Jonas Valanciunas

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

I do have a question though: how come, when Kanter is and has been playing behind two All star type players, and JV has not, does that not matter to you?

Jazz have no All star type players unfortunately.
Secondly, it proves JV's superiority even more as his production is mostly vs starters with little usage rate while Kanter's vs second units with much higher usage rate. Not sure how you can ignore that.
So FIBA experts who voted JV as best young player and did not even mentioned Kanter in top 10 are stupid, biased, naked ( lol magnus) as well? I am not even talking about fans as they obviously can be biased in voting as most of them vote for their countrymen. Seriously you folks are blinded by homeristic love of Jazz players. Which is fine as long as we do not go to extremes. It was same debates with DWill vs Chris Paul with bunch of you on old tribtalk ready to kill anybody who said that Paul was better which was so obvious to anybody outside of Utah.
If situation would be reversed and JV would be playing now for Jazz and Kanter for Raptors and their numbers would be same none of you would argue that JV has better ceiling and future - just admit it. You would all be agreeing with what I am saying now.

If Raps offered JV straight up for kanter i would say hell NO! Kanter has shown he has game and is gonna be a bright spot for the jazz next few years. Listen to harp how good the kid is now. Not played any ball till was like 15 and is only 20 years old.Plz he still learning the game. His high is so much more than jonas its not even funny!

Richardale wrote:

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

I do have a question though: how come, when Kanter is and has been playing behind two All star type players, and JV has not, does that not matter to you?

Jazz have no All star type players unfortunately.
Secondly, it proves JV's superiority even more as his production is mostly vs starters with little usage rate while Kanter's vs second units with much higher usage rate. Not sure how you can ignore that.
So FIBA experts who voted JV as best young player and did not even mentioned Kanter in top 10 are stupid, biased, naked ( lol magnus) as well? I am not even talking about fans as they obviously can be biased in voting as most of them vote for their countrymen. Seriously you folks are blinded by homeristic love of Jazz players. Which is fine as long as we do not go to extremes. It was same debates with DWill vs Chris Paul with bunch of you on old tribtalk ready to kill anybody who said that Paul was better which was so obvious to anybody outside of Utah.
If situation would be reversed and JV would be playing now for Jazz and Kanter for Raptors and their numbers would be same none of you would argue that JV has better ceiling and future - just admit it. You would all be agreeing with what I am saying now.

If Raps offered JV straight up for kanter i would say hell NO! Kanter has shown he has game and is gonna be a bright spot for the jazz next few years. Listen to harp how good the kid is now. Not played any ball till was like 15 and is only 20 years old.Plz he still learning the game. His high is so much more than jonas its not even funny!

True story! Also if Kanter wasn't behind Al, Milsap and Favors in the rotation and got more consistent minutes, he would be much further along in his development. The kid is a special player and someday soon it will not even be able to be argued. The guys comes into the game and immediately makes a positive impact.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

It was same debates with DWill vs Chris Paul with bunch of you on old tribtalk ready to kill anybody who said that Paul was better which was so obvious to anybody outside of Utah.

I'll comment on this, since it has nothing to do with the silly Enes vs Jonas debate.....

I remember watching ESPN & TNT analists constantly comparing the two. Sometimes DWill got more love, sometimes Paul. I will say that it was probably about 60/40 for Paul, but the debate definitely existed in the minds of many people outside of Utah. Deron gave Paul a serious run for his money for a year or two, but has obvisouly fallen out of that conversation now.

zero24gravity wrote:

Calgary Jazz wrote:

It was same debates with DWill vs Chris Paul with bunch of you on old tribtalk ready to kill anybody who said that Paul was better which was so obvious to anybody outside of Utah.

I'll comment on this, since it has nothing to do with the silly Enes vs Jonas debate.....

I remember watching ESPN & TNT analists constantly comparing the two. Sometimes DWill got more love, sometimes Paul. I will say that it was probably about 60/40 for Paul, but the debate definitely existed in the minds of many people outside of Utah. Deron gave Paul a serious run for his money for a year or two, but has obvisouly fallen out of that conversation now.

Here's how that conversation ended for Jazz fans and Hornets/Pelicans fans:

Deron Williams value = 1 year of Devin Harris + 2 years of Marvin Williams, Enes Kanter, Derrick Favors, and a pick in the mid first round of this years draft.

