UnderKanter

Being a little factitious ..kanter, other than the incredibly frustrating nonfinishing aspect has great upside. Him being relatively fearless at his age can't be taught. He'll improve at the rim (or I'll go nukin futs) . If he develops a consistent jumper, combined with physical boarding .... definitely a keeper.
btw, we all know the lineup I proposed and we've seen kicks booty. Love to see it all the time.

aliveandkickin wrote:

Being a little factitious ..kanter, other than the incredibly frustrating nonfinishing aspect has great upside. Him being relatively fearless at his age can't be taught. He'll improve at the rim (or I'll go nukin futs) . If he develops a consistent jumper, combined with physical boarding .... definitely a keeper.
btw, we all know the lineup I proposed and we've seen kicks booty. Love to see it all the time.

Because of Enes' lack of "ups", I see him HAVING to develop his jumper. That along with something like a baby-hook, which is hard to block, would make him a pretty good player.

Think poor man's Kevin Love, without the three point range. Rebounding beast, not a shot blocker, great face-up game, but limited post game.

To me, that is the best case scenario, and also what I'm expecting from the former #3 overall pick.

zero24gravity wrote:

Because of Enes' lack of "ups", I see him HAVING to develop his jumper. That along with something like a baby-hook, which is hard to block, would make him a pretty good player.

Think poor man's Kevin Love, without the three point range. Rebounding beast, not a shot blocker, great face-up game, but limited post game.

To me, that is the best case scenario, and also what I'm expecting from the former #3 overall pick.

Hey lil Enes already has a great jumper, for only being 19 and zero experience. Karl ended up being one of the best, and it was all from experience and practice. Enes already comes in with a better that solid foundation.
And the guy is still 6'11, I mean it's not like he's Barkley down there; dude is huge. Just like everything else with Enes, he simply needs the training and experience. I think he's going to have a very solid post game actually. In summer league he showed much more than the up and under he did last year. He went baseline a ton successfully, and also showed a baby hook going into the lane.
I'm actually, and definitely on the side of Kanter the starter, verses Kanter the backup for a career. All he needs is more training/practice/camps.

Mutangclan wrote:

http://www.slcdunk.com/2012/7/20/3173684/busting-the-myth-that-jazz-bigman-enes-kanter-is-a-bust#storyjump
.

The man is not physicist but biology guy, so his grasp on statistics is much weaker than on muscle structire etc..

Here is a big catch in ajustment of time: there strongest correlation between (espesially strong for rookie) between pt and level of competion. If kid has over 25 min. he definentely compete
against starter of other teams, if he has under 15 - that's mostly benchers.

There are other weaker but significant correlations - especially significant for BIGs correlations - if one has less pt, he is less afraid of fouling, doesn't need to save energy and mostly keeping focus on defense for not to be benched. All that made such analysis almost irrelevant. You can tell that Kanter is one of the best among below average - and that basically all story. So far.

aliveandkickin wrote:

Good debate from some smart people. Love seeing Magnus and Tang go at it. I'd start all three; Sap, Favors, and Big Al. It's their best defensive unit and all three should be their best offensive unit as well when they're in.......including Mo and Hayward.

These guys should play 36 min a game together... The rest of the substitutions can come however Corbin desires for all I care.
Play these five together and the Jazz will rack up the wins to a first round home court advantage.

As far as Kanter.... He can rebound. Other than that, well, he can rebound and get blocked, BUT, he can freakin rebound. Lets see, what else can he do? He can grab the ball after an opponent misses a shot but that's about it. Did I mention he can rebound? At least he has that going for him...

Why won't any of the Kanter-haters (or Can'ters, as they are called probably nowhere) give him credit for his rebounding?? Coz I hate to sound like some kind of know-it-all but he can really rebound!

vryadli wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

http://www.slcdunk.com/2012/7/20/3173684/busting-the-myth-that-jazz-bigman-enes-kanter-is-a-bust#storyjump
.

The man is not physicist but biology guy, so his grasp on statistics is much weaker than on muscle structire etc..

Here is a big catch in ajustment of time: there strongest correlation between (espesially strong for rookie) between pt and level of competion. If kid has over 25 min. he definentely compete
against starter of other teams, if he has under 15 - that's mostly benchers.

There are other weaker but significant correlations - especially significant for BIGs correlations - if one has less pt, he is less afraid of fouling, doesn't need to save energy and mostly keeping focus on defense for not to be benched. All that made such analysis almost irrelevant. You can tell that Kanter is one of the best among below average - and that basically all story. So far.

I think I know what you mean. God help me.

