Jonas Valanciunas

Here, for Calgary and ALL of those Jazz fans that are desperately interested in discussing the trials and tribulations of the great and powerful Jonas V, a thread to do just that.

I'll get it started: I'm a Jazz fan, and a Kanter (who is showing some great stuff) fan. So I dont give a shit.

Next!!

Where's the thread on Bismack Biyombo or Tristan Thompson?

Oh yeah, they don't fit the "narrative".

B. Liberation wrote:

Where's the thread on Bismack Biyombo or Tristan Thompson?

Oh yeah, they don't fit the "narrative".

No they don't fit the conversation that has been going on for months! You bringing up race every single post is getting old!

Oh right, thanks Romo for the move. It was just so confusing, you know, with Calgary bringing up JV all the time in the Utah Jazz section, I must have forgotten he's actual in Toronto!!
So strange that a jazz fan was always talking about a Raptor.....

Anyway, all of you JV fans, commence the conversation!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mutangclan wrote:

Oh right, thanks Romo for the move. It was just so confusing, you know, with Calgary bringing up JV all the time in the Utah Jazz section, I must have forgotten he's actual in Toronto!!
So strange that a jazz fan was always talking about a Raptor.....

Anyway, all of you JV fans, commence the conversation!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is only one JV fans. So someone better develop a split personality, to keep the conversation going.

Good, I was getting tired of talking about it in Jazz section. While we at it we should create threads for P.George and K.Leonard - other great players Jazz could have drafted.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Good, I was getting tired of talking about it in Jazz section. While we at it we should create threads for P.George and K.Leonard - other great players Jazz could have drafted.

We could make threads about every player the Jazz didn't draft. What is the point of that? Oh yeah, remind us we could have had Tony Parker? Backwards guessing on draft picks (shouldacoulda) is a little ridiculous. At the end of the day the best scouting talent in the nation is behind the picks and armchair point guarding after the fact is just that - making us regular schmucks feel smarter than the pros with our 20:20 hindsight. Now, on that JV thing, why you got your own thread...not even close at this point, no matter how bad you want it to be otherwise. If you want to keep falling on that sword, this is the place to do it, its all yours!

MTJazz wrote:

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Good, I was getting tired of talking about it in Jazz section. While we at it we should create threads for P.George and K.Leonard - other great players Jazz could have drafted.

We could make threads about every player the Jazz didn't draft. What is the point of that? Oh yeah, remind us we could have had Tony Parker? Backwards guessing on draft picks (shouldacoulda) is a little ridiculous. At the end of the day the best scouting talent in the nation is behind the picks and armchair point guarding after the fact is just that - making us regular schmucks feel smarter than the pros with our 20:20 hindsight. Now, on that JV thing, why you got your own thread...not even close at this point, no matter how bad you want it to be otherwise. If you want to keep falling on that sword, this is the place to do it, its all yours!

Ya, those are stupid examples anyways, Gordon Hayward is every bit the player Paul George is, and the verdict is still out on Burks.

Furthermore, I distinctly remember SOMEBODY [cough]Calgary[/cough] "really liking" the Burks pick and not saying boo about Leonard before or after the draft, while ANOTHER GUY (me) said Leonard was a top 10 pick and was sorely disappointed that the Jazz passed him up.

But do you see that ANOTHER GUY acting like an intolerable douche about it, unwilling to let it go, talking incessantly about how Burks is a deadbeat loser with no skills while Leonard is destined to be a great player, talking about how much KOC sucks, and acting like I like the Spurs better than the Jazz?

No, no you don't, because that would be stupid.

Besides, nothing will ever top the Jazz taking Kris Humphries one pick before Al Jefferson and then taking Kirk Snyder one pick before Josh Smith IN THE SAME DRAFT. That was hands down the low point in Jazz draft history, everything that followed that has been improvement.