Chris Pauls value = .5 years of Chris Kaman, Eric Gordon, Al-Farouq Aminu, and Austin Rivers

I don't know about you, but in terms of real value to their team, I'm pretty sure Deron Williams will always have more value to the Jazz than Paul had to the Hornets/Pelicans, and as a Jazz fan, that's all I really care about.

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

Calgary Jazz wrote:

It was same debates with DWill vs Chris Paul with bunch of you on old tribtalk ready to kill anybody who said that Paul was better which was so obvious to anybody outside of Utah.

I'll comment on this, since it has nothing to do with the silly Enes vs Jonas debate.....

I remember watching ESPN & TNT analists constantly comparing the two. Sometimes DWill got more love, sometimes Paul. I will say that it was probably about 60/40 for Paul, but the debate definitely existed in the minds of many people outside of Utah. Deron gave Paul a serious run for his money for a year or two, but has obvisouly fallen out of that conversation now.

Here's how that conversation ended for Jazz fans and Hornets/Pelicans fans:

Deron Williams value = 1 year of Devin Harris + 2 years of Marvin Williams, Enes Kanter, Derrick Favors, and a pick in the mid first round of this years draft.

Chris Pauls value = .5 years of Chris Kaman, Eric Gordon, Al-Farouq Aminu, and Austin Rivers

I don't know about you, but in terms of real value to their team, I'm pretty sure Deron Williams will always have more value to the Jazz than Paul had to the Hornets/Pelicans, and as a Jazz fan, that's all I really care about.

That's a great way to think of it. I like it!

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

I do have a question though: how come, when Kanter is and has been playing behind two All star type players, and JV has not, does that not matter to you?

Jazz have no All star type players unfortunately.
Secondly, it proves JV's superiority even more as his production is mostly vs starters with little usage rate while Kanter's vs second units with much higher usage rate. Not sure how you can ignore that.
So FIBA experts who voted JV as best young player and did not even mentioned Kanter in top 10 are stupid, biased, naked ( lol magnus) as well? I am not even talking about fans as they obviously can be biased in voting as most of them vote for their countrymen. Seriously you folks are blinded by homeristic love of Jazz players. Which is fine as long as we do not go to extremes. It was same debates with DWill vs Chris Paul with bunch of you on old tribtalk ready to kill anybody who said that Paul was better which was so obvious to anybody outside of Utah.
If situation would be reversed and JV would be playing now for Jazz and Kanter for Raptors and their numbers would be same none of you would argue that JV has better ceiling and future - just admit it. You would all be agreeing with what I am saying now.

[u]

SUPERIORITY??!!!! S U P E R I O R I T Y ????!!!!
aHAHAHAAAHAHAHAH, you are a trip man. Calgary, let me remind you, YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE THAT CARES. Jazz fans dont care about JV, you Raptor fans do.


Calgary Math: Kanter played 18 minutes and scored 8pts and grabbed 7 rebs. JV plays 29minutes, goes for 10 and 10, so that = JV is SUPERIOR!!! HAHA.

Lets try this again, after you avoided a question AGAIN: why do you discount that Kanter is playing behind great players like Al and Paul on a playoff team, and all JV has in front of him is Erin Grey and he's playing on a non-playoff team???

If Al is traded to Toronto, guess what, JV would be playing behind him. And I can see it now, then, THEN 36min stats matter, and you know, more of that crap about JV getting no respect from the refs blah blah.
Smart to discount per 36mins, so that no matter what you can scream about JV being better, when it isn't even a fair discussion. This is why people on here laugh at you.
If you were anything close to an Objective Expert like you self-titled yourself, you would actually BE , whats it called, ummmm, oh yea, objective, hah. But nope.

And there is what is most important to Calgary, his opinions.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

If situation would be reversed and JV would be playing now for Jazz and Kanter for Raptors and their numbers would be same none of you would argue that JV has better ceiling and future - just admit it. You would all be agreeing with what I am saying now.

No shit sherlock! Bet it took every minute of that doctoral education to figure that one out.

WE ARE JAZZ FANS!!

That's why you are naked you self deluded dip wad. every spec of evidence anybody can conjure indicates these two young players are so close in performance and potential that an argument about who is better comes entirely down to the subjective. Yet you, and you alone, insist that isn't so, that your subjective BS is better than ours, and that we are just stupid homers.