The thing is, I said last year that Kanter might be the LEAST-COACHED player the NBA has seen in some time...even the US kids who skipped college largely played almost-year-round AAU ball or some kind of select-team touring ball. And maybe that+high school doesn't amount to a lot of coaching, per se, but it's an awful lot of organized playing.

Whereas Kanter had what? A couple of Euro U-18 seasons and..nothin'? No college, no training camp, no summer league practices...and then the NBA. So I'm inclined to cut him some slack.

I remember one play last year where somebody, I think it might have been Splitter, was setting up for a flop on a Kanter lunge to the basket and Kanter caught him mid-flop and about crushed his sternum. Must've felt awful real for a flop. Heh. I think he'll have a top-5 impact in the impact category, sooner than later.

Trollificus wrote:

aliveandkickin wrote:

Good debate from some smart people. Love seeing Magnus and Tang go at it. I'd start all three; Sap, Favors, and Big Al. It's their best defensive unit and all three should be their best offensive unit as well when they're in.......including Mo and Hayward.

These guys should play 36 min a game together... The rest of the substitutions can come however Corbin desires for all I care.
Play these five together and the Jazz will rack up the wins to a first round home court advantage.

As far as Kanter.... He can rebound. Other than that, well, he can rebound and get blocked, BUT, he can freakin rebound. Lets see, what else can he do? He can grab the ball after an opponent misses a shot but that's about it. Did I mention he can rebound? At least he has that going for him...

Why won't any of the Kanter-haters (or Can'ters, as they are called probably nowhere) give him credit for his rebounding?? Coz I hate to sound like some kind of know-it-all but he can really rebound!

I can't see hating on Kanter. Dude is going to own the RB title within 3 years and keep it for awhile. I suspect that his paint D is also going to get way better. He is going to be an automatic 10-10 guy, probably more like 10-15 and quite possibly, not unlike Kevin Love, going to figure out a pretty damn sweet offensive game for an nonathletic white guy (racist slur intended). Didn't see it much last season, but the guy definitely has a jump shot and touch, who cares how high off the floor he elevates?

I agree, as long as he doesn't get blocked a lot under the basket, he'll do aight.

I'm willing to bet, allowances for now cause of his youth, he gets blocked more than anyone in the league on shots taken. No where to go but up! (no pun intended)

ptaz66 wrote:

rorybreaker wrote:

Favor, Kanter, Millsap, Big Al, the question is who to keep long term.
I would love to have them all but that would be a problem next year with playing time and salary.
My opinion is that the best three man rotation would be Favors, Kanter and a non $15 million a year Big Al.
So what to do with Millsap? I would try to trade him between now and the trade deadline, if not you pay him about $10-11 mil a year and maybe dump Big Al (bad move) or he walks.
I really like the guy but minutes and money don't work out as well for him.
The Jazz still need an elite PG, and an elite SF. Mo and Marvin aren't elite, pretty good, but not good enough to get the Jazz to the next level.

If you're arguing for a future of Favors, Kanter and a non $15 million a year Big Al, then your argument for trading Milsap seem somewhat flawed to me, because if you trade or let Big Al go and keep Milsap at $10-11 million, this is exactly what you have.

Many of us have presented pretty solid arguments regarding a Favors/Jefferson line-up versus a Favors/Milsap line-up wherein we think the Favors/Milsap line-up is certainly as good or IMO better.

Kanter is a project who I hope and think will pan out, but I certainly would be unwilling to bet the team on it. Hence, I'd only look to trade a big if I could get a proven elite PG, until Kanter proves himself to be an excellent or better center.

Here's my proven elite PG list CP, Rose, Rondo, DW, or Westbrook. Now all the Jazz Brass have to do is figure out how to get one of these guys without completely dismantling the team. I realize its a short list, but I'm not convinced Mo won't be about as good as the next tier of the PG's out there this year.

I think Mo could prove to be a top 6 or 7-15 PG and after the top five or six, the difference really becomes personal preferance in what strengths and weaknesses you choose to live with, because PG's ranking 6 or 7-15 all have a couple of each, as exemplified in our discussions on this board, where the opinions have been vast and varied in considering how to upgrade the PG position this off-season.

As far as the elite SF, I'm not sure this is a need, as opposed to a want.
I think Marvin may prove to be better than anticipated. Likewise, I think it's entirely possible Burks and Hayward could very well develop to a point, where as a tandem they are in the top 10 in the league. I realize the latter may take a couple of years, but Kanter's development is certainly going to take this long as well.

