Jonas Valanciunas

Mutangclan wrote:

Well CC, season is over for Kanter. And although I've already confirmed that you can't evaluate talent, Gordon Hayward and Underkanter have made you look foolish, and KOC has shown to be a great GM and made great picks, we still have to compare your Raptors player JV against my Jazz' player UnderKanter, at your request:

JV:

22mins per, 55%, 76%, 7.9pts, 5.8rebs, .7ast, .3stl, 1blk

UnderKanter:

15mins per, 54%, 80%FT, 7.2pts, 4.3rebs, .4ast, .4stl, .5blk


So I'll be!!! 7 less minutes yet......ANOTHER check in UnderKanters box.....!!!!!

How do you spell Enes Kanter > Jonas Valanciunas????

I am sad Enes got injured as he was playing really well before it. Kind of interesting how they both got hit by freak injuries this season. JV broke finger diving on the floor and Enes dislocated shoulder diving on the floor as well. Can't take hustle and effort away from both of these guys.
But lets look at Jonas now when Raptors are out of playoffs and he is finally getting minutes and touches. Last 13 games:
16.7 points, 9.2 rebounds, 2.14 blocks, .740ts% - thats rookie who is getting very few plays run for him. Very likely what is going to happen in 3-4 years - 20/10/2.5 multiple time All star/franchise center - as I predicted.

Totals for season:

JV: 8.3 pts, 6.0 reb, 0.8ast, 0.3stl, 1.2blk. .556fg%, .759FT%
Enes: 7.2pts, 4.3reb, 0.4ast, 0.4stl, 0.5blk, .544fg%, .795FT%

JV plays 7.8min more but keep in mind Enes has 22.3% usage rate vs 16% usage rate for JV.

You can't spell Enes> JV Mutang, sorry, just not true. I admitted I was wrong about Enes and he is certainly better then I said before and after draft but he is no better then JV, lets be objective here.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Well CC, season is over for Kanter. And although I've already confirmed that you can't evaluate talent, Gordon Hayward and Underkanter have made you look foolish, and KOC has shown to be a great GM and made great picks, we still have to compare your Raptors player JV against my Jazz' player UnderKanter, at your request:

JV:

22mins per, 55%, 76%, 7.9pts, 5.8rebs, .7ast, .3stl, 1blk

UnderKanter:

15mins per, 54%, 80%FT, 7.2pts, 4.3rebs, .4ast, .4stl, .5blk


So I'll be!!! 7 less minutes yet......ANOTHER check in UnderKanters box.....!!!!!

How do you spell Enes Kanter > Jonas Valanciunas????

I am sad Enes got injured as he was playing really well before it. Kind of interesting how they both got hit by freak injuries this season. JV broke finger diving on the floor and Enes dislocated shoulder diving on the floor as well. Can't take hustle and effort away from both of these guys.
But lets look at Jonas now when Raptors are out of playoffs and he is finally getting minutes and touches. Last 13 games:
16.7 points, 9.2 rebounds, 2.14 blocks, .740ts% - thats rookie who is getting very few plays run for him. Very likely what is going to happen in 3-4 years - 20/10/2.5 multiple time All star/franchise center - as I predicted.

Totals for season:

JV: 8.3 pts, 6.0 reb, 0.8ast, 0.3stl, 1.2blk. .556fg%, .759FT%
Enes: 7.2pts, 4.3reb, 0.4ast, 0.4stl, 0.5blk, .544fg%, .795FT%

JV plays 7.8min more but keep in mind Enes has 22.3% usage rate vs 16% usage rate for JV.

You can't spell Enes> JV Mutang, sorry, just not true. I admitted I was wrong about Enes and he is certainly better then I said before and after draft but he is no better then JV, lets be objective here.

You act like high usage improves a players efficiency, when usually it's the opposite, as JV's usage goes up his scoring efficiency will go down. The fact that Kanters usage is so high and he still scores with so much efficiency (and in so many different ways) bodes very well for him.

