Possible Millsap best move?

I think it will be hard to trade for Millsap. He only has one year on the contract, and if you trade for him, he is a guy you want to keep. Most expiring contracts have more value in the trade market then if the contract had a few years, but I think its different for Millsap because he is a good player.

If a team really wants him, why not wait till the offseason to sign him? Not everybody has cap room to do that, and it would be interesting to see who has about 10 mil in cap space after this season.

I cant see Millsap starting. First, I think Favors will be the best on the team. I might be dreaming, but he has endless potential. I don't see how he does not start. So now the decision comes down to Millsap or Jefferson. I like Millsap more, but having jefferson off the bench creates a huge problem. Kanter/Jefferson is a very scary combo for the Jazz. THose 2 just do not mesh. They played very very limited time together, and for good reason. I can go into details, but I think we are all smart enough to realize those 2 on at the same time is a bad thought.

This has gotten me to think about a sign and trade after the year. If a team wants to have Millsap, how about sign and trade, if Millsap is unhappy? All I ask for in return is to flip flop 2nd round picks. This gives Utah a trade exception.

One move we all love, and one move we all hate used the trade exception. Mo Williams came over, and the Jazz gave up nothing in return because they had the Okur trade exception. The Lakers used the Lamar Odom trade exception to get Nash for a bunch of picks.

Maybe just getting an exception for Millsap is the best move. I love watching him. Favorite player in the post malone-stockton era, but I just think the writing is on the wall. He will not start this year. This upsets him, and he bolts. I would love to have him paired up with Favors next year as the starting combo, but I am not sure if we can expect Millsap to stay if he comes off the bench this year.

I dont know whats going to happen, but I think instead of the normal "everything kept in house", I think I'd like to know and hear exactly what Ty is thinking, why he decides to start who he does. What Paul thinks about all of it too. I hope it's all put out there, I think there's alot of good that comes from that, and kind of keeps it fair.

As for him traded, Philly traded for Bynum with no assurances, Dwight too. Granted Paul is a step down from them, but not too far. Somebody would really like to have him, I have no doubt.
Sign and trade is nice, and if I'm not mistaken this would be the last chance to do it before new CBA.
TPE is nice also, and I guess it doesn't matter much, but kind of want to trade for an exact type of player we need.

Ahh rawns. You know my feelings on this, but I'm not in the mood for another soap box rant (and a collective sigh of relief pours out of the crowd). Actually if you replace Millsap's name with Jefferson's I might agree with you for the most part.

Besides, a Millsap trade exception would only be worth about 7 Million, that wouldn't even have got the Jazz Mo Williams. A Jefferson exception on the other hand...

TheMagnus wrote:

Ahh rawns. You know my feelings on this, but I'm not in the mood for another soap box rant (and a collective sigh of relief pours out of the crowd). Actually if you replace Millsap's name with Jefferson's I might agree with you for the most part.

Besides, a Millsap trade exception would only be worth about 7 Million, that wouldn't even have got the Jazz Mo Williams. A Jefferson exception on the other hand...

I know. If the Jazz could get a jefferson exception for 14 mil, id do it in a heart beat. SHoot, if they could get an exception for him I would do it.

I would love to go forward with Millsap/Favors. Kanter then takes the Odom role. You really only have a 3 man rotation, except, instead of the bench player playing PF, and moving the starter to C, you move the starter to PF with Kanter at C. I am just worried that Jefferson and Kanter do not mesh at all, so you have to start Favors or Millsap. I cant see how Millsap is happy with that. However, he has been the ultimate professional, so maybe he accepts it, and realizes it is just a one year thing.

Only a 3 man rotation after this year. Kanter aint ready for 28 minutes yet.

TheMagnus wrote:

Ahh rawns. You know my feelings on this, but I'm not in the mood for another soap box rant (and a collective sigh of relief pours out of the crowd). Actually if you replace Millsap's name with Jefferson's I might agree with you for the most part.

