevic, and a protected first round pick for Bynum and Jason Richardson.

I thought Denver was just treading water this off-season until that, what a great move.

I must be missing something here. Or everybody else missed Gordon Hayward last year. You know that Gordon Hayward, the guy who only made great strides in his second year, proved to be a terrific multi-position defender, contributed in every way possible and now has added some bulk to the existing skillset? That guy? And we HAVE to get somebody at SG and SF to take minutes away from him?

Man, I was excited to see him break out this year, and I don't want to see him losing minutes to Marv or Foye at all. (though that's a huge upgrade over losing minutes to CJ, Raja or Howard, init? )

Burks has got to get his minutes and if matchups allow us to play the "Super Big Friends" lineup (Big Al/Millsap/Favors), we should do it, with or without GH at SG, but aside from that, GH has got to play. A lot.

Aw yeh. Mah bwoys gonna tap that "potential" baby. Tap it like a ^$%# *&^%ing a &%@#er. From be-HIND, knowuddamean?*

*-clicked "Urban" on the translator addin. sry.

Trollificus wrote:

I must be missing something here. Or everybody else missed Gordon Hayward last year. You know that Gordon Hayward, the guy who only made great strides in his second year, proved to be a terrific multi-position defender, contributed in every way possible and now has added some bulk to the existing skillset? That guy? And we HAVE to get somebody at SG and SF to take minutes away from him?

Man, I was excited to see him break out this year, and I don't want to see him losing minutes to Marv or Foye at all. (though that's a huge upgrade over losing minutes to CJ, Raja or Howard, init? )

Burks has got to get his minutes and if matchups allow us to play the "Super Big Friends" lineup (Big Al/Millsap/Favors), we should do it, with or without GH at SG, but aside from that, GH has got to play. A lot.

Aw yeh. Mah bwoys gonna tap that "potential" baby. Tap it like a ^$%# *&^%ing a &%@#er. From be-HIND, knowuddamean?*

*-clicked "Urban" on the translator addin. sry.

Pssssst. Ah hem. Uh, yea, Mutang. On board. Alllllll last season. GH is our starting _____ and he'll play at minimum 30 mins. Gordo does everything well, and this season I think he ends up doing a couple things great.
My opinion, no matter who starts is Gordo starts at the 2. He played best there, and though Burks is a really good scorer, he doesn't do nearly as many things as Gordo does. I'd like to see our 6th man spot owned by Burks this year. And of course GH can slide to the SF if Burks comes in for Marv, or Paul, or whomever is playing the 3. So GH 30+, and Burks at least 20-25 will contribute to victories.
I dont think anyone feels like we need to trade for a 2, but trading for a 3 I'm still open for since GH's best spot is 2. Marv is good, and I think he'll have a great year, quite possibly his best. But making a trade for an Olympic 3 I'm good with.

Mutangclan wrote:

I dont think anyone feels like we need to trade for a 2, but trading for a 3 I'm still open for since GH's best spot is 2. Marv is good, and I think he'll have a great year, quite possibly his best. But making a trade for an Olympic 3 I'm good with.

I dunno, I think Iggy is overrated at $15 mil/per. Very close to basically like having AK at that money. Yeah, great player, put him on my team for the right price but a cap killer who limits other team upgrades. He has an inflated contract from the Mad, Mad, World pre-lockout dazeand the only reason he is an Olympian is because the team needed, (actually turns out they didn't, congrats Team USA), a lock down defender. I think KOC has been exceptionally astute managing contracts and not taking on overpaid ones that limits roster adjustments, (though Marv remains to be seen, but decent gamble IMO), leaving, drum roll please...an exceptional amount of salary flexibility at the end of this coming season. He can then strike like the master surgeon he is to fill the roster out just so. Without overpaying anybody and fielding a dangerous team.

Trollificus wrote:

I must be missing something here. Or everybody else missed Gordon Hayward last year. You know that Gordon Hayward, the guy who only made great strides in his second year, proved to be a terrific multi-position defender, contributed in every way possible and now has added some bulk to the existing skillset? That guy? And we HAVE to get somebody at SG and SF to take minutes away from him?

Man, I was excited to see him break out this year, and I don't want to see him losing minutes to Marv or Foye at all. (though that's a huge upgrade over losing minutes to CJ, Raja or Howard, init? )

Burks has got to get his minutes and if matchups allow us to play the "Super Big Friends" lineup (Big Al/Millsap/Favors), we should do it, with or without GH at SG, but aside from that, GH has got to play. A lot.

Aw yeh. Mah bwoys gonna tap that "potential" baby. Tap it like a ^$%# *&^%ing a &%@#er. From be-HIND, knowuddamean?*

*-clicked "Urban" on the translator addin. sry.

Well that's the great thing about Wilson Chandler he does not have to be a starter to be a very effective player he play's just about as well coming off of the bench, where Marv Williams we just don't know how he will be coming off of the bench that's why I like that trade so much and we could keep Milsap around.