Solid post though, rep point for you.

TheMagnus wrote:

You act like high usage improves a players efficiency, when usually it's the opposite, as JV's usage goes up his scoring efficiency will go down. The fact that Kanters usage is so high and he still scores with so much efficiency (and in so many different ways) bodes very well for him.

Correct me if I am wrong but I look at usage rate in very simple way. Higher usage rate to me equals more touches, more opportunities to score. I agree that JV's FG% may drop with increased rate but his scoring average/FT attempts should make a nice jump.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

You act like high usage improves a players efficiency, when usually it's the opposite, as JV's usage goes up his scoring efficiency will go down. The fact that Kanters usage is so high and he still scores with so much efficiency (and in so many different ways) bodes very well for him.

Correct me if I am wrong but I look at usage rate in very simple way. Higher usage rate to me equals more touches, more opportunities to score. I agree that JV's FG% may drop with increased rate but his scoring average/FT attempts should make a nice jump.

That's not quite what usage is, from a statistical standpoint usage really just measures how many plays END with an action from a particular player (shot, FT's, Turnover), so technically a player can touch the ball a hundred times a game and not have a very high usage.

In JV's case I think it depends, he may never get more usage, or at least not usage like Kanter. Depends on the system, depends on whether or not JV is really able to assert himself in the post. If JV relies on pick and rolls and being set up by other players for his buckets, like he primarily does now, then he will probably remain a high efficiency/medium usage player, but if he becomes a guy that they want to feed the ball to in the high or low post in addition to his other stuff then he may become a higher usage guy.

Another thing to point out is that JV may be better served by not being a high usage guy. He's going to be a great defender and he cares about D, and they have shown that in general making guys higher usage offensively tends to lower per minute performance accross the board, hurting rebounding and defensive stats, even though it makes the box score look nice.

Personally, I think JV looks like a young Marc Gasol, but a little quicker. I think he will be a highly skilled big that maybe isn't your "go-to" guy offensively, but is really the "pivot" for his team both offensively and defensively.

I think Kanter actually looks like a young Al Jefferson, but a lot quicker, which is no coincidence given the work he has put in with Jefferson as a mentor this season. I think he is going to be one of the best post scorers in the NBA in a couple of years. He's going to be a good defender, but not a game changer on that end. He'll be more from the Elton Brand (post 2010) school of great position D and strong rebounding than the Tyson Chandler everywhere paint protector. And that's fine, because Favors is an elite defender, and the two of them should compliment eachother perfectly.

Thanks for explanation about usage rate magnus. So last game vs Wizards JV got lots of touches near the rim which resulted in career high in pts ( 24), FT attempted and FT made ( 18-16) and his 8th double double of the season. I think he should become primary offensive option in 3-4 years as his desire to play close to the rim and ability to draw fouls makes him very efficient. I really doubt the will become less efficient with higher usage rate especially when he gets stronger and develops more post up moves. Last 5 games his numbers are 18.4pts/9.4reb, 2.8blk. Small sample but damn impressive for rookie big man.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Thanks for explanation about usage rate magnus. So last game vs Wizards JV got lots of touches near the rim which resulted in career high in pts ( 24), FT attempted and FT made ( 18-16) and his 8th double double of the season. I think he should become primary offensive option in 3-4 years as his desire to play close to the rim and ability to draw fouls makes him very efficient. I really doubt the will become less efficient with higher usage rate especially when he gets stronger and develops more post up moves. Last 5 games his numbers are 18.4pts/9.4reb, 2.8blk. Small sample but damn impressive for rookie big man.

I know that I've appreciated his fantasy output recently. He's been a great plug in player for teams that I am behind in games player at center.

Forgive my impertinence, Calgs, but you are touting JV's "great" performances of late as if they were some sort of significant accomplishment. And yet, these are now meaningless games that the Raptors are playing. A couple of years ago, when GH was putting up big numbers towards the end of the season, you discounted his accomplishments by saying that those games were meaningless. This seems like a bit of hypocrisy to me.

