DC Deserves His Own Thread

After the Chicago game tonight I almost don't have words. What the hell is the point of starting DC if you give him 8 minutes? And in his first start, 14 minutes? I mean, seriously, he was getting more minutes off the bench so I am now in favor of sending DC back to the bench so he gets more minutes!

I actually empathize with Corbin right now - a lot of guys deserve minutes and it is a tough call on rotations. But, he makes the big bucks to coach an NBA team, so figure it the f-out; whatever he is doing isn't working and it looks like a death spin to the lottery. Or, its the players fault. Or the FO. We are just fans, what do we know? All I know is this is a really crappy year to be a Jazz fan. Something didn't jell and it is hugely disappointing given the horses on this team. The Jazz have a 10 man deep roster that should easily be in the hunt for the 5th/6th seed. Someone is blowing it.

MTJazz wrote:

After the Chicago game tonight I almost don't have words. What the hell is the point of starting DC if you give him 8 minutes? And in his first start, 14 minutes? I mean, seriously, he was getting more minutes off the bench so I am now in favor of sending DC back to the bench so he gets more minutes!

I actually empathize with Corbin right now - a lot of guys deserve minutes and it is a tough call on rotations. But, he makes the big bucks to coach an NBA team, so figure it the f-out; whatever he is doing isn't working and it looks like a death spin to the lottery. Or, its the players fault. Or the FO. We are just fans, what do we know? All I know is this is a really crappy year to be a Jazz fan. Something didn't jell and it is hugely disappointing given the horses on this team. The Jazz have a 10 man deep roster that should easily be in the hunt for the 5th/6th seed. Someone is blowing it.

Did DC exit early with injury? I missed first half, but thought i heard Bolerjack say something along those lines?

The Voice of Reason wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

After the Chicago game tonight I almost don't have words. What the hell is the point of starting DC if you give him 8 minutes? And in his first start, 14 minutes? I mean, seriously, he was getting more minutes off the bench so I am now in favor of sending DC back to the bench so he gets more minutes!

I actually empathize with Corbin right now - a lot of guys deserve minutes and it is a tough call on rotations. But, he makes the big bucks to coach an NBA team, so figure it the f-out; whatever he is doing isn't working and it looks like a death spin to the lottery. Or, its the players fault. Or the FO. We are just fans, what do we know? All I know is this is a really crappy year to be a Jazz fan. Something didn't jell and it is hugely disappointing given the horses on this team. The Jazz have a 10 man deep roster that should easily be in the hunt for the 5th/6th seed. Someone is blowing it.

Did DC exit early with injury? I missed first half, but thought i heard Bolerjack say something along those lines?

Don't know, I was box scoring it as my buddy just opened a new brew pub and right now I'm not really going to set aside too much time watching this slow motion train wreck that is the Jazz post All-star break season. I hope that is the case.

MTJazz wrote:

The Voice of Reason wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

After the Chicago game tonight I almost don't have words. What the hell is the point of starting DC if you give him 8 minutes? And in his first start, 14 minutes? I mean, seriously, he was getting more minutes off the bench so I am now in favor of sending DC back to the bench so he gets more minutes!

I actually empathize with Corbin right now - a lot of guys deserve minutes and it is a tough call on rotations. But, he makes the big bucks to coach an NBA team, so figure it the f-out; whatever he is doing isn't working and it looks like a death spin to the lottery. Or, its the players fault. Or the FO. We are just fans, what do we know? All I know is this is a really crappy year to be a Jazz fan. Something didn't jell and it is hugely disappointing given the horses on this team. The Jazz have a 10 man deep roster that should easily be in the hunt for the 5th/6th seed. Someone is blowing it.

Did DC exit early with injury? I missed first half, but thought i heard Bolerjack say something along those lines?

Don't know, I was box scoring it as my buddy just opened a new brew pub and right now I'm not really going to set aside too much time watching this slow motion train wreck that is the Jazz post All-star break season. I hope that is the case.

Umm.....I hope it's not the case. (Although I know what you meant)

The Voice of Reason wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

The Voice of Reason wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

After the Chicago game tonight I almost don't have words. What the hell is the point of starting DC if you give him 8 minutes? And in his first start, 14 minutes? I mean, seriously, he was getting more minutes off the bench so I am now in favor of sending DC back to the bench so he gets more minutes!

