Jonas Valanciunas

Mutangclan wrote:

So then you wanted Ed Davis over BOTH Paul George and Gordon Hayward.....I love love love, that right after Ed has some good games for the first time in 3 years, you say "see, thats why I wanted him".....ahahahahahaaaaa.

You have very short memory for young guy. Try to remember that we had discussion about rookies who had better rookie season stats then Hayward and Ed Davis was one of them. Yes, he struggled in sophomore season but he showed flashes of potential in his first year with numerous double double games. And now finally when he will be unleashed he will be regular double double guy with 1.5-2 blks a game. Not bad... maybe thats why you took him for your fantasy league huh?

Mutangclan wrote:

So you said he wont be able to rebound "like that" in the NBA then.....and........what do we have here....he IS rebounding like that!!! JUST LIKE I SAID HE WOULD. And once again, you were wrong.

I would agree that his rebounding was very impressive for rookie season.. now his rebounding rate dropped and does not look any special or "like that". But I already posted numerous times before that he exceeded my expectations as defender and rebounder, not sure why you trying to rub it in. I still stand by my final verdict that JV was better choice and pick for the Jazz and for you to say that I am/was wrong you would need to wait 3 years at least.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

So then you wanted Ed Davis over BOTH Paul George and Gordon Hayward.....I love love love, that right after Ed has some good games for the first time in 3 years, you say "see, thats why I wanted him".....ahahahahahaaaaa.

You have very short memory for young guy. Try to remember that we had discussion about rookies who had better rookie season stats then Hayward and Ed Davis was one of them. Yes, he struggled in sophomore season but he showed flashes of potential in his first year with numerous double double games. And now finally when he will be unleashed he will be regular double double guy with 1.5-2 blks a game. Not bad... maybe thats why you took him for your fantasy league huh?

Interesting....young guy.....I'll take it.

And here is the problem: you relate Fantasy to reality.....what does me taking Ed Davis for my fantasy team, have to do with anything? There are no bigs in Toronto with injuries and suspensions. Dude is going to get the minutes. Fine with me, although I'm sure it burned you up that someone else had a Raptor....

What does the rookie season matter now, and who is the better player, Gordon Hayward or Ed Davis?

Oh well, at least it got you off that Paul George bandwagon....acting as if you were on it the whole time....

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

So you said he wont be able to rebound "like that" in the NBA then.....and........what do we have here....he IS rebounding like that!!! JUST LIKE I SAID HE WOULD. And once again, you were wrong.

I would agree that his rebounding was very impressive for rookie season.. now his rebounding rate dropped and does not look any special or "like that". But I already posted numerous times before that he exceeded my expectations as defender and rebounder, not sure why you trying to rub it in. I still stand by my final verdict that JV was better choice and pick for the Jazz and for you to say that I am/was wrong you would need to wait 3 years at least.

Well, well!! Doctor Calgary, I knew you'd eventually have to admit that you were wrong about Kanter and his abilities. Funny, his rookie season you wouldn't admit that his rebounding rate was impressive....but i guess after a while even you can't squirm away. So in the end, or at least at this point, the "objective expert" tag, you so easily attached to yourself, certainly doesn't apply to Kanter. But yea, lets just keep this going another year, since the longer we go, the more right I am about Kanter being a good pick, and you being wrong.....unless of course he suits up for the Stampede any day now....

So you really do think that JV and Favors is a better match than Kanter and Favors still???

"Like that" sheesh, .......Calgary, you ever heard of a guy name Bill Clinton?? He was leader of the States back in the day. Anyway, he got in a bit of trouble, and when confronted on his troubles, he twisted the conversation around so much that at the end of the day, his reply when asked a question was, "it depends on what your meaning of the word "is" is.....

Mutangclan wrote:

So you really do think that JV and Favors is a better match than Kanter and Favors still???
....