TheMagnus wrote:

Furthermore, I distinctly remember SOMEBODY [cough]Calgary[/cough] "really liking" the Burks pick and not saying boo about Leonard before or after the draft, while ANOTHER GUY (me) said Leonard was a top 10 pick and was sorely disappointed that the Jazz passed him up.
.

You not remember correctly magnus, sorry. To bad you can't access old tribtalk posts. Bosnia posted rigth after Burks was drafted "F..ck you KOC for not taking Leonard" or something like that thread where I agreed with him about it as I wanted Leonard badly. I never wanted Burks before the draft. Never. I started liking him after what I saw in his rookie year and posted numerous times that even if I wanted Leonard I like what I see from Burks and I think he will be better then Hayward at the end of the day.
I still like him and hope he will be great for us though. But we must all agree that Leonard so far is in other league compared to Burks:/

TheMagnus wrote:

Gordon Hayward is every bit the player Paul George is[/url], and the verdict is still out on Burks.
.

I am not sure why would you say that. P.George scores more, rebounds better, passes better, has more steals and blocks and shooting better 3PT%. Their FG is about the same and only advantage Hayward has is FT% and less TO. On top of it P.George is top class athlete and is taller then Hayward.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Gordon Hayward is every bit the player Paul George is[/url], and the verdict is still out on Burks.
.

I am not sure why would you say that. P.George scores more, rebounds better, passes better, has more steals and blocks and shooting better 3PT%. Their FG is about the same and only advantage Hayward has is FT% and less TO. On top of it P.George is top class athlete and is taller then Hayward.

Gordon Hayward is also a "top class athlete", and George only had one inch on him on draft day. But you are right KOC totally should have known that he would grow some more, what an idiot!

And of course you are right about the numbers too, how silly of me...

...but it is strange how all of that could be true and yet they have almost identical PER and Simple Rating and similar WinScores/48. Riddle me that, Doc?

MTJazz wrote:

We could make threads about every player the Jazz didn't draft. What is the point of that? Oh yeah, remind us we could have had Tony Parker? Backwards guessing on draft picks (shouldacoulda) is a little ridiculous. At the end of the day the best scouting talent in the nation is behind the picks and armchair point guarding after the fact is just that - making us regular schmucks feel smarter than the pros with our 20:20 hindsight. Now, on that JV thing, why you got your own thread...not even close at this point, no matter how bad you want it to be otherwise. If you want to keep falling on that sword, this is the place to do it, its all yours!

Good good points. One thing. Rahul Lopez was a stone cold stud. He had bad knee joints so we cannot blame management for this draft choice. Lopez was the superior player on Parker with inferior genetics.

TheMagnus wrote:

Ya, those are stupid examples anyways, Gordon Hayward is every bit the player Paul George is, and the verdict is still out on Burks.

No no. Burks is known quantity. George is better than Hayward. Let us not get homeristic about this.

Professo_Sloan wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

We could make threads about every player the Jazz didn't draft. What is the point of that? Oh yeah, remind us we could have had Tony Parker? Backwards guessing on draft picks (shouldacoulda) is a little ridiculous. At the end of the day the best scouting talent in the nation is behind the picks and armchair point guarding after the fact is just that - making us regular schmucks feel smarter than the pros with our 20:20 hindsight. Now, on that JV thing, why you got your own thread...not even close at this point, no matter how bad you want it to be otherwise. If you want to keep falling on that sword, this is the place to do it, its all yours!

Good good points. One thing. Rahul Lopez was a stone cold stud. He had bad knee joints so we cannot blame management for this draft choice. Lopez was the superior player on Parker with inferior genetics.

TheMagnus wrote:

Ya, those are stupid examples anyways, Gordon Hayward is every bit the player Paul George is, and the verdict is still out on Burks.

No no. Burks is known quantity. George is better than Hayward. Let us not get homeristic about this.

You're a known quantity old man, Burks is not even a man yet and has a lot of growing and learning to do.

And I'll be as homeristic as I damn well please until someone explains to me why George is better in spite of the fact that the overall advanced stats say the two players are essentially equal so far this season.