I actually empathize with Corbin right now - a lot of guys deserve minutes and it is a tough call on rotations. But, he makes the big bucks to coach an NBA team, so figure it the f-out; whatever he is doing isn't working and it looks like a death spin to the lottery. Or, its the players fault. Or the FO. We are just fans, what do we know? All I know is this is a really crappy year to be a Jazz fan. Something didn't jell and it is hugely disappointing given the horses on this team. The Jazz have a 10 man deep roster that should easily be in the hunt for the 5th/6th seed. Someone is blowing it.

Did DC exit early with injury? I missed first half, but thought i heard Bolerjack say something along those lines?

Don't know, I was box scoring it as my buddy just opened a new brew pub and right now I'm not really going to set aside too much time watching this slow motion train wreck that is the Jazz post All-star break season. I hope that is the case.

Umm.....I hope it's not the case. (Although I know what you meant)

thanks for getting that...ugh!

This whole freaking lossing just sucks but if you ask me Gh one shot to win from where he was i would take it any day. Just rushed it a tad.We move on and play hard. jazz slip out of the playoffs worst things have happened in jazzland. Future is bright even when we're fighting for a eighth seed. We have some of the best young talent in the league.

OK, looks like the "Start DC" thing is not such a good idea at this point...sigh.

MTJazz wrote:

OK, looks like the "Start DC" thing is not such a good idea at this point...sigh.

Is it big Al bog down ball? Its like the jazz have went backwards this year with there play? Start good and then play like they've never been on the floor before? Its like we just run around and hope someone can throw the ball in? Any kind of offense out there at all. Sloan ran a tight ship and players knew where they needed to be, Here not seeing it? Is it just me?

Richardale wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

OK, looks like the "Start DC" thing is not such a good idea at this point...sigh.

Is it big Al bog down ball? Its like the jazz have went backwards this year with there play? Start good and then play like they've never been on the floor before? Its like we just run around and hope someone can throw the ball in? Any kind of offense out there at all. Sloan ran a tight ship and players knew where they needed to be, Here not seeing it? Is it just me?

Well, for one thing, OKC was playing Contender Defense on the Jazz - stunning and impressive. When the Jazz got an open look they shat the bed. End of story, (besides the Jazz having a woeful white underbelly they show far too often these days). But this is a DC thread, don't jack it. DC has done absolutely squat as a starter, like really bad, worse than Marvin. How is it some guys are just better off the bench???

MTJazz wrote:

Richardale wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

OK, looks like the "Start DC" thing is not such a good idea at this point...sigh.

Is it big Al bog down ball? Its like the jazz have went backwards this year with there play? Start good and then play like they've never been on the floor before? Its like we just run around and hope someone can throw the ball in? Any kind of offense out there at all. Sloan ran a tight ship and players knew where they needed to be, Here not seeing it? Is it just me?

Well, for one thing, OKC was playing Contender Defense on the Jazz - stunning and impressive. When the Jazz got an open look they shat the bed. End of story, (besides the Jazz having a woeful white underbelly they show far too often these days). But this is a DC thread, don't jack it. DC has done absolutely squat as a starter, like really bad, worse than Marvin. How is it some guys are just better off the bench???

Its others in the lineup with, MTjazz

To many players playing me ball and not team ball. Guess we have to many on a contract year and this is what we get. Crap and throw DC right in the middle of it and that's what we get.

MTJazz wrote:

Richardale wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

OK, looks like the "Start DC" thing is not such a good idea at this point...sigh.

Is it big Al bog down ball? Its like the jazz have went backwards this year with there play? Start good and then play like they've never been on the floor before? Its like we just run around and hope someone can throw the ball in? Any kind of offense out there at all. Sloan ran a tight ship and players knew where they needed to be, Here not seeing it? Is it just me?

Well, for one thing, OKC was playing Contender Defense on the Jazz - stunning and impressive. When the Jazz got an open look they shat the bed. End of story, (besides the Jazz having a woeful white underbelly they show far too often these days). But this is a DC thread, don't jack it. DC has done absolutely squat as a starter, like really bad, worse than Marvin. How is it some guys are just better off the bench???

Well, DC has been less than impressive for certain, but I think he still brings added value with his disruptive D and hustle.

And another thing I would like point out, perhaps when you rotate 3 guys through the spot, one of them the best player on the team, and they all seem to suck when they are otherwise at least decent if not really good, you have to seriously ask yourself if it isn't the role and not the guys.

I mean this is the same position that the Jazz rotated players in throughout the 90's when they were contenders because the bench players always looked better for some reason. This is the same position that made AK cry and lowered his efficiency from All-Star levels to Role Player levels. And it's worse now that it ever was for AK, AK never payed with a ball stopper like Jefferson, AK played with a PG that could set up the offense and distribute the ball.