So, since no amount of allegory or pointed critique of the logic of your argument is effective in helping you to understand that point, I'll just go back to name calling and passive aggressive bullying.

Make sure you keep us updated on JVs progress there Calgary Raptors, we're all dying to know.

Anybody else find it funny/sad that neither JV or Kanter were selected to play in the rising stars game but Tristan Thompson was?

Guess we shouldn't, since Calgary Raptors has convincingly argued per minute stat's don't matter the hard truth is that Thompson is clearly the better player and is kicking the pants off of both of them.

That's right, you dumb asses are all just stupid homers, Tristan Thompson was the obvious pick here and you blew it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The worst part is that it's so obvious, literally EVERYBODY knows it but you!

TheMagnus wrote:

Anybody else find it funny/sad that neither JV or Kanter were selected to play in the rising stars game but Tristan Thompson was?

Guess we shouldn't, since Calgary Raptors has convincingly argued per minute stat's don't matter the hard truth is that Thompson is clearly the better player and is kicking the pants off of both of them.

That's right, you dumb asses are all just stupid homers, Tristan Thompson was the obvious pick here and you blew it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The worst part is that it's so obvious, literally EVERYBODY knows it but you!

Haaaaah.......I hear you cluckin big chicken.....rep point!

I was just over at NBA.com and noticed they have completely revamped their statistics area. The old efficiency per 48 minutes was hard to find, but I found it and Kanter is coming in at 25.9 and Tristan Thompson at 24.7. Favors is at 27.1. These are pretty good ratings for young players. For some reason, I can't locate JV's name in the list:

http://stats.nba.com/leadersGrid.html?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per48&Scope=S&StatCategory=REB&sortField=EFF&sortOrder=DES&rowsPerPage=100&pageNo=1

I got it Crunch, was under Rookies. Jesus, I mean Jonas came in at 23.3...hmmmmm

Calgary, I see you got your question in, thats good, hard to get those darn hoopsworld guys to respond. And he even agrees with you. Good for you man, good for you.

Corey
Jonas Valancious gets the a$$ end of every call. No matter on offensive or defense the referees always seem to decide he was the one fouling. I get frustrated during the games for him. You should have seen some of the phantom calls he got against Amare and NYK the other night. But this may just be my Raptors goggles speaking. Questions: Do you agree with my view of Jonas and the officiating? And which player(s) have you felt always gets the butt end of calls?
Derek Page
Younger players, rookies in particular, who haven’t gained the “respect” of the officials generally don’t get the calls. It’s absurd and it’s ridiculous but that’s the NBA.

Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-all-star-saturday-night-chat-with-derek-page/#JFPu0L2vwocfjHIA.99

Crunchtime1 wrote:

I was just over at NBA.com and noticed they have completely revamped their statistics area. The old efficiency per 48 minutes was hard to find, but I found it and Kanter is coming in at 25.9 and Tristan Thompson at 24.7. Favors is at 27.1. These are pretty good ratings for young players. For some reason, I can't locate JV's name in the list:

http://stats.nba.com/leadersGrid.html?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per48&Scope=S&StatCategory=REB&sortField=EFF&sortOrder=DES&rowsPerPage=100&pageNo=1

Don't you just love the new NBA stat's pages? It's like a huge candy store for stats geeks.

TheMagnus wrote:

Don't you just love the new NBA stat's pages? It's like a huge candy store for stats geeks.

Yeah, I am still finding my way around there. What does the "PIE" stat stand for?

Crunchtime1 wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Don't you just love the new NBA stat's pages? It's like a huge candy store for stats geeks.

Yeah, I am still finding my way around there. What does the "PIE" stat stand for?

According to the Glossary it is "Player Impact Estimate", and it is kind of like per only normalized for the total number of stats in the game. Basically it gives the percentage of the total box score that can be attributed to each player for any given game.

TheMagnus wrote:

Crunchtime1 wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Don't you just love the new NBA stat's pages? It's like a huge candy store for stats geeks.

Yeah, I am still finding my way around there. What does the "PIE" stat stand for?

According to the Glossary it is "Player Impact Estimate", and it is kind of like per only normalized for the total number of stats in the game. Basically it gives the percentage of the total box score that can be attributed to each player for any given game.