TheMagnus wrote:

You're a known quantity old man, Burks is not even a man yet and has a lot of growing and learning to do.

And I'll be as homeristic as I damn well please until someone explains to me why George is better in spite of the fact that the overall advanced stats say the two players are essentially equal so far this season.

Fair enough on Hayward son. I can only tell you what my good eye sees. Take or leave. On to Burks, he is CJ son. Much better at this point in time I will give anyone this point. I will give you Burks is more driven like a Caddy versus a Honda CVCC. That is well known. CJ Miles has one main theme on Burks and this is very well clear to anyone with eyes to see. Miles has NBA vision.

TheMagnus wrote:

...but it is strange how all of that could be true and yet they have almost identical PER and Simple Rating and similar WinScores/48. Riddle me that, Doc?

Here is the thing with all these advanced stats who take minutes played into consideration and estimate whatever would happen ( in theory!) when they adjust minutes. It is nice on paper but it is almost like looking into crystal ball, rarely it becomes true when player with lesser minutes gets more playing time. Simple way to put it you have one team which already played 22 games and has 12 wins like the Jazz and Minnesota which played 18 games and has 9 wins. You could say that Minny in "theory or based on advanced stats or whatever" is better as they can still win 4 games and would have better record after 22 games. Problem is they still need to win those 4 games while other team already achieved 3 more wins. Same with players. We can estimate that Hayward might surpass George in points if given extra 8 minutes but it may not happen. He may even drop his FG% and have more TO and whatever else negative can happen. Thats why all those advanced stats should be looked at with caution. I repeat myself again, nobody hands contracts or awards based on PER or advanced stats.
You look at final result and based on it George is much better then Hayward this season. Sorry.

TheMagnus wrote:

Gordon Hayward is also a "top class athlete",

I would call him above average athlete, not top class or elite. Not at George, Griffin, Howard, Iguodala, Kobe, McGee, DeAndre, Favors, Gay or similar players level.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

...but it is strange how all of that could be true and yet they have almost identical PER and Simple Rating and similar WinScores/48. Riddle me that, Doc?

Here is the thing with all these advanced stats who take minutes played into consideration and estimate whatever would happen ( in theory!) when they adjust minutes. It is nice on paper but it is almost like looking into crystal ball, rarely it becomes true when player with lesser minutes gets more playing time. Simple way to put it you have one team which already played 22 games and has 12 wins like the Jazz and Minnesota which played 18 games and has 9 wins. You could say that Minny in "theory or based on advanced stats or whatever" is better as they can still win 4 games and would have better record after 22 games. Problem is they still need to win those 4 games while other team already achieved 3 more wins. Same with players. We can estimate that Hayward might surpass George in points if given extra 8 minutes but it may not happen. He may even drop his FG% and have more TO and whatever else negative can happen. Thats why all those advanced stats should be looked at with caution. I repeat myself again, nobody hands contracts or awards based on PER or advanced stats.
You look at final result and based on it George is much better then Hayward this season. Sorry.

You can repeat yourself all you want, you always do, but you are still wrong. Smart teams absolutely hand out contracts based on advanced stats, and teams like the Rockets, Spurs, Thunder, and Jazz are the primary employers of that strategy. Jeremy Evans, Paul Millsap, Wes Matthews, Omer Asik, Kevin Martin, Serge Ibaka, James Harden...you want more examples?

On top of that, you might have a point if you were talking about a low minute player like Jeremy Evans or Alec Burks, but you are litterally talking about a difference of 8 minutes a game, and you are talking about a player in Gordon Hayward who has actually had extended stretches where he has played 30+ minutes a game and he was actually BETTER per minute than he was when he played less than 30.

So sorry, Doc, your theories aren't carrying the water, and your whole argument is basically "he plays a few more minutes so he's better", which is pretty weak.