Kanter in my eyes is not good fit for the Jazz offense at all, same like big AL period. Maybe I live to much in old pass happy/pick and roll Jazz offense times but they both are iso oriented, poor passing ( Kanter is the worst passer on the Jazz based on advanced stats you guys like so much) post up players who stop ball movement and are kind of boring to watch. As much as I despised Boozer for his defense to his credit he was way better fit for the Jazz offense then big AL. Same with JV - he is perfect for motion, pick and roll type offense - thus better fit in my book then Kanter. I am not even talking about higher ceiling, potential and size.
Unless Corbin had a plan to completely rewamp Jazz offense in the future I can't understand their draft choice or reasons for it. Maybe JV's buyout scared them - who knows. I wish I could ask that question somebody with Jazz insider info.

This thread/topic is like a bad car crash...... it is hard to stomach, is a tragedy, causes people pain..... but for some reason I can't stop looking.

zero24gravity wrote:

This thread/topic is like a bad car crash...... it is hard to stomach, is a tragedy, causes people pain..... but for some reason I can't stop looking.

I know right

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

So you really do think that JV and Favors is a better match than Kanter and Favors still???
....

Kanter in my eyes is not good fit for the Jazz offense at all, same like big AL period. Maybe I live to much in old pass happy/pick and roll Jazz offense times but they both are iso oriented, poor passing ( Kanter is the worst passer on the Jazz based on advanced stats you guys like so much) post up players who stop ball movement and are kind of boring to watch. As much as I despised Boozer for his defense to his credit he was way better fit for the Jazz offense then big AL. Same with JV - he is perfect for motion, pick and roll type offense - thus better fit in my book then Kanter. I am not even talking about higher ceiling, potential and size.
Unless Corbin had a plan to completely rewamp Jazz offense in the future I can't understand their draft choice or reasons for it. Maybe JV's buyout scared them - who knows. I wish I could ask that question somebody with Jazz insider info.

Calgary, you avoided my question. It's a team game, and my question was not just about Kanter. We traded our Franchise PG and Olympian for Favors etc. Adding Kanter was the best choice IMO, and has been; they balance each other out with their skill sets.
Even though you were such a dick about it, and so douchey every.....time.....the.....UnderKanter...... subject came up, its good you're FINALLY admitting the things you were wrong about.
Kanter was a good fit to our big acquisition Favors, and the future. And he's shown, already in ONLY ONE career start, and his other minutes, that the future is bright. And you've admitted to being wrong about some things about him, soooooo.....little bites of crow now, or just massive ones later?????

For the other rubberneckers, this may be coming to an end....even Calgary can't squirm away anymore from Kanters success.

TheMagnus wrote:

... Davis is playing so well lately if Casey has a brain in his head he will force JV to the bench playing Kanter Minutes in short order.

Quote :

Toronto Raptors rookie center Jonas Valanciunas has seen his minutes decrease from 34 to 26 to 16 and to 14 the last four games and head coach Dwane Casey had an answer for the reductions.

"I talked to Jonas before about his minutes going back a bit," Casey tells the Toronto Sun. "He has done nothing wrong. It's just the fact that Amir Johnson and Ed Davis have played really well together and individually."

Casey is also aware that rookies tend to start hitting "the wall" physically and mentally this time of year and he wants to make sure that he doesn't run down Valanciunas.

"That is what he is going through right now," says Casey. "Still Jonas is a big part of what we do. He's going to get his minutes and still be out there playing but I want to get Amir and Eddie in there together as much as possible."

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

DING DING DING DING!!! We have a winner!

TheMagnus wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

... Davis is playing so well lately if Casey has a brain in his head he will force JV to the bench playing Kanter Minutes in short order.

Quote :

Toronto Raptors rookie center Jonas Valanciunas has seen his minutes decrease from 34 to 26 to 16 and to 14 the last four games and head coach Dwane Casey had an answer for the reductions.

"I talked to Jonas before about his minutes going back a bit," Casey tells the Toronto Sun. "He has done nothing wrong. It's just the fact that Amir Johnson and Ed Davis have played really well together and individually."