Besides, a Millsap trade exception would only be worth about 7 Million, that wouldn't even have got the Jazz Mo Williams. A Jefferson exception on the other hand...

I definitely see your point on Millsap though you also know I think AJ is generally underrated by Jazz fans. The odd problem is its not likely that both Sap and Al will be back for the 13-14 season (unless Jazz go deep this year, Ty found minutes for everyone and team chemistry clicked). The big if is really if Sap will successfully negotiate an extension. Since the Jazz started that process its up to Sap to commit or not. Not signing an extension is a bellweather that Sap is gone, so the Jazz would need something for him, even the $7 mill extension, thus he is the most tradable piece(?). I still think Ty is fully planning on getting all the guys decent minutes and in general the organization is pretty stoked to have a ridiculous arsenal in the paint for this season.

MTJazz wrote:

I definitely see your point on Millsap though you also know I think AJ is generally underrated by Jazz fans. The odd problem is its not likely that both Sap and Al will be back for the 13-14 season (unless Jazz go deep this year, Ty found minutes for everyone and team chemistry clicked). The big if is really if Sap will successfully negotiate an extension. Since the Jazz started that process its up to Sap to commit or not. Not signing an extension is a bellweather that Sap is gone, so the Jazz would need something for him, even the $7 mill extension, thus he is the most tradable piece(?). I still think Ty is fully planning on getting all the guys decent minutes and in general the organization is pretty stoked to have a ridiculous arsenal in the paint for this season.

I agree Mt....Funny thing is, IMO I think all those things WILL happen this year, chemistry, minutes and Jazz go deeper. But I still dont think it makes a difference if Millsap stays; one of them is gone. I think you do NOT just stand pat and watch good players walk away, when you're in a smaller market and star players are not attracted to you. You have to take advantage of the assets you have.
Playing out the season and just letting great players walk can be a death sentence to small market Utah.

Next year the Jazz could have 8 players for just over $20 million, they wouldn't need a trade exception at all if they had close to $38 million to get 4 players.
Millsap on the other hand would allow you to pick up a player in trade between now and the trade deadline that you might really want.
Example (not much chance of it happening but just go along) Celtics have had enough of Rondo, they want to dump him, most every team would like to have him but the Jazz could bid- Millsap, GS pick, Jazz next years pick, throw in Mo' if they wanted temporary PG help for the one year. This would be about $20 million in expiring contracts and draft picks BUT the Celtics would want Millsap and two first round picks. They get rid of Rondo and if they have a bad contract worth about $8 million it might entice Boston to go for the deal, meanwhile the Jazz get an elite PG and they are one step closer to the team that gets them to the next level.
Again this is just a wild example, the goal being no more "nice players" for the Jazz they are loaded with them now, it's time to go for the big move when it comes up.

okayyyyyyy???

What am I missing here? I feel like there has to be some underlying bitterness against these guys or something, because I don't believe you guys really believe what you are saying right now...


"Millsap is gone if he doesn't sign and extention, so they should just get what they can out of him in trade."

The Jazz can afford to keep one of these guys for 8 figures, Jefferson is making double what Millsap is right now, an extension hasn't even been discussed, and no way in hell he's taking a pay cut, so who exactly is going to be "leaving for nothing"????

Furthermore, whether you are talking about Jefferson or Millsap, if you are talking about just trading them for some relatively equitable salary, whether it be immediately or using a TPE, what are the odds that said player(s) is actually better than Jefferson and/or Millsap? For Jefferson the answer is "unlikely", and for Millsap the answer is "No way in hell". So you have either added the equivalent amount of Jefferson and/or Millsaps salary to the Jazz future payroll just to take a step back on the court, or you have given them away for nothing just like you said you shouldn't do.

FURTHERMORE, if the Jazz really want a TPE then they can likely get one after these guys have played a full season and become free agents, just like they did with Boozer.