Thanks. Somehow I kept missing that glossary tab.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

JV is back from his injury and looks like there is no way Casey can keep him of lineup after yesterdays OT win vs Indiana. 4th double double of the season ( 14pts/13reb,2blk) in 26min vs Hibbert and West. Not bad. It will be interesting to watch him vs Antony Davis tomorrow.

Not to bad of stats but did you see Enes stats? 23 points 22 rebs. OH yea thats why nobody has seen you for a week. Ha Ha Ha.Kid was rocking it baby!

Rank FG FT PTS REB AST STL BLK TO

#117 .563 .913 9.9 6.0 0.6 0.6 0.9 1.8

#206 .505 .733 6.7 5.6 0.8 0.3 1.1 1.3


Alright folks, a little game to take a breather from my FCORBINQUICKSANDCOACHING rants.

There are two stat lines, for two young Centers. One of those centers, has started every game the past 30 days, and one of those Centers has had one start. One has clearly dominated the other.......hmmmmm.......Care to take a guess at who is who???

I'll give you a clue. One, is for us Jazz fans, and one is for you Raptors fan. Wanna guess, huh huh??

Who has all that SUPERIORITY again????

Mutangclan wrote:

Rank FG FT PTS REB AST STL BLK TO

#117 .563 .913 9.9 6.0 0.6 0.6 0.9 1.8

#206 .505 .733 6.7 5.6 0.8 0.3 1.1 1.3


Alright folks, a little game to take a breather from my FCORBINQUICKSANDCOACHING rants.

There are two stat lines, for two young Centers. One of those centers, has started every game the past 30 days, and one of those Centers has had one start. One has clearly dominated the other.......hmmmmm.......Care to take a guess at who is who???

I'll give you a clue. One, is for us Jazz fans, and one is for you Raptors fan. Wanna guess, huh huh??

Who has all that SUPERIORITY again????

congrats, you made your point - Enes had better stats in 13 game span. And FYI, JV did not start in 2 of those games. I can find a month or similar few game span where JV was dominant, would that make any difference? ... CJ once scored 41 pts let remind you... Is he still playing for the Jazz?

here, same players in different month during 14 game span:

5.4 pts, 3.5reb, 0.5ast, 0.3stl, 0.4 blk, 1.1 TO 53.6% FG, 63.2% FT
vs
9.0pts, 5.5 reb, 1.4ast, 0.3stl, 1.2blk, 1.5TO, 52.8FG, 76.9% FT.

Clearly superior and it is not even close.

My favorite part of the last little bit is Kanter emphatically putting a bullet in the head of this whole "but Kanter is going agaisnt scrubs" nonsense.

No need to split hairs here gentlemen...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=kanteen01&y1=2012&p2=valanjo01&y2=2013

Boom...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=kanteen01&y1=2013&p2=valanjo01&y2=2013

Boom...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=kanteen01&y1=2013&p2=valanjo01&y2=2013


Boom!

Come see me again in 3 years Calg, this round is OVER!

Send us out Big Turkey....

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Rank FG FT PTS REB AST STL BLK TO

#117 .563 .913 9.9 6.0 0.6 0.6 0.9 1.8

#206 .505 .733 6.7 5.6 0.8 0.3 1.1 1.3


Alright folks, a little game to take a breather from my FCORBINQUICKSANDCOACHING rants.

There are two stat lines, for two young Centers. One of those centers, has started every game the past 30 days, and one of those Centers has had one start. One has clearly dominated the other.......hmmmmm.......Care to take a guess at who is who???

I'll give you a clue. One, is for us Jazz fans, and one is for you Raptors fan. Wanna guess, huh huh??

Who has all that SUPERIORITY again????

congrats, you made your point - Enes had better stats in 13 game span. And FYI, JV did not start in 2 of those games. I can find a month or similar few game span where JV was dominant, would that make any difference? ... CJ once scored 41 pts let remind you... Is he still playing for the Jazz?

Aahahahahaha, The Great Resister!!!! Ohhhh, HAH!! TWO GAMES he didn't start, excuse me...UNDERKANTER STARTED 1!! To JV's, what, 11 !! Hah! You just wont give it up....

Oh, and silly me, I forgot: JV playing 20mins to Kanters 18mins this past month......boom.