What say you, sir?

thejazzkickazz wrote:

Forgive my impertinence, Calgs, but you are touting JV's "great" performances of late as if they were some sort of significant accomplishment. And yet, these are now meaningless games that the Raptors are playing. A couple of years ago, when GH was putting up big numbers towards the end of the season, you discounted his accomplishments by saying that those games were meaningless. This seems like a bit of hypocrisy to me.

What say you, sir?

I agree with you that Raptors being out of playoffs really do not have anything to play for but pride, so in a way you are right, these stats Jonas posting right now are in meaningless games in a big picture. But for him every game and minute counts when it comes to developement and understanding of the NBA game, he missed 19 games to a broken finger in the middle of the season, lets not forget about it. He made big improvement compared to start of the season - able to stay on the floor and avoid silly fouls, got stronger, shot selection much improved and was named Eastern conference rookie of the month for March BTW. K.Lowry said that because they will have same starting 5 next season it is crucial for them to keep playing a lot together and develop chemistry and understanding of each other which will hopefully transfer to the other season.
I believe if we looking at Gordon's situation we were talking about few games ( particularly vs Denver and at Lakers), not about full month of great production. At the end of the day I was wrong about it and Gordon proved that those games where actually good indication what to expect from him in the future. So, mea culpa as to say.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

thejazzkickazz wrote:

Forgive my impertinence, Calgs, but you are touting JV's "great" performances of late as if they were some sort of significant accomplishment. And yet, these are now meaningless games that the Raptors are playing. A couple of years ago, when GH was putting up big numbers towards the end of the season, you discounted his accomplishments by saying that those games were meaningless. This seems like a bit of hypocrisy to me.

What say you, sir?

I agree with you that Raptors being out of playoffs really do not have anything to play for but pride, so in a way you are right, these stats Jonas posting right now are in meaningless games in a big picture. But for him every game and minute counts when it comes to developement and understanding of the NBA game, he missed 19 games to a broken finger in the middle of the season, lets not forget about it. He made big improvement compared to start of the season - able to stay on the floor and avoid silly fouls, got stronger, shot selection much improved and was named Eastern conference rookie of the month for March BTW. K.Lowry said that because they will have same starting 5 next season it is crucial for them to keep playing a lot together and develop chemistry and understanding of each other which will hopefully transfer to the other season.
I believe if we looking at Gordon's situation we were talking about few games ( particularly vs Denver and at Lakers), not about full month of great production. At the end of the day I was wrong about it and Gordon proved that those games where actually good indication what to expect from him in the future. So, mea culpa as to say.

I'm not sure who this new Calg is, but I like him. Time to get you out of the rep point doghouse...

Calgary Jazz wrote:

thejazzkickazz wrote:

Forgive my impertinence, Calgs, but you are touting JV's "great" performances of late as if they were some sort of significant accomplishment. And yet, these are now meaningless games that the Raptors are playing. A couple of years ago, when GH was putting up big numbers towards the end of the season, you discounted his accomplishments by saying that those games were meaningless. This seems like a bit of hypocrisy to me.

What say you, sir?

I agree with you that Raptors being out of playoffs really do not have anything to play for but pride, so in a way you are right, these stats Jonas posting right now are in meaningless games in a big picture. But for him every game and minute counts when it comes to developement and understanding of the NBA game, he missed 19 games to a broken finger in the middle of the season, lets not forget about it. He made big improvement compared to start of the season - able to stay on the floor and avoid silly fouls, got stronger, shot selection much improved and was named Eastern conference rookie of the month for March BTW. K.Lowry said that because they will have same starting 5 next season it is crucial for them to keep playing a lot together and develop chemistry and understanding of each other which will hopefully transfer to the other season.
I believe if we looking at Gordon's situation we were talking about few games ( particularly vs Denver and at Lakers), not about full month of great production. At the end of the day I was wrong about it and Gordon proved that those games where actually good indication what to expect from him in the future. So, mea culpa as to say.