These guys now are going out and running a system that is ill suited to the players on the court. When you watch the offense run with that first unit it is no mystery why the 3 spot is effectively worthless. The only reason the 2 spot gets anything is because they trade turns with the PG running the down screen off the ball.

So ya DC is bad with the first unit, and so will any other poor sap they throw out there, at least DC makes his presence felt in other ways instead of just disappearing like Marvin did.

TheMagnus wrote:

So ya DC is bad with the first unit, and so will any other poor sap they throw out there, at least DC makes his presence felt in other ways instead of just disappearing like Marvin did.

Bingo.

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

So ya DC is bad with the first unit, and so will any other poor sap they throw out there, at least DC makes his presence felt in other ways instead of just disappearing like Marvin did.

Bingo.

DC was 0 for 3 1 stl 1 asst no blocks one T. 19 mins
Not thinking this was to much to brag about? -16 on top?

Marv 2 for 5 4 points 2 stl 2 asst. 23 mins

Richardale wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

So ya DC is bad with the first unit, and so will any other poor sap they throw out there, at least DC makes his presence felt in other ways instead of just disappearing like Marvin did.

Bingo.

DC was 0 for 3 1 stl 1 asst no blocks one T. 19 mins
Not thinking this was to much to brag about? -16 on top?

Marv 2 for 5 4 points 2 stl 2 asst. 23 mins

Here's two more lines for you...

Al Jefferson 4 for 13, 7 reb, 2 TO, and -24 in 24 minutes
Mo Williams 2 for 7, 3 ast, 4 TO, and -18 in 21 minutes

Minutes DC played with Jefferson and Mo Williams = 19 minutes.

Minutes Marv played with Jefferson and Mo Williams = 0 minutes.

Al Jefferson is -101 in his 8 games since the All-Star Break, that's an average of almost -13 per game, and is TRIPLE the minus of every player but Randy Foye (-66). He also has the worst defensive rating by a mile (114), and a TS% of .507, which is 5th worst on the team.

Mo Williams is -33 in his 5 games back, that's almost -7 per game, worse per game than any player but Al Jefferson. He's got an asst/TO ratio of basically 1, and his TS% is .44, third worst on the team.

Here's the kicker, guess who the two highest usage players are since the All-Star Break?

yep. Al (27.5%) and Mo (24.5%).

Yeap, Magnus has a point there... Mo and Al are killing it... being "it" the Jazz

Richardale wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

So ya DC is bad with the first unit, and so will any other poor sap they throw out there, at least DC makes his presence felt in other ways instead of just disappearing like Marvin did.

Bingo.

DC was 0 for 3 1 stl 1 asst no blocks one T. 19 mins
Not thinking this was to much to brag about? -16 on top?

Marv 2 for 5 4 points 2 stl 2 asst. 23 mins

Richard you used to love CJ Miles too because of his stats. If you always look at the stats, instead of looking at all the other ways guys help or hurt their teams, you'll never like DC. DC does all the little thigns that dont show up in the boxscore. He is great in that starting lineup.

I didn't mind the shoulder he threw into Durant either. It would have been nice if he would've swiped at the ball too, but I didn't mind it, and one more reason I like him on this team. Not to mention, KD did the EXACT same thing in Utah last time they played. Maybe that was just payback, and if thats the case I like it even more. This team needs an identity, and weak and mild is NOT what I want to see. I think we have the personnel finally, where guys are tough, and dont back down.

Mutangclan wrote:

Richardale wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

So ya DC is bad with the first unit, and so will any other poor sap they throw out there, at least DC makes his presence felt in other ways instead of just disappearing like Marvin did.

Bingo.

DC was 0 for 3 1 stl 1 asst no blocks one T. 19 mins
Not thinking this was to much to brag about? -16 on top?

Marv 2 for 5 4 points 2 stl 2 asst. 23 mins

Richard you used to love CJ Miles too because of his stats. If you always look at the stats, instead of looking at all the other ways guys help or hurt their teams, you'll never like DC. DC does all the little thigns that dont show up in the boxscore. He is great in that starting lineup.

I didn't mind the shoulder he threw into Durant either. It would have been nice if he would've swiped at the ball too, but I didn't mind it, and one more reason I like him on this team. Not to mention, KD did the EXACT same thing in Utah last time they played. Maybe that was just payback, and if thats the case I like it even more. This team needs an identity, and weak and mild is NOT what I want to see. I think we have the personnel finally, where guys are tough, and dont back down.