So, can somebody explain to me how any of this "get something before they walk for nothing" argument makes any sense?

If a nice opportunity came up, I'm on board with a "big move" for a bonafide star like rory was talking about because that implies some equitable return, and the Jazz have the pieces to make that kind of move, but this nonsense about moving these guys for below market value because they have expiring contracts is mind blowingly stupid.

And honestly there is maybe a handful of guys in the entire NBA that would fit the three criteria of 1)improving the Jazz on the court, 2) not crippling them financially, and 3) having even a remote possibility of being traded from their current teams in a Millsap or Jefferson trade. So that type of thinking, while it is fun and I will gladly participate in the speculation every time a rumor involving a player that could possibly meet those criteria comes up, is a lot like hoping the Jazz will win the Lottery with the 8th pick in the draft. It could happen, but 95% chance it ain't gonna happen.

TheMagnus wrote:

okayyyyyyy???

What am I missing here? I feel like there has to be some underlying bitterness against these guys or something, because I don't believe you guys really believe what you are saying right now...


"Millsap is gone if he doesn't sign and extention, so they should just get what they can out of him in trade."

The Jazz can afford to keep one of these guys for 8 figures, Jefferson is making double what Millsap is right now, an extension hasn't even been discussed, and no way in hell he's taking a pay cut, so who exactly is going to be "leaving for nothing"????

Furthermore, whether you are talking about Jefferson or Millsap, if you are talking about just trading them for some relatively equitable salary, whether it be immediately or using a TPE, what are the odds that said player(s) is actually better than Jefferson and/or Millsap? For Jefferson the answer is "unlikely", and for Millsap the answer is "No way in hell". So you have either added the equivalent amount of Jefferson and/or Millsaps salary to the Jazz future payroll just to take a step back on the court, or you have given them away for nothing just like you said you shouldn't do.

FURTHERMORE, if the Jazz really want a TPE then they can likely get one after these guys have played a full season and become free agents, just like they did with Boozer.

So, can somebody explain to me how any of this "get something before they walk for nothing" argument makes any sense?

If a nice opportunity came up, I'm on board with a "big move" for a bonafide star like rory was talking about because that implies some equitable return, and the Jazz have the pieces to make that kind of move, but this nonsense about moving these guys for below market value because they have expiring contracts is mind blowingly stupid.

And honestly there is maybe a handful of guys in the entire NBA that would fit the three criteria of 1)improving the Jazz on the court, 2) not crippling them financially, and 3) having even a remote possibility of being traded from their current teams in a Millsap or Jefferson trade. So that type of thinking, while it is fun and I will gladly participate in the speculation every time a rumor involving a player that could possibly meet those criteria comes up, is a lot like hoping the Jazz will win the Lottery with the 8th pick in the draft. It could happen, but 95% chance it ain't gonna happen.

I am not saying trade him for below market value. If I was KOC im listening to others, but not really going hard after trading him. (I would listen to offers for anybody, not named LeBron or Durant.)

What I was saying is maybe the Jazz just get a TPE after the year. Now, if he goes for 7 mil like you suggested, that is grand theft larceny. My whole point is I am afraid of him being discontent here if Favors starts the year. I start Millsap over Jefferson if jefferson could play with kanter. Problem is they can't play together. Going forward I would love to see a Millsap Favors starting front court, with Kanter off the bench. (Then Evans gets minutes if they need them at the PF position, as they go with a 3 man rotation of millsap favors and kanter.)

If I sound like I want to sell him for below market, no way. Not my point. TPE can be valuable though, and the Jazz have used it to get Mo. If the asking price is less then 9 mil per im resigning him in a heartbeat.

THis post was meant to talk about next offseason, if he leaves.