I think you misunderstood me, I want Big Al (but not for $15 million, I'd pay him no more than $10 million) and then I would use Millsap as trade bait, I wouldn't resign him for what he could get on the open market.
I really think the Jazz need a prime time SF and a prime time PG to get to the next level.
Favors should be a great PF, Burks-Hayward- and (fill in the blank) elite SF would be a great three man rotation to use up 48 minutes between the two positions. Carroll would be a good cheap fourth man in a three man rotation.
If you had Kanter, Big Al splitting C duties you'd be just fine. I'm convinced Big Al and Kantor can be on the court together too.
Millsap would be a great luxury but I would rather use his money to get a PG or SF.
And, uh, thats just like uh, my opinion man.

rorybreaker wrote:

I think you misunderstood me, I want Big Al (but not for $15 million, I'd pay him no more than $10 million) and then I would use Millsap as trade bait, I wouldn't resign him for what he could get on the open market.
I really think the Jazz need a prime time SF and a prime time PG to get to the next level.
Favors should be a great PF, Burks-Hayward- and (fill in the blank) elite SF would be a great three man rotation to use up 48 minutes between the two positions. Carroll would be a good cheap fourth man in a three man rotation.
If you had Kanter, Big Al splitting C duties you'd be just fine. I'm convinced Big Al and Kantor can be on the court together too.
Millsap would be a great luxury but I would rather use his money to get a PG or SF.
And, uh, thats just like uh, my opinion man.

Rory, your opinion is as good as anyone's. Couple thoughts on your last post though. Big AL at $10 MM??? No way in hell. Look what AK just pulled down after playing in Europe all year and NEVER even approaching Al's RB and PPG, and on BS Big AL gives little up to AK. And beyond AK, you been watching what dudes not nearly as productive as Big Al have been signing for? Like Marvin Williams for $8MM on 2 years with player option? Like Batum at $45MM with bonuses to $50MM on 4 years? Garnet $36MM for 3 years, (lol, he should be reaaaal productive in year 3, eh)? Hibbert 4 years and $58 fricking million for 12.2 ppg and 8.8 rebounds? Ersan Ilyasova, $40MM over 5 years. Omer Asic, 3 years $25MM. In my opinion these guys can't carry Big Al's lunchbox. He is definitely going to sign for way more than $10MM a year in 2013.

Also, any plan to move Sap would require the Jazz acquiring a quality PF backup that would not come cheap, so simply swapping his salary for an "elite" SF would leave a significant need that would hit the payroll hard to fill. What the Jazz have too many of right now is PG's or guys who can play PG, (I count 4) and an only average manning of the SG slot, where we have an unproven but promising Burks, a second string guy in Foye and a completely unproven second round draft pick in Murphy. If we could upgrade SG plus get a decent backup for Sap I would hugely and reluctantly try and get used to getting rid of Sap. JMO.

MTJazz wrote:

rorybreaker wrote:

I think you misunderstood me, I want Big Al (but not for $15 million, I'd pay him no more than $10 million) and then I would use Millsap as trade bait, I wouldn't resign him for what he could get on the open market.
I really think the Jazz need a prime time SF and a prime time PG to get to the next level.
Favors should be a great PF, Burks-Hayward- and (fill in the blank) elite SF would be a great three man rotation to use up 48 minutes between the two positions. Carroll would be a good cheap fourth man in a three man rotation.
If you had Kanter, Big Al splitting C duties you'd be just fine. I'm convinced Big Al and Kantor can be on the court together too.
Millsap would be a great luxury but I would rather use his money to get a PG or SF.
And, uh, thats just like uh, my opinion man.

Rory, your opinion is as good as anyone's. Couple thoughts on your last post though. Big AL at $10 MM??? No way in hell. Look what AK just pulled down after playing in Europe all year and NEVER even approaching Al's RB and PPG, and on BS Big AL gives little up to AK. And beyond AK, you been watching what dudes not nearly as productive as Big Al have been signing for? Like Marvin Williams for $8MM on 2 years with player option? Like Batum at $45MM with bonuses to $50MM on 4 years? Garnet $36MM for 3 years, (lol, he should be reaaaal productive in year 3, eh)? Hibbert 4 years and $58 fricking million for 12.2 ppg and 8.8 rebounds? Ersan Ilyasova, $40MM over 5 years. Omer Asic, 3 years $25MM. In my opinion these guys can't carry Big Al's lunchbox. He is definitely going to sign for way more than $10MM a year in 2013.