Expecially in light of the fact that the whole reason we are having this argument is because you proudly declare that not drafting George was some kind of major draft failing. Yet here we are, basically splitting hairs here over two really good young players, one of which the Jazz actually did draft...

What exactly was your point again?

I think the one thing everyone is forgetting is the Jazz have new players on this team and 3 of them are in the starting lineup as of now and this team is going to have to learn how to play with these new guys and until they do some players are going to struggle a little that is what I think the Jazz are going through now give them some time and I think everyone will come around and the Jazz will be a better team.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Good, I was getting tired of talking about it in Jazz section. While we at it we should create threads for P.George and K.Leonard - other great players Jazz could have drafted.

Hahahahaaha, Paul George Calgary???? Not quite!!! ........You must mean.......ED DAVIS. How about an Ed Davis thread???? Since thats who YOU wanted in that draft....

Professo_Sloan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

You're a known quantity old man, Burks is not even a man yet and has a lot of growing and learning to do.

And I'll be as homeristic as I damn well please until someone explains to me why George is better in spite of the fact that the overall advanced stats say the two players are essentially equal so far this season.

Fair enough on Hayward son. I can only tell you what my good eye sees. Take or leave. On to Burks, he is CJ son. Much better at this point in time I will give anyone this point. I will give you Burks is more driven like a Caddy versus a Honda CVCC. That is well known. CJ Miles has one main theme on Burks and this is very well clear to anyone with eyes to see. Miles has NBA vision.

I'm sorry, jury is already out on Burks???? Thats the silliest thing I've heard since Calgary saying Kanter wouldn't be able to rebound in the NBA......

And CJ Miles as NBA vision....???? Like tunnel vision? Or.....?

Mutangclan wrote:

And CJ Miles as NBA vision....???? Like tunnel vision? Or.....?

Exactly. At least that's how I read that comment.

Mutangclan wrote:

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Good, I was getting tired of talking about it in Jazz section. While we at it we should create threads for P.George and K.Leonard - other great players Jazz could have drafted.

Hahahahaaha, Paul George Calgary???? Not quite!!! ........You must mean.......ED DAVIS. How about an Ed Davis thread???? Since thats who YOU wanted in that draft....

But his favorite team DID get Ed Davis. And you should probably be a little careful, Davis is playing so well lately if Casey has a brain in his head he will force JV to the bench playing Kanter Minutes in short order.

TheMagnus wrote:

But his favorite team DID get Ed Davis. And you should probably be a little careful, Davis is playing so well lately if Casey has a brain in his head he will force JV to the bench playing Kanter Minutes in short order.

Favorite, whatever..... it is my local team, all their games are on TV here so I am seeing lots if Raptors ball but they are not my favorite...
Davis is really playing well lately and showing why I wanted him - 24pts/12reb tonight, 11-13FG. JV did well as well 15pts,4reb,2blk on 6-6 FG. With Bargnani out indefinitely Davis will get lots of minutes anyway and that team looks much much better without chuckers Lowry and Bargnani. Almost pulled win over Brooklyn tonight with only 8 players available.

Mutangclan wrote:

Thats the silliest thing I've heard since Calgary saying Kanter wouldn't be able to rebound in the NBA......

Dude you twisting my words again. I said won't be able rebound "like that" in NBA.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Thats the silliest thing I've heard since Calgary saying Kanter wouldn't be able to rebound in the NBA......

Dude you twisting my words again. I said won't be able rebound "like that" in NBA.

Hahahahahahahahaaaaaaa, man, I will NEVER hate you Doctor, you just keep me laughing....


So then you wanted Ed Davis over BOTH Paul George and Gordon Hayward.....I love love love, that right after Ed has some good games for the first time in 3 years, you say "see, thats why I wanted him".....ahahahahahaaaaa. Man. I love you. Seriously. And I'm not afraid to say it.

So you said he wont be able to rebound "like that" in the NBA then.....and........what do we have here....he IS rebounding like that!!! JUST LIKE I SAID HE WOULD. And once again, you were wrong.