So Magnus, say this year goes well, Jazz get to second round and lose a tough series. Regardless of who starts, guys seem content. Then the off season comes, Paul the UFA get blasted with talk from Portland, Pacers, Orlando, Bobcats, Warriors, Cleveland, Brooklyn, Milwaukee, San Antonio and others who all would LOVE to have him. Somebody offers him a 14m per year contract for four years. At this point, do you agree this is likely? And if you do, do you believe Utah will offer him 14m a year also? Maybe a year longer but 12m per? I dont think Utah pays him anything over 11m per.
So you think Paul would take 11m per?
Do you think Utah would offer more?
What do you think is most likely to happen?
I think the above scenario happens, and some team swoops in and offers him big money. And he takes it, because in those 4 years he would make more than he would with Utah in 5 years. And that wont even count the endorsement stuff he may get if he went to say Brooklyn or something.

Mutangclan wrote:

So Magnus, say this year goes well, Jazz get to second round and lose a tough series. Regardless of who starts, guys seem content. Then the off season comes, Paul the UFA get blasted with talk from Portland, Pacers, Orlando, Bobcats, Warriors, Cleveland, Brooklyn, Milwaukee, San Antonio and others who all would LOVE to have him. Somebody offers him a 14m per year contract for four years. At this point, do you agree this is likely? And if you do, do you believe Utah will offer him 14m a year also? Maybe a year longer but 12m per? I dont think Utah pays him anything over 11m per.
So you think Paul would take 11m per?
Do you think Utah would offer more?
What do you think is most likely to happen?
I think the above scenario happens, and some team swoops in and offers him big money. And he takes it, because in those 4 years he would make more than he would with Utah in 5 years. And that wont even count the endorsement stuff he may get if he went to say Brooklyn or something.

I think the Jazz magic number is probably around 45 Million guaranteed, whether it's 4 years or 5. I think it is highly unlikely that he gets an offer over 12 Million a year, and if it is it will only be for 3 years or less. I think it's most likely that he gets several offers in the 9-10 Million range and the Jazz will match or beat any offer in that range.

And what if that does happen? The Jazz likely get a big TPE and move on with a boat load of cap space, which is a better scenario than just about any involving dumping him mid season out of fear of losing him for nothing.

TheMagnus wrote:

<...> And what if that does happen? The Jazz likely get a big TPE and move on with a boat load of cap space, which is a better scenario than just about any involving dumping him mid season out of fear of losing him for nothing.

That's it. Worst case scenario all the young core under contract for little money, a whole bunch of cap space and the draft picks. Nothing to be mad at methinks...

If the Jazz have $95 million to play with keeping Millsap is a no brainer and paying Big Al what he wants, keeping Mo' as an $8 million a year back up PG, then go out and spend even more for an elite PG and SF. Marvin would be a great back up SF if money was no option plus AK would have been nice to pick up too.
This is the world of LA not Utah.
The Jazz need to watch every penny and disect every roster spot.
I would love to not even think twice about keeping Paul but the reality of keeping him, looking for someone else that is needed more in another positon by trade or signing a FA, or using him as trade bait is Utah's world, and it sucks.

rorybreaker wrote:

If the Jazz have $95 million to play with keeping Millsap is a no brainer and paying Big Al what he wants, keeping Mo' as an $8 million a year back up PG, then go out and spend even more for an elite PG and SF. Marvin would be a great back up SF if money was no option plus AK would have been nice to pick up too.
This is the world of LA not Utah.
The Jazz need to watch every penny and disect every roster spot.
I would love to not even think twice about keeping Paul but the reality of keeping him, looking for someone else that is needed more in another positon by trade or signing a FA, or using him as trade bait is Utah's world, and it sucks.