Also, any plan to move Sap would require the Jazz acquiring a quality PF backup that would not come cheap, so simply swapping his salary for an "elite" SF would leave a significant need that would hit the payroll hard to fill. What the Jazz have too many of right now is PG's or guys who can play PG, (I count 4) and an only average manning of the SG slot, where we have an unproven but promising Burks, a second string guy in Foye and a completely unproven second round draft pick in Murphy. If we could upgrade SG plus get a decent backup for Sap I would hugely and reluctantly try and get used to getting rid of Sap. JMO.

I wouldn't pay more than $10 mil for Big Al and if that means he goes, then he goes. If someone can give him 5 years at $13 mil then good for him, I'd keep my $65 million. As for Millsap, he will probably get $10 mil a year but I wouldn't pay that for him either so that is why I would try to trade him for what I could get before the trade deadline.
The Jazz needs are simple.
elite PG (not Mo')
elite SF (not Marvin)
good PF/C (I think Big Al but no more than $10 mil)
project or old vet back-up C, no more than $4 mil per year
The Jazz can mix and match and find all the Foyes and Marvins they want, they won't get to the next level til they do what I proposed.
I trust KOC and hope he gets this to go along with the young guys and the role players.

rorybreaker wrote:

I wouldn't pay more than $10 mil for Big Al and if that means he goes, then he goes. If someone can give him 5 years at $13 mil then good for him, I'd keep my $65 million. As for Millsap, he will probably get $10 mil a year but I wouldn't pay that for him either so that is why I would try to trade him for what I could get before the trade deadline.
The Jazz needs are simple.
elite PG (not Mo')
elite SF (not Marvin)
good PF/C (I think Big Al but no more than $10 mil)
project or old vet back-up C, no more than $4 mil per year
The Jazz can mix and match and find all the Foyes and Marvins they want, they won't get to the next level til they do what I proposed.
I trust KOC and hope he gets this to go along with the young guys and the role players.

Well, I mean, I hear what you're saying, and Al has his faults. But if you look at what other guys are making, who are not as good as Al, well, then if we were able to sign him for 11-13m that would be right on target, and maybe even a steal. Then again, if you're saying we just dont need him because of Fav and Kanter, then thats another thing. And 10m a season for Paul isn't good??? I mean, thats also good for what he brings, and all you do is compare to similar players. Or just dont need either anymore?

Second, I mean, looking at the past NBA Champions and recently you have a team with two elite players, the Heat that won it. Pretty tough to do. Outside of that, their best player was a good Bosh and then nothing really. Just journeymen and decent vets. Then the Mavericks who had, what, Dirk as elite?? Then some other good players, but certainly not elite. ***** were able to pull in 3 elite players, then again they paid 25m more a season for salary. Before that the Celtics, same type situation, then Spurs who had one elite, one great....I mean, it goes on and on. To try and get more than one elite player, is pretty tough. I think you get 5-7 pretty good players, and you're on your way. Which is what I think KOC is doing.

Mutangclan wrote:

rorybreaker wrote:

I wouldn't pay more than $10 mil for Big Al and if that means he goes, then he goes. If someone can give him 5 years at $13 mil then good for him, I'd keep my $65 million. As for Millsap, he will probably get $10 mil a year but I wouldn't pay that for him either so that is why I would try to trade him for what I could get before the trade deadline.
The Jazz needs are simple.
elite PG (not Mo')
elite SF (not Marvin)
good PF/C (I think Big Al but no more than $10 mil)
project or old vet back-up C, no more than $4 mil per year
The Jazz can mix and match and find all the Foyes and Marvins they want, they won't get to the next level til they do what I proposed.
I trust KOC and hope he gets this to go along with the young guys and the role players.

Well, I mean, I hear what you're saying, and Al has his faults. But if you look at what other guys are making, who are not as good as Al, well, then if we were able to sign him for 11-13m that would be right on target, and maybe even a steal. Then again, if you're saying we just dont need him because of Fav and Kanter, then thats another thing. And 10m a season for Paul isn't good??? I mean, thats also good for what he brings, and all you do is compare to similar players. Or just dont need either anymore?

Second, I mean, looking at the past NBA Champions and recently you have a team with two elite players, the Heat that won it. Pretty tough to do. Outside of that, their best player was a good Bosh and then nothing really. Just journeymen and decent vets. Then the Mavericks who had, what, Dirk as elite?? Then some other good players, but certainly not elite. ***** were able to pull in 3 elite players, then again they paid 25m more a season for salary. Before that the Celtics, same type situation, then Spurs who had one elite, one great....I mean, it goes on and on. To try and get more than one elite player, is pretty tough. I think you get 5-7 pretty good players, and you're on your way. Which is what I think KOC is doing.