Wow, +1 from me, too.

TheMagnus wrote:

I'm not sure who this new Calg is, but I like him. Time to get you out of the rep point doghouse...

I second that.

And if I'm ever wrong, I promise to admit it as well.

Whoa! Wait! What happened??? What did I miss?? Everybody is freaking out! What is it?? It's like elephants flew or something.....Someone fill me in, I want to be amazed too.

Mutangclan wrote:

Whoa! Wait! What happened??? What did I miss?? Everybody is freaking out! What is it?? It's like elephants flew or something.....Someone fill me in, I want to be amazed too.

It was sort of buried at the end of some JV rambling, but I've stripped that away so brace yourself...

Calgary Jazz wrote:

I believe if we looking at Gordon's situation we were talking about few games ( particularly vs Denver and at Lakers), not about full month of great production. At the end of the day I was wrong about it and Gordon proved that those games where actually good indication what to expect from him in the future. So, mea culpa as to say.

I know, right?

TheMagnus wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Whoa! Wait! What happened??? What did I miss?? Everybody is freaking out! What is it?? It's like elephants flew or something.....Someone fill me in, I want to be amazed too.

It was sort of buried at the end of some JV rambling, but I've stripped that away so brace yourself...

Calgary Jazz wrote:

I believe if we looking at Gordon's situation we were talking about few games ( particularly vs Denver and at Lakers), not about full month of great production. At the end of the day I was wrong about it and Gordon proved that those games where actually good indication what to expect from him in the future. So, mea culpa as to say.

I know, right?

Ima need to sit down.....

Mutangclan wrote:

Ima need to sit down.....

Just send me some crow wings. Hope it at least tastes like chicken

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Ima need to sit down.....

Just send me some crow wings. Hope it at least tastes like chicken

Boom!!!

No further details on this yet, but Jonas left the game last night & was taken to the hospital after getting hit in the neck on the last play of the game vs the Bulls.

(article includes video)

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/4/9/4207552/jonas-valanciunas-injury-raptors-vs-bulls-neck

Wonder if both Jonas & Enes will finish their seasons early due to injury.

zero24gravity wrote:

No further details on this yet, but Jonas left the game last night & was taken to the hospital after getting hit in the neck on the last play of the game vs the Bulls.

(article includes video)

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/4/9/4207552/jonas-valanciunas-injury-raptors-vs-bulls-neck

Wonder if both Jonas & Enes will finish their seasons early due to injury.

Another freak injury, althought does not look that serious - more like grade 1 whiplash. He told from hospital that he is fine, but knowing NBA policies regarding concusions I doubt that he will play anymore this season. I had something similar, 3 visits to chiropractor and I was fine.

http://blog.raptors.com/valancuinas-suffers-whiplash-type-injury-against-bulls/

This is better video to see what happened, he was leaning towards the ball and Rudy hit his head with his shoulder.

thejazzkickazz wrote:

Calgary Jazz wrote:

thejazzkickazz wrote:

Forgive my impertinence, Calgs, but you are touting JV's "great" performances of late as if they were some sort of significant accomplishment. And yet, these are now meaningless games that the Raptors are playing. A couple of years ago, when GH was putting up big numbers towards the end of the season, you discounted his accomplishments by saying that those games were meaningless. This seems like a bit of hypocrisy to me.

What say you, sir?