Right on, Rory. I think so often the debates around here tilt towards paying freight the Jazz can't pay. PLUS, I believe the Jazz already have the 12th highest payroll of $65MM, we are already outspending the majority of teams, very respectable for a small market effort. Not in Laker/Heat land by a long shot and never will be. The ugly truth, or actually very interesting subplot, is the Jazz are pretty much limited to getting incrementally better year by year, and they are doing that over the last four, never tasting the bottom 1/3. The great news about increments is youth with obvious upside, which the Jazz have in numbers -- way easier way to get better than 4-dimensional chess of trades. Sap or Al will not be on the Jazz in '13-14 but by golly, whoever takes up that salary slot is going to kick some ass, in just the right spot.

TheMagnus wrote:

I think the Jazz magic number is probably around 45 Million guaranteed, whether it's 4 years or 5. I think it is highly unlikely that he gets an offer over 12 Million a year, and if it is it will only be for 3 years or less. I think it's most likely that he gets several offers in the 9-10 Million range and the Jazz will match or beat any offer in that range.

And what if that does happen? The Jazz likely get a big TPE and move on with a boat load of cap space, which is a better scenario than just about any involving dumping him mid season out of fear of losing him for nothing.

Yea, I can agree with you on that magic number, though I'm sure it'll be for 4 years. Though maybe they give him the choice, if thats possible.
I do however disagree that some other team, much like one of those I listed will not come in and offer him 12 or even more. And I think they'll do it with a 4 year offer. 4yr/48m? Ibaka just got that and that was from his home team. Paul can be looked at as a similar value from another team for sure. I think a team definitely will offer him that. And then......he takes it.

So then a TPE. Hmmmm. I dont know, it's nice to have, but a TPE is no guarantee of a good player. It just means you have the money for one. The Magic have a huge one now. Nobody so far is talked about going there. I tend to think it'll be split up at best.
So for Paul, I wasn't talking about dumping him. I was talking about making a trade for a good player. I much prefer getting a known quantity for Paul mid-season, verses getting a TPE and the HOPE, it turns into a good player.

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

I think the Jazz magic number is probably around 45 Million guaranteed, whether it's 4 years or 5. I think it is highly unlikely that he gets an offer over 12 Million a year, and if it is it will only be for 3 years or less. I think it's most likely that he gets several offers in the 9-10 Million range and the Jazz will match or beat any offer in that range.

And what if that does happen? The Jazz likely get a big TPE and move on with a boat load of cap space, which is a better scenario than just about any involving dumping him mid season out of fear of losing him for nothing.

Yea, I can agree with you on that magic number, though I'm sure it'll be for 4 years. Though maybe they give him the choice, if thats possible.
I do however disagree that some other team, much like one of those I listed will not come in and offer him 12 or even more. And I think they'll do it with a 4 year offer. 4yr/48m? Ibaka just got that and that was from his home team. Paul can be looked at as a similar value from another team for sure. I think a team definitely will offer him that. And then......he takes it.

So then a TPE. Hmmmm. I dont know, it's nice to have, but a TPE is no guarantee of a good player. It just means you have the money for one. The Magic have a huge one now. Nobody so far is talked about going there. I tend to think it'll be split up at best.
So for Paul, I wasn't talking about dumping him. I was talking about making a trade for a good player. I much prefer getting a known quantity for Paul mid-season, verses getting a TPE and the HOPE, it turns into a good player.

Ya, good luck with that. Like I said, thinking we can just come up with a comparable value trade for Millsap is, to me, like thinking we can win the lottery with the 8th or 9th pick in the draft. Could happen, but probably won't.

I keep trying to tell you guys why it is much much more likely that we could find that kind of deal for Jefferson, but nobody seems interested in talking about that, so I guess Millsap it is...

TheMagnus wrote:

Ya, good luck with that. Like I said, thinking we can just come up with a comparable value trade for Millsap is, to me, like thinking we can win the lottery with the 8th or 9th pick in the draft. Could happen, but probably won't.

I keep trying to tell you guys why it is much much more likely that we could find that kind of deal for Jefferson, but nobody seems interested in talking about that, so I guess Millsap it is...