Thats the point Calgary Raptors, ITS A WHOLE MONTH OF PRODUCTION. Kanter finally getting the minutes that JV has been handed all year. You just keep backing that up, keep backing that truck up that you called a JV Superiority Truck......it's getting farther and farther away.
Keep in mind Calgary, you better stay hungry....YOU wanted to compare their seasons this year, HAH!!

I'll just let you soak up Magnus' epic post just above.... /\

Mutangclan wrote:

Aahahahahaha, The Great Resister!!!! Ohhhh, HAH!! TWO GAMES he didn't start, excuse me...UNDERKANTER STARTED 1!! To JV's, what, 11 !! Hah! You just wont give it up....

Oh, and silly me, I forgot: JV playing 20mins to Kanters 18mins this past month......boom.

I'll just let you soak up Magnus' epic post just above.... /\

Why you are so focused on starting? If any it puts JV at disatvantage as he is playing with and vs best players and is not used as much as if he would be used if he plays with second unit vs second unit.
From all "epic" magnus post I can see one thing which jumps out - their stats are very similar except Kanter's usage rate is 22% vs JV 16%.
What else is there? Rookie season stats? JV much better. Why magnus "boomed " that one???
This season? About the same even if you look at advanced stats and keeping usage rate in mind. Nothing to "boom" about.
And yes, I can't wait when we can look at their stats 3 years from now. Will be fun.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Aahahahahaha, The Great Resister!!!! Ohhhh, HAH!! TWO GAMES he didn't start, excuse me...UNDERKANTER STARTED 1!! To JV's, what, 11 !! Hah! You just wont give it up....

Oh, and silly me, I forgot: JV playing 20mins to Kanters 18mins this past month......boom.

I'll just let you soak up Magnus' epic post just above.... /\

Why you are so focused on starting? If any it puts JV at disatvantage as he is playing with and vs best players and is not used as much as if he would be used if he plays with second unit vs second unit.
From all "epic" magnus post I can see one thing which jumps out - their stats are very similar except Kanter's usage rate is 22% vs JV 16%.
What else is there? Rookie season stats? JV much better. Why magnus "boomed " that one???
This season? About the same even if you look at advanced stats and keeping usage rate in mind. Nothing to "boom" about.
And yes, I can't wait when we can look at their stats 3 years from now. Will be fun.

I'm not, which is why I added, JV playing 20mins to Kanters 18mins. But then, of course there's another excuse for why JV isn't as good.

Yea, you're such a huge Jazz fan......

What do you mean?? After next year, Kanter is going to fulfill the "BUST" title you proclaimed, and if he's lucky he'll be in the D league, according to you. Right CC?

Calgary Raptors, you really don't get it do you? So sad...

I'm going to go ahead and write your concession speech for you, and any time you are ready to get your Jazz fan card back you just repost this under your name and all will be forgiven....

Quote :

I, Calgary [insert name of favorite team here], do solemnly admit that I was wrong about Enes Kanter. I admit that regardless of whether or not he was the player I wanted chosen with the 3rd pick in the 2011 NBA draft, he appears to be a very good player with great potential and at the current time seems worthy of that pick. I hereby declare that as a [insert name of favorite team here] fan, I am excited to have a young player with such potential as Enes Kanter has on my favorite team, and I am excited to see him excelling in his current role. My greatest wish for my favorite team, the [insert name of favorite team here], is that Enes Kanter will continue to grow and excell, proving all of his doubters (myself included) wrong, that he will become a dominant player in the NBA, and that he will help bring on a new era of great Jazz basketball.

Sincerely,

________________

You're welcome.

Well CC, season is over for Kanter. And although I've already confirmed that you can't evaluate talent, Gordon Hayward and Underkanter have made you look foolish, and KOC has shown to be a great GM and made great picks, we still have to compare your Raptors player JV against my Jazz' player UnderKanter, at your request:

JV:

22mins per, 55%, 76%, 7.9pts, 5.8rebs, .7ast, .3stl, 1blk

UnderKanter:

15mins per, 54%, 80%FT, 7.2pts, 4.3rebs, .4ast, .4stl, .5blk


So I'll be!!! 7 less minutes yet......ANOTHER check in UnderKanters box.....!!!!!

How do you spell Enes Kanter > Jonas Valanciunas????