I agree with you that Raptors being out of playoffs really do not have anything to play for but pride, so in a way you are right, these stats Jonas posting right now are in meaningless games in a big picture. But for him every game and minute counts when it comes to developement and understanding of the NBA game, he missed 19 games to a broken finger in the middle of the season, lets not forget about it. He made big improvement compared to start of the season - able to stay on the floor and avoid silly fouls, got stronger, shot selection much improved and was named Eastern conference rookie of the month for March BTW. K.Lowry said that because they will have same starting 5 next season it is crucial for them to keep playing a lot together and develop chemistry and understanding of each other which will hopefully transfer to the other season.
I believe if we looking at Gordon's situation we were talking about few games ( particularly vs Denver and at Lakers), not about full month of great production. At the end of the day I was wrong about it and Gordon proved that those games where actually good indication what to expect from him in the future. So, mea culpa as to say.

Wow, +1 from me, too.

Me too!

So, where are we now? Valanciunos is potentially as good as Koufos? Better than Koufos? Better than Kanter? With Kanter's season ending injury, it's hard to tell. There's no doubt, though, that Valanchunkchunk can hit free throws and can be talked about in the circle of Pekovich.

Saint Louis wrote:

So, where are we now? Valanciunos is potentially as good as Koufos? Better than Koufos? Better than Kanter? With Kanter's season ending injury, it's hard to tell. There's no doubt, though, that Valanchunkchunk can hit free throws and can be talked about in the circle of Pekovich.

My opinion of the two, is that they can be looked at equally for the most part, but with Kanter to this point showing slightly more skills. Which is fine by me. One is better than the other in some areas and vice versa, but for the Jazz I have no doubt Kanter was the right pick for us.

Mutangclan wrote:

Saint Louis wrote:

So, where are we now? Valanciunos is potentially as good as Koufos? Better than Koufos? Better than Kanter? With Kanter's season ending injury, it's hard to tell. There's no doubt, though, that Valanchunkchunk can hit free throws and can be talked about in the circle of Pekovich.

My opinion of the two, is that they can be looked at equally for the most part. Which is fine by me. One is better than the other in some areas and vice versa, but for the Jazz I have no doubt Kanter was the right pick for us.

I agree with this. The Kanter/Favors combo compliments eachother better than a Jonas/Favors would. Kanter's post game is & will be the best of the three above mentioned players IMO, which goes perfectly with Favors as the best athelte & shotblocker of the group.

Kanter was the right pick for the Jazz, when compared to Jonas.

Final Jonas stats for the season:

FG .557, FT .789, Pts - 8.9, reb -6.0, ast -0.7, stl -0.3, blk 1.3.

His main challenge in the future will be defensive rotations and awareness. Offensively he is miles ahead where I though he will be in his first year and it is easy bet he will be averaging double digit scoring next year. Rebounding must improve as well - he has lots of free time during summer for first time in 4 years so I hope he spends it in weight room to become stronger and gain few more pounds of muscle.
Eurobasket in September will be really fun to watch. Numerous good NBA players will be playing and I am looking forward to it. Vucevic, Kanter, Asik, Valanciunas, Motiejunas, Gasols, Ibaka, Mozgov, AK, Koufos, Gortat and probably I am missing some others - that is nice collection of big men talent.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Final Jonas stats for the season:

FG .557, FT .789, Pts - 8.9, reb -6.0, ast -0.7, stl -0.3, blk 1.3.

His main challenge in the future will be defensive rotations and awareness. Offensively he is miles ahead where I though he will be in his first year and it is easy bet he will be averaging double digit scoring next year. Rebounding must improve as well - he has lots of free time during summer for first time in 4 years so I hope he spends it in weight room to become stronger and gain few more pounds of muscle.
Eurobasket in September will be really fun to watch. Numerous good NBA players will be playing and I am looking forward to it. Vucevic, Kanter, Asik, Valanciunas, Motiejunas, Gasols, Ibaka, Mozgov, AK, Koufos, Gortat and probably I am missing some others - that is nice collection of big men talent.

You sure all those guys are going to go? Seems likely that at least a few of them, including the Gasols and Kanter, may chose to sit this one out.

I just hope they all will play. Some of them coming of injuries like Kanter or Gortat might skip it, but I doubt Gasols will. I forgot to ad Noah and Pekovic to that list as well.