Hey, what did Asik get, 4 years 10m??? And you dont think Paul will get offered more?
What I"m saying is it must get explored. To think that some team wont come in with a huge offer, front loaded at that, is to ignore whats consistently been happening for years with good players.
Its not about who I like more, just think that more people will want to trade for Paul.

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Ya, good luck with that. Like I said, thinking we can just come up with a comparable value trade for Millsap is, to me, like thinking we can win the lottery with the 8th or 9th pick in the draft. Could happen, but probably won't.

I keep trying to tell you guys why it is much much more likely that we could find that kind of deal for Jefferson, but nobody seems interested in talking about that, so I guess Millsap it is...

Hey, what did Asik get, 4 years 10m??? And you dont think Paul will get offered more?
What I"m saying is it must get explored. To think that some team wont come in with a huge offer, front loaded at that, is to ignore whats consistently been happening for years with good players.
Its not about who I like more, just think that more people will want to trade for Paul.

But not Jefferson?

You'll notice a common thread with these bigs that are getting massive deals...they come with a /C on their player card. That's no coincidence. Millsap may be better than all of them, but he can't play center. All you have to do to make $10 mil+ as a Center is block a couple shots a game and rebound a little OR score more than 12 points a game. Ibaka got $12 Mil a year, he's considered one of the best young defensive PF/C in the NBA, if that is a price point for Millsap I'd say it's the upper limit.

Look, there are multiple things that make finding a good trade for Millsap difficult, one of the biggest being that he is massively underpaid at his current salary. Of course that makes him more attractive, but it also makes it difficult if not impossible to get equal value out of him. I can almost guarantee that the only offers the Jazz will get for him are lesser players with the same or more money on their contract, so why not just pay Millsap and keep him, or not pay him and keep the money? Either of those options would be better now and in the long term than taking a lesser player for similar money to what Millsap is making now.

TheMagnus wrote:

But not Jefferson?

You'll notice a common thread with these bigs that are getting massive deals...they come with a /C on their player card. That's no coincidence. Millsap may be better than all of them, but he can't play center. All you have to do to make $10 mil+ as a Center is block a couple shots a game and rebound a little OR score more than 12 points a game. Ibaka got $12 Mil a year, he's considered one of the best young defensive PF/C in the NBA, if that is a price point for Millsap I'd say it's the upper limit.

Hmmm, true. They do come with that. Interesting too that guys like Boozer and freaking Diaw have C next to them as well as PF, but Paul doesn't. I think he and Diaw are the exact same size.....
Lastly, yea, I think Paul is more attractive to teams verses Jefferson, for a few reasons. One of them though is that he (AL) is looked at in an underrated way.
I think we have about 10months though before any changes happen with Paul anyway.

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

I think the Jazz magic number is probably around 45 Million guaranteed, whether it's 4 years or 5. I think it is highly unlikely that he gets an offer over 12 Million a year, and if it is it will only be for 3 years or less. I think it's most likely that he gets several offers in the 9-10 Million range and the Jazz will match or beat any offer in that range.

And what if that does happen? The Jazz likely get a big TPE and move on with a boat load of cap space, which is a better scenario than just about any involving dumping him mid season out of fear of losing him for nothing.

Yea, I can agree with you on that magic number, though I'm sure it'll be for 4 years. Though maybe they give him the choice, if thats possible.
I do however disagree that some other team, much like one of those I listed will not come in and offer him 12 or even more. And I think they'll do it with a 4 year offer. 4yr/48m? Ibaka just got that and that was from his home team. Paul can be looked at as a similar value from another team for sure. I think a team definitely will offer him that. And then......he takes it.

So then a TPE. Hmmmm. I dont know, it's nice to have, but a TPE is no guarantee of a good player. It just means you have the money for one. The Magic have a huge one now. Nobody so far is talked about going there. I tend to think it'll be split up at best.
So for Paul, I wasn't talking about dumping him. I was talking about making a trade for a good player. I much prefer getting a known quantity for Paul mid-season, verses getting a TPE and the HOPE, it turns into a good player.