Casey is also aware that rookies tend to start hitting "the wall" physically and mentally this time of year and he wants to make sure that he doesn't run down Valanciunas.

"That is what he is going through right now," says Casey. "Still Jonas is a big part of what we do. He's going to get his minutes and still be out there playing but I want to get Amir and Eddie in there together as much as possible."

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

DING DING DING DING!!! We have a winner!

Good call magnus, hard to blame Casey as team won last two games playing small ball and winner should never be questioned. As he said Jonas did nothing wrong and his future is as bright as ever.
On the other hand abscence of two most selfish players on Raptors team helped them the most IMHO - last game they had 29 assists for example, much much better ball movement without Bargs and Lowry. If they have any brains they should trade them both ASAP.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Good call magnus, hard to blame Casey as team won last two games playing small ball and winner should never be questioned. As he said Jonas did nothing wrong and his future is as bright as ever.
On the other hand abscence of two most selfish players on Raptors team helped them the most IMHO - last game they had 29 assists for example, much much better ball movement without Bargs and Lowry. If they have any brains they should trade them both ASAP.

I think it is more about Bargninny than anything, and they would be damn lucky if they could get out of his contract, as it is if they can't get a deal I'd seriously be thinking Amnesty, and firing Colangelo for signing that contract. It's addition by subtraction, and Coach Casey is the biggest benifactor. Just like last season with the Jazz when Corbin wouldn't bench Howard and Bell, and as soon as they got hurt the Jazz took off.

Lowry may be a bit selfish, and that may be hurting team chemistry, but unlike Undrea he's a very productive player. Casey needs to figure out how to use him and Calderone together more, and I'd seriously consider bringing Lowry off the bench when he comes back.

TheMagnus wrote:

Lowry may be a bit selfish, and that may be hurting team chemistry, but unlike Undrea he's a very productive player.

He gets his stats - great fantasy player but it does not help his team to win. They got third win in a row today, 25ast as team 6 players in double figures. Much better team play without Lowry and Bargs.
JV played 18min today, 8pts, 7reb. What is strange for me that his FT% is dropping badly, usually he is 80% FT shoter and now in last few games he is shooting just 50% or so.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Lowry may be a bit selfish, and that may be hurting team chemistry, but unlike Undrea he's a very productive player.

He gets his stats - great fantasy player but it does not help his team to win. They got third win in a row today, 25ast as team 6 players in double figures. Much better team play without Lowry and Bargs.

Maybe, but I'd argue it's a coaches job to put players in postitions to help their team win, players are just going to do what they do.

And speaking of not helping their team win, in terms of on court/off court impact there is one Raptors player that stands out above...er, rather below...the rest. Your boy JV has the biggest single player negative differential in on-court vs off-court team performance, worse than both Bargninny and Lowry, so it shouldn't be overlooked that the current winning streak is also correlated to a reduction in his minutes.

TheMagnus wrote:

. Your boy JV has the biggest single player negative differential in on-court vs off-court team performance, worse than both Bargninny and Lowry, so it shouldn't be overlooked that the current winning streak is also correlated to a reduction in his minutes.

He had +2 and +12 on/off court stat in two of those wins and -2 vs Cavs - so compared to losing streaks it is much better. He usually gets attacked right from the start, which what all smart coaches do when they see rookie center starting the game. Playing with Bargs was especially bad for him as Bargs is probably second worst /laziest interior defender in NBA ( I would nominate Boozer as nr.1). Now when he is on the floor together with Ed Davis who is great at help defense it has been way better.
And even if it small sample he is not the worst... Fields, Gray and McQuire had worse then him based on 82games.com.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

And even if it small sample he is not the worst... Fields, Gray and McQuire had worse then him based on 82games.com.

No they aren't, not even close. Jonas is -9 in the on/off number (which is different than +/- BTW), the next worse is Gray (all 5 minutes a game of him) at just about -6. Besides, those 3 are scrubs, if that is all you got then it's probably even worse that what I said originally.