I love it KD needed to be laid the F out! DC is one of my Fav players. Just dont think he's our future starter here. High energy off the bench is where i want him playing. With Al on the floor none of the 3s look good. Just a fact and we know we need a change going into next year. This team needs to play the passing game and move the ball not the crap we've been watching.

Richardale wrote:

I love it KD needed to be laid the F out! DC is one of my Fav players. Just dont think he's our future starter here. High energy off the bench is where i want him playing. With Al on the floor none of the 3s look good. Just a fact and we know we need a change going into next year. This team needs to play the passing game and move the ball not the crap we've been watching.

Was Carroll’s foul payback?

"I wasn’t even thinking about that," Carroll said. "My whole thing was just trying to stop the ball."

Whether is playback or not isn't important. I too am happy to see someone play with a little grit.

[quote="zero24gravity"]

Richardale wrote:

I love it KD needed to be laid the F out! DC is one of my Fav players. Just dont think he's our future starter here. High energy off the bench is where i want him playing. With Al on the floor none of the 3s look good. Just a fact and we know we need a change going into next year. This team needs to play the passing game and move the ball not the crap we've been watching.

Was Carroll’s foul payback?

"I wasn’t even thinking about that," Carroll said. "My whole thing was just trying to stop the ball."

Whether is playback or not isn't important. I too am happy to see someone play with a little grit.

[/quote

He told KD it was wrong and was greeted with talk to the hand! So when the shoe was on the other foot his team mates were all about it being wrong. Now do you understand KD? He was out of line. And DC was happy to show him it was F ed up. Love that kind of team mate. Not to sure if Gordo will ever cut it. He needs the fire DC has not that pussy stuff we've been watching out of him?

[quote="Richardale"]

zero24gravity wrote:

Richardale wrote:

I love it KD needed to be laid the F out! DC is one of my Fav players. Just dont think he's our future starter here. High energy off the bench is where i want him playing. With Al on the floor none of the 3s look good. Just a fact and we know we need a change going into next year. This team needs to play the passing game and move the ball not the crap we've been watching.

Was Carroll’s foul payback?

"I wasn’t even thinking about that," Carroll said. "My whole thing was just trying to stop the ball."

Whether is playback or not isn't important. I too am happy to see someone play with a little grit.

[/quote

He told KD it was wrong and was greeted with talk to the hand! So when the shoe was on the other foot his team mates were all about it being wrong. Now do you understand KD? He was out of line. And DC was happy to show him it was F ed up. Love that kind of team mate. Not to sure if Gordo will ever cut it. He needs the fire DC has not that pussy stuff we've been watching out of him?

KD acknowledged that foul was fair-enough payback for the same foul he delivered the last time they met. I'd call the whole thing settled and settled professionally at that. GH doesn't need to get nasty with his actions to prove anything, his game speaks for itself. Some guys are just classy.

[quote="MTJazz"]

Richardale wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

Richardale wrote:

I love it KD needed to be laid the F out! DC is one of my Fav players. Just dont think he's our future starter here. High energy off the bench is where i want him playing. With Al on the floor none of the 3s look good. Just a fact and we know we need a change going into next year. This team needs to play the passing game and move the ball not the crap we've been watching.

Was Carroll’s foul payback?

"I wasn’t even thinking about that," Carroll said. "My whole thing was just trying to stop the ball."

Whether is playback or not isn't important. I too am happy to see someone play with a little grit.

[/quote

He told KD it was wrong and was greeted with talk to the hand! So when the shoe was on the other foot his team mates were all about it being wrong. Now do you understand KD? He was out of line. And DC was happy to show him it was F ed up. Love that kind of team mate. Not to sure if Gordo will ever cut it. He needs the fire DC has not that pussy stuff we've been watching out of him?

KD acknowledged that foul was fair-enough payback for the same foul he delivered the last time they met. I'd call the whole thing settled and settled professionally at that. GH doesn't need to get nasty with his actions to prove anything, his game speaks for itself. Some guys are just classy.

Not to sure thats the only fire i was talking about.6 out of 14 is not letting your game talk? He played with it right after he came back from being hurt. Passion to be on the floor. He's not had that same killer fire? DC played with it off the bench. James plays with it all the time. Its what makes he the best player in the league. KD plays with it about 75% of the time. Its what's gonna make Flash allstar or Gordo 6th man. I see it in koby 80% he wants to win and will lay it all out! Hate KB but he has the fire thats made him a allstar all these years.