I concur. I think Sap is easily going to get 4-yrs and $12MM, he is that good, at the prime of his career and any team would love to have him anchor the PF. The question I have is will the Jazz pay him that much so he can peak with the Young Guns? My guess is yes, that is why they made the move to extend him, show him they love him and everyone is now taking their sweet time coming up with the final deal. I think he re-signs before camp. That now leaves big Al as the obvious odd man out though I would expect they evaluate his and the team's play with him this season then offer to extend, or not, based on the terms he wants for a new contract. He plays like the all-star he did last season and like Sap, you gotta pay the man or he's gone, and bless him, he can make any team way better and he deserves his payday. Hopefully by the end of the season Favors and Kanter are obviously the real deal giving the Jazz a great deal of bargaining flexibility. If Al wants to stay for 3 years and a team 4th year option and $12MM I say keep him.

Big Al scores in the paint and rebounds like a fiend. Kanter and Favors can rebound like fiends but both have limited offensive games. If the Jazz can get scoring from other spots, which I am sure they can, the scoring load duty comes off those guys (but they have to be good enough that other teams can't ignore them when they are more than 8 feet from the basket). I think the Jazz are better balanced with Al on the team, best paint crew in the NBA. It will out rebound you. It will swat your shots. It will score on you. Plenty of minutes for everyone, a fearsome 4-headed monster. Cannot wait to watch the Jazz's brand new inside-outside offense and the return of Swat City.

MTJazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

I think the Jazz magic number is probably around 45 Million guaranteed, whether it's 4 years or 5. I think it is highly unlikely that he gets an offer over 12 Million a year, and if it is it will only be for 3 years or less. I think it's most likely that he gets several offers in the 9-10 Million range and the Jazz will match or beat any offer in that range.

And what if that does happen? The Jazz likely get a big TPE and move on with a boat load of cap space, which is a better scenario than just about any involving dumping him mid season out of fear of losing him for nothing.

Yea, I can agree with you on that magic number, though I'm sure it'll be for 4 years. Though maybe they give him the choice, if thats possible.
I do however disagree that some other team, much like one of those I listed will not come in and offer him 12 or even more. And I think they'll do it with a 4 year offer. 4yr/48m? Ibaka just got that and that was from his home team. Paul can be looked at as a similar value from another team for sure. I think a team definitely will offer him that. And then......he takes it.

So then a TPE. Hmmmm. I dont know, it's nice to have, but a TPE is no guarantee of a good player. It just means you have the money for one. The Magic have a huge one now. Nobody so far is talked about going there. I tend to think it'll be split up at best.
So for Paul, I wasn't talking about dumping him. I was talking about making a trade for a good player. I much prefer getting a known quantity for Paul mid-season, verses getting a TPE and the HOPE, it turns into a good player.

I concur. I think Sap is easily going to get 4-yrs and $12MM, he is that good, at the prime of his career and any team would love to have him anchor the PF. The question I have is will the Jazz pay him that much so he can peak with the Young Guns? My guess is yes, that is why they made the move to extend him, show him they love him and everyone is now taking their sweet time coming up with the final deal. I think he re-signs before camp. That now leaves big Al as the obvious odd man out though I would expect they evaluate his and the team's play with him this season then offer to extend, or not, based on the terms he wants for a new contract. He plays like the all-star he did last season and like Sap, you gotta pay the man or he's gone, and bless him, he can make any team way better and he deserves his payday. Hopefully by the end of the season Favors and Kanter are obviously the real deal giving the Jazz a great deal of bargaining flexibility. If Al wants to stay for 3 years and a team 4th year option and $12MM I say keep him.