TheMagnus wrote:

Calgary Jazz wrote:

And even if it small sample he is not the worst... Fields, Gray and McQuire had worse then him based on 82games.com.

No they aren't, not even close. Jonas is -9 in the on/off number (which is different than +/- BTW), the next worse is Gray (all 5 minutes a game of him) at just about -6. Besides, those 3 are scrubs, if that is all you got then it's probably even worse that what I said originally.

Ok I see what you mean.. I was looking at simple rating ( one in green column) which includes combo of on/off court plus own vs opponents production.

Just found this article perfectly illustrating my point about the reason for the Raptors improvement really beginning and ending with getting Undrea out of the lineup...

http://wagesofwins.com/2012/12/20/the-mvp-race-part-2-depth-charts-least-valuable-players-and-the-sunk-cost-fallacy/


In summary, Bargninny is not just a negative factor on the court, but he's the worst player ever to play as bad as he does and still play many minutes as he does. But it's not only addition by subtraction, it's also addition by addition, because Davis has been one of the NBA's best bench players this season.

All told, according to this article, taking Undrea out of the lineup makes the Raptors over 11 points better per 48 minutes. So you divide that roughly in half to account for the direct transfer of minutes form Bargninny to more productive players and you have an improvement of around 5 points a game. That is enough to make them a .500 team this season and explain a 4 game win streak against other mid to lower tier teams. It's also, coincidentally, what most people expected of them before the season started.

Raptors win 5 in a row, but JV broke his ring finger on shooting hand when fighting for lose ball... freak injury.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Raptors win 5 in a row, but JV broke his ring finger on shooting hand when fighting for lose ball... freak injury.

Yikes, that sucks, but at least it's not a joint injury.

JV is back from his injury and looks like there is no way Casey can keep him of lineup after yesterdays OT win vs Indiana. 4th double double of the season ( 14pts/13reb,2blk) in 26min vs Hibbert and West. Not bad. It will be interesting to watch him vs Antony Davis tomorrow.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

JV is back from his injury and looks like there is no way Casey can keep him of lineup after yesterdays OT win vs Indiana. 4th double double of the season ( 14pts/13reb,2blk) in 26min vs Hibbert and West. Not bad. It will be interesting to watch him vs Antony Davis tomorrow.

No, it won't. What would be fun is to see Tyler Hansbrough taking JV down with a nice wrestling move! Anyone see that? It felt so good! Tyler gets enforcer points. In the JV vs. Kanter debate, Kanter is still winning.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

JV is back from his injury and looks like there is no way Casey can keep him of lineup after yesterdays OT win vs Indiana. 4th double double of the season ( 14pts/13reb,2blk) in 26min vs Hibbert and West. Not bad. It will be interesting to watch him vs Antony Davis tomorrow.

Yea. Hopefully Jonas can find some way to beat out Erin Grey.

Saint Louis wrote:

Calgary Jazz wrote:

JV is back from his injury and looks like there is no way Casey can keep him of lineup after yesterdays OT win vs Indiana. 4th double double of the season ( 14pts/13reb,2blk) in 26min vs Hibbert and West. Not bad. It will be interesting to watch him vs Antony Davis tomorrow.

No, it won't. What would be fun is to see Tyler Hansbrough taking JV down with a nice wrestling move! Anyone see that? It felt so good! Tyler gets enforcer points. In the JV vs. Kanter debate, Kanter is still winning.

Hansborough is dirty ass punk with limited skills. He somehow manages to hack and foul every game yet gets away with it. I mean I would lave to have him on the Jazz as enforecer, but man, he is like mini Lambeer...
As far as Kanter winning, sorry but it is opposite for me. Career doubles doubles 4-1 advantage JV with Kanter 4 times more games played.

Mutangclan wrote:

Yea. Hopefully Jonas can find some way to beat out Erin Grey.

Done deal.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Yea. Hopefully Jonas can find some way to beat out Erin Grey.

Done deal.

Impressive!!!