If you give Big Al $13 and Paul $10 thats $23 million for them and there is no elite SF or elite PG.
I like Paul and I like Al but in my opinion they won't get you to the next level.
If Mo turned out to be phenominal the Jazz paid him $8 mil and Marvin played out his option thats another $7.5 you have almost $39 mil for those four players and I'm almost positive they won't get you to the next level...and you still don't have an elite SF or PG. When the young guys come up, how can they be paid?
I would kill to have Millsap back but he or Big Al would be too much, one should have to go and I think Millsap would get the most in a trade.

Talking about Al has his faults, at 20/10/2 thats worth the money. His postgame is second to none, and he's a great teammate. Defensively its not that I'm disagreeing with anyone, but Dallas won a title with pretty Drrrrky and Tyson Chandler. Now Dirk has never once, EVER been talked about in the same sentence as defense. I'd say Dirk is a worse defender over-all then Al. So now you look at Tyson Chandler; is Chandler > Fav? Probably right now yes, but is it logical to think that Fav will be a better player than Chandler? Also yes. Fav offensively is already better than Tyson. Tyson was also never a huge shotblocker, just a pretty good help defender. I think we can expect that from Favors at a minimum. So where does that leave us??? Maybe Al and his faults are not that big a deal, because Favors is going to be better than Chandler. Ya feel me? Thats not even discussing Paul or Underkanter either. Dallas won a title with a lesser duo.....

Mutangclan wrote:

Talking about Al has his faults, at 20/10/2 thats worth the money. His postgame is second to none, and he's a great teammate. Defensively its not that I'm disagreeing with anyone, but Dallas won a title with pretty Drrrrky and Tyson Chandler. Now Dirk has never once, EVER been talked about in the same sentence as defense. I'd say Dirk is a worse defender over-all then Al. So now you look at Tyson Chandler; is Chandler > Fav? Probably right now yes, but is it logical to think that Fav will be a better player than Chandler? Also yes. Fav offensively is already better than Tyson. Tyson was also never a huge shotblocker, just a pretty good help defender. I think we can expect that from Favors at a minimum. So where does that leave us??? Maybe Al and his faults are not that big a deal, because Favors is going to be better than Chandler. Ya feel me? Thats not even discussing Paul or Underkanter either. Dallas won a title with a lesser duo.....

Dirk is a lot more versatile on offense than Al, but I get what you're saying. We are kinda in the same position Dallas was in when they won the title. Great frontcourt, good veteran pg, athletic wing players and a bench with 2-3 legit starters on it. The main difference is our team is made up of mostly young draft picks where the Mavs opted for veteran FAs mostly.

rorybreaker wrote:

ptaz66 wrote:

rorybreaker wrote:

Favor, Kanter, Millsap, Big Al, the question is who to keep long term.
I would love to have them all but that would be a problem next year with playing time and salary.
My opinion is that the best three man rotation would be Favors, Kanter and a non $15 million a year Big Al.
So what to do with Millsap? I would try to trade him between now and the trade deadline, if not you pay him about $10-11 mil a year and maybe dump Big Al (bad move) or he walks.
I really like the guy but minutes and money don't work out as well for him.
The Jazz still need an elite PG, and an elite SF. Mo and Marvin aren't elite, pretty good, but not good enough to get the Jazz to the next level.

If you're arguing for a future of Favors, Kanter and a non $15 million a year Big Al, then your argument for trading Milsap seem somewhat flawed to me, because if you trade or let Big Al go and keep Milsap at $10-11 million, this is exactly what you have.

Many of us have presented pretty solid arguments regarding a Favors/Jefferson line-up versus a Favors/Milsap line-up wherein we think the Favors/Milsap line-up is certainly as good or IMO better.

Kanter is a project who I hope and think will pan out, but I certainly would be unwilling to bet the team on it. Hence, I'd only look to trade a big if I could get a proven elite PG, until Kanter proves himself to be an excellent or better center.

Here's my proven elite PG list CP, Rose, Rondo, DW, or Westbrook. Now all the Jazz Brass have to do is figure out how to get one of these guys without completely dismantling the team. I realize its a short list, but I'm not convinced Mo won't be about as good as the next tier of the PG's out there this year.

I think Mo could prove to be a top 6 or 7-15 PG and after the top five or six, the difference really becomes personal preferance in what strengths and weaknesses you choose to live with, because PG's ranking 6 or 7-15 all have a couple of each, as exemplified in our discussions on this board, where the opinions have been vast and varied in considering how to upgrade the PG position this off-season.