[quote="Richardale"]

MTJazz wrote:

Richardale wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

Richardale wrote:

I love it KD needed to be laid the F out! DC is one of my Fav players. Just dont think he's our future starter here. High energy off the bench is where i want him playing. With Al on the floor none of the 3s look good. Just a fact and we know we need a change going into next year. This team needs to play the passing game and move the ball not the crap we've been watching.

Was Carroll’s foul payback?

"I wasn’t even thinking about that," Carroll said. "My whole thing was just trying to stop the ball."

Whether is playback or not isn't important. I too am happy to see someone play with a little grit.

[/quote

He told KD it was wrong and was greeted with talk to the hand! So when the shoe was on the other foot his team mates were all about it being wrong. Now do you understand KD? He was out of line. And DC was happy to show him it was F ed up. Love that kind of team mate. Not to sure if Gordo will ever cut it. He needs the fire DC has not that pussy stuff we've been watching out of him?

KD acknowledged that foul was fair-enough payback for the same foul he delivered the last time they met. I'd call the whole thing settled and settled professionally at that. GH doesn't need to get nasty with his actions to prove anything, his game speaks for itself. Some guys are just classy.

Not to sure thats the only fire i was talking about.6 out of 14 is not letting your game talk? He played with it right after he came back from being hurt. Passion to be on the floor. He's not had that same killer fire? DC played with it of the bench. James plays with it all the time. Its what makes he the best player in the league. KD plays with it about 75% of the time. Its what's gonna make Flash allstar or Gordo 6th man. I see it in koby 80% he wants to win and will lay it all out! Hate KB but he has the fire thats made him a allstar all these years.

Not sure the head coach we have now can get it out of any of his guys? Not liking what i've seen when it comes to getting it out of any one of our guys or ever will why he coaches? Phil J got the fire out of a lot of his players and thats why he is one of the best ever.

I'm not against GH starting, but like most of you, I don't get why Foye is keeping the job, while DC gets a DNP.

I just read this comment made by TyCo...

Gordon Hayward started for the first time since Nov. 16; coach Tyrone Corbin inserted him into the first group in place of DeMarre Carroll. Corbin said he made the move "because of the results we’ve been getting of late."

Sorry Ty, but if you were worried about the "results" the team has been getting lately, you wouldn't be keeping Foye in & leaving DC out. It just doesn't make sense. I don't hate Foye, he's a good role player, but what in the world is he doing to keep getting the starts? Just name me one thing... PLEASE.

zero24gravity wrote:

I'm not against GH starting, but like most of you, I don't get why Foye is keeping the job, while DC gets a DNP.

I just read this comment made by TyCo...

Gordon Hayward started for the first time since Nov. 16; coach Tyrone Corbin inserted him into the first group in place of DeMarre Carroll. Corbin said he made the move "because of the results we’ve been getting of late."

Sorry Ty, but if you were worried about the "results" the team has been getting lately, you wouldn't be keeping Foye in & leaving DC out. It just doesn't make sense. I don't hate Foye, he's a good role player, but what in the world is he doing to keep getting the starts? Just name me one thing... PLEASE.

Did you see this from David Locke....

David Locke wrote:

INSIDER – Are Foye’s struggles related to who plays the point?

Randy Foye has been struggling to make shots since the All-Star break. Numerous factors have gone into Foye shooting woes. Prior to the Minnesota game he took a shot to the leg and willed his way through that game and his legs have struggled to return to him.

In addition the Jazz have been swinging between 4 different point guards and that has made it difficult for Foye. Each of these point guards play the game very differently and for a shooter that is a considerable adjustment to how and where they are going to get the shots.

....

Here are the numbers for Randy Foye depending who his point guard has been:

Foye with Mo Williams – 37% and 36% from 3 – 1.4 FTA per 36 – Mo off – 40% and 42% 3.0 FTA per 36

Foye with Jamaal Tinsley – 43% and 46% from 3- 2.7 FTA per 36 – JT off – 36% and 36% 2.4 per 36

Foye with Earl Watson – 35% and 36% from 3 3.2 FTA per 36 – EW off – 40% and 41% 2.4 per 36

Foye with Alec Burks – 39% and 42% from 3 4.1 FTA per 36 – off the floor – 39% and 40% 2.3 per 36

http://weareutahjazz.com/lockedonjazz/

How many really good reasons do you think Corbin needs before he makes a change? Perhaps the quality of the "reasons" is irrelevant, maybe he just needs the Jazz to lose a whole bunch more before he's willing to ask the right questions and get the right answers.

Foye + Starting = Wrong
Anybody + Earl Watson = Wrong
Foye + Tinsley = Better

Foye + Burks = THE RIGHT THING TO DO!