Big Al scores in the paint and rebounds like a fiend. Kanter and Favors can rebound like fiends but both have limited offensive games. If the Jazz can get scoring from other spots, which I am sure they can, the scoring load duty comes off those guys (but they have to be good enough that other teams can't ignore them when they are more than 8 feet from the basket). I think the Jazz are better balanced with Al on the team, best paint crew in the NBA. It will out rebound you. It will swat your shots. It will score on you. Plenty of minutes for everyone, a fearsome 4-headed monster. Cannot wait to watch the Jazz's brand new inside-outside offense and the return of Swat City.

It's too bad things have to always come down to money if these guys could some how stay together on this team they are a very formable NBA front court, if this group of Kids could find a way to stay together beyond this next season with the new additions to the team they could become real contender's in the Western Conference for many season's to come. Thinking about Mo Williams, Randy Foye and Marv Williams ability to hit from the outside no doubt takes this team to a whole new level of play on the offensive end, teams are going to have to guard them no question about it.

I can't remember me looking forward to the coming season as much as I have for this one in awhile now but O'Conner has put together a group of players that have the poetical to be a very good team, maybe the best team ever with the all around talent they have from PG to the C position deepest team I think the Jazz has ever had on the same team.

dongibby wrote:

I can't remember me looking forward to the coming season as much as I have for this one in awhile now but O'Conner has put together a group of players that have the poetical to be a very good team, maybe the best team ever with the all around talent they have from PG to the C position deepest team I think the Jazz has ever had on the same team.

I'm down with the poetical of this team!

The ball is cast to the paint
Then touched by giants
To the hole
And One.

MTJazz wrote:

dongibby wrote:

I can't remember me looking forward to the coming season as much as I have for this one in awhile now but O'Conner has put together a group of players that have the poetical to be a very good team, maybe the best team ever with the all around talent they have from PG to the C position deepest team I think the Jazz has ever had on the same team.

I'm down with the poetical of this team!

The ball is cast to the paint
Then touched by giants
To the hole
And One.

Well I guess I need to use spell check what I wanted to say was (potential) of this team but that how things go's sometimes.

MTJazz wrote:

I concur. I think Sap is easily going to get 4-yrs and $12MM, he is that good, at the prime of his career and any team would love to have him anchor the PF. The question I have is will the Jazz pay him that much so he can peak with the Young Guns? My guess is yes, that is why they made the move to extend him, show him they love him and everyone is now taking their sweet time coming up with the final deal. I think he re-signs before camp. That now leaves big Al as the obvious odd man out though I would expect they evaluate his and the team's play with him this season then offer to extend, or not, based on the terms he wants for a new contract. He plays like the all-star he did last season and like Sap, you gotta pay the man or he's gone, and bless him, he can make any team way better and he deserves his payday. Hopefully by the end of the season Favors and Kanter are obviously the real deal giving the Jazz a great deal of bargaining flexibility. If Al wants to stay for 3 years and a team 4th year option and $12MM I say keep him.

Big Al scores in the paint and rebounds like a fiend. Kanter and Favors can rebound like fiends but both have limited offensive games. If the Jazz can get scoring from other spots, which I am sure they can, the scoring load duty comes off those guys (but they have to be good enough that other teams can't ignore them when they are more than 8 feet from the basket). I think the Jazz are better balanced with Al on the team, best paint crew in the NBA. It will out rebound you. It will swat your shots. It will score on you. Plenty of minutes for everyone, a fearsome 4-headed monster. Cannot wait to watch the Jazz's brand new inside-outside offense and the return of Swat City.

/\ all this, yup. It would be ideal and nice. This is a nice, nice team right now, and they haven't even come close to their potential. Very exciting to be a Jazz fan.

Only thing is, I dont think Utah offers him 12m per, and I dont think Paul is going to be here after this season. Sucks. Extending him just made sense, they knew Paul wasn't going to take it and that he'll make more elsewhere. And Utah can play the season and see what they want to do. That just kept everyone on the good side of everyone else, everybody is still smiling in the Paul/Jazz relationship.