As far as the elite SF, I'm not sure this is a need, as opposed to a want.
I think Marvin may prove to be better than anticipated. Likewise, I think it's entirely possible Burks and Hayward could very well develop to a point, where as a tandem they are in the top 10 in the league. I realize the latter may take a couple of years, but Kanter's development is certainly going to take this long as well.

I think you misunderstood me, I want Big Al (but not for $15 million, I'd pay him no more than $10 million) and then I would use Millsap as trade bait, I wouldn't resign him for what he could get on the open market.
I really think the Jazz need a prime time SF and a prime time PG to get to the next level.
Favors should be a great PF, Burks-Hayward- and (fill in the blank) elite SF would be a great three man rotation to use up 48 minutes between the two positions. Carroll would be a good cheap fourth man in a three man rotation.
If you had Kanter, Big Al splitting C duties you'd be just fine. I'm convinced Big Al and Kantor can be on the court together too.
Millsap would be a great luxury but I would rather use his money to get a PG or SF.
And, uh, thats just like uh, my opinion man.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Rarely do you see players take pay-cuts. Even more rarely players in their prime. This makes it almost impossible to re-sign Al at for the money you're talking about.

Besides, IMO Milsap is the better of the two, when considering him and Big Al. I think Milsap and Favors, or Milsap and Kanter is better than Al with either of these two.

Either way, I'm still hesitant to trade a quality big for a SF or PG given what we already have. I just don't think there are really any teams looking to part with a top 5 or 6 SF or PG which is where the elite category ends in my mind and the excellent category starts for the 10 or so slots. I'm not sure Mo isn't capable of landing in the excellent category, likewise, for Hayward and Burks. Hence, IMO this trading Milsap simply doesn't net us enough or improve us enough.

This is hysterical, I think this is the Turkish coach. The same coach that I watched him play all the older guys who would move the ball around the 3pt line, and then launch ill advised, contested, fade away 3ptrs ALL GAME LONG. It was a joke to watch. When he put Kanter in there, he got all the rebounds and dominated down low. But then they wouldn't pass him the ball, or the coach would take him back out and the team would get blown out. Amazing to read this when Kanter was their best player EASILY, but they had no clue how to play or use him.

On Enes Kanter not playing on the national team in 2012, Tanjevic said that “He is a great talent and we miss him a lot. He decided not to join us but honestly, he needs us more than we need him. He has not played or trained with us in the past three years. I [also] had to replace [Kerem] Gonlum, who was on holiday with his family. Without Kanter, it will be a little more difficult but I think we’ll be able to get into EuroBasket 2013.” Ball In Europe
UTAH JAZZ, ENES KANTER
But Tanjevic also sees a problem with dependence on NBA stars at all – namely, the coaches. Was he surprised when Kanter declined to play with Team Turkey? “I’m not surprised at all … America is the perfect place to lose your head. Firstly, because the coaches [there] do not understand. In the NBA, there are just three or four coaches who have been there for 100 years, making billions and winning trophies. Others are weak. Including [Utah Jazz head coach] Tyrone Corbin…" Ball In Europe
UTAH JAZZ, COACHING, ENES KANTER, TYRONE CORBIN | SHARE
“I should have told him that I was going him to do a great service by teaching one of its basketball players and he could have earned money on it. But I don’t want to talk to guys who do not know what they are doing. Kanter has forgotten how to play basketball. He will never be a center but he always starts with his back to the basket. As a power forward, this would be devastating. He’s 2.10 meters tall and [could be] the best shooter on the Turkish team, backcourt included. But in the NBA, he never takes a shot.”

Mutangclan wrote:

This is hysterical, I think this is the Turkish coach. The same coach that I watched him play all the older guys who would move the ball around the 3pt line, and then launch ill advised, contested, fade away 3ptrs ALL GAME LONG. It was a joke to watch. When he put Kanter in there, he got all the rebounds and dominated down low. But then they wouldn't pass him the ball, or the coach would take him back out and the team would get blown out. Amazing to read this when Kanter was their best player EASILY, but they had no clue how to play or use him.

On Enes Kanter not playing on the national team in 2012, Tanjevic said that “He is a great talent and we miss him a lot. He decided not to join us but honestly, he needs us more than we need him. He has not played or trained with us in the past three years. I [also] had to replace [Kerem] Gonlum, who was on holiday with his family. Without Kanter, it will be a little more difficult but I think we’ll be able to get into EuroBasket 2013.” Ball In Europe
UTAH JAZZ, ENES KANTER
But Tanjevic also sees a problem with dependence on NBA stars at all – namely, the coaches. Was he surprised when Kanter declined to play with Team Turkey? “I’m not surprised at all … America is the perfect place to lose your head. Firstly, because the coaches [there] do not understand. In the NBA, there are just three or four coaches who have been there for 100 years, making billions and winning trophies. Others are weak. Including [Utah Jazz head coach] Tyrone Corbin…" Ball In Europe
UTAH JAZZ, COACHING, ENES KANTER, TYRONE CORBIN | SHARE
“I should have told him that I was going him to do a great service by teaching one of its basketball players and he could have earned money on it. But I don’t want to talk to guys who do not know what they are doing. Kanter has forgotten how to play basketball. He will never be a center but he always starts with his back to the basket. As a power forward, this would be devastating. He’s 2.10 meters tall and [could be] the best shooter on the Turkish team, backcourt included. But in the NBA, he never takes a shot.”

Euro Ball put's a lot more emphases on the finesse side to basketball like facing the basket and hitting outside shots but there is no reason in the world that Kanter can't work on that part of his game in the NBA. He has shown that he does have touch to hit outside shot's so the harder he work's on it then better he will get no matter where he is playing his ball. Sounds like that coach is going to lose out on the thing's that Kanter did for that team and he really know's it but trying to say otherwise.

Man, I'd love to see that happen, coz the first few WIDE-open 15-footers he hits are going to drop some jaws. I expect he's been written off as a bull, a rebounder with zero offensive skillz. When (if?) he shows that's not the case it's going to be hilarious.

Glad to hear his otherwise none-too-clueful coach say that about his shooting. That's how it looks when he takes a shot-coordinated and smooth, like a real shooter. Just sometimes the results don't reflect the form. This reminds me too much of my golf game and I don't want to talk about it anymore.

Mutangclan wrote:

This is hysterical, I think this is the Turkish coach. The same coach that I watched him play all the older guys who would move the ball around the 3pt line, and then launch ill advised, contested, fade away 3ptrs ALL GAME LONG. It was a joke to watch. When he put Kanter in there, he got all the rebounds and dominated down low. But then they wouldn't pass him the ball, or the coach would take him back out and the team would get blown out. Amazing to read this when Kanter was their best player EASILY, but they had no clue how to play or use him.

It is not the same coach. O.Ene was fired after Eurobasket 2011. B.Tanjevic is former Turkey coach and one of the most successful and respected coaches in Europe who won silver with Turkey team in World championship 2010 losing only in finals vs USA. If I am not mistaken he was coaching Fenerbache club when Kanter played first few games there as a pro at age of 17.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

This is hysterical, I think this is the Turkish coach. The same coach that I watched him play all the older guys who would move the ball around the 3pt line, and then launch ill advised, contested, fade away 3ptrs ALL GAME LONG. It was a joke to watch. When he put Kanter in there, he got all the rebounds and dominated down low. But then they wouldn't pass him the ball, or the coach would take him back out and the team would get blown out. Amazing to read this when Kanter was their best player EASILY, but they had no clue how to play or use him.

It is not the same coach. O.Ene was fired after Eurobasket 2011. B.Tanjevic is former Turkey coach and one of the most successful and respected coaches in Europe who won silver with Turkey team in World championship 2010 losing only in finals vs USA. If I am not mistaken he was coaching Fenerbache club when Kanter played first few games there as a pro at age of 17.

Imagine that.....that was the most pitiful display of team basketball I've ever seen. Good.

Doesn't change the fact that this "respected" coach is completely talking out of his ass. He has seen nothing of Ty Corbin but has decided he's weak. Same with Kanter.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

This is hysterical, I think this is the Turkish coach. The same coach that I watched him play all the older guys who would move the ball around the 3pt line, and then launch ill advised, contested, fade away 3ptrs ALL GAME LONG. It was a joke to watch. When he put Kanter in there, he got all the rebounds and dominated down low. But then they wouldn't pass him the ball, or the coach would take him back out and the team would get blown out. Amazing to read this when Kanter was their best player EASILY, but they had no clue how to play or use him.

It is not the same coach. O.Ene was fired after Eurobasket 2011. B.Tanjevic is former Turkey coach and one of the most successful and respected coaches in Europe who won silver with Turkey team in World championship 2010 losing only in finals vs USA. If I am not mistaken he was coaching Fenerbache club when Kanter played first few games there as a pro at age of 17.

Good for Turkey! If they fired the coach that was coaching while Kanter was playing for the Turkish team, good for them! Watching those games (thanks for the links BTW), I kept thinking, "Why aren't they exploiting Kanter's dominance on the offensive end?" It seemed like Turkey wanted to use Kanter as a decoy as an inside threat-- and they would pass the ball around the perimeter and take well-guarded 3pt shots which clanked. I don't know the political history of Turkey's basketball program, but it really looked like they were trying to promote Turkish players that would stay with the Turkish team as opposed to admitting their best player plays in the US for the NBA. The quotes by the replacement coach are simply ridiculous, making me think they were "Turkishly Approved" and designed to promote Turkish basketball more than having any value reflecting Kanter's ability.

Having said that, we still have to admit that we're talking about how well (or poorly) Kanter played against non-NBA talent. In last year's short NBA season, I don't remember him ever really dominating anyone (which is understandable). IMO, Kanter already has better all-around offensive skills than Bynum. Kanter has a better mid-range shot than Bynum (or D. Howard). And, I think Bynum really is one of the best Centers in the NBA. Kanter needs to get Mark Eaton-like in his defense (or, Bynum-like) to really put the Jazz into serious contention. Offensively, I don't see Kanter being as effective as Dwight Howard at the rim But, these days, we need him to try-- at least get the opponents' bigs in foul trouble. IMO, Kanter is currently our only legitimate BIG. Big Al, defensively, isn't that big-- and offensively we use him more like a PF than a Center.

I'm not saying we should rely on Kanter as the answer to all our problems. But, barring more trades, we need him to be the answer to some of our problems.

Saint Louis wrote:

Good for Turkey! If they fired the coach that was coaching while Kanter was playing for the Turkish team, good for them! Watching those games (thanks for the links BTW), I kept thinking, "Why aren't they exploiting Kanter's dominance on the offensive end?" It seemed like Turkey wanted to use Kanter as a decoy as an inside threat-- and they would pass the ball around the perimeter and take well-guarded 3pt shots which clanked. I don't know the political history of Turkey's basketball program, but it really looked like they were trying to promote Turkish players that would stay with the Turkish team as opposed to admitting their best player plays in the US for the NBA. The quotes by the replacement coach are simply ridiculous, making me think they were "Turkishly Approved" and designed to promote Turkish basketball more than having any value reflecting Kanter's ability.

Having said that, we still have to admit that we're talking about how well (or poorly) Kanter played against non-NBA talent. In last year's short NBA season, I don't remember him ever really dominating anyone (which is understandable). IMO, Kanter already has better all-around offensive skills than Bynum. Kanter has a better mid-range shot than Bynum (or D. Howard). And, I think Bynum really is one of the best Centers in the NBA. Kanter needs to get Mark Eaton-like in his defense (or, Bynum-like) to really put the Jazz into serious contention. Offensively, I don't see Kanter being as effective as Dwight Howard at the rim But, these days, we need him to try-- at least get the opponents' bigs in foul trouble. IMO, Kanter is currently our only legitimate BIG. Big Al, defensively, isn't that big-- and offensively we use him more like a PF than a Center.

I'm not saying we should rely on Kanter as the answer to all our problems. But, barring more trades, we need him to be the answer to some of our problems.

Yea good point, really was tough to watch wasnt it! I saw the exact same things.

With Kanter, as much as I promoted him last year, it was evident every game that he desperately needed the typical NBA rookie transition with training camps, big man camps etc after not being able to play at Kentucky that year. Kinda like the number 2 pick Derrick Williams, rookies last year were just thrown into the fire; Dwill2 was a bit of a letdown for the Twolves. Dwill2 though at least played at Arizona for a year or two. Kanter was more like a highschool player. Yet he still showed elite rebounding, good position defense, rarely silly fouls. Which in itself, for his being without all that other training, is pretty freaking impressive. In Summer League he showed some new offensive moves, somewhat the way Hakeem would do it. Show the move to the middle of the lane, baby hook like, but then go around the other way up and under the basket. He also still has his original up and under, a solid jumper already, and did show the actual baby hook too. He's improved there already.

I think Kanter this year, can finally be fairly judged, since he will be on a more level playing field like the other players that were able to play in college for a year, or got training/coaching.
And I think he's going to make us very pleased. Cant wait.

Underkanter is a work in progress but NOT a project. He has super-solid base skills and awesome motor for a guy his size and age. I think he is the Jazz sleeper this year. As he figures it out a bit and can take advantage of his size and talent more often he will become a factor in the paint. Seriously wonder sometimes at the average Jazz fan impatience with his "progress" last year. He did fine. All he did was get picked at the 3, in the headlights, and showed nothing but promise and upside in calculated minutes on a playoff team with serious glimpses of a guy who could own the league RB title for many years. As a rookie and one of the youngest players (and least coached rookies) in the league he earned good minutes and showed well. Good things ahead from this kid.